Sunday, 8/25/13, Public Square

hillary clinton


by | August 25, 2013 · 6:00 am

34 responses to “Sunday, 8/25/13, Public Square

  1. Former SoS Clinton is most correct. Of course, this makes her Public Enemy Number 2 on the Tea Partiers list, and will subject her to tremendous negative ads should she decide to run for President in 2016 (which, imho, she should not as it seems her day has come and gone). There are many who will react negatively to her regardless.

    As a parting note, anyone who expects her to be anything but a “centrist” President should she run and be elected should prepare to be disappointed. There is nothing in her public background which suggests otherwise.

    • Yes, she is centrist and that is very refreshing after one peeks at the craziness of the republicans. She is a bit too hawkish for my squeamish pacifist liking. Beyond that, she is exactly the kind of politician who I admire, respect and want to represent me. She is very intelligent and has great critical thinking skills, maturity and experience that I trust will help her make informed decisions whether they are popular or not.

      I’m not convinced she will run for elected office again. It is instructive to watch the republicans who think she will. At one point I would have said it was entertaining but after seeing the depth of lunacy the tea partiers stoop to it isn’t entertaining at all. I can’t laugh at that kind of threat.

      • You are correct about the depth of the lunacy “out there”. I agree with your comments about her intelligence, maturity, etc., which makes her (imho) not electable in the present climate.

        Most unfortunate, and I’ve been wrong many times before. I just cannot see it today.

      • I think we’ll see that depth of lunacy no matter which person the Democrats nominate. We made the mistake once before in thinking Hillary would set ’em off more than Obama.

        I see how well that worked out….

      • None the less, 617, you may be correct that her time has come and gone. This time eight years ago Clinton supporters were measuring the drapes in the White House. Her win seemed almost inevitable, and seemingly out of nowhere, Obama came out of the pack and cleaned her clock.

        It’s mighty early to be calling or even handicapping the horse race. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that the repukes will get crazier, not less crazy, as 2016 draws nearer. Maybe the 2014 midterm elections will be a wake up call for one or both of the parties. I think Democrats need to concentrate on holding the Senate, which is not at all a certainty, and making sure they gain ground, not lose it, in the House. That is also going to be very difficult.

        And if Democrats don’t get their stuff together at the state level and take back some governorships and state legislative bodies, the madness will continue. Even some states that went for Obama in presidential years have red governors and legislatures. Democrats have to stop sucking all the air and resources out of the states to further their national election agendas. We’ve seen the damage that these wingnut state governments can do.

      • I was wrong even tho you pointed out the truth way back before the 2008 Democratic nominee was Obama, Pond. Republicans will be lunatics and drag out anything and everything — including outrageous lies and exaggerations in their attempt to win. Hillary would be no bigger target or motivation than another person without the little “R” beside their name. The tea partiers are the most dangerous terrorist organization America has ever faced and they’re funded by the Koch Brothers and other wealthy Plutocrats who know exactly how to keep them riled up.

      • After all, these are the people the Koch Brothers need to corral and control — kinda like fishing in a bucket.

      • Fnord, voting is a very personal thing and people should always vote their conscience. I don’t hold any grudges anymore about which Democratic candidate anyone supported. Hell, Zippy was sort of an Edward supporter and imagine how that would have turned out!

        I just hope this time the Democrats can pull off not only a Presidential hat trick, but keep the senate and regain the house and make headway at the state level. I’m kind of like Indy’s son. I didn’t vote for almost ten years, but I sure as hell did last time and will in the future.

        I see the error of my ways, too! 😉

  2. There’s an interesting chart at the link.

    Republicans want their party to change, by becoming more conservative

    • Krazee Klowns in the Kar are the ones driving the GOP over the cliff.

      Hell…..let them double down on crazy.

      These folks doubled on crazy in 2008 – when McCain and Palin lost big.

      Then these folks won in 2010 – so they tripled down on crazy in these state legislatures controlled by GOP.

      Then in 2012 – these folks quadrupled down on crazy when they actually tried to say Romney had won the election. Hell – even Karl Rove looked like a pure idiot on Fox News on election night – remember?

      So… my calculations ….these folks have already been increasing heir craziness…….which is why their party is losing support among the moderates and independents.

      Ah, but just wait until the next white male Republican gets in the White House (and that will happen some time – IMHO)

      Then all will be well with the world . Every Tea Party fool will have their government welfare check written with gold ink and their unicorn will be in the driveway waiting to take them to get their government-subsidized health care.

  3. This is another good read.

    Here’s Why America Stopped Caring About The Public Good

    Read more:

  4. 80 Seconds Of ‘Political’ Humor So Baaaaad It’s Not Even Funny – Okay, It’s A Little Funny

  5. This op-ed speaks to our troubled times, and says quite a bit —

    I Have a Character Issue

  6. fnord – my son (who hates politics) asked me if I heard about that poll taken in Louisiana about the blame for Katrina.

    My son – who hates politics and will tell you that he feels his vote does not matter – stated yesterday that if this is how stupid the Republicans truly are….then he needs to start voting again.

    I think this is a time to get all those folks (like my son) who have been turned off by politics in the past to get the message across that IF they do not vote – the possibility of these Republicans winning the next election is more likely.

    And who wants to be controlled by the Party of Stupid?

    Remember – Bobby Jindal of Louisiana (what a coincidence?) – publicly stated that the GOP has become the party of Stupid.

    Wow…… about he irony in that mental picture?

    • I’ve always thought it’s a great idea to have a camera and a microphone aimed at each republican candidate. They almost always do a great job of defeating themselves. The only people who actually vote for those idiots are republicans and thank goodness their small numbers are concentrated in red states that don’t have a chance of totaling enough electoral votes to win at the national level. It’s why they’re working so hard to keep people from voting! They sure aren’t doing anything to attract anyone outside their rabid base as voters for their republican candidates!

      Remember these inconvenient facts when you hear all about the crazies taking back the White House:

      The GOP’s biggest problem is that Democrats start with 246 electoral votes

      As Republicans gear up to “take back the White House” conservatives need to be aware of one startling fact: in 2012 if Romney had won the three swing states of Ohio, Florida, and Virginia, he still would have lost the election.

      Let me repeat, if only for the shock value: 246 votes out of 270 is 91 percent. That means the Democrat candidate needs to win only 24 more votes out of the remaining 292. (There are a total of 538 electoral votes.)

  7. It’s about damn time……

    I work for a pharmacy and we have been fed many, many catered lunches by these drug reps.

    My question is why? Why are the pharmacy employees being fed a free lunch just for inputting what the doctors prescribe?

    So……imagine if pharmacy employees get a free lunch – what do these doctors get because they are the ones on the front line actually writing scripts for these drugs?

    It makes you think….doesn’t it?

    BTW – does anyone else remember the days when any advertisement on television or radio by doctors, dentists and drug companies was banned?

    Do you think there is a correlation between the huge increase in people using certain advertised drugs and those ads?

    But…..Republicans don’t care about that…do they? They’re too busy ranting about the black man in the White House ruining health care.

  8. Exploring Saline’s Secret Costs

    It is one of the most common components of emergency medicine: an intravenous bag of sterile saltwater.

    Luckily for anyone who has ever needed an IV bag to replenish lost fluids or to receive medication, it is also one of the least expensive. The average manufacturer’s price, according to government data, has fluctuated in recent years from 44 cents to $1.

    Yet there is nothing either cheap or simple about its ultimate cost, as I learned when I tried to trace the commercial path of IV bags from the factory to the veins of more than 100 patients struck by a May 2012 outbreak of food poisoning in upstate New York.

    Some of the patients’ bills would later include markups of 100 to 200 times the manufacturer’s price, not counting separate charges for “IV administration.” And on other bills, a bundled charge for “IV therapy” was almost 1,000 times the official cost of the solution.

    It is no secret that medical care in the United States is overpriced. But as the tale of the humble IV bag shows all too clearly, it is secrecy that helps keep prices high: hidden in the underbrush of transactions among multiple buyers and sellers, and in the hieroglyphics of hospital bills.

    At every step from manufacturer to patient, there are confidential deals among the major players, including drug companies, purchasing organizations and distributors, and insurers. These deals so obscure prices and profits that even participants cannot say what the simplest component of care actually costs, let alone what it should cost.


  9. Reproductive health means you make responsible choices so you won’t need an abortion.

    • There are many who don’t believe in birth control, or at least certain methods of birth control. There are also many who would like to impose those beliefs on all women by making certain forms of birth control illegal. Moving right along from that fact — short of abstinence, which to most adults would indicate (or maybe cause) a lack of mental health, there are no 100% effective birth control measures. Plus, a healthy woman can become unhealthy during a nine month period of time and her life can be threatened by continuing a pregnancy. I could go onandon. You and I have both heard both sides if we’ve been listening. And we’ve chosen our opinion on the subject of abortion, birth control, and all other intricacies of reproductive health. I simply don’t do exercises in futility, thus I would never attempt to change another adults opinion. I trust they’ve made the choice and respect their right to do just that.

      Women have the right to make their own personal choices and decisions. Abortion is a legal procedure, and any woman has the right to include that legal procedure in the choices she makes about her reproductive health.

    • I’ll make one more observation. I have no idea if Ray Plenty is male or female. If you are male, was it your “responsible choices” that kept you from needing an abortion? [eye roll]

      • I am a male, and if I make a bad choice I am forced to pay child support for the next 18 years. I don’t get an easy out like abortion. That is why I not only use birth control but also make certain my partner has potential before I even have sex with her. I would hope if my percautions doesn’t work, and she does get pregnant, and she doesn’t want the child, that she would wait a few months to give birth and give me parental rights….. I know people claim to be “pro choice”, but the only real choice is before you even get pregnant. 95% of the time a woman makes that choice. She chooses the partner. When to have sex. The birth control. She can always choose to say no. Why should she be able to magically make that bad choice go away with abortion? A man can’t…. I condone abortion as a mercy killing in the first several months. A woman who is willing to kill her own child obviously has ZERO motherly instincts. Better put that child to death before its monstrous mother does by lack of care.

      • WTF? Anyone who thinks paying child support is equal to carrying a fetus for nine months and then being at least partially financially supportive and providing care for a child to eighteen and beyond is living in someplace other than reality.

        Sounds like someone made a bad choice at one time and then pissed, moaned and sighed about having to provide a PORTION of the financial support for their child.

        No court ordered child support I ever heard of provided 100% of the financial support needed to raise a child to adulthood. And, BTW, financial child support does nothing to emotionally support that child or support them in any way other than a partial financial boost.

        Good for you, though, to make sure your partner is using birth control. Better yet, maybe you should have a vasectomy or provide your own condoms. If you were 100% responsible for your own little swimmers, you wouldn’t have to worry about the woman is using birth control.

        Responsible choices for yourself, remember? Maybe you should consider choosing the only birth control for yourself that is 100% effective and responsible.

        You have heard of abstinence, right? If YOU practice it, you will have NO child support to pay. And your partner will never have to worry about having an abortion. Problem solved with YOUR personal responsibility.

      • This is no less than about the subjugation of women, plain and simple. I can change my face, donate a kidney, get implants, alter my entire appearance or have fat sucked out of me. I can even change my sexual orientation. I can have any objectionable object growing inside my body removed as long as it’s NOT in my uterus. I can have any damn surgery I want and can pay for … but god forbid if some cells grew in my uterus. Inexplicably I’m suddenly supposed to have no choice about that. How ludicrous. Every sperm does not deserve a name.

  10. I’m all for “responsible choices” as long as men are held to the same standard as women. Too often, someone is pressured into making a choice in the heat of the moment, and then only one party is left with the responsibility. Young males, and, hell, older ones too, need to take responsibility for choices just like women.

    And as regards Planned Parenthood, a favorite target of Wingnuttia, they do so much more than abortion referral. They provide the birth control and related counseling that make “responsible choices” possible. They provide a host of other service regarding women’s reproductive health, including breast cancer screening, HRT counseling and referral, and well, the list could go on.

    That’s why the Susan G. Komen people ran into such a buzz saw. Planned Parenthood is for BOTH members of the couple. And a very “responsible choice” includes men visiting PP with their female partners to weigh all birth control options. And… other options when needed. Or wanted.

    Choice. Repukes are all for it regarding economics. But personal choice? Not so much.

  11. When cultural rules finally acknowledge it’s not always the woman’s ‘fault’ we’ll have a better society where all people accept the responsibility of being sexual humans. I don’t expect that to happen any time soon. Just over a hundred years ago a woman could not own property in the US, she was the property of her father until she became the property of her husband. If she got a divorce she couldn’t have custody of her kids. Even in our generation a divorced woman was considered a pariah. It’s high time women controlled their own destinies and made their own decisions.

  12. From the eyes of one who worked in the foster care system:

    “I have had more than one Mom tell me she wanted to have an abortion, but got scared away from the clinic, or found it too difficult to obtain one. They were ill equipped to raise a child and knew it before the baby was born. As a result, the profound abuse, debilitating neglect, and all too common sexual abuse wound up damaging forever the child they never wanted in the first place. But society ignores those families because they are ugly …. and hard to look at.

    But I saw them. I saw them 5 days a week. I saw the damage done to their bodies after a beating. I saw the damage done to their minds as they never learned how to trust or set good boundaries. I saw the sexuality of children develop too soon because of inappropriate touch from an adult. I saw children without feelings or concern for others because they never received that from their own families.

    What I NEVER saw, was a pro-lifer rally the foster care system or the family courts for better care for those children. I never saw anti-abortionists line up to care for these unwanted children. Sure, there were people willing to adopt and foster these children, but they were few and far between. Many of them overwhelmed by the challenges of raising these children, and usually gave up fostering after just a couple of years.

    If the anti-abortionists spent one tenth of the amount of time and money they spend on pro-life rallies and sunk it into offering services for single moms, counseling, parenting classes, clothing, tutors, or even babysitting, then the unwanted children of the world could actually have a better chance of making it.”

    • I know of several pro life supporters who have gone to foreign countries and bought (oh, excuse me, ‘adopted) a child – rather than to adopt one of our own American children who desperately needs a home.

  13. only real choice is before you even get pregnant. 95% of the time a woman makes that choice. She chooses the partner. When to have sex.


    Excuse me….but not every woman gets to choose the partner or when to have sex.

    YOU know Ray Plenty – the man can always make the choice to keep it zipped up where it can do no harm….

    Why wasn’t that on your list of ‘choices’?