Tuesday, 4/26/11, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

35 responses to “Tuesday, 4/26/11, Public Square

  1. david B

    A brother of a friend is working for ITT in Afghanistan has just informed his family that he has lost all faith in American economic prospects and the lifestyle here and won’t return to the US.

    • wicked

      And so it begins.

      • indypendent

        What angers me about this situation is that it does not have to be this way.

        Somehow in the last few decades, we have managed to create an upside down world where bad is now good.

        Seriously, think about it.

        We’ve seen where self-professed Christians are running for elected office and they are found cheating on their wives – but somehow they are okay because they are only ‘imperfect Christians’.

        We’ve seen Senators going to Libya in 2009 to sit down with Gaddafi and assure him they want to help him get US military equipment and, of course, money. But now these same Senators are calling Gaddafi a dictator? Excuse me – Gaddafi was also the same dictator in 2005 when George w. Bush and Gang lifted sanctions against Libya.

        But now that the press is covering the Libya people fighting for their freedom – McCain has the nerve to call these brave Libya people his heroes – but did you notice in all his praise for these people fighting – he stopped short of the US giving them military equipment? If you will notice, McCain stated that other countries should step in and do that.

        Hmmmm…..do you think it is because McCain and his fellow Senators had already promised US military to Gaddafi in 2009?

        How many times has this same scenario played out? The US has backed several dictators in the Middle East region and then we wonder why there is constant trouble brewing there….

        Our foreign policy is stupid……We preach freedom and democracy but when it comes right down to it – we put our money on the dictators every time.

        May God forgive us…

      • “We’ve seen where self-professed Christians are running for elected office and they are found cheating on their wives – but somehow they are okay because they are only ‘imperfect Christians’.”

        Contrast this to a person of another religion, say Muslim, and make the scenario one where another country parks tanks and instruments of war at the curb of his home. When he attempts to protect his family and his home he is called a terrorist and in fact these same ‘imperfect Christians,’ often call for the entire part of the world this family lives to be made a sea of glass.

        Is this another example of a human and his imperfections or is it an example of loving Christianity? I get confused when I see both sides and can’t quite wrap my mind around the fact that Christians are superior and their religion the peaceful one.

      • indypendent

        fnord – you bring up a very good point.

        I wonder if McCain’s declared Libyan heroes are those you spoke about being Muslim and defending their families and their homeland against a dictor that only 18 months ago (Aug 2009) – McCain was shaking Gaddafi’s hand and talking about helping the dictator get US military equipment? BTW – McCain was accompanied by Joe Lieberman and Lindsay Graham – two more US Senators.

        I don’t know how some of our elected officials can look themselves in the mirror and not throw up.

    • indypendent

      Can I ask if he plans to stay and live in Afghanistan or go somewhere else?

  2. wicked

    We’ve seen where self-professed Christians are running for elected office and they are found cheating on their wives – but somehow they are okay because they are only ‘imperfect Christians’.

    But don’t you seem, indy? If they can do it and excuse it with the ‘we are all imperfect’ change, then everybody can. In this case, forgiving them is giving selves the okay.

    • wicked

      Sorry, ‘seem’ should’ve been ‘see’ but my finger had already hit the Post button when I saw it.

      The mind is slow, but the danged finger is fast!

      • indypendent

        I believe in forgiveness also – but do you think these same self-professing Christians would give Obama a free pass if he was caught cheating on his wife?

      • wicked

        No, no pass for Obama.

        We’re all human and we all make mistakes and do things we later regret. I think therein lies the Conservative problem. When you put yourself out as perfect, you damned well better be perfect. And since we know there is no such thing in nature, what they are is terribly foolish. They all need to learn humility before they need to pretend to show it. Nobody likes those who talk the talk, but can’t walk the walk. Just another case of hypocrisy.

      • indypendent

        I wonder how badly that thorn hurts in the Republicans’ side that Obama has not followed the same path as Bill Clinton when Clinton handed them that silver platter with Monica Lewinksi on it?

        I suspect there have been all kinds of investigative trips taken down each and every path Obama ever took to dig up some dirt on him.

        And yet we don’t hear of anything about Obama – but that dirt sure does show up on the Republicans’ side – doesn’t it?

        That’s gotta hurt……

  3. indypendent

    Did anyone see Lawrence ODonnell last night with Franklin Graham?

    I did not see the entire interview. I saw the part where Franklin Graham was questioning Obama’s being a true Christian because of something Obama said to him personally.

    Hmm, doesn’t the Bible tell us to not judge lest we be judged?

    When Lawrence was using Scripture to ask Franklin Graham questions – Franklin resorted to his usual line of he is only preaching God’s message of salvation to anyone who is willing to hear it.

    Last time I checked, the Bible had alot more to say than just about the salvation message. The Bible has alot to say how Christians should be acting and treating their fellow human beings.

    Funny thing – Franklin never did say anything about those parts.

    Lawrence was giving it to him good – I wish I could have watched the entire interview.

    • indypendent

      I liked and respected Billy Graham – because he did not appear to let politics interfere with his preaching.

      IMHO – Franklin is no where near the man his father was or is today. Franklin seems to take too much delight in dividing everyone into Us and Them.

      IMHO – that is not what a true Christian preacher should be doing.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        Wholeheartedly agree, indy.

      • wicked

        I’ll ditto the agreement.

      • Robert

        Indy, years ago 60 min. did an interview with Billy Graham and his wife at their mansion, somewhere in the mountains. Personally I believe it’s always been about money, but Franklin maybe more on the prodigal side. I hear Franklin talk his idea of christianity and think maybe we have a new religion called corporate christianity.

      • indypendent

        Robert – I am not naive to think Billy Graham was not liking all that money from his preaching.

        But what I was talking about was Billy’s ability to be a Christian leader to all presidents – regardless of their religious affiliation or political parties.

        And that, at least to me, is what is sorely lacking in our Christian Evangelicals (Religious Right Republicans) nowadays.

        I read an article within the past 6 months about how Billy Graham reflectd on his life and career. The point that stuck out in my mind the most was Billy saying that he regrets not being home more with his wife and kids. He also said he would have studied more and preached less. IIRC.

        Imagine a preacher of his stature saying that?

  4. Freedomwriter

    Over the weekend, Christiane Amanpour was conducting interviews with several ministers. I only caught the interview she did with Franklin Graham and one with a Baptist minister who leads a church that was damaged after 9/11. The difference in the mens’ interviews was astoundingly different. Franklin’s responses and views of religion were very different from the Baptist minister. His beliefs reject the legitimacy of other faiths and beliefs. Franklin’s responses left me feeling angry and upset, and at the core of my being I rejected his perception of God’s message. The Baptist minister, however, gave me hope that not everyone has lost their way.

    “A heretic rebel, see how loud he shouts, he drew a circle to shut me out, but love and I had the wit to win, we drew a circle that drew him in.”

    • indypendent

      I know that I ‘lose it’ when I talk about Evangelical Christians, but the others on this blog know my past history in this movement. I’ve known these folks up close and personal even before Reagan invited them into the inner circle of the GOP and gave them the power they have built and perfected since the mid-70’s.

      But I am not naive to think it is just Evangelical Christians that act this way -because history tells us quite a different story.

      At the same time – I know there are churches of differing faiths who are not into that Us and Them mentality – so I do have hope for the future.

      But what dims my hope is the fact that the GOP is so entwined into the politics of one of the major two parties – that their Us and Them mentality finds its way to our governing our country.

      I believe these Evangelicals are just about one thing – power and keeping that power. They have no trouble at all with having us all marching towards a holy war.

      Whenever one of them talks about God not blessing us because of abortions or our tolerance of homosexuality – I just quietly add – maybe God does not like our war mongering and/or supporting known corrupt dictators around the world?

      • indypendent

        correction: GOP is so entwined should be the Evangelical Christian Religious Right is so entwined….

    • indypendent

      I force myself to watch Pat on The 700 Club a few times during the month just to see which hate-filled talking point he is pushing at that time. I cannot get through even 15 minutes before I want to throw something through the television.

      But what’s worse that listening to Pat is listening to his son.

      Maybe something is missing in the second generation of these televangelists? Like -maybe – compassion? But I’m sure there is more than enough money to keep the seconds in line and grasping for more.

    • wicked

      “…leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

      Okay, I left my husband, and there were days I’ve warned my children with threats of impending death (“condoms or AIDS, your choice”), studied Wicca and believe that, good or bad, the energy you put out will come back to you in threefold, think capitalism could stand a major overhaul by the real people of this country, and have lesbian friends, so I guess I fit the bill. Hooray for ME!!!!

      • indypendent

        When I read this above quote – I scratched my head thinking – now what does destroy capitalism have to do with the other issues?

        Seriously – how does encouraging intelligent women to be strong, capable and independent people destroy capitalism?

  5. indypendent

    Keith Olbermann announced when he is returning to television….


  6. indypendent

    I’m glad to see the White House respond for Franklin Graham’s remarks.

    But, unfortunately, this will only add fuel to the fire of the birthers and/or Religious Rightees who only need to feel the perception of being persecuted for their cause as justification they are doing God’s work.

    These folks really do not care about the truth – they only want to be ‘right’.

    How sad and pathetic is that?


    • indypendent

      P.S. – I am sure this White House response will also add many donations to Franklin Graham’s coffers.

      Hmmmm, do I dare even speculate as to this is the real reason for all this nonsense? Aw, surely good Christians would never bear false witness just to make money – would they?

      • Freebird1971

        Good Christians no,but some who have misappropriated the term would do it in a heartbeat

      • indypendent

        Is’ in a heartbeat’ faster than ‘in a New York minute’?

        Let’s just push aside the fact that this birther nonsense has been debunked many, many times. I don’t think God can honor people who are intentionally demonizing the president by claiming he is ‘not one of us’.

        Besides that – it makes their entire group look ignorant and stupid. Not too moderates and indepents are running to join that particular group.

      • indypendent

        should be – not too many moderates …

  7. Anybody know if this is for real? I don’t find anything about it on the Fox News site and I’m not about to post it if it is a hoax.


  8. DavidB

    My soon to be expatriate friend wants to live in China, eleswhere in Asia..or more probably India… Some place where there is growth.. A chance to contribute …

    • indypendent

      I hate to bring up an issue for your friend – but China’s economy, and India’s for that matter, largely depend on the US economy.

      If we go down – so do they.