Wednesday, 6/27/12, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

59 responses to “Wednesday, 6/27/12, Public Square

  1. Romney is both non-specific and very specific

    (From the link): When Gov. Romney was asked just what loopholes he would close to lower corporate and individual taxes, he said he’ll work with Congress on that when he’s elected. One of the funniest things Nancy Pelosi ever said was that Congress had to pass the Affordable Care Act to know what was in it. Romney makes a variant of that claim here: To know what he will do, we must elect him.

  2. R.D. Liebst

    Well it is always been a part of me and something my wife and mother is either proud of or embarrassed by. I tend to have an opinion and a sense of right and wrong, not to mention a bit defensive about my grandchildren. Three of my grandsons are special needs is the polite way to put it and otherwise they are A.D.D. The oldest is the worst and general who others have a real problem with his behavior.

    Well they are getting to go to a summer camp for special needs children and ride a bus to the camp.
    One of the attendants has had a problem with the oldest so now he has to wear a strap and be tied down.
    Not quite a strain jacket but still something to attach to the seat and I got yell at because I did not have the strap on him before he started up the steps. So now before he leaves the house I put the strap on him and this morning I point out he had it on under his backpack.

    She grumbled and said “fine”, I told my wife and my daughter who is the mother of the boys I got them there and on the bus. My daughter called me and said she was mad at them too because now they have said that the oldest can not go to Frontier city on a field trip which he has been looking forward to.

    The bus company and their attendants are not trained to handle special needs and my daughter has offered to go with them to care for the oldest since he so wants to go. They told her no since there is not enough room on the bus for one more adult and they have attendants going. What in the Hell is going on when even a program for special needs children do not have the ability to handle a special need child?

    Romney would say let them eat cake except for cake cost money and would be going to someone that is not a productive member of society. It worries me for his future and sadly in the time I was in Law enforcement I got to see the future this boy is facing. It might be different if the problem was physical but with mental problems there just is no real solution in this society for him. Except for the ole tried and ruined solution of a long prison sentence and years of being an outcast.

    • Oh, Rick, my heart hurts for you.

      I guess I can understand the bus company not being trained, but you said ‘attendants’ are going along to Frontier City. Aren’t they trained?

      I know right now it’s hard to find any rainbow behind this dark cloud, but you absolutely can’t allow yourself to go so far into the future and see such a dismal outcome! You can’t do that! You must continue loving, continue nurturing, continue looking for opportunities, continue hoping! He’s worth that and then some!

      • R.D. Liebst

        I will not give up on him but it just makes it worse that here he has to go to certain school for their program. He has to ride a certain bus to that school and like last school year I last track of how many times I got a call to come and get him because they could not handle him. He acts more head strong then anything else.

      • My grandkids are head strong also. Consistency in our parenting (which involves everyone on the same page – Dad, Mom, Grandpa and Me) is crucial. But alot of love and just plain – being there with the kid – is what it takes.

        I feel for you – I know how hard it is soemtimes. But I also know how the school system can be – sometimes the ‘professionals’ just make things worse – IMHO.

      • R.D. Liebst

        I guess I curse him and me, the call has came to come and pick him up because they can not handle him. I was going with my wife to pick him up from the camp when my daughter call and said they got through to her after they called my wife. So she is picking him up, with little sleep and so he and I will get to spend the afternoon together. I was going to see if my son could go with me to finish mowing mom’s grass before wichita gigs her again about the grass.

  3. I’m reading opinions that state the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare will be Robert’s legacy. I read that Roberts risks looking like a Bush appointee gutting the signature accomplishment of a Democratic president. No matter how it comes down, Roberts will own it…

    I personally think Roberts legacy is already a done deal. He settled that with his maneuvering tactics, his back-room ‘deals’ to make the Citizens United decision a much broader one than came before the Court. The Robert’s Court has done their damage and I see no recourse against big money owning our representative government.

  4. R.D. Liebst

    LOL some times I really do wish I had stayed out-of-touch and being cared for even when it came to being protected from thinking. The field trips were fun and I got ice cream anytime I wanted it! Not to mention that my fellows often made more sense then sane people do!

    • Sometimes we all need a safe place to fall until we can manage to put one foot in front of the other. We humans are very fallible. Makes you wonder how we make it through this thing called life.

      Could your grandson go in a private car behind the bus? Could we take up a collection to make it possible for your daughter and him to do that? Would they allow it if we could make it happen?

      • prairie pond

        That’s a great idea, Fnord. Count me in.

      • Count me in too…….

      • R.D. Liebst

        I think in a way that is what they want him to do be brought to school everyday even though the bus already passes by the house to pick up an other student. I do not have room in my truck to bring all three and they all love riding the bus 2. LOL the other student also like seeing Papa Pirate too. It just so upsets me that because of them being willing to take special needs children this school gets more funding. Before he was having to go to Wichita and my daughter had to get off work in the morning and make a mad dash to that school. Why is it that when someone is not quite the norm they are thought of as somehow sub-human?

      • There are still a bunch of us who celebrate differences and see them as opportunities to learn all that is new to us. What a boooorrrring place if everyone was just alike!

      • My youngest nephew has Tourette’s Syndrome. This was diagnosed when he was a teenager. Due to his manifestations of physical ticks and his lack of attention span – my nephew had a very difficult time learning in the rigid structured class room.

        My newphew was in high school and some teqacher were greqt with him. But he had a couple that were absolustely horrid. They were the bullying types – you know, those who think the weaker are the prime targets to pick on?

        Anyway – my nephew got to the point where he dreaded going to school because he knew those couple of teachers would make his life a living Hell and he was only 16 yrs old.

        My nephew finally walked into the principal’s office – and quit school on the spot. The counselor called my SIL with the news that they were letting my nephew walk out the door and she begged them to keep him there until she got down to the school and try to talk to him.

        The counselor said – and I quote “He’s of legal age to quit school and I will not interfere with his right to do so”

        My SIL just about went through the phone she was so upset.

        My nephew then went through three years of wandering around – got into some drug and alcohol abuse. Finally, one day, my nephew got tired of living that life and he decided to come back to live with his parents and got his G.E.D.

        YOu see – my nephew was not incapable of learning – he was simply not in the best setting to learn. My nephew learns in a different way than to just sit and be lectured to and then fill in all the correct answers on the mandated tests.

        Perhaps this is just one reason that I always hated that No Child Left Behind nonsense?

        OUr country needs to wake up to the fact that everybody in our society deserves the same opportunities – and if that means we have to think outside the box to help some kids learn – then we have to think outside the box.

        My nephew today is married and has two great kids. There is not a car made that my nephew could not repair. That is where his talents are – not in some book, memorizing facts.

        WE all have different talents and WE all could learn from others – if we just open our minds to do so.

  5. Rick – I have always been very cynical about religion – but I’ve always made it known that I believe in God. And I only have one thing to tell you to do in this situation with your grandson…

    Never give up, always keep trying and remember that whatever God you believe in or if you don’t even believe in God – taht life will always e throwing obstacles in our way. But the human spirit is something that is very tough. The human spirit is what makes us different than the animals in our world.

    It’s the human spirit that knows about love – and loyalty – to our loved ones.

    Your grandson is not yet grown up enough to know how to manuever through this society – which is why he needs his Grandpa and other family members to help him.

    One day – in the not-too-distant future – your grandson will remember the loving ways of his Grandpa. And THAT is what makes us all better human beings.

    I love fnord’s idea and if I can help with money for gas – please allow me the opportunity to show how much I care.

    • I feel the need to share something:

      Last night, my niece telephoned me to let know that the youngest son (30yrs old) of one of childhood friends was tragically killed in a one-car accident. His car left the roadway for some reason, he hit a tree and the car burst into flames. The smoke was what killed this yoiung man – and I have to beleie that maybe that is the silver lining in this horrible event – may be this young man was somehow giiven the most humane way out of htis life and not hae ing to go through the pain of that fire and other injuries from the crash.

      My heart goes out to my childhood friend , his wife and the rest of his family. These are people just like me – middle class, followed the rules and did their best to make the world a little brighter. So why their son?

      But this morning – I hugged my two grandkids a little tighter and I just thanked God that I had the opportunity to see them and be with them today.

      And, yes, even pick up after them for the hundredth time during the day. I have a 20-month old grandson and 6-yr-old granddaughter. They are just average kids and they love to drag out the toys but when it comes to picking them up and putting them away – well, that’s where Grandma has to come in and try to play the drill seargent role.

      Yesterday was a trying day for me – it seemed like I was forever picking up the same toys off the same floor and I must confess Grandma lost it for a few minutes. I came off as more of that drill seargent than their loving Grandma.

      But after last night’s shocking news – I thank God that I have the opportunity to once again – try to do my best not to lose my cool – when the same toys get thrown down in the same places today more than a few times.

      I need to remember that I am one of the lucky ones – I have my grandkids to be under foot all the time. There are things that would be alot worse.

      Life is so fleeting that we take it for granted. Which is why I also believe as a liberal progressive voter – I need to be involved in what happens in my country.

      Life is already hard enough – do we really need to make it any tougher on people?

    • R.D. Liebst

      thanks for the offer you all, it is not so much about the money as it is about the child and the future. He is not different from other children he has hopes and dreams. IN a world that for the most part will not have the time or patients to allow his hopes and dreams. That will make it even worse for him to be in. Make him so anti-social that he will have to other use for people then as some victim to feed upon. Make him feel as there is no other alterative for him then to end up living in a rundown hobble and depending on others to feed him.

      Sadly there are real indecations that many even without having such problems may face the same plights. Already my oldest son is willing to go to the ends of the earth just to make a living and not much of a reward at that. I can only do what I can and that will be that. I so can relate to that book ” I am dancing as fast as I can”. The boys will survive and with my help maybe not end up with his face on American’s most wanted.

  6. I think it’s hardest when we see our kids or grand kids hurting. I know life can toss me around and it doesn’t matter nearly as much.

    We have two cars Rick if that’s a concern

    • R.D. Liebst

      I hear that, I did not like being in that place in Tusla but would go back in a heartbeat to save my daughter and grandson this pain and suffering.
      LOL Chasing white rabbits was not as bad though I did spend most time staring out my little window and feeling lost and confused.

    • R.D. Liebst

      No other then the continuing shift from one person having to use another car when that person is not using it. My daughter finally has been able to get her’s fix. A full size Drango which is big enough to haul her family.
      Wal-mart does not exactly pay the best and as time get tougher I know Wal-mart will become such a bad place. I still am not sure exactly why they fired me after so many years and it took over a year to finally find out that they said I stole something? Shoot I did not even take my box knife home with me?

      we will endeaver to pursiver then declare war on the White man! My favor saying from outlaw Joses wales said by Lon-watte.

  7. Did you hear where Mitt Romney promised if he is elected president that our economy will take off because he knows what he will do …

    Hmmm….this reminds me of John McCain’s big surprise statement a few weeks before the 2008 election. Remember when Johnny Boy came out with the news that he knew a surefire plan to get or kill Bin Laden?

    Isn’t it very telling that obviously Johnny Boy did not share that surefire plan with anyone or helse Bin Laden would have been captured or kiled before Obama gave the order to go in and get the self-admitted mastermind behind 9/11.

    Is this Romney promise on the same level as that McCain promise to get Bin Laden?

    But you know – there is no one stopping Romney from telling his 1% friends to stop sitting on those trillions in cash and start creating those jobs right now.

    In fact, maybe if Romney would actually start ‘doing’ something like creating those jobs – people might actually beleive him.

    But, alas, this Romney promise is just another one of those carrots these Republicans love to dangle in front of the gullible noses.

    • Romney will say what he hopes will get him votes. The problem is that anyone who will vote for him based on what he has said would vote for him if he kept his mouth shut and said nothing. Have you seen all the recent polls for the swing states? He’s behind in all of them. It will take more than being critical of Obama to win swing votes and there aren’t enough republican voters to win at the national level.

      One poll I saw this morning showed Bachmann is in a tough race! I think voters in her state might have seen her for the first time when she was still in the presidential race and they didn’t like what they saw.

      • Michele Bachmann deserves everything she is getting and I hope she find the unemployment line to be a pleasant place to be – since she and her fellow Republicans put so many of our fellow Americans on that line through their unpaid special Bush tax cuts adn all the other goodies their Little Cowboy President gave to their base – the 1%.

    • I haven’t seen political tactics this ugly since the days McCain was accused of fathering a black child. I deplore the power of the NRA. The lies and deception will continue, but I do feel republicans will come out of this stinking the place up badly and no one will want to be associated with their stench.

      Losing sucks but it provides good insight into character or the lack thereof.

  8. This also shows a lack of character – IMHO.

    This is not the first time the Romney bus has done this – but has Romney put an end to this type of juvenile behavior of his own campaign staff?

    Let’s just say – his lack of response to this similar to his lack of judgment on alot of stuff.

    • BTW – can you imagine if Romney is president and he sends our troops in their tanks to circle his perceived enemy?

      This is where character – or the lack thereof – comes into focus.

  9. G-STIR

    Remember- Romney has “something” for everyone, and if not today, there’s always tomorrow for “something” new again. etc, etc, ad nauseum.

    • I’ve decided that if Romney gets in as president – we should change from the Bald Eagle to the Vulture as being our national symbol?

      It fits perfectly…..doesn’t it?

      • R.D. Liebst

        I could never trust someone to do the right thing that made a living from feeding of the hard work of others then taking it from them when hard times hit. He would sell the United States to China without notice.

      • But, but….Mitt has already promised that he will get tough with China. Yeah, I guess we need to get clarification on what his definition of ‘tough’ means – huh?

  10. R.D. Liebst

    Well later awaiting the grandson so I better put things up he might want to get into since I was free today I thought I could do somethings like mowing or fixing the weedeater.

  11. I received a letter in today’s mail from Mitt Romney.

    It says: You know what’s wrong with our country.

    Americans are suffering. Liberal policies are failing.

    You know who is responsible.

    For the sake of the country we love, will you help me defeat Barack Obama by contributing generously to our campaign before it is too late?

    A simple and stupid letter. No plans, no solutions, no ideas. Because for his constituency all you have to be is NOT Obama. I predict that’s about all Mitten$ really is — not anything more than NOT Obama.

    • Americans are suffering because their boy drove us over that cliff – but we did not smash entirely because President Obama got in and has worked his butt off trying to keep Depression from hitting us smack dab in the faces.

      Do I mean there are not Americans suffering – NO. But I think we can all agree that Mitt and his1% buddies aare not suffering….

      • BTW – fnord – you lucky little devil you – you got a letter from Mitt Romney. I’ve not gotten that one – but I have not had time to check my mail yet today and it is a long drive down to that box.

        And the heat is too DAMN hot….

      • Be still my thumping little heart – I am so excited at the prospect of receiving my letter from Mitt Romney.

        you can all tell this is very heavy sarcasm – correct?


    The good professor says, succinctly and directly, that which I have thought for quite a while. Well worth reading and considering.

    • Just put a golden-laced robe on Scalia and he would be the perfect money vendor in the Temple – which Jesus threw out quite handily and in short order.

      That was the only time Jesus ever lost his temper – IIRC.


    A bit more about the good Justice by the good professor, which seems to be written more for an audience of lawyers than the general public.

    • He’s now the old man screaming at neighborhood kids to stay off his grass. Too bad he didn’t grow more tolerant, kind and loving. He would have found greater enjoyment in his twilight years if he had, and his legacy wouldn’t have become so tarnished.

      • It doesn’t really matter what we think – this man is be paid handsomely by the taxpayers and he does not have to care about anyone or anything.

        As for his legacy – with this one act of crass behavior – he has wiped out alot of good he might have done in the past.

        He will forever be remembered for this stunt.

      • Following the same path as Justice Douglas. Both are sad cases.

  14. I just got a call which was announced as an important message from the executive vp of the NRA. I couldn’t hang up fast enough. There is evil in this world and I consider that organization one of the most evil!

  15. I’m sure we folks here in PPP remember Don Grady – ‘Robbie’ in “My Three Sons’ t.v. show?

    Damn…..another one to cancer…..

  16. azzippy

    SIgh. Hi Rick. Hi Indy. Hi 6. This thread leaves me both sad and with a renewed determination.

    Rick, you are are an awesome, thoughtful and poignantly talented person. They can take your dignity away temporarily, but everyone who knows you will always know better.

    6, heh, I gotta take the time for a good-natured quibble. I am a firm believer in the Machivellian school of Scalia thought. This does not exclude good ‘ol Frankfurtian bullshit — it’s so much easier when you convince yourself of the truth and consistency of any position you want to take today.

    Having said that, if you use the right lens, Nino has been remarkably consistent: He supports government power, particularly executive power, but only when exercised by his political/social/financial allies. He is strong supporter of states’ rights, when he supports the fight they’re picking with the Feds (i.e. Violence Against Women Act, SB 1070), but not so much when it’s contrary to a gratuitous overreaching decision of the Court’s vintage (Citizens United).

    He support the private sector being freed from harmful and unconstitutional government regulation (most of his ruling), unless we’re talking about unions and political contributions.

    He supports the rights of states to govern over the people, even to the extent of ignoring federal law (see VAWA, SB1070 etc.), unless it involves, say, marijuana, or Montana campaign finance laws.

    Occasionally, he will land on the BIll of Rights side of a issue (usually free speech cases where genitalia are not relevant, but also in Fourth and Fifth Amendment cases).. But his entire history on the Court shows an adherence to a principle of ad hoc power serving short-term political interests (yes, I’m going there), where principal is not the driver of the decision at all. It is not some philosophical grand design besotted by age.

    Which I think — I’m not sure– was the point of the Justice Douglas comparison (more apposite to Black in my view, but I might have completely missed the point).

    And I am underwhelmed by the good professor’s analysis, but then I have been reading Nino’s work for longer than he has.

  17. prairie pond

    We miss you Zippy.

    • azzippy

      I know. I’m sorry. I’ll be back.

      • You’re the one from Arizona – correct? How do you think that Barber (I think is his name) that was elected to finish out Gabby Gifford’s seat will do in the general election?

      • BTW – My husband was in nursing home management for many years. We were transferred to Yuma when my kids were in Kingergarten and 2nd grade. I remember the school was named after Ronald Reagan.

        Man….was I proud or what??

        P.S. – We were told when we moved into Yuma that the town was a place where people came to hide from something or to simply ‘get lose’ from the rest of hte world.

        Personally, I did not care for Yuma that much. But we did get to drive over to California on the weekends – so I did get to see the ocean quite a few times. That was fun.

        I remember we used to drive to Phoenix for the weekend – for some excitement. What a long and hot drive back to Yuma

        I also remember Yuma was the nursing home where Mexicans would cross the border every day to come to work as housekeepers and kitchen staff. I also remember the time one of the cooks was caught stuffing frozen hamburger down the toilets because she had been suspected of stealing. Man – what a mess…..

        But, to tell you the truth, we did learn alot there – but we never developed any closed friendships with any of the nursing home workers like we have at several other nursing homes we were transferred into – like Kansas (twice transferred), New Mexico, Michigan and Tennessee.

        Our first transfer was from Illinois to Chanute Kansas and out last transfer was from Tennessee to Larned Kansas. After that – we moved to Wichita because Larned was just way too small and not much to offer our growing kids for their future.

      • azzippy

        Ron will win. No question. He will face a primary from Matt Heinz, who if I recall correctly is a doctor who happens to be gay (don’t flinch, Kansans, the previous District 8 — with more Republicans than the new District 2 — was represented by an openly gay Republican — Jim Kolbe — for 22 years). But Ron will still win.

        Martha McSally will win the Republican nomination, and I’m hoping it will be a somewhat less ludricrous contest. I say “somewhat less” because she is, of course, a conservative Republican, but she isn’t nearly as ridiculous and scripted as Kelly was.

        There are other possibilities — the aggreived lunatic base could nominate Frank Antenori (the guy who slagged my City Council district — represented by a thinkng Republican — and that was the point– as people who got most of their income from government.).

        Lots of folks will be saying “sympathy vote”, but “rebuilding the middle class” is a campaign theme that’s been gaining traction, and Ron seems to be very committed to sane governance..

        Wihich is good. “Kill and eat the rich” is problematic and lacks cache’ for numerous reasons, but the Beltway crowd has to realize what will happen if we don’t fix this.

  18. azzippy

    P.S. I’ll actually never been to Yuma. I here it’ gets hot there. đŸ™‚

    • I remember visiting the old Yuma Prison (which is now a park). And my first thought was – Good God – this is a Hell Hole and the perfect place to put it…