Monday, 2/7/11, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

38 responses to “Monday, 2/7/11, Public Square

  1. 12 federal district court judges have dismissed challenges to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, two have found the law to be constitutional, and two have found the opposite.

  2. 6176, if you could enlighten us about what this actually means or what the next move would be we would appreciate your input.

    Does it automatically go to SCOTUS, or how does it end up there?

    Plus, since we all expect changes to the Affordable Care Act (one was made last week!) will the law be so changed by the time it gets to the highest court that these lower court rulings won’t even pertain to what the law became?

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      fnord, the following observations are perforce general in nature:

      The next step in each case (more difficult in the dismissal cases) is to appeal the district court’s decision to the appropriate Circuit Court of Appeals (10th Circuit, if a Federal District Court in Kansas had been involved). After the Court of Appeals makes its decision, the losing party may apply for a rehearing en banc or appeal to SCOTUS. If SCOTUS decides to hear the case(s), they (if more than one) may be ordered consolidated, as was the case with Brow v. Board of Education, the opinion in which actually addresed four separate actions. Of course, SCOTUS may, if it decides to so do, take jurisdiction over the cases, either on application of an interested party, or sua sponte, skipping the Courts of Appeal.

      As to legislative action in the interim, the same may be found by SCOTUS to have made the issue moot, thereby ending the court action, or SCOTUS may determine that a decision is warranted for any one of the exceptions to the “mootness” doctrine, in which instance a decision will be rendered.

      As to what the disparate results of the several cases filed means, not much. I would say the same are evidence of “reasonable persons may differ” as to the legal issues presented.

    • So no one could know at this point what may or may not happen. But at least you gave me an excellent overview of some possibilities. 🙂

      Thank you!

    • prairie pond

      617, I love it when you talk legal!

      Hehehe. “Talk lawyer to me, baby!”

  3. indypendent

    Article about how eating potato chips can cause depression.

    I do believe we should all follow a healthy diet but I also believe in moderation. I think that is where Americans get it wrong. The usual portions at most of the upper-scale restaurants are huge – and then we wonder why we have a population of obese people?

    • prairie pond

      Well, hell. Ya mean I could have improved my disposition all these years just by giving up transfats?

      Shhhhh. Don’t tell big pharma!

  4. fragotwofortwo,0,7584717.story

    Obama a business booster in Chamber of Commerce speech

    WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday pledged that his administration would be a strong partner with business in working to boost the American economy and called for an equal effort to restore a fading sense of the American dream.

    In a speech to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Obama channeled John F. Kennedy’s inaugural address as he sought a fresh start with the nation’s most powerful business lobby.

    “Even as we make America the best place on earth to do business, businesses also have a responsibility to America,” he said. “As we work with you to make America a better place to do business, I’m hoping that you are all thinking about what you can do for America.”

    Monday’s visit reflects a rapprochement of sorts in a testy relationship between the Democratic president and the Chamber of Commerce.

    Translation: what few consumer rights you had before are gone.
    Dems need to feed at the corporate trough too.

    Corporate non persons can run for president.

    • indypendent

      I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s and I remember American corporations that were good citizens. These were companies that kept their employers for years and the balance of labor/management was always a priority.

      But I think Reagan changed alot of this corporation thinking they can do what they want, to whom they want and any way they want. Because certainly no government regulation was too big to buy their own political puppets to get rid of those pesky little rules.

      The entire mindset of the corporations has changed. It is all about the bottom line – regardless of what that might do to our country’s future.

      Money talks and B.S. walks – every single time.

      And you’re right – it is on both sides of the aisle.

  5. indypendent

    How bad is a candidate when she cannot even win with a majority of her kind of people?
    Also note the poll taken in Texas (another one of those ‘you betcha’ states). Surprisingly, Ms Sarah is not doing all that well in the polls.

    Seems the moderates and independents are the ones who are messing things up for Ms Sarah.

    Isn’t it sad when people step over people to get to the top just to realize they need those same stepped-on folks to remain on the top?

    When will Republicans learn this simple lesson – in order to win the general election, they need more than their base.

    • indypendent

      I wonder if it would help if those doing the climbing and and stepping on folks would stop labeling everyone a RINO – would change their luck in the polls?

    • What I hear from self-professed ‘conservatives’ is that the GOP hasn’t been conservative enough, they haven’t nominated a ‘true’ conservative… They have their ‘standards’ ya know, along with their narrow way of thinking!

  6. indypendent

    There are all levels of standards, you know.

    I think the typical Conservative Republican must be bottom feeders in the standards dept.

    And this is based on what we know about – all those sex scandals, elected officials getting indicted and convicted, and let’s not forget their family values which they seem to wear like a dirty diaper. It gets them every single time.

  7. fragotwofortwo

    Anonymous Press Release Feb. 7: HBGary Federal
    For Immediate Distribution
    February 7th, 2011

    Recently, the head of internet security firm HBGary Federal, Aaron Barr, sought to elevate his investigation of the Anonymous movement by providing the Financial Times with what he claimed to be accurate and useful information about those who allegedly drive our activities.

    In yesterday’s release we inferred that the information presented was easy to undermine by any of the millions of people around the world with a cursory understanding of internet culture. Not only was the information provided by HBGary Federal woefully inaccurate, it provided no incriminating evidence against any of the persons named.
    Today, Anonymous learned that HBGary Federal intended to sell to the FBI a large document (it can be found at that allegedly detailed the identities of dozens of our participants.

    Within hours of learning this, Anonymous infiltrated HBGary Federal’s network and websites. Anonymous acquired the document with supposed personal details of anons, along with 50,000 company e-mails (~4.71GB) – all of which have now been distributed on the internet. Additionally, his associated websites and social media accounts were hijacked and manipulated to stress how poorly this ‘security expert’ handles matters of his own security ( Woe to his clients and others who invested in his confidence.

    The lack of quality in Aaron Barr’s undertaken research is worth noting. Aaron Barr missed a great deal of information that has been available online, and in fact failed to identify some of those whose identities were never intended to be hidden. People such as DailyKos’ diarist blogger Barrett Brown, and the administrator of, joepie91, whose identities could have been found in under a minute with a simple Google search.

    It is also worth noting that Aaron Barr was also providing this documentation as an example of investigation protocol. This would introduce a systematic flaw to the FBI’s investigative woodwork. The risk of institutionalising a flawed procedure exponentiates a problem, and it does so at the taxpayers expense in every sense. Had the FBI indeed bought this information from HBGary Federal, it would have been paid for by taxpayers money, and many innocent people would have been marked as leaders in actions they may not even have been associated with.

    Unlike you, Aaron, we did our research, we know who you are, and now, so will everyone else. Although you have managed to ruin your credibility in an attempt to further it, you did provide us with entertainment, albeit very briefly.

    Anonymous does not have leaders. We are not a group, we are not an organization. We are just an idea. What we have done today will appear harsh. It is harsh. We will respond to those who seek to threaten us. We understand that our participants have been concerned about recent FBI raids and companies such as HBGary Federal lurking and logging our chats, so we’ve given all of Anonymous a message: we will fight back.

    We are Anonymous.
    We are legion.
    We do not forgive.
    We do not forget.
    Expect us – always.

    Yours faithfully,

  8. wicked

    Totally off topic, but it might bring a smile.

    College classrooms replace stages for rock stars

    LOS ANGELES – They may fall off the pop charts, some might even lose the muse. But these days old rock stars need not worry about fading away, not when there’s a college classroom nearby.

    Rock’s gangster of love himself, Steve Miller, created some buzz recently when he became an artist-in-residence at the prestigious University of Southern California’s Thornton School of Music. But it turns out the guy who famously proclaimed, “I’m a joker, I’m a smoker, I’m a midnight toker” wasn’t nearly the first guitar-slinger to move from the stage to the classroom.

  9. This is old, but is still valid to make the point of putting huge numbers into a perspective we can understand. Next time we hear any politician talking about cuts to the budget that sound like enormous amounts…

  10. indypendent

    I would like to see Glenn Beck tell this to each and every NFL football player that he deems offensive. Now that would be a pay-per-view video that could probably pay off the national debt.

    Maybe they could get a sponsor for the show – Let’s see, shall we ask the makers of Depends? Because I suspect alot of Depends will be needed on the day Glenn Beck arrogantly tries to diss any NFL football player.

    • indypendent

      P.S. diss any player to HIS face. Anyone can sit behind a microphone and say this – but to say it to their face – that would be something else.

      BTW – doesn’t this sound alot like the big flap these CONS made over Obama not wearing his flag lapel pin every time?

      Funny thing though – alot of Republican candidates did not wear their flag lapel pin every time either – but I guess the rules don’t count if you’re a CON.

  11. Dubya always did like Texas, so I don’t think he’ll mind too much staying home safe from arrest…

    Groups Threaten W.’s Future Travel

    Just two days after former president George W. Bush canceled a trip to Switzerland, citing the threat of protests and prosecution of torture allegations, human-rights groups say they’ll try to reproduce the feat elsewhere. The Center for Constitutional Rights published a report Monday accusing Bush of torture and calling for him to be prosecuted. Based on new admissions in his autobiography Decision Points, the report would form the basis for future warrants and could make future travel difficult for him. Human-rights advocates say he admitted ordering torture when he said that he’d approved water boarding. While the move might not ground Bush at home, it could complicate his plans, forcing him to gain assurances ahead of traveling that he won’t be arrested in destination countries.

    pssssst, go to the link just to see ole George’s picture. It’s a good one of him.

    • prairie pond

      Hee hee. Did you hear Letterman say something to the effect that the worst thing that could happen to Egypt was for Hosni Mubarak to be succeeded by his son, Hosni W Mubarak?


    • indypendent

      I didn’t hear this – but thanks for the laugh!

      How’s the weather out your way?

    • prairie pond

      Heh, Indy. It’s bad out here. White out conditions, drifting snow, and, did I mention it’s cold?

      I’m snowed in. Again. Yet another day without pay this year.

      But on the bright side, the dogs are glad to have me home…

  12. I’m not sure which to rant about. The fact that health care has spun out of control or that there are going to be thirty-two brackets this year.

    • Thanks for the visit, Charles. No need to rant, unless you want to, then feel free to choose your subject and go onandon. 😉

      I had neglected to visit your site and enjoy your lovely words and pictures. I appreciate the reminder. So much more pleasant than rants.

  13. indypendent

    Here’s a what if $64,000 question….

    What if George W. Bush does get picked up by some foreign country and held on charges.

    Are we obligated to go in and rescue him? What do you think we should do?

    My feeling is this – the guy leaves the USA, then he knows the risks and he is responsible for his own fate.

    But maybe I’m too cynical?

    • It wouldn’t be fair or rational for me to respond. I absolutely abhor everything about bush the lesser.

    • I think President Obama would pull out all the stops to ensure his safety.

    • WSClark

      Regardless of what anyone thinks of George W Bush, if he were to be arrested and taken into custody, that would be an enormous slap in the face to the US and I would expect, demand, that President Obama use any means necessary to ensure his immediate release, up to and including an invasion.

      Bush was WPE, but the office of the President and former presidents deserves respect.

      When Saddam considered an assassination of George HW Bush, Clinton lobbed a cruise at him (Hussein, not Bush) and I would imagine that Obama would take an even more forceful action.

    • indypendent

      I see your reasoning but if we really profess to be a nation of laws and justice, then isn’t it on our shoulders to make even a former president to be held accountable for their actions?

  14. indypendent

    Did anyone watch O’Reilly interview Obama? I heard on MSNBC Lawrence ODonnell show that O’Reilly interrupted 43 times during this interview.

    Howard Fineman (the guest) talked about how Obama handled this was just right. Obama sat there and smiled throughout the entire interview. Even when O’Reilly asked Obama what he thought about those people that hated him.

    Like Lawrence O’Donnell said – can you imagine O’Reilly asking Sarah Palin that question?

    O’Reilly came away from that interview looking like the fool and a bully. Which I am sure pleased his narrow-minded base. But like I have said alot of times on this blog – that narrow base is not going to win the general election.

    • I didn’t watch it live, but watched a recording (posted it here on the blog) and I agree that O’Reilly came off rude, pompous, foolish. President Obama was stately and polite at all times.

    • I was amazed at the link you posted earlier today showing Tennessee would vote for Obama over Palin. Renewed my confidence in the intelligence of the people in that state.

    • indypendent

      I know what you mean. I was also quite amazed at that result.

      But when you have a candidate that shoots from her mouth and does not think before she reloads – what can we expect?

  15. Zippy

    “Win the future,” over and over, irritates me (not that I don’t agree that we need to out-innovate etc., I just find an otherwise serious response interlaced with sloganeering cheapens the message), but I agree Obama did well with O’Reilly.

    If GWB was taken in custody under the rules of a democracy that respects human rights and international law (and all nations, including the US, have failed that test to some degree, the US more than many others in the past decade), I would have to look at it on a case-by-case basis.

    On a related note, how sad that I had to turn to South Africa business publication to find a news story about the latest developments in the Egypt protests that doesn’t bury the essential facts of what’s happening on the ground to some type of political spin (though, of course, we all know that various elements of the business press have their own “spin”–the Wall Street Journal and the Investor’s Business Daily print outright lies as news). Even the Christian Science Monitor disappointed on nailing down the facts.

    It’s scary that the Muslim Brotherhood is negotiating with the government, but they are apparently not the only group, and apparently members of the Brotherhood and a significant portion of the protesters are not pleased with the results. The protests continue.

    Of course, Lizard Gingrich couldn’t wait to jump on that–I didn’t read his rant. He lost what was left of any credibility (and which was hugely undeserved in the first place) in 1995.

    You want to be president, Newtie? Think you can “win the future” better? I already know your whole history, and will make sure the Libertarian tech community remembers what a Foe you turned out to be.

    Bring it on.


    • indypendent

      From what I’ve heard from various news coverage is the Muslim Brotherhood is not all that popular in Egypt.

      With that said, this group is a political group within that country and they should have their representation – as well – if you truly believe in democracy.

      But I see the Religious Right the same way here in the USA. This is a political group that deserves to be heard but when this group takes it upon themselvdes to call all the shots – that is when I get angry.

      And I think the same could be said about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

      Religion and politics should NEVER mix.