Thursday, 2/16/12, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

74 responses to “Thursday, 2/16/12, Public Square

  1. I fear that Democrats are going to get complacent while watching the Clown Show at the GOP convention. Do not take for granted that anyone of the current GOP clown candidates could not win in November.

    I would not put anything past the American people (or the Supreme Court to anoint the ‘right’ one) since the election of 2000. Remember that year – we got Baby Bush.

    Everyone needs to get out and vote…..

    The fun part is going to be watching the women unite – and I hope the Catholic Church and their GOP puppets keep up the war on birth control.

    That will be the deciding factor….

    • That Personhood Amendment is gaining steam and coming to a state near you…

      • Freedomwriter

        So in this political trend toward backward thinking, is the next step going to be a requirement that no man may spill his “seed”? If life begins at conception, then those occasional fertilized eggs that make it to the supermarket are really chickens. Literalists are really working themselves into a corner if they are going to continue using the Bible as their guide. There are so many inconsistencies there!

      • Brought to you by THE CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY which is superior to all other theocracies!

        Because the Christians said so!

        THE SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN and THE POPE each have their own ideas about what is superior. In fact, congregants of the local Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Mormon… churches / temples / synagogues also have their own ideas about what is a superior belief.


      • Since Jesus was a Jew, He may question what some hold as truth.

      • Jesus did not proclaim that He was the Messiah (or Chosen One, Annointed One). He did not predict that God would come back and bring all the Christians to Heaven while sending the rest to Hell. He did not say that you couldn’t get into Heaven unless you accepted Him as your personal savior. He did not predict His own death and resurrection. He did not say men could be priests and women could not. He did not pronounce his mother, Mary, was somehow holier than anyone else. These are all words placed on Jesus’ lips by theological writers after His death, and subsequently written into the gospels.

        Men inspired by God.

        Kinda like Perry, Bachmann, Cain (who have I forgotten?) told us they were inspired by God to be president. Is God saying we need more than one president?


      • You bring up a good point – Jesus was a Jew.

        I wonder if the Mormon Church had a proxy baptism for Jesus – because, after all, I don’t think Joseph Smith (the founder of the Mormons) was alive until way after Jesus died.

        As I understand this proxy baptism thing – the reason they do this is so people can get their names into the Mormon Book – in order to get into Heaven.

        So, if Jesus did not have his name in their Book – then wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume (by their logic) that Jesus is NOT in Heaven?

        See what terrible predicaments and corners we paint ourselves in when someone actually thinks through one of these religious beliefs?

        I don’t care what religion you follow but what I do care about is the fact that when your religion offends someone else – then your right to your religion ends at the feet of that person’s right to not be offfended.

        Does that make sense and why is that so hard to understand?

      • Perhaps separation of church and state is THE WAY best followed.

      • If the “pre-born” are to be considered “persons” then they should be considered a dependent on income tax…pre-birth. In fact, I DEMAND that the IRS laws be changed to reflect that.

        Just think, if I learn in February that I’m pregnant and due in July or August, I’ll be able to claim that child when I file my taxes in April. If anything should happen that the pregnancy doesn’t come to term, I’ll still have that deduction.

      • wicked – you bring up an interesting idea….

        and if the pre-born are not given a tax deducttion, then can the pre-born retain a lawyer to sue for discrimination?

  2. An Evening With Award Winning
    Labor Journalist Mike Elk
    Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:00pm
    Wichita State University Rhatigan Student Center
    Room 305 (map)

    Free and Open to the Public

    About Mike Elk

    Investigative journalist,Mike Elk uncovered how Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics for Washington (CREW) was working in conjunction with corporate lobbyists to attack the credibility of pro-student lending reform advocates. Six weeks later, CREW Executive Director Melanie Sloan accepted a job with one of the corporate lobbyists named in the article—Lanny Davis. While covering a lockout at Honeywell uranium facility in Southern Illinois, Elk uncovered how Honeywell cheated the safety tests given to scab replacement workers at a uranium facility causing multiple accidents and releases of toxic gases. Union leaders have cited Elk’s investigative reporting as being crucial to help resolving their year-long lockout.

    Co-writing with Mark Ames, Elk exposed the Koch Brothers tried to coerce 50,000 employees into voting Republican by exploiting a loophole created by Citizens United that allows campaigning in the workplace. Elk won a Sidney Hillman Award for covering how corporations crafted legislation through ALEC to allow for prison labor in the United States to be paid below minimum wage to manufacture goods for large multinational corporations.

    He has appeared as a commentator on MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, NPR and Democracy Now! as well as writing for The Nation, The Atlantic, the American Prospect and worked for filmmaker Michael Moore covering the Wisconsin protests.

  3. Did you hear about this: Seems Wisconsin Gov Scott Walker used the upset stomach excuse to not be there at the Master Lock company tour.

    LMAO – I’m sure he did have an upset stomach to think he would be surrounded by all those union workers who are proving to America that insourcing is a good thing – and that union workplaces are not the Devil Incarnate.

    • I suspect the excuse upset stomach is now another name for filling one’s pants when confronted with the truth?

      I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in Walker’s office while the news coverage of mine and his President Obama toured the Master Lock company.

      I wonder if there was an urgent phone call on the Koch Line?

      • prairie pond

        “I suspect the excuse upset stomach is now another name for filling one’s pants when confronted with the truth?”


        That gets the doozy of the day award!

  4. You know, fnord, we can talk freely about religion and that is the way it should be – guaranteed rights and all.

    But I worked in an office where Ms. Betty Bible was the Office Manager and she made our lives a living Hell if we dared to say anything back to her.

    That is what is wrong with all this religious liberty stuff these Republicans/CAtholics are yammering about.

    Religoius liberty is a two-way street – only those who wish to control everything, thinks the street belongs to only them.

    That Ms. Betty Bible in the office actuallly asked me why I hated Jesus after I told her that she could not tell the employees that ‘this is a Christian office, if you don’t like it, there’s the door’. She actually said that in an office staff meeting.

    To set the scene – this was a health care provider whose practice was half Medicare with some Medicaid in the mix. Not only was this statement out of line due to federal employment laws – but the very fact that we were taking in government funds should have been a big red flag for Betty Bible to STFU.

    She made my life Hell after that until I finally told her where to shove that precious Bible of hers. I worked for the doctor for several years and respected him greatly. He was not in the office when Betty Bible showed her fangs and everybody else had to keep their jobs and were afraid to confront her. I finally went to the doctor out of respect and friendship with him – he had no idea Betty Bible was doing this.

    Betty Bible was soon gone from the premises. But I did not want to return to the office because I went on to something else.

    But I give the doctor credit – he handled it promptly and he was apologetic when he learned of what she was doing.

    I guess the lesson to be learned is – don’t be afraid to confront these Betty Bibles. But, in a workplace situation where you all need your jobs – I know it is a hard thing to do.

    But damn it – I am tired of these Betty Bibles…….

    Oh, did I forgot to mention – this Betty Bible had long hair and a very pretty big hairbow every day . After all, she was – how did she put it? – Glorifying God.

    Yeah, sure Betty, sure……

    • P.S. – The doctor was a devout Catholic. He had a crucifix hanging above his office door. Everybody knew doctor was religoius because he lived his faith for all to see.

      Betty Bible was one of those Evangelical Christians whose mega church was growing by leaps and bounds. Betty Bible did alot of talking but not much living her faith for those to see.

      Alot of talk is just a lot of hot air blowing around…..IMHO

      I’ve seen a few people from that office since my days there. A couple of them actually thanked me for getting rid of Betty Bible – plus, we do have a good laugh at how silly she was..

      I’ve often wondered what happened to Betty Bible. You know the sad part? I cannot even remember this woman’s name – I only know her as Betty Bible.

      And she really thought she was being a witness for her God in that office?

      Yeah, there are good witnesses and then there are bad witnesses……..Guess which category I put her in?

    • Only those who believe the ‘right’ way aren’t evil, bad or hateful because they are doing God’s work, witnessing and saving souls, leading others to righteousness for His name’s sake …

      Like you, I respect each person’s right to choose their personal beliefs and would never think one person’s choice is superior to another’s choice. Isn’t that pretty close to one of the main reasons America was founded?

  5. Conservative Christian Republicans claim they want to free the Muslim women from being demonized – which is why we must go to war with Iran.

    But yet these same people want to demonize American women for using birth control? And we already know how these folks feel about equal pay for women – they are against it.

    We already know how these same folks feel about women being forced to carry a baby to term even in cases of rape and incest.

    So, let’s hear again how these Conservative Christian Republicans are so worried about those Muslim women being mistreated and demonized?

  6. Maybe the women in America should decide to form our own country –

    something akin to those old movies where some tribe made up of entirely women live in the jungle?

    I used to laugh at those old movies….

    But we women could allow some men into our country – as long as they know how to ‘keep their place’ and make themselves useful.

    This is all just for fun………I have been married to the same man for 35 years and I love him dearly.

    Not all men are what we are currently seeing in the Republican presidential campaign…..and their benefactors…..

    Some men – the intelligent and wise ones – know that it takes everyone to make the world go around. No matter what color, what religion, what sex or what sexual preference a person has – it takes everyone to make the world go around.

    • prairie pond

      Sign me up today!

      But can we bring along 617, Clark, and some other good ones?

      I’m sure they will promise to behave….

      • I’ll be getting the sign up sheets ready in the next few days…LOL

        There are good men – you’re right.

        I suspect there are more good men than the neanderthals that seem to yell and scream the loudest.

      • The men I respect don’t want to impose ‘moral values’ on anyone and don’t think that can be called ‘freedom.’

  7. Looks like GM is doing good – in spite of all those Republicans that wanted them to go belly up.

    What’s funny is the fact that Mitt Romney is on videotape calling for the auotmakers to go bankrupt. And NOW expects to win in Michigan?

    Where do they get these guys? LMAO

    Seriously – Obama’s campaign staff needs to go through all these videoclips of all these GOP hopefuls and just let these buffoons speak for themselves.

  8. prairie pond

    Ok, girls, here we go. I got this from DU, just to give credit where credit is due!

    “TO ALL WOMEN FROM THE GOP. You are forbidden to use family planning measures. You cannot have sex outside of marriage and are restricted inside marriage and must get pregnant.

    You make only 78 cents to the dollar versus men. The GOP is against fair pay. They want to end Medicaide, Social Security, Medicare, welfare and many other programs that help women the most. Then if you are expecting you can be discriminated against at work since they hate the law against such actions because it is antibusiness. Now you must submit to involuntary bodily invasion in
    Virginia. They are trying end anti domestic violence laws and stop enforcement. They are determined to enable your abuser. Protect your rapist.

    Any woman in her right mind would never consider voting for the GOP POS’s.

    That’s what you get from the “coat hanger” party.”

  9. Zippy

    I just can’t let this pass. If you research the basis by which the Catholic tribal elders object to birth control, the first thing prominently cited is ::

    Genesis 38:9-10

    New International Version (NIV)
    9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so the LORD put him to death also.

    So, little Johnny, next time you find yourself having those horribly evil thoughts, remember that one foolish act of selfish pleasure could cost you your life!!

    But don’t too much worry about it, Johnny. Just talk with your priest. I’m sure he’ll come up with something in the end to help you..

    • Maybe the tribal elders know that verse, but some are following without question for no better reason than their church said so. They require no further reason and no evidence.

      And, of course, that verse was written by a mere man who was inspired by God — or so he ‘believed’ anyway. Coulda been a tummy ache.

    • Isn’t the real question here why the hell Onan was sleeping with his brother’s wife????

      Those Old Testament people were a strange lot.

  10. prairie pond

    Good one, Zippy!

  11. Isn’t Santorum one of the leading proponents of the false claim that the Obama Administration’s pro-contraception policy violates the First Amendment’s protection of religion? To what extent would he take his interpretation of the First Amendment? (btw, the judiciary exists to protect the First Amendment.) Does each citizen decide for themselves what the First Amendment means and then use their personal arsenal to enforce it?

    Rick Santorum was at a meeting of Texas Tea Party leaders yesterday. When he was asked if the Second Amendment is only for hunting and sports, he replied emphatically, “the Second Amendment is there to protect the First Amendment!”

    • Oh, but wait….. Sharron Angle (remember her from Nevada) – says the 2nd Amendment is for Americans to take back their country by force –

      These folks are always yammering about taking their country back…….who the hell gave these morons permission to take anyone anywhere?

      These morons are just like me and every other American citizen – a Citizen.

      If they don’t like what is going on – they’ve got 3 choices. They can work to change the laws, they can move out of the country or they can just STFU.

    • I just don’t understand any of this. No one is forcing anyone to take contraceptives, only making them available for those who need or want them. THAT’S freedom! They are trying to steal the freedom of choice—-any choice—-from women.

      This war against women needs to stop immediately.

  12. Bruce Bartlett on Where the Right Went Wrong

    Bill Moyers talks with conservative economist Bruce Bartlett, who wrote “the bible” for the Reagan Revolution, worked on domestic policy for the Reagan White House, and served as a top treasury official under the first President Bush.

  13. so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife,

    Zippy posted this comment above and I just have to point something out……isn’t sleeping with your brother’s wife adultery? And obviously this was done as a practice – because it says ‘whenever’ which implies more than once…

    And isn’t adultery one of the top Ten NO-NO’s in those Ten Commandments?

    So, if the church leaders are so worried about spilling semen and not impregnating the first egg it sees – isn’t the act of adultery also a sin that needs to be pointed out in this little screnario?

    I would love to see these priests and mega church preachers call out all the adulterers in their midst of ‘godly and ‘morally superior’ folks.

    I know, I know….we’ve seen many examples of adulterers in the so-called Religious Right Republicans – but they are merely poor little sinners that lost their way

    But, according to the Top Ten Rules – adultery is a biggie……..

    No mention of spilling semen in that Top Ten list – is there?

    • Also – no mention of homosexuality being a sin in that Top Ten List – huh?

    • prairie pond

      Heh, Indy. If you go back and read a couple of verses before this, his brother was killed by god for being evil, (no kidding) and, as commanded by their law and his father, he was to take his brother’s widow as his wife. He slept with her, but didn’t want to have children with her, so he “spilled his seed on the ground.”

      Many catholics interpret this as god saying contraception is bad and god will kill you for it.

      No kidding.

      You know I gotta say it.

      Jesus wept!

  14. Here is a listing of state laws regarding contraption coverage in insurance plans – these are state laws.

    So where was the outrage from these Catholics and Republicans when these laws were put into place?

    Let’s not lose sight of the real reason this issue has been brought to the forefront at this time.

    Republicans think they have a winning issue to bring down Obama. And the economy seems to be on the upswing – so Republicans have nothing else to use against Obama – except these social issues.

    That’s the truth – and I am betting the Republicans have the losing hand in this particular game they have chosen to play.

  15. Keep it up Republicans – just keep up the beating of that damn contraception drum and having only men testify in your Congressional hearing….

    These 3 Democrats that walked out today will only be the beginning of the backlash Republicans will feel over this damn contraception nonsense issue.

    Religious Liberty – my ass. Where is my religious liberty to keep some damn church out of my personal business – especially if I found out someone acted as a proxy for my dead relatives. That still irks me…….

    This birth control thing is going to go viral – and it won’t be pretty.

    • I don’t even need birth control and this issue is making me boiling mad……

      Did you happen to hear Rick Santorum when he said it was not right to make a 75-yr-old woman to buy health insurance that covers pregnancy?

      WTF……first of all – that 75-yr-old woman would be on Medicare and if all those erectile dysfunction drugs are paid for Medicare – why not pregnancy?

      That is how ridiculous this argument has come down to……..

    • Cafeteria Insurance? Are they now trying to introduce pick-and-choose insurance to go with their pick-and-choose religions? As you said, indy, women–even single women and those who have no use for it–are expected to pay for insurance that covers ED meds for men.

  16. Read this and tell me again how Fox-loving Republicans have the guts to call themselves non-racists?

  17. This is the rich old white guy who is behind Santorum’s Super Pac. I missed the Andrea Mitchell show today (dang it) – it looks like I missed the opportunity to see firsthand how a moron proves himself to be a moron…

    That Bayer Aspirin joke was a doozy – I wonder if people got what he was really saying? – that old attitude that if a woman gets pregnant, it’s her fault. And not one word about the man….huh?

    These neanderthals have got to be shown the EXIT door…… I’ll be happy to sweep up the dirt dust from their knuckles dragging on the way out…

    • I heard a woman respond to his solution of women keeping an aspirin between the knees. She suggested he might want to put an aspirin between his lips next time he wanted to talk about women.

      It’s 2012.

      I feel like we’ve stepped back in time since this discussion began.

      • I just considered the source – I really think he is one of those rich old white males who think they are being ever so clever; when in reality, all they do is to make themselves the butt of every joke for the next week.

      • It’s so insulting, it’s so demeaning, it’s so controlling, it’s so…

        No! Men don’t get to make different sexual decisions than women make, and there aren’t two different sets of conduct or responsibility. Yes, women become pregnant, but they don’t get there alone.

        He can make that statement if he is celibate.

  18. Italy to End Tax Breaks on Church Enterprises, Monti Says

    Prime Minister Mario Monti plans an amendment to an Italian law that will force the Catholic Church to pay taxes on all its commercial properties. Italy would gain an additional 100 million euros ($130 million)

  19. Wow – just when I think I’ve seen and heard it all……

    I wonder if this rep knows that anytime a man sticks his pencil into an unknown hole there is also a danger?

    • Then men shouldn’t take the pill. 😉

      Or maybe they should take responsibility for pregnancy. Their lack of doing this is one of the things that made the pill so popular…to MEN. They’ve been leaving the responsibility up to women at every turn in the annals of time.

      Where’s the male contraceptive? Most men won’t have anything to do with something like that. It isn’t “manly!” That’s because they aren’t the ones who, for 9 months, are the host to what is technically a parasite. (No offense to babies or children, but it’s the truth.) They aren’t the (majority) ones who cares for that child after the birth, making sure the child is fed, , cleaned, clothed, shod, educated, and taught morals. They aren’t the ones who get the short end of the stick when it comes to morality, either. They’ll expect their women and teach their female children to keep their legs together, yet go out and screw anything that will let them.

      All the above are generalizations, and there are men who are responsible. However, it isn’t the majority, and it should be.

      Sorry. Let me climb down off my soapbox and take it home with me, head hanging in shame. NOT

      (Hmm, I wonder how many people I can tick off by blogging about this…)

      • One method of male contraception that is covered in the Affordable Care Act is vasectomy. There is no debate about it being covered.

        After all, men can be trusted to make their own reproductive choices.

      • prairie pond

        YOU GO, WICKED!

      • “Until vasectomy and Viagra are debated as being morally objectionable before congress and viewed as an attack on religious freedom, I will take today’s testimony before congress as nothing more than an attack on woman’s rights. Corporations are people…women on the other hand, not so much.”

        I can’t find who to credit for this quote. I agree completely and wish I could give proper credit.

  20. Did you hear that Sarah Palin gave permission to be drafted at a brokered convention?


    How many months ago did I predict this?