Wednesday, 4/27/11, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

36 responses to “Wednesday, 4/27/11, Public Square

  1. prairie pond

    OMG. Just OMG. One of the greatest voices of all time is silent.

    Rest in peace, Phoebe.

  2. David B

    You all may be interested in a musical opening tomorrow & running through the weekend at WSU:
    Time to make those weekend theatre plans:
    Assassins by Stephen Sondheim OPENS THURSDAY
    presented by Wichita State University School of Performing Arts/Musical Theatre program
    April 28-30 @ 7:30 pm
    May 1 @ 2:00 pm
    Wilner Auditorium
    For Tickets Call: 316-978-3233
    Tickets: $16 for Gen Public; $14 for Sr. Citizens & Military, $6. for Students

    “Assassins opens in a fairground shooting gallery where, amid flashing lights, human figures trundle past on a conveyor belt. One by one, a collection of misfits enter the stage, where the Proprietor of the game entices them to play, promising that their problems will be solved by killing a President. (“Everybody’s Got the Right”). Leon Czolgosz, John Hinckley, Charles Guiteau, Giuseppe Zangara, Samuel Byck, Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, and Sara Jane Moore are given their guns one by one. John Wilkes Booth enters last. The Proprietor introduces him to the others as their pioneer and begins distributing ammunition. The assassins take aim as “Hail to the Chief” heralds Abraham Lincoln’s offstage arrival. Booth excuses himself, a shot rings out and Booth shouts, “Sic semper tyrannis!”
    Following this we are introduced to the character of The Balladeer, a personification of the American Dream who tells John Wilkes Booth’s story (“The Ballad of Booth”). Booth is writing his rationale for murder in his diary but the Balladeer interjects that Booth’s motives really had more to do with his personal problems. When Booth is wounded by a pursuing Union soldier he throws the Balladeer his diary so that he can tell his story to the world. The Balladeer reads out Booth’s self-justifications as Booth commits suicide. The Balladeer concludes that Booth was a madman whose legacy was butchery and treason and that in trying to destroy Lincoln, Booth elevated him to legend.”
    See more at

    • Assassins is a very interesting musical. While I’ll not be able to attend the WSU production, I’ll encourage anyone who can to attend. I think you will find it interesting, and the music is good.

  3. prairie pond

    And on a happier note, this is the way I prefer to remember Phoebe Snow.

  4. 6176746f6c6c65

    Something to think about, and with which I agree (although a few hiys to pick later, perhaps).

  5. indypendent

    Obama released his detailed birth certificate.

    Of course, Trump is taking the credit for forcing him to do so.

    Personally, I do not think Obama should have released this but on the other hand, it was a politically smart move. Now the birthers still will not believe it and this release will now force each one of the GOP 2012 presidential hopefuls to take sides – and that will be a funny two-stepping dance. For they dare not cross the birthers in the current GOP.

    Since Obama has released this – I want to see each one of the other GOP 2012 candidates’ birth certificates. After all, fair is fair – isn’t it?

    Can I throw in a personal request? I want to see Franklin Graham’s birth certificate AND his baptismal certificate to confirm he is a ‘real’ Christian.

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      I second indy’s requests.

    • wicked

      We could play all kinds of show-me games. You know, those ‘I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.’

      I’d like to see Dubya’s DD214, but I’m convinced he went AWOL and Daddy’s money kept him safe, so there is no document proving he served his 6 years in the ANG.

      • indypendent

        You’re right – we could play those show-me games all day long and never accomplish anything.

        But what angers me the most about this entire nonsense is – Obama is the first president (to my knowledge) that has been subjected to this kind of scrutiny.

        Why? Alot of people assume this is just about racial hatred – but I think it is more than that.

        I think it is more about Obama being a perceived Muslim with a Muslim sounding name.

        And that is what is driving these Religious Right crazees to driving that crazy train down the tracks at a million miles an hour right over the cliff…

        These folks are so ready for that holy war – they will grab any at any desperation straw to make that holy war happen.

        I’m sure this group was especially outraged that Obama’s father’s religion was not stated. IIRC – the article I posted mentioned that fact.

      • indypendent

        P.S. – perhaps this is also the reason Franklin Graham doubts that Obama is a ‘real’ Christian?

        You see – these RR’s are very clever at planting that seed of doubt in their followers’ minds and then just let gossip and innuendos take over and before you know it – a full blown conspiracy is in full bloom.

      • This is from a London new media…

        Listen to what the sister says about their Muslim connection.

      • indypendent

        I must confess, I am rather biased when it comes Obama feeling like he has to prove something to these Republicans simply because he beat their man to get into the White House.

        As I have stated previously, I do not feel Obama should have HAD to release this long-form birth certificate.

        I have told my previous history with Evangelical Christians in college but I have only vaguely mentioned the other side of my reason to distrust self-professing, self-righteous church people .

        I was a devout member of an Evangelical Baptist church when I met my my husband – who was a new pastor in my hometown. The problem was – my husband was the preacher of the American Baptist Church.

        Well, my preacher did not like my husband and he got all the rest of the Evangelicals to call my husband ‘evil’ and the preacher even told me I was marrying the Devil himself.

        Well, we did get married (a very small church wedding – my family and friends refused to come). It was held at a friend’s church – which was Methodist.

        When we arrived back home and the first Sunday at my husband’s church – I was promptly told I was not welcome because I was ‘not one of them’. That sounds familiar to Obama’s trouble – doesn’t it?

        My husband and I tried to continue on with our ministry in his church for 6 months and all Hell broke loose and there was never one moment of peace.

        My previous church people were spreading gossip and my husband’s church people were spreading gossip just as quickly.

        So, you see, I can understand how Obama has felt since this whole birth certificate nonsense has been raised.

        When going through a chaotic mess based on all gossip and innuendos – the truth has very little effect when trying to fight back the mess.

        I see the birtherism issue as just that – based on gossip and innuendos – and that is a terrible thing to have to battle.

        One would think that rational and reasonable thinking would prevail – but it does not work out that way.

        Especially when dealing with a bunch of people who are self-righteous, sanctimonius, pious and self-appointed messengers from God.

        My husband and I simply left the church and we have not looked back once. We left the man-made church – but we did not leave our faith in God.

        So when I go on one of my rants against Evangelicals and fake Christians – please bear with me. I’ve seen the enemy and its’ name is gossip. Gossip coming from self-professed Christians is STILL gossip and it’s a cancer that destroys everything it touches.

        I hope this Obama birtherism issue is resolved once and for all – but from what I’ve been hearing on the news from the known birthers leaders – don’t bet the house on it.

        I want to cry when I hear some of these birthers who profess to be such good Christians carry on like those same church people my husband and I had to deal with – simply because we met, fell in love and wanted to get married and do our ministry in the church.

        I wonder if God likes all this chaotic mess of “US and THEM” crap being done in His name?

        I suspect not – but God does get blamed for alot of crap people do – doesn’t he?

  6. indypendent

    I just watched the video of a reporter informing The Donald that Obama just released his long-form birth certificate and, of course, The Donald took credit for his part in making Obama do this.

    But then a strange thing happened – this same reporter asked The Donald if he wanted to see it – no reply – not even an acknowledgment of the question.

    Do you think The Donald is going to continue harassing Obama for his college transcripts now?

    After all, it was just a few days ago that The Donald has been harping on that issue. The Donald Trump insinuated that Obama would not qualify to get into any Ivy League school – so is this a lightly-veiled innuendo that Obama got special preference through Affirmative Action? So is this now the new calling card for the ‘birther’ crowd?

    I do not expect any of this birtherism nonsense to stop. In fact, I look for it to be get even bigger than before. Fools never learn – but when these fools think they have won the battle, they keep plunging forward with even more foolishness.

    But, sad to say, all these fools are making the GOP implode. And I do think we need a strong two-party system to make our democracy work.

    The only losers in this birtherism nonsense will be the GOP and the entire country – how can we claim to be the United States of America when we have such a deep divide between us?

    And that divide is made even worse due to the so-called Religious Right who are driving this nonsense. It’s times like these I think about what Jesus said on the cross as he was being crucified – Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    But in these Religious Rights’ case – I do think they know what they are doing and they don’t care…..

    • freedomwriter

      You know this birther thing is disgraceful! People like Trump, know it isn’t real, but narcissists don’t really care about what’s right, only what makes them look important. Personally I’d like to hear people start saying, “What? Are you an idiot? Only a moron would dispute the facts! Don’t waste my time on such trivial drivel!” That’s what I’d like to do! Even my tolerance can only stretch so far, but I will keep my cool, however they may not get my attention!

  7. indypendent

    Here’s some good news – Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is on her way to watch the Shuttle launch. May she continue to do well and may her success be one triumph over the evil that was done that horrible day.

    • Zippy

      I hope Gabby does well, and I hope Mark is doing okay too. He’s and Gabby’s family and friends are fielding an impossible situation: She would be the most obvious candidate for Jon Kyl’s seat in the Senate– if she would be ready but, god Gawd, the woman was shot in the head.

      Give her some space. Arizona has not elected a Democrat to the Senate since 1988, and even that guy was part of the “Keating 5.” Sorry, Raul but how about, instead, considering Jeff Flake’s merit, or lack thereof?

      I’d like to see Gabby pull it off, actually, but the real lives of human beings have to matter–even politicians–or there is no point to any of it.

  8. prairie pond

    “but the real lives of human beings have to matter–even politicians–or there is no point to any of it.”

    As usual, Zippy nails it.

    Maybe that’s the real problem. NONE of our “real lives” matter to anyone but us, family if we have them, and the handful of true friends we have in life. All of our real lives seem to be commodities. We’re nothing more than numbers in polls, statistics in customer projections, and conduits for money for the corporations.

    One of my life long friends has become one of the those crazy sovereign citizen guys. He contends, through some convoluted pseudo logic that to the one world government, we are ALL not humans, but nothing more than “commercial transmitting utilities.”

    God, I’d hate it if he was really right after all.

    • indypendent

      I keep hearing the big boogeyman of the ‘one world government’ being used by televangelists and preachers.

      But yet the fastest to a one world goverment is through global corporations running everything?

      But yet these same televangelists and preachers who are warning us against Obama and their perceived Socialist Agenda are all running towards the party that helps the global corporations to take over.

      I wonder if these folks even can think far enough into the future to see how they are helping the so-called one world government to come even faster?

      • I formerly scoffed at the idea of a world-wide corporate conspiracy to operate as a “shadow” government; now, I’m not so sure. Given the growth and reach of multi-nationals, globalization of markets, interdependent economies, etc., the theory may be valid, and I got suckered.

      • indypendent

        What makes us the suckers is when our tax dollars are being given to these very same corporations in t heir quest for total domination.

        I always have to scratch my head and wonder why any Tea Party Republican is so gung ho on giving tax dollars to a global corporation – without any strings attached – but yet are so deadset against investing those same tax dollars for Americans.

        I have nothing against captalism – as long as these people use their own money. Stay our our the taxpayer coffers unless it is going to help Americans.

        When was the first time we’ve seen tax dollars being given to corporations as enticements or assured capital if a certain corporation(s) brings their plant or headquaters to a certain city or state?

        Did that become fashionable during the Reagan years?

      • Sounds like a conspiracy theory that could be exchanged for the current ones if only we had someone to hone the details, intensify the fear factor and get it to go viral.

        I don’t think most Dems are good with conspiracy theories, they (I) just have a hard time getting behind them.

      • Prairie Pond

        Yeah, 617. Remember the first Rollerball? I think that’s what we have today except we still fight real wars that kill real people.

        When he says “one world government” he means the corporatocracy.

        That’s why I’m thinkin’ what a shame it is if he’s right after all! Ya know, because he just may be…

        jesus wept

      • Prairie Pond

        “When was the first time we’ve seen tax dollars being given to corporations as enticements or assured capital if a certain corporation(s) brings their plant or headquaters to a certain city or state?”

        Yes, Indy, it was during the Reagan years that economic development became a giant game of giving taxpayer handouts to businesses.

        Extortion, really.

        Read Thomas Frank’s “What’s the Matter with Kansas.” He gives a great description of how and when “incentives” became extortion.

  9. 6176746f6c6c65

    The use of irb with incentives, etc., began earlier than the Reagan years. Local governments were using them when I returned to Lawrence in 1977. I can’t recall when the IRC was amended to allow industrial development bonds (tax code language for industrial revenue bonds) as federal income tax free investments, but my guess would be around 1972. As to the local (state, county, city) property tax abatements, those were common here in Wichita when I came in 1979.

    • indypendent

      I guess my real problem with all these taxpayer-funded subsidies and/or tax breaks is when the corporations are global and the money is given without any strings attached.

      I support using tax dollars to help any company – local or global – if they are held to the requirement of actually staying in the city or state and hiring Americans.

      I know the world has changed since the 70’s – and perhaps the fact we have more global corporations is the biggest change?

      I am just tired of seeing my taxes go towards corporations who has no interest in keeping America on strong economic ground. And I really tired of hearing their cheerleaders who profess to be haters of taxes but yet have no problem spending our tax dollars to help people who are not in our best interest.

    • Prairie Pond

      Sorry, 671, I didn’t see this when I posted to Indy.

      You are correct that IRB’s were used in the sixties, but IRB’s don’t let the corp off the hook for paying back the bonds. The city just “lends” its
      bonding authority. THAT is very different from just a handout of cash with no binding restrictions, which is what we get now.

      • indypendent

        Like I have said several times – I do not mind helping corporations who are willing to give something in return…

        but I am real tired of seeing these corporations ready at the snap of finger to go to the taxpayer money trough and help themselves and then turn around and lay off hundreds and/or thousands because it is cheaper labor overseas.

        And speakiang of handouts of cash – color me shocked when Gov Brownback held his economic summit with the aviation CEO’s and the most important thing on their list was to give more handouts of cash to those poor struggling aviation CEO’s.

        Poor little babies – they are so desperate they might have to sell one of their million-dollar vacation homes, their private jet or that fancy yacht.

        How do we expect this pampered babies to survive? We’re so mean if we don’t roll over and say how much did you say you wanted?

        IIRC – Wasn’t the card that Beechcraft played in the last union show down was that they were going to take their ball and find another field to play in if the union did not roll over?

        Hmm,. I noticed they are still here in town and guess who was at that economic summit telling Sammie boy the poor aviation CEO’s need more taxpayer money.

        I suspect this is one of those extortion tactics to which PrairiePond was referring to earlier?

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        You’re absolutely correct, PP. I was trying to illustrate just how long this general issue has been around. The current situation is as reprehensible as it gets, but I’d wager that without the initial push for IRBs through the tax code being amended, the rest would not have necessarily occurred. But, what do I know; it may have been even worse (as difficult as that is to contemplate).

  10. indypendent

    Yes, Indy, it was during the Reagan years that economic development became a giant game of giving taxpayer handouts to businesses

    This practice might have been known before the Reagan years – but St. Ronnie perfected it – don’t you think?

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      My slight quarrel with this is that the giveaways had begun at the local level even earlier. At the federal level, the 1982 TRA certainly gave additional momentum to the effort.

  11. indypendent

    Just curious – did Reagan use this practice of taxpayer-funded incentives for corporations while he was Govenor of California?

    I need to do my own research – but just thought I’d throw this out and ask if anyone knows before I started researching. With topic of Reagan – that research could take awhile.