Monday, 3/26/12, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

66 responses to “Monday, 3/26/12, Public Square

  1. R.D. Liebst

    I started laughing when Fox news call the President “arrogant when he said after his re-election he would…”. The crop of Republican candidates are so lacking and some are as distasteful to cause a shiver of fear. Of course the main thing about running is that very little truth is ever said in order to be elected.
    Promise everything and mean nothing of concrete.

    • If you wonder what it would be like under any of the republican candidates just look back a short few years to the Bush2 years and then realize they want to put his policies on steroids.

      Drain the treasury, constant war… They’ve hated government for a long time, they’re finally close to killing it and the entire country and her population goes down as collateral damage.

  2. Paul Ryan introduced his 2.0 plan and was immediately cheered on by the ‘wannabe president’ candidates. He proved with that plan that solving the deficit problem isn’t nearly as important as (1) continuing and expanding benefits for the wealthy and (2) disabling the federal government.

    His plan would cut taxes by $4.6 trillion over a decade while also extending all of the Bush tax cuts, adding an additional $5.4 trillion to the deficit. Ryan would increase military expenditures and then eviscerate the rest of the federal government. Ryan claims he’d make up for the losses from his new tax cuts with “tax reform” but offered not a single detail. A “plan” with a hole this big is not a plan at all.

    “It would likely produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history and likely increase poverty and inequality more than any other budget in recent times (and possibly in the nation’s history),” according to Robert Greenstein, president of the progressive Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

  3. Stand Your Ground. If you feel threatened, just shoot.

    Conservatives basing laws on feelings.

    • indypendent

      I agree with the concept if you’re threatened in your own home by some intruder that you should have the right to defend yourself and your family.

      But in this Travyon Martin case, the shooter was following this 17-yr-old kid and was told by the 911 dispatcher to not follow him.

      Exactly what ground was that shooter defending – certainly not his ground.

      After all – a neighborhood watch person is to WATCH and then report. He called 911 and he should have let the police handle the situation from that moment forward.

      These Stand Your Ground laws are written so vague that even Yahew with a loaded gun can instigate a fight and then say he/she was fearful for their life when they go too far.

  4. The Renegade Republicans

    White voters, especially older ones, are routinely casting 90 percent or more of the votes in G.O.P. contests this year.

    In an analysis of the contests so far, the Faith and Freedom Coalition found that evangelicals are now a majority, 50.53 percent, of all Republican presidential primary voters.

    These trends, while not predictive of the outcome in November, are problematic for the Republican Party. As the general public becomes more tolerant on issues like gay rights and premarital sex, it is moving farther and farther from the cultural and moral agenda of the religious right. The party’s dependence on whites runs counter to a trend in which this demographic is expected to be a minority by 2050, or possibly as early as 2040. And a party dependent on older voters must worry about the fact that its supporters are dying off.

    • indypendent

      Not all of those white supporters are dying off….some are getting heart transplants – at taxpayers’ expense, I might add.

  5. An average of polls —

  6. I’ve been reading all the opinions and speculation about what might / could happen with the SCOTUS and Obamacare. I think I’ll wait until their decision is handed down. It’s expected sometime in June. That will be here faster than I want to think about, so I’ll wait.

  7. I found this op-ed piece very interesting!

    The Outsourced Party

  8. indypendent

    I started laughing when Fox news call the President “arrogant

    When Fox News Republicans call Obama arrogant – they really mean how dare that black man get so uppity.

    Now, come on, we all know what kind of hoodies these buffoons are wearing…..don’t we?

  9. indypendent

    Speaking of their fear showing – they’re also losing their cool.

    Why do these holier-than-thou types always seem so shocked by the fact they are questioned as to what they actually say in public?

    How dare any media person question the Great Poohbah.

    • indypendent

      Even with all the crap and nonsense President Obama has had to endure – I can only think of a couple of times that he lost his cool with the media asking their questions.

      And then at those times, Obama did not use a profane word – did he?’

      That’s what it takes to be presidential – and Frankly, my Dear, I don’t see anyone on the GOP side that is presidential material.

    • Tantorum. Now that’s funny! I’ve seen him throw tantrums. In fact, I’ve come to expect such behavior from him.

      I’ve noticed how often Santorum needs to ‘explain’ what he said. In other words, he spouted off originally and now he needs to back peddle. Can you imagine a person like him dealing with other world leaders? Or having his finger on the button?

      Reactionaries don’t cut it with me!

      • indypendent

        Sad to say – Santorum does not have to explain anything to his supporters. These folks like to be spoonfed their lily-white pablum daily.

  10. indypendent

    Can you imagine being this wife? I’m sure she does believe that the man she married is not capable of such a horrific act of violence.

    But, lets’ face it, this guy was on his 4th (?) deployment – I can only imagine what one’s mind has to process when in the conditions these politicians have put our soldiers.

    That does not excuse anyone from premeditated murder of civilians – but it does make one wonder, What the Hell are we doing there in that part of the world – except to keep some corporate masters rolling in war profits?

    • indypendent

      IIRC – Wasn’t it the Americans that screamed about Russia being in Afghanistan until those troops finally pulled out?

      What makes it any better for America to be in Afghanistan than the Russians?

      Any way you look at this mess – Baby Bush got us into this crap hole. But seriously, that Afghan President Karzai (sp?) is one little two-faced dude (he has proven himself to be unworth many times).

      So let’s just leave their damn country and say – you deal with it yourselves.

      Oh, but I forgot, the Republicans are so worried about the Afghan women being treated so badly. Hmm, that does not sound right – because back here in America, these same Republicans have declared their War on Women.

      Maybe Republicans only care about Muslim women – as long as the military industrial complex beast gets fed daily at taxpayers’ expense?

      • I can’t understand why we don’t bring them home. Of course, I never understood why we sent them there. That must mean me and my pacifist ways are stuck, unwilling to unlearn in order to learn anything.

        I admit it. I am a pacifist unwilling to accept war and killing as solutions to any situation. To me this is the cowards way out, only weaklings would need to kill instead of doing the hard work of diplomacy.

      • indypendent

        Diplomacy works but as I mentioned before – the Afghan President has proven himself to be someone we cannot trust.

        Diplomacy only works if all parties are upfront and honorable.

        Besides – what does Afghanistan have that we want? Besides the military industrial complex getting their addiction fix of taxpayers money for their war profits.

      • I’m positive you are open to more truths than I am. I have a steel mind on this subject. I’m unwilling to accept war. It’s my hang up.

        I think fear is dangerous and must be replaced with knowledge, and from knowledge comes understanding.

      • indypendent

        I probably am more open to going to war – IF we were under attack.

        But the last war that was true was World War II wasn’t it? Pearl Harbor was attacked – so that’s when we forced to get into the war. IIRC

        These wars in the past few decades – since the Vietnam War (or even the Korean War?) – these wars are more about politics than our country actually being under attack.

        I think that is what President Eisenhower was talking about when he warned us all about letting the military industrial complex beast get too big. I think he knew that America was all too willing to go to war under the pretense of Keeping our Freedom while the actual reason was war profits for the beast.

      • indypendent

        And speaking of World War II – if it had not been for all those Rosie the Riveters and other women doing THEIR part back home while our men were ‘over there, over there’ fighting – exactly where would America be today?

        So for the nerve of these Republicans now to demonize women is a real slap in the face.

        You cannot expect Rosie the Riveter to be every so grateful to some man once she has learned that SHE can do the job on that factory line – just as well as the men did.

        For these Fundie Billy Bibles – according to the Bible, God made Eve out of Adam’s rib – to be his helpmate and partner.

        Did you notice God did not use a bone from Adam’s foot? I assume God did not intend for man to step all over the woman as some kind of submissive doormat.

      • prairie pond

        You need to see the movie “Charlie Wilson’s War.” I actually knew Charlie when I lived in Texas, and in fact he was very helpful to my company.

        Not America’s finest hour, and I think the aid we gave them then set the stage for our difficulties there now, but that’s just my opinion.

      • prairie pond

        A little more about “Good Time Charlie.” Note his commitment to women’s rights. He was a real enigma.

        All I can say is, “the dude abides.” RIP Charlie.

      • indypendent

        PP – I never saw that movie – but I fear that the US has done more meddling around the globe than we should have ever done and now all those chickens are coming home to roost.

        But isn’t it nice that those who started this damn chickenfest are NOT the ones who are here to deal with the damn chickens?

    • No, I can’t imagine what it would be like to find out a person you know well did something so horrendous. And, I don’t think he was the person she knew so well when he committed those acts.

      Doesn’t it take stepping off an edge of sanity to be a killer? In all instances? Who knows what causes a person to take that step? I hate war, I hate it that this man and many other soldiers have been deployed overandover. But he stepped off that edge while other soldiers didn’t. And people all across the world who haven’t been deployed to war zones overandover also step off that edge of sanity.

      Another person who needs to be protected from himself.

      • indypendent

        I don’t know anyone that has ever killed anyone before – so that is a world that is foreign to me.

        I would assume it takes a certain mindset to be able to kill. But if it came down to defending my family – especially my grandkids – I can see myself killing a person.

        But this act of violence was premeditated and done in two waves and on civilians.

        What kind of crap is this about? This goes beyond just killing to defend yourself.

        Insane? maybe – but if he came back and went out again to do more killing – was he really insane or just pumped up on adrenaline and/or drugs?

        I read somewhere that they are looking into the possibility of some side effects to the malaria drug they give these soldiers explaining how this guy went off his rocker.

        I’ll have to look for that article…..

      • His body chemistry is different than another. Who knows. It sure wouldn’t be the first time our military has caused soldiers deaths. I’ve read lots of conflicting things about this case. I’ve even read that the military has wiped some records and making some details unavailable. Another thing they’ve done many times in the past. We may never know the truth, only what the military decides they want to be known.

      • indypendent

        Agree on how our military covers or just plain invents things they want the world to know.

        Remember Pat Tilman and the female soldier that was rescued out of Iraq? What was her name?

        Both of those stories that the Bush Military Public Relations team put out were not true – as was found out later.

        Of course, Bush and Gang were trying to recruit all those Americans who wanted to keep America free and yada, yada and more yada.

        But did also notice how many of the family members of Bush and Gang actually went to fight their much-desired war?

  11. A moving story just two easy-to-read pages long. We really shouldn’t ever give up on a person who is willing to learn, willing to accept, willing to unlearn, willing to love.

    Rethinking His Religion

    –snip —

    He grew up in the South, in a setting so homogeneous and a family so untroubled that, he said, he had no cause to question his parents’ religious convictions, which became his. He said that college gave him cause, starting with me. Sometime during freshman year, he figured out that I was gay, and yet I didn’t conform to his prior belief that homosexuals were “deserving of pity for their mental illness.” I seemed to him sane and sound.

    He said that we talked about this once — I only half recall it — and that the exchange was partly why he remembered me two decades later.

    Questioning his church’s position on homosexuality made him question more. He read the Bible “front to back and took notes of everything I liked and didn’t like,” he said.

    “There’s a lot of wisdom there,” he added, “but it’s a real mistake not to think about it critically.”

    He also read books on church history and, he said, “was appalled at the behavior of the church while it presumed to teach all of us moral behavior.” How often had it pushed back at important science? Vilified important thinkers?

    • indypendent

      I always have to shake my head when I hear some Fundie Evangelical Christian claim that Christians have never been terrorists.

      Oh, wonder what the Salem witch hunt about?

      Or the Spanish Inquisition?

      Or the Crusades?

      Or the guy that killed Dr. Tiller in his own church?

      Terrorism – yeah, I think all the above fits in that category.

      Religion is man-made but Faith is sprititual. Never confuse the two.

  12. After more than 60 years together, Jimmy Carter has announced himself at odds with the Southern Baptist Church — and he’s decided it’s time they go their separate ways. The former president called the decision “unavoidable” after church leaders prohibited women from being ordained and insisted women be “subservient to their husbands.”

    President Carter said:

    At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.

    The truth is that male religious leaders have had — and still have — an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world.

    • indypendent

      I have always respected and admired President Jimmy Carter. I think Carter was too good for the job of president – he did not possess the political ‘go for the jugular’ attitude that Reagan and his Gang used.

      What always frustrates me is how Reagan used Jerry Falwell against President Carter. But, then again, Jerry Falwell was the original Rabid Religiouis Right – aka Fundie.

      To think, that these so-called Fundie Christians went rabid over Jimmy Carter and applauded wildly for the Reagan who then turned around and gave weapons to the very same Iran that the same Republicans want to go to war with today.

      Does any of this makes sense?

      I remember Falwell and Gang said some pretty low stuff about Carter back in those days. But then, look at the same RRRR’s are saying the same low stuff about Obama – ie he’s not a ‘real’ Christian….blah, blah and more blah….

      History is repeating itself – Oh God, I hope not. It’s time to break this damn chain of war-thirsty, war mongering self-professing ‘real’ Christians.

  13. indypendent

    Now Santorum seems to be bragging about using profane language with that reporter. In fact, he is even fundraising on that very fact that he did curse out this NYT reporters.

    Wow – I wonder if Jesus is high-fiving everyone in Heaven as he watches his boy Ricky spread the good news – Ricky is spreading something – that’s for sure.

    • Making excuses for his incivility instead of behaving in a civil manner. Didn’t PrairiePond tell us last week that being a republican means never having to say you’re sorry?

    • indypendent

      These four reasons are exactly why Republicans join this party. These people seem to thrive on all this – especially when those ‘other people’ have to do the actual fighting in the wars. When the money goes to all the ‘right’ people. When guns are as easy to get as bubblegum. And when pollution is no longer regulated – because, after all, these ‘right’ people are not the ones having to live close by to those pollution-belching smoke stacks.

      Besides – Republicans have GOD on their side – didn’t you get the memo?

  14. indypendent

    As I commented above – our military sometimes likes to invent stories – and I mentioned Pat Tilman and could not remember the girl’s name – well I found this article.

    Her name is Jessica Lynch and this article is about when she testified before Congress to set the record straight.

    I also commented above how diplomacy only works with all parties act honorably – isn’t our military telling the truth, at all times, a requirement for acting honorably?

  15. R.D. Liebst

    I guess the surest way of knowing you need a new mower is when it burst into flames while trying to start it. Luckly I still had several buckets of water standing around so the flames were short lived. But boy ole boy is was quite exciting for a couple of minutes>

    • Not the right kind of excitement, Rick!

      Reminds me of what hubby said yesterday towards the end of the KU game. He looked at me and said, “I hope all the neighbors think all that noise you’re making is because we’re having sex.” 🙂

      • prairie pond


        You BOTH crack me up. Rick, I can relate to the mower problems and I think Fnord can as well. Mowing used to be such a joy. Now? It’s almost my most dreaded task. Ranks right up there with cleaning the chicken house and weeding the damn garden.

        And Fnord? I thought I heard some noise all the way out in western Kansas.

      • indypendent

        I felt a few earth shakes going on last night – hmmmm….. LOL

    • wicked

      Well, Rick, you definitely beat us on the mower trick today. All we got was a snake that lost his/her tail…about 10 inches of it. A tip of the hat to ya, and a reminder to BE CAREFUL OUT THERE. 😉

  16. prairie pond

    This fine lady has a righteous rant about the Oklahoma Lawmakers up on Crooks and Liars. I had heard of her before, and if you like what she says on C&L, you are going to love this one to “The Oklahoma Progressives.”

  17. prairie pond

    …and just so you don’t have to leave the page, here is her MOST righteous rant about The Oklahoma Lawmakers.”

  18. indypendent

    Never let it be said that the true Politician – Rick Santorum – let a good photo-op go by without taking full advantage.

    I heard this while driving home from the store just now . Santorum actually said that he is in favor of the free market health care – not government health care.

    Well – Ricky – if that is true, and you sure would not lie, would you? – THEN Ricky needs to be telling all those Tea Party Republicans that their Medicare is going out the window.

    After all – that is government health care.

    • indypendent

      Funny thing – Santorum professes to hate govenrment health care but yet he made quite a bit of money from his connection to a certain healthcare services corporation – who, btw, has had troubles with fraud allegations.

      And, not to be outdone by Ricky, it appears Romney has his own share of connections to healthcare services that have had their own troubles with fraud allegations over – Medicare and Medicaid. Let’s see – government runs both of these programs – don’t they?

      I guess the govenrment money is okay – as long as it goes to the ‘right’ people?

  19. indypendent

    Now this is just plain bizarre………. But, you know, this pastor has done this before – twice – and nobody has complained before now?

    If that was my kid – I know one pastor, an off-duty police officer and retired Army Captain that would be walking funny for a few weeks.

    • indypendent

      And the reason given for this bizarre event is so lame – to show what Christian missionaries go through every day?

      Well – the best way to not have that happen is for these Christians to keep their butts home and not go into foreign lands – uninvited.

  20. OK, I said I was gonna be patient and wait until I heard the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare this summer. But, just like everyone else I’m wondering about the SCOTUS ruling and the ramifications.

    I haven’t trusted the Supreme Court since they allowed that highest court to weigh in and become involved in deciding a presidential election. At that point I lost my innocence, or maybe I should say my naivety. I don’t expect this decision to be one which follows law as much as political persuasion.

    But, it does highlight to me the importance of SCOTUS nominations, and other federal judges, by a president. I’ve been harping on this for months and I am fully aware you’re all sick of hearing me. Fact is that anyone who knows me long enough is going to come to the day where they wish I would just shut up. Fact of knowing me.

    I’m back harping. A vote for president can have a dramatic effect on the judicial branch of government. And federal judges keep their seats for yearsandyears. They even decide when to retire based on which ‘side’ holds the office of president. So don’t forget this important consideration! Don’t let anyone you know forget.

    OK, I’ll shut up now.

    for a little while anyway…

    • indypendent

      SCOTUS nominations are the most important thing a president does – IMHO.

      I hope the Supreme Court’s decision is not another 5-4 decision. This will just simply fuel more fire.

      It would be better if it was at least 6-3 – but didn’t Judge Sotamayor (sp?) recuse herself from this health care case?

      • No, although there were calls for both Sotomayor and Thomas to recuse themselves, all nine justices are hearing this case.

  21. One more comment. 🙂

    This October I go on government-controlled and subsidized healthcare! Yippee!!!

    I sincerely hope it’s still available and as good as it is today when all of you are my age! I have no problem with government controlling health care! I think if you ask most people on Medicare they’ll say exactly the same thing!

    • indypendent

      You know, the ironic thing is that it appears to be majority of those people of Medicare age that are in the casino plugging in $100 bills while I am playing the penny machines (and I think I am risking alot when I hit the 50 cents button.

      I’ve often wondered how many of these people are Tea Party Republicans that profess to hate government-run healthcare?

      If our tax dollars were not subsidizing their health care and their drugs – could they afford to be at the casino playing $100 bills?

      • I wonder how many on Medicare are against government controlled healthcare too! [eye roll] I believe a bunch have bought what Fox “News” tells them hook line and sinker. It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious., and so pathetic that adults could be so ill informed.

        I’ve heard some tell you they paid into this program their whole lives! No, they didn’t.

        Medicare didn’t even begin until 1966 and was mostly hospital insurance at that point. It’s evolved to what it is today. Even those young enough to have had Medicare tax taken — 1.45% — from every penny they earn won’t pay into the system what the average Senior uses at today’s costs. Even adding the employer match doesn’t save enough over a lifetime of employment to pay for the costs of health care!

        It is government subsidized! And it is government controlled!

      • indypendent

        And don’t forget – last time I heard, the fastest-growing population is 85 yrs and up.

        Think about this fact – how many of these people have used way more money than they ever paid into Medicare?

        Besides that – Medicare is not like Social Security – where there is an account with your name on it with your contributions being added to the running totals.

        Rather, Medicare is a tax that is paid by employees in order to provide healthcare to seniors and and the disabled (I think this is the same program – correct?)

        Medicare is nothing more than a taxpayer-subsidized health care system that all seniors qualify for once they reach age 65 – even the wealthy 1% get to use Medicare – and we know they have not paid their fair share of taxes….


      • indypendent

        Here’s a perfect example – my grandmother (bless her heart) is 98 yrs old. She has been on Medicare since age 65. This woman never worked at a paying-job in all her life. Her husband died at age 64 – and that was in 1971 – so just how much total money has been spent on my grandmother’s health care through Medicare – and there is no way my grandpa paid that much Medicare tax on his wages before he died.

        My grandpa never got to use Medicare benefits – but his wife has certainly used up his share, her share and a bunch of other shares – IMHO.

        I love my grandma dearly but in reality – she is the type of patient that needs government health care. Where would she be if she did not have it?

      • I’m for Medicare for all!

        I’ve looked forward to having government controlled and subsidized health care for several years! And it’s gonna happen for me this October. I wish it could happen for everyone.

  22. Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon Martin?

    Yeah, sure.

    Zimmerman pursued Trayvon. It is recorded. We can hear his heavy breathing, we can hear his movements. He admitted it! And was told not to do that.

    Lots and lots of recordings of Trayvon yelling for help (does Zimmerman know nothing about voice identification) and the yelling stopped the instant we hear the gunshot.

    And even if there was a scuffle between the two men, does only one of them have the right to stand his ground? If the weapon you have is your fist, your strength, only yourself, you’re not allowed to protect yourself? You have to have a gun to have that right?

    Also, remember there are records showing the time Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend and also the time of each of those 911 calls from neighbors that recorded his yelling for help.

    • indypendent

      I think it is a case of CYA for this police department. I’ve heard other news reports that this is not the first time something suspicious has been done by this police department.

      The sad fact is – the truth will probably never be fully known – because the investigation that night was obviously not very thorough.

      Were there pictures taken of Zimmeran’s face wounds – allegedly done by Trayvon?

      Was the gun confiscated that night and testing done?

      Why wasn’t Zimmerman drug tested like Trayvon’s body was drug tested?

      Bottom line – if Zimmerman had stopped following Trayvon when he was on the phone with 911 and the dispatcher told him to stop following – then there would not be a dead 17-yr-old.

      I keep hearing that Zimmerman claims this was not racially motivated – and that maybe the truth.

      Rather – I do think this killing was on pure adrenaline – and a neighborhood watch guy that perhaps has watched way too many cop shows?

      • A wannabe cop.

        It certainly seems he liked having a gun to me, and getting to use it was something he seems to have looked forward to. In my opinion, people who carry guns around are hoping to have the opportunity to use them. I know those with licenses to carry will argue they are only prepared to do good, to protect themselves and others… I’ve heard it all more times than I wanted to hear it. It still doesn’t ring true to me.

        I’ve known hunters all my life, and target shooters all my life. None of them fall in the category of those who think a gun must be carried on their person to conduct life safely. And they always tell everyone they can make listen about the fact that they ‘carry.’ That’s paranoid behavior to me.

        Now it’s possible I know some who do carry guns and never ever talk about it. Because those who have to advertise they carry are the ones who I think are paranoid.