Monday, 11/21/11, Public Square

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Filed under The Public Square

60 responses to “Monday, 11/21/11, Public Square

    • I often wonder how many abortions these men have paid for.

    • If the republicans want to really get women fired up and out to the polls in large numbers they should definitely make Gingrich their nominee.

      • Oh, fnord, thank you for lifting my cloud this a.m. πŸ™‚

      • One BIG problem. I know of far too many conservative women that back this, and that scares me. We’re going to need more than just women fired up about this.

        If they’re going to do this I want them to go a step further and determine that every sperm is potential life and not to be wasted! Wet dreams should be legally prosecutable. (spell check doesn’t like my word)

    • Although, on second thought, any of those vying for the republican nomination will accomplish the same.

      I do like the Romney who is for choice for women, believes in man’s involvement in global climate change and understands that America is a nation of immigrants. We just never know which Romney will show up!

  1. Univ. of Calif., Davis police chief now on leave

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) β€” The president of the University of California system said he was “appalled” at images of protesters being doused with pepper spray and plans an assessment of law enforcement procedures on all 10 campuses, as two police officers and the police chief were placed on administrative leave.

    “Free speech is part of the DNA of this university, and non-violent protest has long been central to our history,” UC President Mark G. Yudof said in a statement Sunday in response to the spraying of students sitting passively at UC Davis. “It is a value we must protect with vigilance.”

    Yudof said it was not his intention to “micromanage our campus police forces,” but he said all 10 chancellors would convene soon for a discussion “about how to ensure proportional law enforcement response to non-violent protest.”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jKvf7nP1OnRlnopsb9mXt9MOb7KQ?docId=4fc70a7b680c40a0bac68efe25c00159

    • Score another one for the little guy!

      β€œFree speech is part of the DNA of this university, and non-violent protest has long been central to our history,”

      No shit? LOL

      The ball has been passed to the next generation, and it seems they know how to dribble and shoot. πŸ˜‰

      • I hope they also have learned a few volleyball moves – ie: to spike the ball.

        Don’t you find it ironic that Republicans profess to be love democracy but yet several of these Republican presidential candidates have come out in demonization of the OWS protesters and even the Arab Spring protesters.

        It makes one wonder if these Republicans would prefer to keep certain dictators in power.

        Well, on second thought, George W. Bush did send Condi Rice to sweet talk Gaddafi in 2005. And then it was made public knowledge after his death that Gaddafi had a scrapbook of Condi pictures.

        This meddling done in the name of America (Americans don’t do the meddling – their elected officials do the meddling) are in some part responsible for the current nonsense crap we are in today.

        On this issue – I have to give Obama kudos. This is a president that understands how to take out those who actually have/or threatened us – such as Bin laden & Gaddafi.

        In both cases – no American was lost in killing Bin Laden or Gaddafi.

        But, alas, I’m sure that is why Republicans hate Obama for these successes – Obama did not give certain ‘right’ contractors those no-bid contracts as their golden ticket to the US taxpayers trough.

        It’s time to listen to Dwight Eisenhower and greatly reduce the power of the military industrial complex beast.

        A vote for any Republican in 2012 is a vote for the Iran War. Spread the news……

      • I’ll second your 100% on agreement with Ron Paul on this issue, indy. Only a fool would disagree. Seems there’s a lot of those running for office.

  2. I very well may lose friends this holiday season. They keep posting things that are a part of some fairy tale world made up by bible thumpers and calling it tradition. They carry on about Christmas trees as if Christ decorated one on his birthday. “…references to decorated trees in America before about the middle of the 19th century are very rare.” I think that Americans have a very poor sense of history. Here’s the latest post and my response:

    I’m inviting all my Facebook family and friends to join me in returning to the traditional greeting of “MERRY CHRISTMAS” instead of the politically correct “Happy Holidays”!! If you agree with me, please re-post this message…..MERRY CHRISTMAS! We need Christ back into our lives
    GOD IS WELCOME IN MY HOUSE。* 。
    Β° 。 Β° Λ›ΛšΛ› * _Ξ ____*。*˚
    ˚ Λ› β€’Λ›β€’Λš */________/~οΌΌγ€‚Λš ˚ Λ›
    ˚ Λ› β€’Λ›β€’ ˚ | η”°η”° ο½œι–€ο½œ β€’
    If God is also welcome in your House repost this!!!

    LS: My greetings have nothing to do with poitical correctness. To my Jewish friends, I greet them with Happy Holidays and they in return wish me a Merry Christmas. Those of my non-Christian friends I wish them a Happy Winter Solstice. There were winter celebrations long before Christ and, as a matter of fact, the Catholic church Christianized the Winter Solstice and it’s accompanying traditions to celebrate Christ’s birth. It is believed that He was actually born in the summer.

    I had wanted to add more, but really am not trying to piss my friends off. Here are some further thoughts on the subject..
    Insisting that we return to traditional greetings will depend on what tradition you belong to and insisting that we all observe a “Merry Christmas” is rather selfish and intolerant. The “Happy Holidays” greeting encompasses not only Christmas but New Year’s and does not alienate those of other beliefs. I could care less about political correctness but I do care about including ALL my friends and it irritates me that anyone would think I was being unChristian by doing so.

    • I don’t see the big deal about saying Happy Holidays to people.

      The phrase – Holidays – implies there is more than one day – Christmas and New Years.

      I know I will probably tick off at least one person on this blog but I never heard any of this nonsense about any War on Christmas until these damn Evangelical Christians increased their political power in the Republican Party.

      I suspect these people are the ones who fear everything – so in order to keep their tight-fisted control, these folks want to start a war over the issue of how people greet others on holidays.

      Geesh,…….just get a life, would you Evangelical Christians….

      BTW – if these folks are an example of what Heaven will be like – I don’t want to go….

    • I have several FB friends from high school who I decided to simply “hide.” I don’t see their posts, so I don’t have to deal with their political and religious bigotry. I’ve come close to hiding others, but I have a feeling that all but three or four would be hidden if I don’t practice some moderation. LOL

      I believe that if people want to wish me a Merry Christmas, it’s okay. They are celebrating their holiday. However, they should be broad-minded enough to accept a Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings in reply. And if I’m really feeling wicked, I’ll answer with, “And a blessed Solstice to you, too.” πŸ˜‰

      I’ve stopped sending Christmas cards. I’m sure friends and relatives would faint dead away if they received one from me. But when I did buy cards and even sometimes send, they bore Seasons Greetings. Part of the reason was that my editor at that time was Jewish. Still is, and I’m sure she’s accustomed to hearing Merry Christmas and thinks very little about it. My former doctor is Jewish and has Christmas decorations on the windows and inside the clinic. It seems everyone is tolerant of the faiths and beliefs from others…except Christians. Not all, of course, but the number are growing. Considering their Christmas Traditions and most of their other holidays were stolen from other beliefs, they really should sit down, think of Jesus, and shut up.

    • Moonshadow, here are some links that can be shared.

      http://www.religioustolerance.org/var_rel.htm
      This lists many of the different religions in the world, even non-religions, and gives history of each. Very interesting. It’s Canadian.

      http://landscaping.about.com/cs/winterlandscaping1/a/christmas_trees.htm
      A little About.com article about the history of the Christmas tree.

      http://www.history.com/topics/christmas
      The History Channel’s history of Christmas.

    • I have learned to control my need to make any response. I learned that when I first began blogging. My beliefs are mine, another person holds their own and we’re highly unlikely to change any opinions with words that might be taken as insulting for no better reason than they aren’t in agreement. We don’t know how the words we say will be taken and the person hearing those words can’t know exactly how we meant them. Last thing I ever want to do is make a person feel bad or insulted! I think it’s good we’re all so unique! I celebrate diversity. I learn from diversity!

      I feel uncomfortable with people who think there’s only one way to look at any situation, only one ‘correct’ way to feel or think. So they’ll probably not become my close friends or a person I really enjoy communicating with, but they often are my teachers. It’s only through evaluating a differing opinion that I turn mine around in my head to examine it, and make sure I’ve included all the information available in forming it. I don’t learn if I don’t listen to ideas in opposition to those I already know.

      Am I always successful? No. Actually, hell no. I’m too human, too emotional, too reactive. But I get better at listening every day I practice it! The more I listen, the more likely I am to think before I speak.

      I don’t think your friend actually wants to understand or to respect those of differing faiths. Sounds like she may have decided there is only one ‘correct’ way. And it’s right and good that she found the ‘correct’ way for her! Now all she needs to learn is each individual has the same rights as she allows herself. She’ll have to learn on her own, if she ever does, and I think maybe the best way to help is by example. Anything that even hints of confrontation won’t be helpful. It’s how your friend accepts it, and not how you offered it that defines the words said. We don’t usually put any stock in an opinion that comes from someone we think insulted us.

      • Sometimes I think people that repost things like this Christian message are motivated by ‘if I don’t repost it, then others will think I am not a Christian – therefore, I hate God and Jesus’.

        I remember working for a supervisor that was VERY dogmatic about referring to the medical office as a Christian workplace and if you don’t like that, there is the door. This supervisor actually said that in an all-staff meeting.

        Suffice to say, I told her she was wrong – both legally and morally (IMHO) – and that was when she started the war on me as a Jesus Hater. It’s very hard to live through an experience like that – and even harder to forget the experience.

        So, when someone forwards me one of these Christian holier-than-thou messages (and they do all seem to come from my Evangelical Christian friends/family) – I just assume that they only forwarded it because they want to ‘belong to the majority’ and I just let it be.

      • fnord, you should teach me how to attain that calm, reasonable mind. πŸ™‚

      • wicked, you’re the person who taught me!

        Remember the days at the place we first blogged together when the multi-nic female had her fangs and claws out all the time? I was her main target. You and I would email back and forth what we’d like to post while encouraging one another to remain calm, cool, collected and never lower ourselves to her level. You taught me not to dignify her posts with so much as an acknowledgment she was present.

        Eventually she would change her nic but was never able to be anything different and everyone always recognized her. Then she would lie some more about being brand new… She never did leave any of her sordid past behind her.

        Those were the days when I practiced often. πŸ˜‰

      • I’m speechless. LOL

        Maybe I should re-learn with you teaching me, because I’ve created a bad habit of not remaining detached. I do remember the days when I would type a reply in Notepad, then feel better and never have to post it anywhere. I should go back to that. πŸ˜‰

        Actually, there are times when I do keep my mouth shut—or my fingers off the keyboard. I know, it’s amazing. πŸ™‚

    • Freebird1971

      I try to make the greeting fit the person.

  3. Has everyone seen this post by Margaret Flowers?

    Occupy Movement tells MoveOn: Back Off!
    http://october2011.org/blogs/margaret-flowers/occupy-movement-tells-moveon-back

    There is one part of this that I take issue with:

    “MoveOn did this again in 2009 when it refused to consider single payer health care even though it is supported by a supermajority of people in the US and the majority of physicians. Instead, MoveOn supported what the Democrats wanted and assisted in the passage of legislation that continues to leave tens of millions either uninsured or unable to afford health care.”

    What the Democrats wanted? I don’t think that’s what the Dems wanted, was it? Weren’t they back in a corner and the only way they could get anything to pass was to eliminate the single payer plan?

    • IIRC, single payer wasn’t on the table long enough to even sneeze at, much less discuss. It was removed almost immediately. My guess is that a big enough majority of Dems didn’t want to back it. That’s just a gut feeling from memory, coupled with the voting history afterward.

      Ms. Flowers may be correct. I can’t honestly say she isn’t, but that works both ways.

    • I think most people don’t understand single payer. Maybe saying Medicare for all makes it a tiny bit more understandable. Because it isn’t something anyone gets for nothing, it’s something available at an affordable cost. There are people who will refuse to listen. Their minds are made up and they don’t want to hear anything different than what they’ve chosen to believe.

      • You maybe right. There are so many different types of insurance – single payer sounds like just another technical term to most people.

        In reality, do people really care how their insurance is labeled as long as they are able to afford the premiums and the insurance actually pays what they say they will pay?

        I tell all my Republican friends that hate health care reform one thing – if these for-profit health insurance companies would have treated everyone fair and offered affordable insurance coverage – there would have been no need for health care reform legislation.

    • Robert

      I saw some program that mentioned, if you listen to fox network, your no more informed than somebody who doesn’t read or listen to the news. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve heard say, the only truthful new is on fox tv. The sad thing is all the misinformation they get, forms their thought on the issues. I was all for the single pay or medicare for all when Obama was trying to get healthcare for all, but about 6 bluedog dems., who are really republicans kept single pay from every being brought up.The republican filibuster and the death panel nonsense was all the talk on fox network. I hope the Occupy movement will get people to take another look at whats going on in this country. I believe the days of nonprofit hospitals should come back. Hospitals that send as much profit as possible to wall street could be the reason 50 million people don’t have healthcare.

      • Thanks for the memory jog, Robert. You’re right. It was those bluedog dems that screwed the pooch. (Nice little analogy there, I think. πŸ™‚ )

  4. Color me shocked…….Pay close attention to the lawsuit about those employee retirement funds – that is very interesting due to the fact that all these Republicans want to privatize everything and give these corporations even more control….

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/herman-cain-aquila-gas-utility_n_1104860.html

  5. Someone posted this on Spacebook:

    • Sad little people. If one of my FB friends posted that, they’d be hidden, at the very least, if not totally dumped. I wouldn’t have stood for it during Dubya’s terms, either.

    • 2 hours?! This goes on for 2 hours? OMG! I certainly don’t have time to sit through this mish mash of outtakes strung together to create this conspiracy theory illusion. I agree with wicked, sad little people.

    • I got through a minute and a half. I don’t even know what if anything the message was. I wasn’t patient enough to continue listening.

    • Of course there is no history before Obama became president. The country was obviously part of a huge void, where there was no movement, no sound, no air, no nothing. Obama, alone, is to blame for everything that has ever and will ever happen.

  6. I heard (or read) some place the Occupy Memphis and the Tea Party from that same area had gotten together and were finding areas of agreement. Anyone else hear about this? That would be progress! I’ll go see if I can find anything. I hope so, and I hope it happens in lots and lots of other places!

    • Actually – the original Tea Party does have some agreement with the OWS Movement.

      The Wall Street bailouts were opposed by the original Tea Party.
      Corporations’ influence was opposed by the original Tea Party.
      Corporate-sponsored politicians were opposed by the original Tea Party.

      But, we all know who brought the Trojan Horse to the original Tea Party , don’t we? From that point, the current Tea Party are nothing more than lackeys for the corrupt Republican politicians that the original Tea Party had sworn to kick out.

      The corporate brothers and their BFF Dick Armey (a long time politician) are the ones that are pulling the strings to the current Tea Party.

      I have read of where the original Tea Party people are upset with the Tea Party Express hijacking – and they don’t like it that their name has been smeared.

    • It’s something to keep an eye, for sure. Me? I don’t trust anyone these days.

  7. Dates back to last July so some if it’s history, but there is still some value in listening to all information.

  8. Another interesting thing I heard pertained to the reported rapes that have happened at various “Occupy” locations. They have happened, but not in any larger numbers than rape happens in any segment of our communities, our world. There are rapists in most every neighborhood, group, recently we heard accusations of a rapist in the shower room at Penn State. So it’s part of the demographic of any group. Same with thieves. Same with…

    Keep the conversation in proper perspective, don’t allow the exaggerations to go by without challenge and we all just may find common ground more easily.

    • I think you make a good point. One of the things that impressed me about the NYC OWS protesters is the way they set up their own community – complete with a library, a health care center, food center, etc.

      But, hey, who knows if those rapists came from outside the OWS movement?

      Maybe one of those holier-than-thou types that like to blend in with the sheeple got into the group? I wonder what the percentage of the holier-than-thou types that get caught with all their aggressive sexual behavior is when compared to the general population?

  9. If these Evangelical Christian Republicans really wanted to support a good Christian, family values candidate – they should only look at the current occupant in the White House.

    But, I’m sure these folks are just like their beloved leader Jerry Falwell back in 1980 when Falwell led his Moral Majority Evangelicals into an all-out demonization of President Jimmy Carter.

    Jimmy Carter – IMHO – is the same example of a good Christian, family values person.

    Ah, but no, the current Evangelicals seem to prefer the current GOP circus clowns whose baggage even has baggage.

    Surely, Jesus is looking around and wondering WTF…….

  10. Middle-Class Jobs Disappearing As Workforce Shifts To High-Skill, Low-Skill: Study

    I know we already know most of the data in this article, but what made me stop in my tracks was one of the comments made. One sentence that said the disappearance of the middle class is what happens prior to becoming a third world country.

    If you’ve never been to the real Mexico, not the cities just over the border, not the tourist cities, but deep into Mexico where people live their lives without a bunch of foreigners around, you’ve never seen what a two-class country is like. Fancy houses and cars for the wealthy (who are, admittedly, fewer) and one to two-room homes with dirt floors for the rest. I’m not kidding. I’ve seen it. I have photos. I watched a woman sweep her dirt floor. Where we stayed–a solid building with a floor and working bathroom–there was no electricity, no refrigeration. And this is just Mexico! Not even a third world country.

    • From a pure economical standpoint – wouldn’t you think the 1% would be smart enough to know they NEED the middle class working Americans?’

      After all, the 1% would not be near so wealthy if they did not have the US taxpayers trough to gorge themselves into oblivion.

      • They have so much money I doubt they are exposed to reality very often. Today they make waaaay more money on capital gains — the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a lower price — than they would risking it on creating jobs. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. The wealthiest don’t need to actually do anything more than manage their money.

        (from the link) The top 0.1%– about 315,000 individuals out of 315 million– are making about half of all capital gains on the sale of shares or property after 1 year; and these capital gains make up 60% of the income made by the Forbes 400.

        http://news.yahoo.com/top-0-1-nation-earn-half-capital-gains-172647859.html

    • Robert

      A friend, who once a yr, along with others donates time and money to build a home for a family in Mexico said pretty much the same thing as you said about people back in the interior. For electricity they throw long jumper wires up on the lines and when the electric company takes the jumpers down they just throw them back again once the utility worker leave.

      • I was there 43 years ago, but I doubt some of those things have changed. I’d seen poverty before. I traveled all over the U.S. with my parents a lot growing up. But nothing was like what I saw there. We stayed on a garlic farm that was a school (for boys) during the spring, fall, and winter. We were there for about a week. The adults went into the very small nearby town and bought food, daily, because there was no way to keep anything fresh. I remember one of the women making cottage cheese when the milk soured. I have tons of memories, mostly good, of that trip. There were 21 of us from all over Kansas. 18 girls and 3 boys. LOL Church sponsored.

        I wish I could find the slides (photos) of that trip. Maybe I could find out the name of that little town. LOL The nearest big city that I remember was Aguascalientes, which is a couple of hundred miles north of Mexico City, I think. We worked the week we were at the farm, painting one of the buildings both inside and out. It was the dormitory where the boys stayed during the school year. My bff has gone on the trip the year before. All they did was sightsee. LOL

  11. I wonder if this use fo the site was in the planning stages for Facebook?

    My question is – why are prisoners allowed to use Facebook? I guess since FB is free and prisoners have the access to it – then they will use it.

    But if there is harassment, can and/or should there be charges brought against the prisoners?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45391607/ns/technology_and_science-security/

    • …smuggled into prisons and jails…

      I wondered how they accessed the internet when I read your post! I don’t think they are ‘allowed.’ But that is scary!

      • Oops, I only skimmed this article when I posted. But even with smartphones (of which I don’t even have one of those – my cell phone is just for calling).

        Being a dinosaurette who used to run around with Fred, Wilma, Barney and Betty – this new technology is all foreign to me.

    • Prisons and prisoners have internet access that is strictly monitored. At least some do. Not sure if they have to pay anything, but I wouldn’t be surprised, what with prisons being privatized. I heard sometime back that Charlie Manson has his own website. I’ve seen episodes of Criminal Minds where prisoners used email. It probably makes for good incentives.

  12. What a sad story! Those children… I’m without words.

    Megan Phelps-Roper of Westboro Baptist Church: an heir to hate

    Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2011/11/21/2111630/megan-phelps-roper-of-westboro.html#ixzz1eOCBA9io