Wednesday, 11/28/12, Public Square



Filed under The Public Square

29 responses to “Wednesday, 11/28/12, Public Square

  1. From many right-wing sources I’m hearing there is no problem with republican policies or candidates. Nope! It’s a marketing problem. Uh huh. As soon as they teach their candidates a better way to speak about and promote their policies everyone will happily vote for them!

  2. indypendent

    Do you think this will change the perception of the GOP as just the party of old white men?

    BTW – the excuse that seniority was used, but also note that Paul Ryan was given an exception for his power seat on the Budget Committee. I guess it is because Paul is so great at arithmetic?

    Please, just pass the barf bag now…

    • It’s who republicans are all about — white men.

      [sarcasm on]

      As soon as they change their messaging we won’t notice. We’ll think the republican policies are what’s best for the poor, women, minorities, for all Americans.

      [sarcasm off]

    • R. D. Liebst

      LOL they are at a loss as to why peeing on the peoples legs and telling them it is raining is not working so good? There are still afew that somehow see that their end goals are to be the next Trump. So they see any attack on the wealthy as an attack on their future dreams. BUT do not see the double edged sword that by doing so hits them every year in their income taxes.

  3. indypendent

    When the announcement of any possible winner(s) of the large lottery jackpot tonight -think about this article.

    I’ve said this before – people who are the happiest, tend to be those who are content in life – IMHO.

    My grandfather was a perfect example of this. He was never a rich man with lots of money in the bank. But he was content with what he had to work for – AND – he was willing to help others who needed it.

    That’s the key to a happy life – IMHO.

    • I bet your grandfather was very aware of how rich he was in all that can’t be bought.

      • indypendent

        I remember my grandparents when it was the day to pay their bills.

        My grandfather did not believe in banks – as alot of folks in his generation due to the Stock Crash and Depression.

        My grandfather would get Grandma and they would drive around the town to pay their bills – in cash.

        As a treat, if I was lucky enough to be with them on that day, Grandpa took us to the old hot dog stand – I don’t know if it was the old A&W or what – but that type of place.

        We would get a chili dog and a child-size mug of ice-cold root beer. And we had such fun.

        Does anyone else remember those little mugs?

        People enjoyed the simple things in life – just a day out with their grandkids and those chili dogs and that root beer.

        Memories like that are the true riches in any person’s life. – IMHO

      • I believe in banks for up to the $250,000 guaranteed by the FDIC (and, under a President Romney, don’t doubt for a moment that New Deal idea would have eventually been on the chopping block).

        But people should use small banks, or even better, credit unions.

      • prairie pond

        Indy, I so remember those A & W child size frozen mugs of root beer, and mine was always accompanied by a child size hamburger with mustard, ketchup, pickles and onions. Mom and Dad had big sized everything, all sitting on the tray that hung off the driver side window. It was our Saturday night ritual. All the farmers came to town to sell their eggs and cream and then do their weekly shopping. They came on Saturday nights when the weather was warm, and stayed to visit, either in the pool hall for men, or the cars parked on Main for the women. And the kids played on the sidewalk so their mothers could keep track of them. Sometime during the evening, we kids would go inside the pool hall, get a dime from our dad’s, and get an ice cold “pop” from the machine that had ice in the bottom and you ran your bottle down the rails and pulled it out, dripping wet, to be savored back outside on the sidewalk.

        In the winter, the farmers all came to town to shop on Saturday afternoon so they could be home by dark to feed the cattle. When we got home, Mom would fry burgers and we’d have them with a bottle of Pepsi and some chips. A real treat back then. And with tummies full, we’d settle down to watch Gunsmoke and in later years, Mannix. I kinda hated Saturday nights because I knew the next day I’d have to get all dressed up and go to Sunday School and church. Something I hated even as a child. I guess since I’m all grown up, nothing much has changed.

        Damn, my childhood was simple. Probably explains why I’m so simple minded now!

      • indypendent

        My grandfather died in 1971 – so paying your bills in cash was alot more common and more simple in those days.

        Can you imagine doing that in today’s world?

        I stay away from these large global banks – as much as possible. Our mortgage is with Wells Fargo – and that was because our local-owned bank sold it right after the papers were signed – which is normal procedure, I understand.

        Anyway – I’ve never had any problems with Wells Fargo. In fact, they’ve been actually quite good with me. But we pay the mortgage online – and I am consistently going online to watch our account. I do not do any banking with them – except to just pay the mortgage payment, which is written on our local-owned bank.

        So far – so good.

      • Clear minded, yes; simple minded, never.

        I think it’s possible fewer children grow up as carefree. Do you think that is a contributor to some of the differences between then and today?

      • indypendent

        In today’s world – it takes two incomes to pay all lthe bills. So, where does that leave the kids? I think kids in today’s society have to grow up faster than we did in the 50’s.

        But, I also know there are more dangers or sexual predators nowadays.

        Or was that always a problem and we just did not hear about it unless it made national news?

        I would not dream of letting my kids (when they were younger) or my grandkids loose to go play outside or in the park down the street without me with me. It’s just not safe anymore.

        We used to ride our bikes – how many kids do you see riding their bikes by themselves?

        Our world may have alot more of those huge mega churches – but we also have alot more B.S. nonsense going on…….is there a correlation?

        Are these churches too busy being corporate businesses and not enough time devoted to what they profess to be about – spreading the love of their God to those folks who truly need help?

        When money and power is worshipped – is that really the best for our society?

  4. prairie pond

    Just once, maybe, when Democrats win, they could, ya know, act like they won? I think the damn Democrats and Obama are STILL afraid of the republicans. WTF?

    What’s a middle class voter got to do to get the attention of the Democrats? Hello?

    • The page isn’t pulling up (I think they must be getting a lot of hits), but the title tells the story.

      And we need to tell Washington the REAL story. ENOUGH!

      It’s not even about being Democrats. It’s about being in touch with reality.

      • prairie pond

        Agreed, Zippy. Lift the cap on SS contributions, keep lowering medical costs to reduce Medicare outlays, and allow price competition for drugs paid for with Medicare dollars.

        Is all that so complicated?

        This is just a bone the elites think they can throw to the repukes for a token tax increase that can easily be lowered after the next election. But changes to SS and Medicare will likely be forever.

        Raising taxes on the elites but crippling SS and Medicare is NOT an equivalency. But it is most certainly false.

      • prairie pond

        Democrats and Obama will strike their “grand” bargain at their own political peril. We’ll see if they remember their mandate to protect the middle class, or if BOTH sides cater to the elites.

        “The proposal to raise taxes on those earning more than $250,000 annually — one of President Obama’s central campaign pitches — continues to be popular among a large majority of Americans, according to the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll out Wednesday.

        Sixty percent of those surveyed support the proposal, compared with just 37 percent who are opposed. The debate over raising taxes on the high-income earners was one of the defining issues of the 2012 campaign, although polls have consistently shown broad support for the proposal backed by Obama and the Democrats.

        Meanwhile, an even larger portion of Americans — 67 percent — are opposed to raising the age for Medicare coverage from 65 to 67. Some Republicans such as Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) have suggested raising the Medicare eligibility age as part of their proposal to avoid the so-called “fiscal cliff.”

        Democrats, Republicans and independents also unite in opposition to hiking the entry age for Medicare, with the opposition particularly stiff among Democrats. Opposition to such a change peaks (naturally) among those aged 50 to 64 — the very people who will soon reap those benefits.”

        Read more:

        Link to ABC News/WaPo Poll:

      • One big reason the “elites” want taxes lowered is to starve government and ensure there is no way for the peons to ever be more than their serfs. Starve government enough to get rid of the chance for social security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare to survive and the masses are kept insecure and dependent on those elites — as they should be in a Plutocracy. The truly elite have more money than simple high tax rates could ever threaten. They want protection from their elite status being threatened.

        I know this is a little over nine minutes long, but it’s a good history and offers a good lesson for today —

      • azzippy

        Fnord — Paul Krugman provides more evidence that the plutocrats are willing to sell out whoever they must to keep their position, including the bottom 90^ of the 1%.

      • Thanks, Zippy. I read the comments too. Doesn’t it make you sick to your stomach to know of such vile greediness?

  5. indypendent

    Prairie Pond – I remember those trays hanging off the window. Man – that was a real treat – huh?

    Your description sounds alot like my childhood growing up – but we were basically around my mother’s family – which is the same Grandpa I talk about so much.

    There were six kids in my mother’s family – and the cousins were running around everywhere.

    We had a family tradition of taking turns hosting a Saturday night card game. The men would play Poker and the women would play Hearts. We always had something to eat like hot dogs, hamburgers, chili, chicken and noodles. (Damn, I’m making myself hungry – LOL)

    Anyway – in the summertime – all of us kids would be outside playing until the sun finally set – and have dessert.

    Those were such good times…..

    But – I remember the day when my Grandpa came out to our house to play cards and my mother told him that she could no longer allow any card games to be played in her house. That was when my mother (in her infinite wisdom) – decided to change churches and go to that big, fancy Fundy Baptist Church in the nearby town. This preacher had just delivered a real fire-and-brimstone sermon on the evils of playing cards.

    Well – when my mother told Grandpa (her dad) that she and her house was going to serve God and that card playing was no longer allowed or tolerated.

    The hurt in my Grandpa’s eyes was there for all the world to see and my mother then make the remark that he should also go to church and be ‘saved’ – so that he will be able to go to Heaven – with her.

    You see, my Grandpa cussed like a sailor, smoked like a fire engine – but he was a good and decent man. He never intentionally hurt anyone – that I know of. And he was actually living what I call the ‘Christian life’ by following the Ten Commandments – and following the footsteps of Jesus by helping his fellow man.

    My Grandpa never went to church – except for weddings and funerals – but my Grandpa always carried that picture of Jesus knocking on the door and a copy of the Lord’s Prayer in his wallet.

    But – the card playing was not about gambling or using the Devil’s tools (as my mother put it) – the card playing was my Grandpa’s way of connecting with the family and keeping the family together. – You know what I mean?

    There are two kinds of people in this world. There are the glue people and then there are the people who need the glue.

    The ‘glue’ people are those who are the ones that keep the family together – the one that make certain that the family knows they are loved, wanted and appreciated – at all costs.

    That was my Grandpa – he was the glue person that kept our extended family intact.

    Since his death – I’ve seen where my mother’s side of the family have drifted apart. Hell, some of them would not even walk across the street to help their own family member now.

    And that is sad.

    So – in my mother’s quest to be the ‘perfect little Christian’ that her charismatic preacher wanted her to be – she deeply hurt my Grandpa’s feelings. And their relationship never was the same after that day.

    But – you want to know the kicker to this story? A few years after my Grandpa’s death – my mother left that fancy church and she is now a regular at the nearby riverboat casino.

    Yes – that woman who thought playing cards was the Devil’s world – now sits in the casino at least 3-4 times a week.

    BTW – did I mention that this charismatic preacher was the same asshole that told me I was marrying the Devil himself? Oh yeah, that guy was a real jerk.

    But – I’ve often wondered – I know the true character of my Grandpa. I also know the true character of that damn asshole preacher. I suspect Grandpa is in a much better place than the asshole preacher has a chance of getting to.

    If there is a real God in this wordl – hopefully the assholes who manipulate the vulnerable and easily swayed folks into hurting other people – get their just due in the end.

    Do you thinkj this is why I am so cynical about organized religion?


    • indypendent

      In remembering my Grandpa – I suddenly thought of how much he liked Tex Ritter. And then I remembered a song that Tex Ritter sang about a deck of cards.

      Hmmm……if you know this song, then you’ll know how even a deck of cards can be made into a religious-themed prayer book.

      Hmm….I wonder if that asshole preacher ever thought of how playing cards is more than just a game of cards?

      Maybe that is what my Grandpa knew…….and the asshole preacher will never know in a million years.

  6. indypendent

    I think Obama may just have learned a hard lesson during his first four years of dealing with the Republicans.

    I suspect this is why Obama is taking his fiscal cliff argument to the American people.

    The people I know are sick and tired of these Republicans and their partisan political point-scoring and blocking everything.

    JUST do their damn jobs – that is what the majority of Americans want.

    It depends on how loud the American People yell in Obama’s face as to whether he will strike that grand bargain.

    But – I don’t know how the other Democrats will go on this deal…

    • I sure hope President Obama takes it to the people and the people demand exactly what he ran on and we voted for!

      In addition to eliminating the tax cuts on incomes above $250,000 (we all know even they still keep any tax cuts that apply to the first $250,000 even if Fox “News” doesn’t), pass Obama’s Jobs Bill!

      Put Americans to work on badly-needed infrastructure improvements! These jobs stay in America, they build what business needs to stay in business, they add people to the tax rolls and every American benefits. If we needed a graphic reminder of how badly we need to improve our infrastructure, Hurricane Sandy gave it to us.

      I heard on NPR just this morning that in The Netherlands the majority of the country’s population lives below sea level, yet they have no worries of losing electrical power because of a big storm, no worries of gas lines rupturing and setting fire to entire neighborhoods — they have modern well-maintained infrastructure.

      Improve our unsafe bridges, a smart grid, green energy… It goes onandon. The other part of Obama’s Jobs Bill is education and training. Get Americans trained for the jobs that already exist! Smart ways to help our country and her citizens! It even helps the powerful corporations!

      Increase tax on the wealthiest, change the rules for those American companies who take jobs and profits overseas, pass Obama’s Jobs Bill and add what PrairiePond said: ” Lift the cap on SS contributions, keep lowering medical costs to reduce Medicare outlays, and allow price competition for drugs paid for with Medicare dollars.” Sounds like a great way to end President Obama’s first term and move FORWARD to his second one!

  7. indypendent

    I’m all for freedom of religion – but I would have to personally wonder about any group with a name that sounds like a Pancake House.

    Seriously – religion can do alot of stuff to a person’s mind.

    But – if this was a one-time story about this particular group – I would think it was just this group.

    But how many stories have we heard with the same theme of power, manipulation and somehow sex is always involved. Humans will always be flawed – but I know alot of non-religious people that don’t do this stuff.

  8. indypendent

    Looks like Johnny B. and his cohorts are determined to go over that fiscal cliff all for their precoius 2% wealthiest?

    Boehner said that half of the 2% are small businesses and that raising taxes on them will hurt the economy.

    Is that really true – half of the top 2% are small businesses making less than $200,000/yr as individual or $250,000/yr as couple

    But – I remember Obama saying once that Donald Trump is classified as a small business – how the hell is that possible?

    • indypendent

      But……is Boehner and his GOP Buddies telling the entire truth?

      The first $200,000 (single) or $250,000 (couple) is still be taxed at the current rate which is less than it was during Clinton’s term. Just the amount over the $200,000 or $250,000 is to be taxed at a higher rate which was the entire tax during the Clinton years.

      So – the Republicans are only telling half the story…..

      Oh, what am I thinking? That is what they do best………they only tell the bad part in order to scare everybody.

      Here;s a revenue increasing idea – tax these corporate churches that choose to enter the political arena. How the hell is that doing God’s work?

    • Absolutely a lie that half of the top 2% are small businesses! The only people who still fall for that are the easily fooled residents of Foxland. We’re wise to the economic gymnastics that allow them to hire accountants and armies of lobbyists that create the loopholes and special breaks that let big corporations off the hook for paying taxes. When a small business does make it big we can’t continue encouraging the republican “I’ve got mine” mindset. What is it with these greedy bastards that allows them to forget they too were once a startup?

    • How Big Is A “Small” Business? Here’s Why It Matters

      (from the link): We’d like to propose the following resolution: Let’s stop pretending that a business with $35 million in revenue could be considered a “small business.” Or that a facility employing 1,500 people could be considered “small.”

      It’s a silly resolution, right? After all, who would ever define small businesses with this kind of metric? Well, just about every survey you’ve ever read, and nearly every stat you’ve ever heard quoted about small businesses, is really talking about businesses defined by crazy parameters like this.