Tuesday, 3/26/13, Public Square

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LGBT rights


Filed under The Public Square

42 responses to “Tuesday, 3/26/13, Public Square

  1. Thanks for the header, Fnord. I’ll be back later to address it, but I wanted to post about this first. Chili’s Restaurant is a Brinker owned brand, and Brinker is one of the bad, conservative guys in the corporate world who have opposed the health care law, etc. And Nancy Brinker, one of the bad girls at Planned Parenthood who got ousted last year, is Norman Brinker’s wife or ex-wife or something. For liberals, the Brinker brand and their restaurants are bad news.

    So…here’s a reminder that it’s a good thing to remember that just because a corporation or brand is a bad actor, there are still good people who work there and deserve our loyalty, our compassion, and our praise. Here is just one example. I wish Pmom was still here to read this. Almost made me cry first thing in the morning. A good reminder that people can be so kind no matter how bad their employer.


  2. Yes, today and tomorrow are big days for us queers in SCOTUS land. Prop Hate arguments today and DOMA arguments tomorrow. I am more afraid than excited. I don’t want to get my hopes up because that’s happened waaaaay too many times before only to see them dashed in the end. And the decisions won’t come out until June. But, it will be interesting to hear arguments, read commentary about the arguments, and speculate on who won and how the court will rule.

    I fear a narrow ruling on Prop Hate that only applies to that specific law in that specific state, or that the court will punt and say that the people who brought the suit had no standing and they will send it back to the lower court where we won. Good that the punt ruling or a narrow ruling only on Prop Hate will free gays in California. Bad that it will not help those of us incarcerated in Brownbackistan or any other republican theocracy.

    I still say no matter how SCOTUS rules, for gay marriage to be legal in Kansas will require Obama to send in Federal troops like Eisenhower sent them to Little Rock to desegregate the schools. Hell, the sodomy laws were struck down by Lawrence v Texas a decade ago and Kansas refuses to repeal it’s sodomy law. It’s not enforced, but it is still on the books and it is nothing but mean and spiteful that Pastor Sam’s “Office of the Repealer” will not repeal a law that has already been struck down by SCOTUS. That’s the battle queers in Kansas face in this land of the christian taliban.

    As for DOMA, I think it’s toast. I think there is no way the court can legally rule to keep DOMA in place. Once again, that doesn’t help us in Brownbackistan because it just means that where states allow same sex marriage, the feds have to recognize it. See above “Hell freezes over, federal troops arrive in Topeka” comment about when Kansas will ever recognize gay marriage.

    We could get married in other states, but when we come back home, our marriages would not be recognized by Kansas, only the feds.

    And.. no matter how SCOTUS rules, unless it is unusually broad and precedent setting, like Roe v Wade, it will still be legal in most states to fire someone just because they are gay, or deny them housing, or refuse service to them.

    Even if a great a broad ruling is issued, one that is Roe v Wade in broadness, there will then be the inevitable backlash. And sometimes, that is worse than the original bad law. Look at Roe v Wade. Many have been murdered or assassinated in the backlash and 40 years later, states like Kansas, Mississippi and North Dakota are still trying to find a way to reverse SCOTUS.

    As the Kinks would say, “It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola.” And Kansas is not Lola.

    • Even a broad ruling like Roe v Wade means nothing to the theology idiots. Look at the unconstitutional laws passed by red states recently — thumbing their noses, breaking the law of the land and calling it constitutional on the basis of state’s rights. The Rand Pauls of the world have done much damage and those that follow them blindly have no clue.

      Here’ an interesting article about how the states are getting things done —
      States Gone Wild

      (from the link): “…begins with the evidence that most Americans are simply not engaged in local politics, except perhaps on pocketbook issues. In the absence of public attention, motivated, well-financed and sometimes extreme elites have captured the lawmaking process in many state capitals. Legislatures are vulnerable to (and often populated by) the most ardent believers in a cause, the ones who care enough to take the time, raise the money, turn out on Election Day and lobby relentlessly.

      “People who participate in state and local government tend not to be representative of the masses at all,” Abrams told me. “They tend to be highly engaged political elites — 15 percent of the population who think they’re fighting this culture war. They’ll see an opening. They’ll see a judge, they’ll see a legislature that looks amenable to something, and they’ll try to push it through and build a groundswell around that.”


      So in Arkansas the amendment outlawing abortion at 12 weeks was not the product of a popular groundswell, but largely the triumph of a single, entrepreneurial Tea Party state senator, who whisked the measure through a newly Republican, mostly inexperienced Legislature with virtually no debate.”

    • “Christian Taliban” How true, there are two ways of getting people to worship as you do. One is to be able to convince them and/or show them that yours is the one and true way. The other is to force them through threat and/ or torture to get them to lie in agreement with what you believe.

      • One trip going east down that North 21st Street is a blatantly obvious picture of what the Christian Taliban looks like – just a bunch of tax-free country clubs – just pick your flavor.

        But the dirty little secret is – when left to their own vices – even the Christian Taliban has their own warring factions .

        Hell – the Baptist faith alone has a daily war taking place every day within their own group.

      • They’re promised all their rewards posthumously. When you die…

        Of course, those who can’t see the wisdom in separation of church and state are positive Christianity is a superior religion and therefore a state based around this superior religion would also be a superior state. I’m pretty sure they’d argue until the day is done that a Theocracy based on Christianity is good and has absolutely NOTHING to do with those people in the Middle East. In fact, they don’t even use the word ‘theocracy’ or admit that making the U. S. Constitution more closely resemble the Bible would change our form of government. [eye roll]

  3. I hope we hear from Zippy and 617 on this subject today and the rest of the week.

  4. I know this is not even a possible resolution – but wouldn’t it be nice if these Evangelicons that hate everyone that does not look like them, talk like them, worship the same God in the exact same as them would take a page out of the Puritan’s Pilgrim Handbook and get on a very large ship and sail away to some other foreign shores?

    Hopefully, these fools will land on some shores where the natives are not as nice and accommodating as the Native Indians were back in the Pilgrim days. I’ve often wondered if the Native Indians regret not enforcing illegal immigration back in those days.

    Or – we could just make all these Jesus-Cons move down south (where all the Leech Red States are located) and then the rest of us could build that big huge fence – and then we keep armed guards in towers every 100 ft – since these Jesus-Cons are such believers in guns…

    Hey – I know this is not even possible – but isn’t it a nice dream?

    On a serious note – if these Jesus-Cons don’t like it here – then they are free to leave at anytime. And I don’t see one of their lily white butts getting on plane or ship – do you?

    • Of course, in leaving this country, these folks would be leaving behind their ability to separate tax-free money from the sheeple……


  5. Republicans are, once again, on the wrong side of history. They have a few loyal sheep who don’t bother to investigate facts and easily swallow whatever is fed them.

    It’s actually insane to decimate social programs to ensure the rich don’t pay taxes, but republicans pull this off with the uninformed. They hide their bigotry behind righteousness and justify it with religion. I’ll never understand how those who should be most willing to have empathy for the those in need end up doing the bidding of the rich. Maybe it’s because they’re so used to following dogma on faith? Maybe it’s nothing more than it’s difficult to accept the truth when the lies are exactly what you wanted to hear?

    I do know for sure that a political party can’t alienate every minority group in the country — blacks, Latinos, Asian-Americans, gays — not to mention the majority group: women — and have any hope of winning a national election.

    • I was told by my ex-friend – the devoted Catholic – that the problem lies with me – I do not understand the Catholic faith.

      Yeah – that MUST be why I still do not understand how self-professing morally superior people can sit back and allow their Church leaders to pay out millions in lawsuits for covering up the crimes of child molestation – and yet not one single Church leader lost their job – or were even kicked out of the Church – for their covering up those crimes.

      But -hey – let a woman ask for access to birth control and all HELL breaks loose….

      Yeah – I see now where the problem must be with ME not understanding the Catholic faith.

      • wicked

        You had your Baptists, I had my Catholics. I escaped that dogma when I was 14/15. Believe me, indy, I question it as much as you do. The thing is, it’s crumbling beneath their feet and has been for more than 40 years. We simply hear more about it now.

      • I hope it’s crumbling beneath their feet – but the Catholics have gone on to more prosperous endeavors.

        Take a good look around this city – and see how many hospitals and doctors clinics are owned and/or partly owned by the Catholics.

        As my grandpa used to say when he was referring to monopolies – you cannot spit without hitting one of the bastards.

  6. Comparing the LBGT struggle to that of African/ Americans, it still is a continuing struggle. And like race relations it too will come with passage of time and hopefully not with another Civil war. “Those that forget the pass are doom to repeat it!” seems to be a saying that covers so many things lately huh? And seemingly the only damn saying I know…

    • A look back at this country will show a picture of discrimination:

      women had to fight for their rights.

      Blacks and the Civil Rights Movement

      Now the LGBT are still fighting for their rights

      Hell – there are CONservative Republicans who believe that all the Founding Fathers were Christians….

      Hell – Sarah Palin even talked about Paul Revere warning the British that we were armed and that was what his ride was all about that night.

      And what did all the Sheeple do when she did that? They baaa…baalieved her and even tried to change the online sources to fit her version.

      This is what we are dealing with – there is a culture war going on in our country.’

      And the culture of the Christian Talibanevangelicals is what I fear the most.

      These folks are nothing more than the money vendors in the Temple the Bible speaks of ….and they need to be cleared away before the Temple can be clean.

      • “And the culture of the Christian Talibanevangelicals is what I fear the most.”
        Reminds me of what Chris Rock said regarding the murder of Matthew Shepard, the assassination of Dr. George Tiller, and the dragging death of James Byrd.

        “I aint afraid of Al Quaida. I’m afraid of Al Cracker.”

  7. Kansas is in a three-way tie for the third-least-educated state legislature in the nation!

    Many State Legislators Lack College Degrees

  8. The old thread getting hits today is titled, “Why do smart people believe dumb things?”


  9. I got a message from a Canadian friend this morning that said “You Americans are so silly, we don’t call it gay marriage we just call it marriage.” Here’s hoping that us silly Americans are about to evolve finally!

    • What is the difference between Canadians and Americans?

      I’ve been to Canada once in my lifetime. But, seriously, I would like to know – why are Canadians so much more advanced than we are?

      Do Canadians have this view that they are so ‘exceptional’ and that God has chosen them to be the leader of the world?

      Because – that is what I sense is the difference between our two countries.

      While America likes to pride itself on how Christian we are and how God has chosen us to bless…….we really don’t live the way Jesus taught in his many lessons.

      We are H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-S……

      is that the difference?

  10. Well, now we can all just stop this fighting about gay marriage right because Jeb Bush has spoken…..(big eye roll)

    Excuse me, but is heterosexual marriage a state’s issue? And if it was – then why was DOMA put into place?

    CONservatives just don’t get it …..this is an equal rights issue – and equal rights should be a federal issue – just like Civil Rights was finally decided in 1964.

    But – hey – that took a long, long battle also – didn’t it?


    • I’ll make a deal with these Christian Talibangelists – when these folks can keep their marriage vows and stop all this running around like feral cats in heat……and stop this supporting robed-men claiming to be God’s leaders in their covering up child molesters – THEN we might just listen to what these same fools have to say about how gay marriage is such a sin.

      I keep coming back to this one thing….

      The Ten Commandments are the only thing in the Bible that is said to be have been written by God’s own hand.

      Where is the Commandment about -Thou Shalt Not be Homosexual?

      I see the Commandment about – Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery.

      If homosexuality is such a big sin – then wouldn’t God have put it on his Top Ten List?

      BTW – adultery can also occur in gay marriages – so maybe God was not so concerned about who married who but rather – once committed to the marriage, do you treat that marriage with dignity and respect?

      Hmmm….Jesus was all about dignity and respect – wasn’t he?

  11. I’ve been watching the coverage at the Supreme Court today – and the crowds are quite telling. Both sides have their protest signs.

    Which reminded me of something – I’ve told you many times about that Fundy Baptist College I graduated from in 1975.

    There was this guy on campus – he was well known – and for good reason.

    This guy was one of those types that always changed his major so he NEVER actually graduated from any one course – he was a perpetual ‘college student’ .

    Anyway – this guy gave me the heebie jeebies every time I saw him. Of course, I was told the stories about him and he was described as ‘special’ .

    Of course, this is also the guy that would get up in chapel and testify as to how he did not know where his tuition money was going to come from that term but he just knew that God was going to provide.

    And – then – wouldn’t you know it – God must have used the US Postal Service to send that guy a check in his campus mailbox.

    PRAISE the LORD….

    Years later, I was watching the television news and there was coverage of some anti-abortion protesters on the steps of the SCOTUS.

    I looked at the television set and started laughing out loud. Both my kids came running into the room and thought surely Mom has gone over the edge this time…….and my husband did not have a clue as to what was so damn funny.

    There he was on television – that same ‘special’ guy from my Fundy Baptist College campus – on the steps of the SCOTUS with a doll baby hung around his neck and some protest sign how abortion was killing babies.

    I just wondered……..was this ‘special’ guy still on that college campus and was he still getting those mysterious checks from God in his mailbox?

    Sad to say……this is the world these Fundies live in……and they truly believe they are ‘special’ and that God loves them best…..

    How can one reason or debate with logic like that?

    • I have a suspicion if that ‘special’ guy is still alive – he is somewhere on those steps of the SCOTUS today – holding up his protest sign. I’m sure he is convinced that he fighting the good fight for traditional marriage.

      You know – the kind of marriage the Bible talks about….

      Oh, wait a minute, a lot of those Bible guys had multiple wives……didn’t they?

      Some even slept with their brothers’ wives or their cousins or who knows who…

  12. Ah talk about an oxymoron, On PBS there is a spokesman for a group called:
    Alliance for Defending Freedom”. And what is he speaking of? He is against rights for Gays!

  13. I guess I must be naïve, stupid, slow or I just believe in freedom for all – because I just do NOT understand why certain people are so obsessed with their fellow Americans’ sex lives.

    Quite frankly – I would not know whose marriage was gay or heterosexual unless I knew the couple.

    Tell me something……can anyone know while driving through a neighborhood which house was inhabited by heterosexuals and those inhabited by homosexuals?

    Is there some certain mysterious sign……like that purple bag that one Teletubbie carried over his shoulder in which Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson? I don’t know which twerp came out with that one.) that was CONVINCED the PBS was showing a kids’ show with a gay agenda.