Friday, 2/4/11, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

58 responses to “Friday, 2/4/11, Public Square

  1. fragotwofortwo

    good morning Wichita

  2. fragotwofortwo

    a little insight

  3. indypendent

    I’ve been busy with the grandkids but did manage to leave MSNBC on for the Egyptian protest coverage. From what I can gather, this is a peaceful protest and nothing at all like what we saw when the pro-Mubarak supporters showed up in the last couple of days. Things that make you go hmmmm…….

    I did hear that a former Egyptian government leader, that is well respected and well liked, did join the protesters today. So is this an indication of what is to come?

    It was also noted that Mubarak’s inner circle or all men in the 60’s or 70’s and are essentially his ‘gang’, so if anyone of them is tapped to take over if and when Mubarak leaves – is that going to set well with the protesters demanding more representation in their government?

    Alot rides on what happens today in Egypt. This spread of protest was started in Tunisia and seems to be spreading. Yemen is rattling as we speak.

    Maybe if all the politicians and religious power-elites would let the average citizens decide their own government, the Middle East would be a better place?

  4. indypendent

    And to think there was a comment in today’s Opinion Line advocating we throw away all history books and just have our kids tune into Glenn Beck because he knows the real history. (I do hope that OL person was being sarcastic – but you know, I’ve met alot of Republicans who think Beck does know what he is talking about. Scary, very scary).

    • fragotwofortwo

      hahaha my wingnut is crazier than yours is

    • indypendent

      Okay – you got me…..this time. But just wait for the next GB moment.

      and we all know there WILL be a nother GB moment – don’t we?

      I think Chris Matthews of MSNBC Hardball nails it when he simply says ‘ looney toons’.

    • At one time I would have been sure that comment was satire, now I’m not sure. There are so many so full of hate and fear which has a negative effect on clear thinking.

  5. indypendent

    Life is returning to a sense of normalcy for the family of Rep Giffords. While I am sure there are people who will criticize her husband Mark for making the decision to return to his NASA training for their launch, I suspect this couple is not your ordinary couple. I suspect both of these people are dedicated to their chosen careers and I also suspect that Rep Gabrielle Giffords would approve of her husband’s decision.

    But in the end – it is really their choice – and no one has the right to judge either one of them.

    I didn’t realize that Mark had an identical twin who is on the Space Station. Maybe that is a factor in Mark’s decision to continue with his mission?

    Or maybe Mark is just showing the world that one lone gunman bent on violence has not won the day.

    • badbiker

      Or…………………………………………. Commander Kelly’s identical twin is going to take over for him and Mark will slip off to an unknown, uninhabited island with his space alien wife to complete their mission to take over the world.

      Have you noticed that no one had ever seen Gabby prior to the space program? What were the Kelly twins doing in space? Does anyone have proof? Have you seen the birth certificate?

      (Message brought to you by

    • WSClark

      See above……………………………..

      Crap, forgot to log out of Bad Biker and relog in under WS.

      (Just another conspiracy.)

    • I’ve missed you Will — no matter how you log-in!

    • indypendent

      LMAO. ……Biker – you sure do know how to create a good conspiracy. But you must add the word ‘caliphate’ in there somewhere to make it really believable to the uneducated masses.

      hey, with a little luck, you too can have your own entertainment show and make millions.

  6. fragotwofortwo

    balancing the budget is hard work–advocates-angered-by-Bachmann-s-proposal-to-cut-budget

    WASHINGTON — Rep. Michele Bachmann has drawn the ire of some of the nation’s veterans and an admonition from a Democratic senator over her suggestion to cut $4.5 billion in veterans’ benefits from the federal budget.

    Bachmann, R-Stillwater, included the suggestion to freeze the Department of Veterans Affairs health care spending and pare benefits in a list of possible cuts totaling more than $400 million. Bachmann attached the list to a Jan. 24 blog post on her congressional website.

    “I’m calling for Congress to do the hard work of making real and necessary cuts in federal spending,” Bachmann said in the blog. “I have put the following list on the table for discussion, and I’m calling on other members of Congress to do the same.”

    The list has generated much discussion among veterans’ groups.

    “No way, no how, will we let this proposal get any traction in Congress,” said Richard Eubank, national commander of the 2.1 million-member Veterans of Foreign Wars.

    • indypendent

      Oh, so this self-professing ‘real’ American would rather see our veterans get the shaft in health care needs than to cancel a few contracts with military defense companies that have peddled their ill-equipped and unnecessary war machine products?

      Or how about just getting back some of those billions that were paid out to the very same military contractors in the Iraq War for those ‘missing’ funds that for some reason, no one knows what happened to the money.

      But I guess the Party of NO cannot tell their puppet masters NO but they feel comfortable and proud to shaft our veterans.

      Unbelievable…..And this is what passes for a ‘real’ American politician. please give us all a break.

    • indypendent

      Oh, but their love for veterans will be brought out on the next election campaign trail. Just watch and see – it’s like an automatic Jack-in-the-Box toy they play with every single time.

      Throw in a little Star Spangled Banner, wave the American Flag but the main thing for these politicians is to make sure they have an onion to bite into right before their speech because those tears in their eyes is the clincher to this particular snake oil sales pitch.

      hey, this routine has worked for televangelists for years.

    • Those GOP dolts really hate spending — especially the successful spending that kept our country out of a depression. They didn’t mind the spending to kill people in bush’s war of convenience. They mainly seem to really hate the spending that might help people.

  7. indypendent

    Bad weather was a factor in poor jobs outlook? It makes sense to me, but I wonder which particular talk radio entertainer will pick up on that talking point about how Obama is now blaming the weather for his failure to not create jobs?

    Well, I remember John Boehner promising that when Republicans took over, that they knew how to create jobs. If this is true – then where are the jobs Johnny B?

  8. fragotwofortwo

    well it’s official Jesse Ventura says Fema’s gonna round you up and put you in a death camp

  9. Food costs at records as U.N. warns of volatile era

    Arctic current warmer than for 2,000 years: study

    Everyone here knows what these two headlines have to do with one another — the effect of global climate change, and, how important it is to the people of the world.

    • fragotwofortwo

      Why it means you should probably store up a few weeks worth of food. The speculators are going to push up prices too.
      I would have done this anyway, as I am on the quest for the perfect tomato. Well I have bored you guys enough with dull posts in my personal echo chamber, so I will be moving on for the day. Happy Trails

    • frago, you’ve never bored me! I remember when you tried to get us to form a buying cooperative long before most people were aware of how good that advice was!

  10. This ‘situation’ where the local school board pauses to reevaluate the latest school bond issue spending is quite a conundrum!

    First, it was a vote by the people — a majority said yes issue those bonds and spend the money on this and this.

    Now, two short years later we’re facing a new set of circumstances. We’re laying off hundreds of teachers so we can’t make those new smaller classrooms and new schools the bond issue was to pay for reality. Well, guess we could make them reality but without teachers…

    You see the conundrum.

    There are probably costs to get out of contracts, and going forward with said contracts in today’s reality doesn’t make sense. Spend money getting out of the contracts or fulfilling them although they don’t make sense today?

    I think it’s good to pause.

    One more thing I’ve noticed is that we don’t hear much from John Allison. I think this is good. I go back in my memory to our last several school superintendents and realize they all had their face on the news and were always being quoted. This guy doesn’t do that, but it seems he thinks and it seems things are humming along without the need for the big guy being a media hound.

    • indypendent

      I also remember one certain superintendent that when he made his desire known for more money in his paycheck envelope and threatened to look elsewhere , the good ol boys downtown miraculously found the extra money to keep the guy.

      And now we the problem of laying off teachers….

      I guess I don’t understand the priorities correctly….

    • The State congress critters are continuing to argue over what is adequate resources for education. Tax revenues are down, we have a budget shortfall, the sales tax increase can’t cover all the increased costs… The GOP rules so education funding will be cut. Education certainly isn’t their highest priority, I don’t know if it makes their top ten.

      Did you read the article in this morning’s paper about a Kansas House Committee passing a bill to amend the state’s constitution and allow Kansas residents to ‘opt-out’ of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act? The article printed some of the ‘discussion’ between opposing congress critters. It showed some real stupidity of the GOP who ‘represent’ us in Topeka.

      I’ll go find it so you can read it if you haven’t.

    • I don’t see any easy way out of this school bond issue conundrum! The people voted and I think there would need to be another vote to change the facts of spending X dollars on X and X. I’m not sure what it would take! I don’t think that money can’t actually be spent on anything else, and I’m not suggesting anyone has said it would be. In fact, they’ve simply said they need to pause and look at where they are, what is possible…

    • I voted against this bond issue, but I was in the minority and it passed. The people spoke.

      Remember when one explanation for the bond issue passing was the higher than average turnout of our black community to vote for Obama and to vote for schools that might be closer so maybe they could enjoy neighborhood schools like every other part of Wichita had always enjoyed? They certainly bore the burden of forced busing for many decades!

  11. indypendent

    If you cannot stand too much sugar-coating, you might not want to read this.
    But if you’re into revisionist fantasy – this is your cup of tea!

    • indypendent

      Now here is an article about how the real Reagan acted and reacted during the Beirut attack.

      Maybe the Reagan 2020 people must view their golden idol through rose-colored glasses.

    • indypendent

      BTW – Thomas Friedman is still around to tell the rest of the story….

      Seems we need alot of people who were also involved in this events to tell the whole story.

      Case in point – Donald Rumsfeld’s new book. Rumsfeld claims the idea to attack Saddam Hussein did not come until 15 days after 9/11 and Bush was the one proposing it. But in notes from some meeting a few hours after the Pentagon was hit on 9/11 – Rumsfeld himself talked about hitting Saddam Hussein along with Bin Laden.

      Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

    • Who would the GOP choose as their Saint if it weren’t Ronnie? Seriously, who could they be proud of? They have to make things up to make Ronnie look good! Would they need to go back to Eisenhower? Who? There are so few examples of anything great on their side.

  12. indypendent

    I like Ronald Reagan Jr. He seems to be the one person that can truthfully see his father for what he was – a flawed president. I’ve never heard Ron Jr. ever demonize his father – but I have heard him say that he felt his father was wrong with some of his policies

    Now the other son – Michael (?) – seems to be the son who likes riding coat tails of his famous daddy. He will never say anything against his father – ever.

    But Michael was from Reagan’s first marriage – so maybe there is a sibling rivalry between the two sons? That would explain the sour attitude of the one on the right.

    • Those two seem to be ‘at odds’ with one another. I wonder if the fact that Ron (the more liberal) was the biological son and Michael (the conservative) was adopted as an infant played into this in any way?

      wiki says about Michael:
      Michael was born in 1945 in Los Angeles, California to Irene Flaugher, a 29-year old unwed woman from Kentucky. He was born into a broken family; his biological father was only 16 years old and a habitual juvenile delinquent, having been detained in juvenile hall several times. His mother, who was 13 years older than his father, had no education. His parents fought frequently, and just several months after Michael was born, his biological father dropped out of the family and never returned. He was adopted by Ronald Reagan and Reagan’s first wife Jane Wyman shortly after his birth.”

    • indypendent

      I did not know that background about Michael. I just always thought it was because Michael came from the first marriage to Jane Wyman and Ron Jr came from the 2nd marriage to Reagan’s love of his life. From all accounts, Ronnie and Nancy were very close and adored one another.

      Chris Matthews made a statement tonight about Ronald Reagan’s first marriage was so bad through no fault of his own. That kinda threw me for a moment because I thought Jane Wyman was not that awful of a person. She made more money than he did, but alot of Hollywood marriages were like that.

      I remember when Reagan was president that Jane Wyman starred in Falcon Crest. Didn’t she make a statement that she made more than the president or something to that effect?

      Actually, I don’t really care about their personal lives. But when these types of social conservatives start preaching down to everyone else, then their own backyards should be cleaned up first.

  13. Look at how far Fox is willing to go to hate President Obama —

    Attention Fox Nation: There Is More Than One Version Of The Bible

    You might think it would be difficult for conservative smear merchants to continue to cast doubt on Obama’s faith when he calls Jesus Christ “my lord and Savior,” like he did at yesterday’s annual National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, DC.. But, as “news” outlets like Fox Nation have shown time and again, they have absolutely no standards and are willing to manufacture scandals out of thin air when reality doesn’t coincide with their chosen narrative.

    If you visit Fox Nation right now, you are greeted by the following story on their front page:

    • indypendent

      But yet these same self-professing evangelical Christians are rewriting the Bible and they absolutely no problem with that?

      I posted yesterday about the Prayer Breakfast and how these Social Conservative Christian Republicans always had something negatibve to say something about Obama and the prayer breakfast.

      So this is all they’ve got?

      hate to break it to these fine Christian folks – there are quite a few missing books in the Bible that have been lost throughout the years due to the political pressures and powers at the time. There were books of the Bible that have been translated so many times that the original version is probably long gone.

      And this will really blow these christians’ minds – Jesus is even mentioned in the Muslims holy book.

      WTF moment here – huh?

    • Franklin Graham and his ‘ilk’ are much more threatening than the Muslim Brotherhood.

  14. indypendent

    Continuing saga of Kris Kobach and his quest to rid Kansas of Voter I.D. fraud.

    I have no problem with showing my drivers license to vote. But I do have to wonder what documentation Mr. Kobach and his fellow Republicans want to require to show citizenship?

    I imagine they will take nothing less than the long-form birth certificate – because that is what seems to be the only factual proof these fine folks will accept to prove citizenship.

    Or could I be wrong?

    Mr. Kobach and the Kansas GOP may just want to rethink their plan – alot of senior citizens do not even have a birth record – let alone the long-form version.

    And less senior citizens at the voting booths might just mean less tea will be required at the next tea party.

  15. indypendent

    here is one link I could find about Andrew Schafly (son of Phyllisk Schalfly – yes, that Phyllis) who is behind the Conservative Bible Project.

    If these Conservatives want to try to say the Bible is the literal Word of God – then how come they are wanting the public’s version of what the Bible should say?

  16. indypendent

    Would they need to go back to Eisenhower? Who? There are so few examples of anything great on their side

    fnord – since it came out that Eisenhower was warning about letting the military industrial complex get too big, even the Republicans don’t want to claim Ike anymore.

    IMHO – Eisenhower was a much better president than Reagan. But you know, Reagan did make a few of his ilk rich – so when it comes to money, all that moral stuff goes out the window.

    The 80’s were known as the greed years for good reason…

  17. indypendent

    Just how much arrogance does it take for some people to think they are worthy of rewriting God’s Word?

    Just how much arrogance does it take for those same people to judge others on how they interpret the same Bible?

    I wonder which side God will take on this issue?

    The people who want to rewrite His words or those people who are trying to live by His words?

    Hmmmmmm……this is why the Religiois Right and Social Conservatives will never have enough people to run roughshod over the majority of the voting Americans. The majority of the people – even those who profess to be non-religious – know you do not mess around with God’s own words and ask for the public’s help in your translation.


  18. I didn’t think anyone could get more stupid than Boehner’s gang trying to redefine rape so that it’s not incest if you’re 18, it’s not rape if you were drugged so you couldn’t fight back or say no, it’s not statutory rape if you’re 13 and you “consent” to sex with a 40-year old, and then along comes someone even more abusive and more stupid. These GOP men are succeeding in alienating women.


    GA State Rep.: There’s No Such Thing as a Rape Victim

    U.S. House Republicans have received a great deal of attention over the past week since seeking to qualify the crime of rape with the term “forcible” in a high-profile piece of legislation. Such a distinction could create classes of rape victims, with “forcible rape” victims somehow being ordained as worse off than victims of statutory rape, date rape, rape by coercion or deception, rape of the disabled or mentally impaired… You get the picture.

    But what if rape victims could no longer be referred to as “victims” at all? What if people who have endured this horrible – and already chronically under reported — crime could only be called “accusers”?

    Georgia Republican state Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a bill to change the state’s criminal codes so that in “criminal law and criminal procedure” (read: in court), victims of rape, stalking, and family violence could only be referred to as “accusers” until the defendant has been convicted.

    Burglary victims are still victims. Assault victims are still victims. Fraud victims are still victims. But if you have the misfortune to suffer a rape, or if you are beaten by a domestic partner, or if you are stalked, Rep. Franklin doesn’t think you’ve been victimized. He says you’re an accuser until the courts have determined otherwise.

    To diminish a victim’s ordeal by branding him/her an accuser essentially questions whether the crime committed against the victim is a crime at all. Robbery, assault, and fraud are all real crimes with real victims, the Republican asserts with this bill.

    • indypendent

      This guy is from Georgia – enough said.

      I went to a private fundamental Christian college in Chattanooga, Tennessee in the mid-70’s and there were alot of Georgians on campus.

      These men truly believed that the South would rise again and this time they will win the Civil War.

      They also truly believed that God gave men the role of master to women. They also truly believed that whatever the man did should never be questioned and if any woman dared to question her master, she was asking for a beating – and rightly deserved one.

      I’m telling you – Georgian males are a breed unto themselves.

      And this was in the mid 70’s – so I don’t think much has changed since then – do you?

    • indypendent

      BTW – These morally superior Georgian males sure could pray those beautiful prayers and sing those beautiful hymns.

      And the worst ones were the preachers and televangelists kids.

  19. indypendent

    I’ve been thinking about Glenn Beck’s relating of the Islamic Caliphate.

    So Glenn Beck thinks that Muslims are spreading throughout the world and taking over.

    I am just curious what the native people throughout all the world thought when White Christians came into their countries and took over all in the name of their God?

    Of course, these White Christians called themselves missionaries but isn’t it ironic that the first thing these missionaries do is to teach everyone English?

    This is just one of those thoughts that make you go hmmmm……..

    • indypendent

      BTW – Isn’t Glenn Beck a mormon? Don’t their church have a missionary program?

      I wonder if that would qualify for a caliphate.

  20. I understand IOKIYAR, but do you think any of the GOP voters will notice their congress critters haven’t changed what they’re making important — and it isn’t the economy or jobs! Their attack on women is at an even higher fever pitch it seems.


    The controversy over “forcible rape” may be over, but now there’s a new Republican-sponsored abortion bill in the House that pro-choice folks say may be worse: this time around, the new language would allow hospitals to let a pregnant woman die rather than perform the abortion that would save her life.

    The bill, known currently as H.R. 358 or the “Protect Life Act,” would amend the 2010 health care reform law that would modify the way Obamacare deals with abortion coverage. Much of its language is modeled on the so-called Stupak Amendment, an anti-abortion provision pro-life Democrats attempted to insert into the reform law during the health care debate last year. But critics say a new language inserted into the bill just this week would go far beyond Stupak, allowing hospitals that receive federal funds but are opposed to abortions to turn away women in need of emergency pregnancy termination to save their lives.

    The sponsor of H.R. 358, Rep. Joe Pitts (R-PA) is a vocal member of the House’s anti-abortion wing. A member of the bipartisan Pro-Life Caucus and a co-sponsor of H.R 3 — the bill that added “forcible rape” to the lexicon this week — Pitts is no stranger to the abortion debate. But pro-choice advocates say his new law goes farther than any other bill has in encroaching on the rights of women to obtain an abortion when their health is at stake. They say the bill is giant leap away from accepted law, and one they haven’t heard many in the pro-life community openly discuss before.

  21. indypendent

    I sincerely believe if we went back to the way things were before Roe v Wade, every one of these morally superior Republicans would pat themselves on their back, their preacher would pat them on their head and they would boastfully tell God that THEY stopped abortions.

    But the truth is, and has always been, that abortions will take place. But I guess the truth does not matter when such big egos are at stake.

    • I sadly agree.

      All these years wasted should have been spent helping women who face that difficult decision. Affordable health care may have helped, child care help while she worked. Simple respect for bearing the consequences of being human.

      We’ll never know whether there are more or fewer legal abortions than there were illegal abortions. We know they’re safer for all women, not just those of means.

    • indypendent

      Just imagine if all the money wasted in this abortion debate went to actual help for women.

      But women have never really been the priority in our society. Remember, the Founding Fathers did give slaves 3/5 personhood and women did not even have that much.

      But the slaves were for economic purposes – I guess that’s why slaves came before women.

      And from the looks of these proposed bills coming out of these Republican male elected officials – it looks like they want to go back to those good ol’ days.

      I suspect a good portion of the women in this country will put up a good fight if and when they start paying attention to this crap.

    • Any woman able to think for herself will reject this new abuse. The GOP manages to show minorities and women disrespect.

  22. indypendent

    This is very interesting………. notice that both mother and daughter failed to sign their application – so that is only thing that has held up the process.

    I wonder if this process also requires someone to present their long-form birth certificate as proof of who they really are?

  23. indypendent

    Didn’t House Speaker Boehner promise transparency and no more back room deals like those evil Democrats did when they had control of the House?

    Well, look here, Johnny B has made a complete flip-flop on the transparency issue. I wonder if his Boehner-bots will notice or even care?

    What did I say the Republican mantra was – rules for thee, but not for me.

    In other words – read my lips on the other side of my face.