Monday, 10/22/12, Public Square



Filed under The Public Square

56 responses to “Monday, 10/22/12, Public Square

  1. prairie pond

    Congratulations on the new grandson, Fnord. Let us know when there is a name announced. Any plans to visit soon?

    • In a few weeks I’ll visit. Daddy is taking three weeks off and I think it best the family has the time it takes to adapt to the changes. Big brother is not quite 17 months old so they’ll have their hands full.

      His name is William Ellery after one of his Mom’s ancestors. In fact, there is a statue to the ancestor in the Boston Public Gardens —

      I was mostly awake all night and you’d think I would be napping, but the excitement will have to ebb before I feel like sleeping. 🙂

  2. This is the endorsement of President Obama printed in The New Yorker. It’s a good read, and includes where we were as a reminder of how very far we’ve come. It’s good to take a look back and put today in better perspective.


    (from the link): Obama succeeded George W. Bush, a two-term President whose misbegotten legacy, measured in the money it squandered and the misery it inflicted, has become only more evident with time. Bush left behind an America in dire condition and with a degraded reputation. On Inauguration Day, the United States was in a downward financial spiral brought on by predatory lending, legally sanctioned greed and pyramid schemes, an economic policy geared to the priorities and the comforts of what soon came to be called “the one per cent,” and deregulation that began before the Bush Presidency. In 2008 alone, more than two and a half million jobs were lost—up to three-quarters of a million jobs a month. The gross domestic product was shrinking at a rate of nine per cent. Housing prices collapsed. Credit markets collapsed. The stock market collapsed—and, with it, the retirement prospects of millions. Foreclosures and evictions were ubiquitous; whole neighborhoods and towns emptied. The automobile industry appeared to be headed for bankruptcy. Banks as large as Lehman Brothers were dead, and other banks were foundering. It was a crisis of historic dimensions and global ramifications. However skillful the management in Washington, the slump was bound to last longer than any since the Great Depression.

    At the same time, the United States was in the midst of the grinding and unnecessary war in Iraq, which killed a hundred thousand Iraqis and four thousand Americans, and depleted the federal coffers. The political and moral damage of Bush’s duplicitous rush to war rivalled the conflict’s price in blood and treasure. America’s standing in the world was further compromised by the torture of prisoners and by illegal surveillance at home. Al Qaeda, which, on September 11, 2001, killed three thousand people on American soil, was still strong. Its leader, Osama bin Laden, was, despite a global manhunt, living securely in Abbottabad, a verdant retreat near Islamabad.

    Read more

    • Unfortunately – the average American lives by one motto – what have you done for me lately?

      I suspect this is why dancing horses get more applause than workhorses.

  3. Why should be we believe Ryan about his tax plan when we know how he manipulated that photo-op at the soup kitchen.

    Helping the soup kitchen my Aunt Fannie…

    I am not Catholic – but how many Hail Marys does it take to absolve one of lying through their pearly white teeth?

    • One of the more ironic parts of the yelling that Obama knew this and covered up that with regard to the tragic attack in Libya and the complexity of the situation still unfolding, is that both Romney and Ryan are serial liars about everything. I heard it said the Rove plan is take your own weakness and do everything you can to make it your opponents weakness. Lying seems to come naturally to both Romney and Ryan. Sad that it also seems to work with some people. You can fool some of the people all of the time. I firmly believe it only works with those who want so badly to believe Romney might be a decent man. He isn’t and he proves it each time he opens his mouth.

      I expect to hear more from Romney about Libya in tonight’s debate. What I don’t expect to hear is what Romney would do differently. Romney has nothing in his bag of tricks but criticism.

    • prairie pond

      Being anti-choice means never having to say you are sorry.

      Ditto with being anti-gay.

      All lies in service to those to ends justify any means in Catholic wingnuttia.

  4. Foreign policy: Four years ago, the republicans were frothing at the mouth about electing a President with ZERO foreign policy experience. Today, the amnesia, the hypocrisy reigns.

    They were adamant that ending the war in Iraq was “cut and run.” Remember? They scoffed at the President giving speeches in the Middle East and called him a “celebrity.”

    Then the so-called Arab Spring took root. Americans cheered the crowds protesting for liberty and democracy. Today the republicans want to tell you that the people who fought for freedom shouldn’t have been allowed to vote and elect their own government. They scream “Muslim Brotherhood” and expect you to cower in fear.

    I don’t want a President who is used to being a boss. A CEO. A person who doesn’t live in a world where compromise is a consideration. A person who is used to getting his own way. How is that going to work in foreign policy? Not all problems will be solved with big guns and the machinations of war.

    President Obama’s leadership works! It is important to carry a big stick, but more important to know when and how to use it.

  5. Interesting! This lays out the ever-changing Romney clearly, complete with links to Romney’s statements and positions. Wonder which deeply-held conviction Romney will show up with at tonight’s debate? Will he come right out and admit he is a war monger?

    A Comprehensive Timeline Of Mitt Romney’s Foreign Policy Positions During The Campaign

    (from the link): Mitt Romney has spent considerable effort trying to avoid foreign policy and national security this campaign season. But when he’s had to engage, he’s forced to strike a delicate balance between satisfying his neocon advisers and right-wing war base on the one hand — while speaking to the rest of the country, which has no appetite for the militaristic Republican policies that have plagued this country since 2001, on the other.

    In recent weeks, Romney made good on a promise he made earlier this year to a wealthy donor that he would try to exploit a foreign policy crisis for political gain. “If something of that nature presents itself,” Romney said, referring to the Iranian hostage crisis in 1979, “I will work to find a way to take advantage of the opportunity.” With the attack that killed four Americans at the U.S diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya last month, Romney has done just that.

    The basis of Romney’s foreign policy critique of President Obama is that Obama went around the world and apologized for America after he became president. Of course, this never happened, but the baseless attack has been a hallmark from Romney’s campaign with respect to foreign policy. Indeed, Romney’s foray into foreign policy has been a bumpy road. Here’s a timeline from throughout the 2012 presidential campaign that lays it all out:

  6. In Romney’s “47 percent” speech: “And I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there’s just no way. And so what you do is you say you move things along the best way you can. You hope for some degree of stability, but you recognize that it’s going to remain an unsolved problem. I mean, we look at that in China and Taiwan. All right, we have a potentially volatile situation, but we sort of live with it. And we kick the ball down the field and hope that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve.”

  7. It really doesn’t matter which Romney shows up tonight, or which position he decides to take, the minority (including Latino) and women’s votes will be plenty to ensure President Obama is reelected!

  8. I plan to watch the debate tonight. Anyone else planning to watch? Maybe we’ll gather back here with a comment or two after it ends. I also plan to set the debate to record just in case sleepiness finally catches up with me.

    Unless one of the men is totally ‘off,’ as was President Obama at the first debate I predict everyone will think ‘their guy’ did best. Pretty safe prediction, huh!? 🙂

  9. Foreign Policy Quiz: Are You Prepared for Tonight’s Debate?

    President Obama and Governor Romney have no doubt been studying up for tonight’s debate in Boca Raton, which focuses on foreign policy. There’s a lot to talk about, but we’re pretty sure the candidates will discuss American exceptionalism, China, Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel and Iran, the defense budget — and, of course, Libya.

    But what about you? Are you ready for tonight?

    Test your preparedness by taking our foreign policy quiz, and tell us what you hope to hear tonight in the comments section. (Scroll down for 10 questions.)

  10. Is this the argument Romney will attempt to make again tonight? The same one Fox “News” makes —

    “The argument isn’t about what sort of policy we should be pursuing toward Libya, or how we can address anti-Americanism or terrorism, or what sort of security our embassies and consulates should have. Instead, it’s about which words Obama said on which day. Seriously.”

  11. Women constitute more than half of the population. In 2008, 60% of voters were women. It is estimated that 10 million more women than men will vote in this election.

    Mitt Romney and the Republican Party are determined to overturn Roe V. Wade. Romney has not supported equal pay for women (The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act). Romney has vowed to defund Planned Parenthood. Romney has vowed to repeal the Affordable Care Act. Romney doesn’t want health care to cover birth control. Romney says same sex marriage should be banned with a Constitutional Amendment.

    Women, our vote alone can win this election. A vote for Obama is a vote for your health and your right to choose. It is a vote for equal pay and equal rights. A vote for Obama is a vote for our families. It is a vote to marry who you choose. It’s a vote to start a family when you choose. A vote for Obama says that we won’t stand for violence against women and that rape is rape. Our vote ensures that our daughters will grow up with the same rights that we’ve had. A vote for Obama sends a message: This war on women must end. We will not go backwards.

    • ne thing that disturbed me last Tuesday while channel surfing post-debate (which I did not watch) was the female college student who was apparently part of a focus group for MSNBC stating that jobs were important, the other stuff, e.g., pay equality, would need to wait. Thus, she was leaning toward Romney. I could not believe my ears, but sadly decided that she was likely a sorority girl, who has yet to meet the real world.

      • I readily admit there are females who do vote against their own best interests. I think they are the minority, and as you mention there’s nothing like the real world to teach lessons that help you make it through life with more grace. I don’t wonder much about those women because I don’t think it’s possible to make sense out of nonsense.

        According to polls more men (at least those who are ‘white’) favor Romney over Obama in this election. So, I deduce there are some things that defy logic. I know for a fact most men aren’t wealthy enough to benefit from Romney policies.

      • While you are very correct, one of the things that drives white male support for Gov. Romney is the belief that “Hell, he did it so can I”, which defies all logic. While there was a time when true merit had a chance of being rewarded economically, with a precious few exceptions, those days are gone.

        The younger snarled most unkindly when she heard the referenced response, and was quite dismissive of the young woman. I’m quite proud of her (of course).

      • prairie pond

        Young women have no idea what an advantage they have with youth and beauty. You have to be an old broad like me to see it. Many of these youthful women say, “I’ve never been discriminated against.” To which I reply two ways.

        One, I’d add “yet.”

        Two, I’d say, “How do you know? You don’t know what your male coworkers and superiors make against what women make or how that adds up in a lifetime in lost resume and accrued benefits.

        They don’t know what they don’t know. Wait until they are not so young and cute. They’ll find out the economic value of the wisdom and experience of older women have. Zero or nearly zero.

        Discrimination can never “wait.” It’s never more important than immediate economic gain. WTF? If half of the workforce is earning less, that’s an economic crisis all it’s own.

        I’d like to ask that kid in twenty or thirty years how she feels. Unfortunately, if Romney is elected, we likely won’t be here at that time. We’ll all be speaking Chinese.

    • wicked

      Amen, on all of the above. 6176, I’ve seen those same girls. Like you, I taught mine the truth. No reason why they should live in that bubble of innocence. They need to know. This isn’t the 1950s, where it didn’t matter if women had skills beyond homemaking and child-rearing.

  12. Who knew the Romney that would show up tonight would be a cheer leader for President Obama? WOW! Just, WOW! He would do nothing differently! He admits that what President Obama is doing is the right course to follow!

    • wicked

      Amazing, isn’t it? He’s parroting everything Obama says. And he’s sweating. What? No hanky to mop the brow?

      • He does indeed need that hanky! He looks weak and sounds like the puppet he is! He really will say anything, be anything, do anything. In this case, on the subject of foreign policy, he recognizes superiority and parrots it! What a farce of a man!

  13. Somebody clued Romney into the fact that Americans aren’t going to support a war monger!

    Of course, there’s also the fact that we all recognize the many different positions he has taken and know his word can’t be trusted!

    President Obama is THE Commander in Chief and is proving it tonight.

  14. President Obama isn’t allowing Romney to remake himself yet again on this night!

  15. President Obama seem to be relaxing more as the debate continues, while Governor Romney seems to be more and more anxious and nervous. Oh, where is that hanky? 🙂

  16. When President Obama is relaxed and talking to Americans about the strengths and successes of America he is very inspirational. He lets every American know he has each of us and our interests at heart.

    Romney, on the other hand, sounds very elitist and reminds us that when he was talking about the 47%, and thought no one was listening but the 1%, is when he shows WHO he is, and when he relaxes.

  17. Oh, look! The Romney sneer is back!

  18. I do understand that earlier I predicted everyone would think their guy won…

    MY GUY WON! Hooray! 🙂

  19. prairie pond

    Have I mentioned lately I really, really, REALLY hate Romney? What a bass-turd.


  20. Off topic, kinda —

    Go in and look at the stats. A post Jammer made long ago (darn, I forgot to note when), long enough ago that Steven commented, titled, “IT’S OFFICIAL: THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS SELF-DESTRUCTED! has had over 130 views today.

    That means users of the net did a search and clicked on that link over 130 times today. They clicked on that link because it addressed what they were looking for!

    We have a tiny blog, with a few friends who enjoy communicating with one another and we don’t get a lot of traffic. We don’t even put tags on our posts because views isn’t what we’re interested in. None of our clicks even count since we’re all admins and authors and able to do whatever we want with OUR blog. Our average day is around 200 views for the entire blog. Today, enough people were looking for ‘how republicans have self destructed’ to get over 130 views on that one old thread. On top of that we got our average around 200 views.

    I think there are a bunch of people who are realizing how seriously the republicans are self destructing!

    • I have been wondering what kind of event, or series of events, would result in the Republican Party suffering the fate of the Whigs. Could it be we, as a country, are approaching that time?

      • prairie pond

        Does anyone but me wonder if they will take the whole country down with them and their dying gasps? Civil war anyone?

    • prairie pond

      That’s amazing Fnord. It makes me both sad and happy to think how proud Steven would be. Smiling through tears? Thanks for all you do to keep this place running.

      I’m amazed we get 200 hits a day. That’s pretty cool!

  21. This about wraps it up —

  22. “You mention the Navy, for example, and the fact that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets,” Obama said during the final presidential debate. “Because the nature of our military has changed. We have these things called aircraft carriers where planes land on them. We have ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines.”

  23. I’m not convinced that Romney wasn’t playing Battleship! I know the president wasn’t, and it takes some talent to lose when you’re playing yourself, but I think that’s what Romney did tonight. I should give Romney enough credit to note that he was losing the game against himself while airbrushing history. Could that count as multi-tasking?

  24. wicked

    I think Romney knew this would be his weakest debate and he did what he could to stay afloat, that being repeat everything the President said.

    There’s a lot to be said for experience, and he just doesn’t have it. It’s good that foreign policy was saved for last, because this is what those who watch will remember. For the truly undecided, it was an eye-opener.

    For the diehard Romney fans, it didn’t matter. I have far too many friends who’ve drank the koolaid for too long. Too bad they can’t get the president they want, and I can get mine. Too bad they can’t have a Charles Dickens A Christmas Carol-type moment, where they’re shown what the future would be if they got their wish.

    • I am convinced a large number of Romney voters would vote for a sack of shit. Their goal is anybody but Obama. They’re the people who will say Romney won the debate without ever realizing (or acknowledging) the only foreign policy presented was the presidents and Romney sat and agreed with that policy.

      It did make Romney sweat tho! Oft times called ‘flop sweat.’ That’s the picture I remember — the sweaty lip and forehead with narry a hanky in sight.

      • prairie pond

        “I am convinced a large number of Romney voters would vote for a sack of shit. Their goal is anybody but Obama.”

        Aint that the damn truth. That’s what allows Mitt to Etch A Sketch his way out of his previously extreme positions. His loyal minions don’t care what he says or when he says it. They want anyone but Obama and they will vote for Mitt even if he killed a kitten with a hammer on live television. They’d vote for Mitt even if he was found with a live boy or dead girl in his bed. No matter what, they’d vote for anyone besides Obama.

        I just wish Obama had realized that early on. There is nothing he could have ever done to swing repukes his way. He should have stopped pandering to them and watering down policy and legislation to please them, and he should have just done what works instead of kissing so much repuke/rick warren ass.

        All that sucking up to the repukes may, in the long run, have cost him the election because of the bad policy that resulted.

  25. Just got from errands and grandson napping ….so I can put my 2 cents worth in..

    Romney appeared very nervous, anxious, unsteady, looked like a deer in headlights – need I go on?

    I listend to Bill OReilly bluster this morning as to why Romney should have brought up Libya to Obama – specifically the way Obama Administration handled it – I guess Bill-O did not get the message from last week’s smackdown that Romney received at the hands of the moderator Crowley?

    I’ve seen several Republians pundits talking about how Romney lost more ground with his own GOP base than he did the undecided voters.

    But -then again – I heard Paul Ryan whine about why did Obama compare the navy ship to horses and bayonets – which is evident, the Paul did not get the point of what Obama was saying – did he?

    I had to laugh when Obama said something to the effect that it’s not playing Battleship to count how many ships we have – it is the capabilties of the ships we do have.

    But – I suspect this point also went clearly above the Republicans’ heads – for I suspect more than a few of those white guys who are supporting Romney also believe that the bigger the better – and more of them – is the way to go.

    But…what is laughable is when these Fundy Christians spew this desire to have more and more ships to show our strength.

    I wonder if these folks have ever bothered to read that Bible before they thump it? I am reminded of the story of David and Goliath. Goliath was the bigger, strongest and seemed to have all the advantages to win the fight. David only had a slingshot.

    Tell me again…..who won that fight?

    This is what Republicans do NOT understand – or don’t want to understand? – if we are going to have a military that is unbeatable – then we need to learn to fight with our brainpower – not our brute strength.

    In the Iraq War – how many of our soldiers were killed or wounded by their homemade bombs?

    Think about that……..homemade bombs against our military strength?

    That – says it all.

    Again – I say – the choice is clear. Do you want a Dancing Horse or do you want a Workhorse?

    My choice is the workhorse – and I hope to God these Reublicans will finally get it into their pea brains to join the workhorse and start helping solve these problems they helped to create.

  26. I think the lasting impression from the foreign policy debate will be President Obama saying that – it is time for America to build our own nation.

    We have been so busy nation building around the globe – that we have neglected our own country.

    That – more than anything else – should resonate with voters.

    Seriously – when I think of GWB using my tax dollars to give Iraqis free health care, new hospitals, new roads, electric and water service – what about Americans that cannot even go to the doctor because of being non-insured or just don’t have the money to go?

    It is way past time for America to take care of our country – damn it.

  27. Serious question – does anyone here believe Romney when he said last night that war was his last resort?

    With all those GOP war drums beating……I thought I might have heard wrong.

    • I don’t believe him! He is a war monger, and look at his advisers — 17 of the 24 are neocons from the Bush2 administration. I do believe someone trained him to say something different just to appear reasonable. Plenty of time for controlling the world militarily if only they can get their puppet elected.

      • Grover Norquist told the Republicans that they only needed to nominate someone with ten digits to sign what they put in front of them.

        Those are the standards of the current GOP – huh?

  28. No time to consider the challenge up top (even though I just finished a book on economics). But this popped up in FB, and thought it should be here as well. . Cheers to my favorite farm animals! (joking, joking! . . .)