Sunday, 6/15/14, Public Square

4 questions


by | June 15, 2014 · 6:00 am

32 responses to “Sunday, 6/15/14, Public Square

  1. “If you’re going to go in and try to topple Saddam Hussein, you have to go to Baghdad. Once you’ve got Baghdad, it’s not clear what you do with it. It’s not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that’s currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists? How much credibility is that government going to have if it’s set up by the United States military when it’s there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave? ….. but the idea of going into Baghdad, for example, or trying to topple the regime wasn’t anything I was enthusiastic about. I felt there was a real danger here that you would get bogged down in a long drawn-out conflict, that this was a dangerous, difficult part of the world; if you recall we were all worried about the possibility of Iraq coming apart…..Now you can say, well, you should have gone to Baghdad and gotten Saddam. I don’t think so. I think if we had done that we would have been bogged down there for a very long period of time with the real possibility we might not have succeeded……You deploy a force, you win the war, and the problem goes away, and it doesn’t work that way in the Middle East; it never has and isn’t likely to in my lifetime.

    — Dick Cheney, 1991

    • I just heard a retired general state my way of thinking:

      Saddam Hussein was a despicable man -no argument there – but Saddam did keep Iraq under control.

      What George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and their Band of NeoCons did was to go into Iraq – destabilize the entire country and then end up with the chaos we are witnessing today.

      But – I truly believe that GWB and Gang wanted one thing from the Iraq invasion- they wanted that oil.

      But – I also truly believe that the Saudis wanted Saddam Hussein out of the picture – so they got their little puppet – the Little Cowboy with that Big Hat and No Cattle – to invade Iraq on a false premise.

      If this is not even feasible – then why were all but one of the 9/11 hijackers from Saudi Arabia?

      And why did GWB allow the family members of VIP Muslims to fly out of the country when every American citizen was forbidden to fly because all air traffic was grounded?

      There are a lot of unanswered questions about what happened on 9/11 – but has anybody bothered to ask the really hard questions?

      • Actually if you study neocons you find their goal is world dominance. Yes, the oil — control of it — was one step. Our blogging friend, RD, taught me about these things and it was a sad journey of learning. He pointed me to links and info that filled in all the blanks. Most of it’s been taken down unless you know where someone captured it. I don’t know if Rick still has those links or not.

      • NeoCons are a special breed but they sure know how to manipulate and use the current situations to their best advantage – don’t they?

        But then – IMHO – these NeoCons always seem to rely on the Evangelicals to put God’s blessings on their plans…

        And given the black-hearted and corporatism in our mega Evangelical churches today – NeoCons are just a way for these churches to get what they want – more money.

      • Yes! Using the evangelinuts was all part of their plan! Actually, their plan has worked fairly well.

  2. Happy Sunday, Happy Father’s Day! Thank you to all dads including the moms who pull double duty — nurturing children is how we ensure tomorrow’s adults know what being loved, protected and valued feels like.

    • The military industrial complex beast – aka Republicans’ best donors – see nothing wrong with the list above.

      This should frighten every one of us..



    Casey Kasem has passed away. Just reading this article breaks my heart to think of how senseless and rude family members can be when a crisis hits the family.

    I just wonder – why aren’t the Pro Lifers all over these kids of his that seemed to be the ones that went to court to get the right to not feed their father?

    I am very cynical but I’ve seen a lot of this same kind of family crappola play out in nursing homes. It is not a pretty sight and I assume it is all about the money – or past grievances since these kids were from a previous marriage.

    Since I do not know all the facts, I really cannot judge. But I’ve seen so-called ‘loving kids’ do a lot of SHIT to their dying parents – and all in the pretense of being concerned for their well being.

    Or is it they just want to get to the money faster?

    • One other little thing I read showed me just like you that I didn’t really know enough to understand this sad situation. That little thing was that there was a prenup and his wife was better off financially while he was alive than if he wasn’t.

      • I remember an elderly man in the Tennessee (deep in the heart of Bible Belt) nursing home. He was dying of cancer in numerous organs in his body.

        He had not had one single visitor for two years – up until one day a niece and nephew came strolling up into the nursing home demanding to see their beloved Uncle.

        These two were real pieces of work – IMHO. Although they were dressed in designer clothes and presented themselves as the finest in society – inside their hearts there was this black hole that I had never witnessed before these two came in that facility.

        I watched as these two ‘loved ones’ (term used loosely) paced back and forth beside this dying man’s bed and talked about who was going to get his house, car and the money in the bank.

        These two even argued over which one was going to choose the grave digger – because they did not want to ‘spend too much’.

        Every nurse and nurse aide on that floor just wanted to punch these two in their big mouths.

        I went in the room when they were talking about the grave digger and I simply, but forcefully said, ‘you know, this man is dying but he is not deaf’.

        I got written up for that remark – but I wanted to say a whole lot more to those two circling buzzards.

        I even asked – where the hell have these two been for the past two years if they loved their Uncle so much? And, are we sure they ARE his niece and nephew?

        When it comes to money – sometimes your worst enemy is your own family…

        That’s why I plan to spend all money BEFORE I die….LOL

    • indy, a quick infusion of facts for you. Mr. Casem, in 2007, appointed his oldest child his agent under an advanced directive. Note that he had been married to wife number 2 27 years at this point.
      In said advanced directive, executed after he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s (later changed to Lewy’s Body Disease), he specifically authorized the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration under a certain set of conditions. The court hearings earlier last week finally determined these conditions were met, and continuation of nutrition and hydration would cause him more pain and discomfort while not offering any chance for improvement. This met the conditions in the advanced directive.
      The court hearing was made necessary due to the wife prohibiting his children from seeing him, and her further action in moving him from California to Washington and secreting him for 5 weeks or so. During this time, he developed bed sores on top of his other maladies, and there is now an open investigation of the wife alleging Elder Abuse.
      There’s much more. To me, the above are the most relevant facts you might not have seen.

      • Like I said, I do not know all the facts in this particular case – but I do know how mean and downright vicious these family fights can get – especially when there is money involved.

        I guess I am naïve enough to believe that everyone should be able to put aside their own grievances and think of what is best for the dying loved one.

        As for bed sores – the best nursing homes have their share of them happening.

        I guess I am just thinking of this guy’s last few years of life could have been happier ones for him……

      • Sadly, indy, you are naive as set out in your second paragraph due to the conditions set out by you.

        While bed sores happen in all sorts of situations, the allegations are that the infections resulting from the same were ignored.

        The last few years were ones of increasing dementia due to the disease, as I understand it.

      • Bottom line – IMHO – what would the loved one in question choose to do with their own health care options?

        I am a very strong advocate for letting people choose their own course. I’ve seen way too many incidences in our current health care system where this is not done. Too many people are out to make a profit and if they can talk the patient into doing this or that treatment – but the same outcome is death – Have we really prolonged life or simply temporarily put off the impending death?

        That is my bottom line – and I’ve seen too many family members and/or doctors convincing family members to go ahead and pull out all the bells and whistles with no thought to what the patient wants.

        So, I’m glad Kasey Casem had an advanced directive.

        Of course, this is what the ACA provides for – the doctor to counsel patients on what they want done in reference to their advance directive – which is what the Republicans erroneously referred to as ‘death panels’.

        We may have the technology to prolong life – but do we all have to use it?

      • I know, I know – I am a paradox.

        I am so naïve but yet so cynical about things.

      • On this subject I think we’re all a paradox. Making this decision is gut wrenching because it is extremely difficult to actually understand there is nothing more that can be done.

        I’ve never been involved when there was money but it does seem to bring out the worst in too many situations.

      • I had to make it, and it wasn’t easy, although it was the right one. No money here, either!

      • 6176 – I am so sorry if my comments have brought up any painful memories for you. From you last comment, I just remembered that you did go through a traumatic time with your late wife.

        Making that gut wrenching decision is tough. My cousin’s family just had to go through the same thing. It took them two full weeks of hoping for a miracle and then not being able to do one single thing for my cousin except to learn how to ‘let her go’ – and that was the best gift they could have given her – IMHO

        My cousin did not have any advanced directive on record – so she was full coded when she collapsed at work, which is how she landed in hospital on a respirator but brain dead.

        I have my advance directive and my husband is my DPOA of financial and health care decisions. Plus, I’ve told both my kids that I do not want all the tubes and machines. I have told them both – if you do that to me, I promise you I will come back and haunt you every day of your lives.

        My kids believe me…….LOL

      • Good that they believe you. As to the other, I can talk about it much more objectively now that time has passed.

        One suggestion: if you haven’t done so, get successors named in the PoA instruments.

      • Thanks for the advice on PoA.



    So why aren’t these Gun-loving NRA supporters out demonizing this young white male for the senseless killing?

    Can you imagine the outrage if this had been a young black male that did the same thing?

    Take notice – this young man was described as a devoted Mormon who attended church every Sunday.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t Dennis Rader – aka BTK – a devoted and long-time church leader?

    Just because you go to church does not mean you’re not capable of extreme violence..


    What happened at the VA hospitals about too-long waiting times and secret lists hiding the fact that some veterans were not seen in a timely manner and some even died while waiting – this article brings up the issue of the same waiting times for the general population.

    And – depending on your health insurance – it may or may not pay for the doctor and/or their testing even when you are lucky enough to get an appointment.

    My friend had to get her eyes tested to see if any more laser treatment of blood vessels was needed. Always before, the insurance company paid for these dye tests. This most recent testing was denied because it was not a ‘medical diagnosis for a medical procedure’.

    Duh… needs to perform the dye testing to see if the blood vessels are bleeding and if further laser treatment is needed – to save sight in the eye.

    The insurance rep told my friend that she was in luck because the costs not covered by her insurance will be counted towards her deductible and she could pay these costs on her credit card.

    Oh yeah, that magical credit card that everybody has? You mean, that credit card?

    The ACA is better than what we had – but it still does not fix the problem of insurance companies throwing up obstacles for things they do not want to pay for – and can create loopholes for those who do not know how to work their way through the insurance maze.

    • YES — emphatically YES — ACA improves some portions of health insurance. I have also found that insurance companies are very very busy trying to find any and all ways around and through the new regulations. Remember, they are FOR PROFIT companies and their stockholders not only expect but demand dividends.

  6. This would be a ‘religion’ I could believe in!

    Jesus, Buddha and Krishna symbolizing three of the world’s major religions (Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism) walking together in peace.

  7. fnord posted: “I’ve never been involved when there was money but it does seem to bring out the worst in too many situations”

    Money complicates a lot of things in this world – doesn’t it?

    I wish more people would realize that money is just a tool during this lifetime that can be used to achieve or give happiness.

    Money – itself – is not the happiness.