Monday, 1/31/11, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

71 responses to “Monday, 1/31/11, Public Square

  1. indypendent

    Just watched some coverage about the Egypt protests and they were talking about the demographics of these protesters.

    They seem to be a mix of society. They are poor, middle class, educated elite, young, grandparents and even grandchildren. The average of the younger protester is 26.

    And the chants are not against the US (thank God) or any religious demand – but the chants are directed toward Egyptian President Mubarak for him to leave.

    So, if the protesters are not the radical religious folks – then at least there is some hope that whenever Mubarak gets the message and leaves -there will be a good chance the next president will be a moderate in which the US can be an ally in the Middle East.

    I do find it interesting though – the issues these protesters are talking about is economic and representation in their government.

    Hmmmmm…..economics is not so good in the US and do you feel represented in our current government?

    So, let’s watch the Republicans do their budget cutting and continue to reward those companies to outsource good paying American jobs. Is it only a matter of time that what we are seeing in Egypt will find its way here?

    The Tea Party members advocate for a revolution but I don’t see their mix as being anywhere near the societal mix of the Egyptians. And that is the key.

  2. itolduso

    it is hard to tell the “truth” of this, but if at all true, and in Children’s theater, someone needs to be fired.

    “First I would like to compliment you and the entire staff of “The Mikado” on the beautiful sets, costuming and professional performance we experienced on Sunday, Jan. 23. However, I must call you on something that was inserted into the play which I am almost positive was not in the original book.

    The comments made in such a cavalier and oh-so-humorous way were uncalled for. Now, I realize you play to a mostly liberal audience in Missoula and so, I am sure, felt comfortable in your calling for the beheading of Sarah Palin. I am painfully aware that most in the audience tittered with laughter and clapped because “no one would miss her” but there were some in your audience who took great offense to this “uncivil tone” about another human being.

    We are in the midst of a crisis that took place in Tucson where many started pointing fingers at that horrible right wing with all their hatred and targeting and standing for the second amendment and on and on and on. So, here we are in a lovely play with beautiful voices serenading us and we have to hear that it is okay to call for the killing of Sarah Palin because we don’t like her and no one would miss her. Unbelievable.

    As a professional you should be ashamed of yourself, the audience should be ashamed of themselves and I am ashamed of myself for not standing up and leaving at that very moment. I would like to see an apology from you not because I want to hinder free-speech but for the hypocrisy this so clearly shows.

    Rory Page, Clinton

    • indypendent

      Why did this person sit throught it if they were so offended?

      I am not condoning what was said or done – but if this person was outraged, then do something as it was happening. Why write into the local news and make a big stink? Perhaps this is nothing more than a planted political ploy to keep that hatred pot stirred?

      Why not ask for a video of the performance – surely there is a videotape somewhere and then we can all see for ourselves what the ‘truth’ is in this situation.

    • Not quite as bad as it’s being depicted, as usual. It wasn’t the Children’s Theater and it IS political satire…

      Poor taste? Possibly.

    • indypendent

      The only thing I find fault with is the fact this was a community production and perhaps they should not use a controversial political figure as the butt of their joke.

      But, hey, free speech is free speech. It’s not like the actors were locked and loaded.

  3. fragotwofortwo

    not nearly as important as the leftist childrens theater in montana.

  4. itolduso

    Perhaps this is nothing more than a planted political ploy to keep that hatred pot stirred

    That’s probably it.

  5. indypendent

    Sarah Palin, God bless her, but she really does think everything is about her – doesn’t she?

    Without that lamestream mean-spirited media – Sarah Palin would be just another half-term governor.

    • This is exactly what they (the media) should have ignored. Look at all the coverage she got/is getting from this. The boycott is suppose to start Feb 1. Is the media going to be able to NOT print similar stupid declarations from the Palin? We’ll see.

  6. itolduso

    AP Exclusive: Report warns of Iran nuke disaster

    “”Bur German cybersecurity researcher Ralph Langner says that, while the virus has infested the reactor’s computers, “Stuxnet cannot technically mess with the systems in BushehrBottom line: A thermonuclear explosion cannot be triggered by something like Stuxnet,” said Langner, who has led research into Stuxnet’s effects on the Siemens equipment running Iran’s nuclear programs.”

    Well, big friggin deal. a “thermosnuclear explostion” is not the only concern. The biggest concern is a “steam” exlplosion overpre3ssurizing and blowing the hell out of the reactor, blowing the top off, and scattering nuclear material, and contaminated water and others, all over the damn countryside.

    If the stux virus was intentionally targetting the Iranian reactor, it could have had very severe unintended consequences, and should NEVER have been done.

    • indypendent

      Whenever we are talking about nuclear, we are talking about a potential disaster. With our current infrastructure in such disrepair, you don’t think the same thing could happen to our nuclear or electrical grid?

      With everything computerized, a potential disaster should always be on our minds.

    • wicked

      Exactly, indy. It’s okay for US to have these things, but no one else.

      Double standard?

    • indypendent

      What concerns me is this – if there was a nuclear explosion and contamination spread throughout the region, who will clean up the mess after the Republicans cut the EPA out of the budget?

      I guess they think all those clean air and water regulations are too cumbersome. But if there is no safety agency – then let’s all just hope and pray we don’t live close enough to a nuclear plant to catch the fallout?

      I guess we really are on our own with these Republicans…

  7. indypendent

    This is a link to the Missoula Children’s Theatre website. Seems the MCT Director had a response to the above story itolduso shared with us today.

    • itolduso

      Thanks for that. At least it wasn;t the children’s theater. And while they didn;t “pen” the offending language, they have removed it. Very responsible for the director. Secondary Kudos.

    • indypendent

      But the guy still did not state how the offending words got into the play – did he?

      But, you’re right, at least it was not the Childrens Theatre. But your original assessment is still correct – it needs to be addressed.

      But I still have to wonder why the person who is complaining about it in the paper sat through it if they were so offended.

      If anything, I would have grabbed my cell phone and taken a video and shared that with the news media. At least that way, there would be proof of what was said and what was not said.

    • wicked

      Seems the writer of the opinion piece has some apologizing of his own to do. Changing the facts to support his complaint definitely diminishes that complaint. Making an honest mistake of the facts isn’t a whole lot better.

      The Mikado is satire at it’s finest. There’s a big difference between satire and painting targets on politicians, while encouraging people to “reload.” That wasn’t even meant to be satirical.

      Why is it that most comedians, even those who don’t use politics in their acts, are liberals? How many conservative comedians are there? I can name one–Drew Carey.

    • indypendent

      Drew Carey is a comedian? I never thought he was that funny and now as the host of the game show, he is just plain boring – IMHO

      Maybe now I know why I don’t get Carey’s humor…

    • wicked

      indy, I never found any humor in him or his show, either. He always struck me as a bit too pompous. As an actor, he’s lousy, always playing to the audience and therefore never in character, even if that character is “him.”

    • Here’s the link I posted above to this same discussion…

    • wicked

      To be completely fair, good satire should have been directed at both Dems and Reps.

      From what very little I’ve read about Gilbert & Sullivan, their satire was cutting edge and not at all nice. With The Mikado, it was placed in Japan as a thinly veiled attempt to diguise that satire used against the Brits at that time.

      As for whether this latest about Palin was in good or bad taste, personally I’d have to hear the entire thing. There’s a lot to be said for context, especially when it comes to satire. It could be that there was some directed at liberals, too, but the poster, being human and biased, didn’t have a problem with it.

    • Obviously Palin ‘fans’ don’t have a problem with her never being in the news for sounding or behaving stately, never for saying something that sounded ‘presidential.’ I completely understand this ‘news’ had nothing to do with words she spoke or actions she took, but does she ever do or say anything positive?

  8. itolduso

    “you don’t think the same thing could happen to our nuclear or electrical grid?”

    Of course it could. Although I suspect our cybersecurity is way ahead of the Iranians.

    • indypendent

      Don’t be so sure. It only takes one person with an agenda to do alot of damage. And sometimes it is not the enemy on the outside of the gate – but the one inside the gate who might be paid alot of money.

  9. indypendent

    Here is an updated version of the article on the Koch gathering in California. Seems the Koch brothers did not rent the entire hotel – there were two other groups holding meetings there. And one group were federal judges.

    Hmmm…..secret conservative political meeting and a room full of federal judges down the hall…..what could possibly go wrong?

    • itolduso

      Best part of the linked article

      ““They are using their vast financial resources to get a tighter grip on elected officials and fight regulations that are protecting the public,” said Mary Boyle, a spokeswoman for Common Cause, which staged its own conference to protest the Koch event.

      But some conservative activists and journalists have challenged the Kochs’ critics, charging that what the oil billionaires are doing is simply advancing their deeply felt political views, which is no different than what wealthy liberal donors such as financier George Soros have been doing for years.

      Timothy Carney, a conservative columnist who spoke at this weekend’s Koch conference, noted that Common Cause itself had received a $2 million donation from Soros and the liberal Center for American Progress (whose Think Progress has encouraged anti-Koch activity) was started with Soros money but does not disclose its donors.

      “In other words,” he wrote about this weekend’s protests, “money from billionaire George Soros and anonymous, well-heeled liberals was funding a protest against rich people’s influence on politics.”

    • indypendent

      I’ve heard that argument but then one of the political pundits did bring up the fact that the Koch Brothers demand their groups’ secrecy.

      It was reported that attendees are guaranteed anonymity and there is a rule that no attendee is to talk to he press or not even share his/her notes.

      If this group is so proud to be American and only wants what is best – why all the secrecy?

  10. itolduso

    But I still have to wonder why the person who is complaining about it in the paper sat through it if they were so offended.


    Perhaps that is why the statement was made

    ” I am ashamed of myself for not standing up and leaving at that very moment”

    And used his/her real name.

  11. indypendent

    This is interesting. Who is to blame for this reality t.v. world we live in today?

    I think if the audience was not there, these shows would not be on the air.

    And the factor that television is now 500+ channels of 24/7 and that is alot of time to fill up. And reality t.v. is cheap to make and it is like gossip – they know it sells.

    • indypendent

      I have talked about that show ‘Toddlers and Tiaras’ previously on this blog. I watch as these parents go wild over their little girls looking like something out of a Vegas show.

      But what really made me angry was when this Christian momma actually prayed with her little girl and asked Jesus to let her win. Now, that was a WTF moment.

      BTW – that little girl did not win that day. Maybe Jesus did not like the girl’s costume, or her fake hair, or fake perfect white teeth (that she removes when not competing), or her little stiletto heels?

    • wicked

      I know someone who encouraged her young daughter to enter these contests by promising her a Cabbage Patch doll each time she won.

    • indypendent

      wicked – I was astonished at these parents (mostly moms but some dads were there) and their intensity of competition.

      These are not cheap events to attend. Thousands of dollars go into this business (and it is a big business) and I just have to wonder – why?

      I watched as one mom gave her little girl 7 pixy sticks (pure flavored sugar) to eat so that she would be ‘perky’ and ‘bubbly’ for the competition. I guess from what the mom said – this is a common trick that is used in this business.

      It’s sad – just plain sad.

    • indypendent

      When I was growing up, I did baton twirling. I entered competitions, won trophies, got my name in a Who’s Who Book for Baton Twirlers.

      But I was allowed to wear lipstick and rouge for the competition and the minute it was over, off came the makeup.

      But then I gave that up when I got into my teenage years.

      Some people might find that wrong – but my entire family was not wrapped up in my baton twirling and my parents never spent big bucks on my costumes. And I NEVER once was given lots of sugar to be perky or bubbly.

  12. fragotwofortwo

    remember liberals to cash your soros checks before the 180 day limit.

    official US response to egypt

    • indypendent

      I heard where Israel’s Netanayu (sp?) has been busy on the phones asking everyone to support Egypt President Mubarak.

      Like I stated above, this protest might just lead to a moderate president in the future, because these protesters are not chanting anything against Israel or the US. They are only chanting for Mubarak’s departure.

      But if we take the side of Mubarak and Netanayu without any consideration for what the protesting Egyptians want – which is jobs and free elections – then I would think that would be like throwing out a welcome mat for the radical Islamists to come in and hijack the current protest.

      Why do we seem to always stick with corrupt foreign leaders even when we know they are corrupt? It makes the US look like hypocrits when we preach democracy but yet we continue to help keep the corrupt in power?

      I suspect there is a deal being negotitated behind the scenes for Mubarak to resign adn be flown off to some safe haven. I just wonder how much it is going to cost us when all this is said and done?

  13. itolduso

    But what really made me angry was when this Christian momma actually prayed with her little girl and asked Jesus to let her win. Now, that was a WTF moment
    yeah, no kidding.
    BTW – that little girl did not win that day.

  14. fragotwofortwo

    if you just want to watch the video

    • indypendent

      It would be funnier if it was not so true. Isn’t this a fine mess we’ve gotten ourselves in?

      At the end of the day (or weeks for this chaos), I suspect corporations will get what they want and the rest of us can be damned.

      I heard on today’s news that 80% of the tourist trade has cancelled their trips to Egypt. Now that has got to hurt a country where tourism is a very big money maker.

  15. itolduso

    “Why do we seem to always stick with corrupt foreign leaders even when we know they are corrupt? It makes the US look like hypocrits when we preach democracy but yet we continue to help keep the corrupt in power”
    I agree. End all foreign government assistance. For governments that we like, and dislike. No favorites.

  16. indypendent

    Think Progress has encouraged anti-Koch activity) was started with Soros money but does not disclose its donors

    What’s the beef here? isn’t that what the Supreme Court just gave us with their recent ruling about Citizens United?

    I’ve never heard of George Soros guaranteeing anonymity to his followers and/or the rule of them talking to the press.

    But even if he did – if Koch and followers can do it – so can Soros.

    BTW – I wonder how those 400 rabbis are doing with their protest of Beck? Because, let’s face it, Soros has been on the Conservatives’ target list for a long, long time.

    I guess they just don’t like it when someone else has as much money as they do.


    • indypendent

      it sounds like it was a peaceful protest. There were some charged with trespassing but I never heard of any violence happening at this event.

      But, hey, abortion protesters were charged with trespassing also and they are viewed as saints.

  17. itolduso

    But even if he did – if Koch and followers can do it – so can Soros.

    Sure they can. And they can say whatever they want, it’s a free country. Each side can point the finger at the other and say tsk, tsk. And people from both sides cheer them on.

    • indypendent

      Hearing about the Koch group set-up made me think about that secret club the Skulls and Crossbones (is that the right name) that so many presidents and big whigs belong to?

      This was discussed when talking about the Bush family – does anyone else remember this secret club?

  18. itolduso

    What’s the beef here?
    None here. Just think it’s laughable. Kettle calling the skillet black. Both sides do it. And people lap it up.

  19. indypendent

    Here’s an interesting idea. But, if a family is already struggling – will having double the charitable deduction really going to help their own situation?

    • wicked

      indy, this has nothing to do with the struggling getting a double deduction by giving to a charity. It’s about giving another tax break to the wealthy. Why this woman thinks that will trickle down is beyond me. Too many charities the wealthy give to are nothing more than tax-free corporations. The Red Cross comes to mind immediately. I suppose they could use the extra donations they might get to buy more expensive paper on which to print the bills they send to the people who’ve received assistance. You see, this woman thinks the rich will give more to charities. How that will help unemployment is beyond me.

    • indypendent

      I’m glad to see that I was not the only one that was scratching my head after reading this article.

      Even if the goal is to get rid of poverty, how is a double charitable deduction going to help someone without a job or a home?

    • indypendent

      I think you used the code word for conservatives – trickle down -.

      The wealthy love those two words – don’t they?

    • indypendent

      Thanks for the link – I knew I did not have the correct name.

      Like my grandpa used to say – I was in the neighborhood but not at the correct house….

  20. indypendent

    Another ruling against the health care reform requirement of mandatory purchasing health insurance.

    If I am not mistaken, wasn’t this the part of the entire health care reform bill that Democrats knew would be challenged? But the health insurance companies sure did like the idea of mandatory customers.

    • A Republican appointed judge ruled against the Affordable Care Act (or part of it), color me shocked! 😉

      For this judge, for all who want to throw out this great start to reforming health care vs. improving it, I think this bumper sticker I saw recently is apropos: Lucky you! Stupidity isn’t a pre-existing condition!

    • What will be interesting is when this part of ACA gets to the SCOTUS and we see whether those Republican appointees go after the Commerce Clause.

  21. indypendent

    This could be the future of Egypt – if polls are to be believed.

  22. fragotwofortwo

    in order to stay fair and balanced

    I post it you decide

  23. indypendent

    As I watched the news coverage of that Koch secret meeting in California, I was reminded that certain Conservative Supreme Court Justices were listed among the supporters of some of the Conservative political groups that Koch funds.

    Excuse me – but I thought Supreme Court Justices strived to be seen as apolitical – or at least give the impression of being apolitical.

    No wonder the Citizens United ruling seems like an inside job.

  24. indypendent

    Here’s a listing of some possible 2012 GOP presidential candidates. It is a nice little group of political types that all have some major flaw……

    Color me shocked…

    • Yeah, major flaws!

      I still see the person who their base would nominate not being anyone electable since we know it takes more votes than the base comprises. By the time anyone passes their “tests” they’ve become wingnuts to anyone moderate.

  25. indypendent

    Now this is one thing I would never even think about when somebody mentions the Super Bowl.

    But obviously it is a big problem.

  26. Zippy

    Saudi Arabia needs to be in the cartoon.

    And popular democracy may be seen as mob rule, but I’ve always disagreed with that.

    Mob rule is when a minority rules by force, and the scary thing is that there are people in every country–and every state of the union–who are cool with that idea.

    But power by propaganda (as in the US) or the bludgeon (as in much of the Middle East) must eventually give way when the reality gets too much to bear.

    John McCain took a strong stand on Egypt. Will he even comment on the lunatics in the Arizona Legislature who call global warming a “hoax”–who are so unbelievably ignorant of basic atmospheric physics that they think it means everything gets hot?

    Fnord, I hope your mom is going to be okay. That’s what it comes down to. Us. Humans. I love America, and I love the ideals of America, all (wo)men created equal, the Bill of Rights, etc., none of which are self-enforcing.

    But countries are negotiation instruments, but the same forces that are screwing us are completely international, and require an international response. One sign in the Egypt protests: “Yes we can too.”

    Those who are overwhelmed should know that some of us will not be beaten down.

    P.S. Sorry for the rhetoric rave. I’m finding myself more and more in “big picture mode” these days, opining on all the information I’ve processed, rather than providing the information. Documentation–journalism–is more important than ever, and PPP provides a healthy amount of information on the ongoing madness of our world.

    And BTW, I’m not surprised if Bebe Netanyahu doesn’t like the protests. Israel’s bottom line is a contradiction: peace with its Arab neighbors, whilst treating the Palestinians like shit (though they do have Knesset representation).

    A truly democratic Egypt would dramatically change to US-Israel dynamic.

    Fox News has a permanent graphic of the Muslim Brotherhood, but. . . what do they think is going to happen if we snub human rights and democracy?

    (See Gaza: Hamas).

    Genuine popular democracy is not enforced with weapons, whether it’s the Egyptian security forces or rightist thugs in the US.

    • Zippy,

      Your words warm me and remind me of the good people (like you) who represent humanity best! Maybe one of the reasons PPP’s is the place we all enjoy (and Steven knew this well) is because we understand the benefits of long ties to people which keep us from our worst and basest behavior.