Sunday, 1/23/11, Public Square

A libertarian city planner, or bridge designer, or highway engineer...

50 Comments

Filed under The Public Square

50 responses to “Sunday, 1/23/11, Public Square

  1. Good morning PPP’s!

    I read this on another blog: In 2005, the federal government reported that they paid out $971.00 per public school student that year, in 2010, we spent $390,000.00 per soldier deployed to the war per year.

    If I can verify this, how can anyone including the stupid GOP think spending on public schools is a problem at the federal level? Unless our speculations about the GOP wanting to keep everyone dumb enough to vote for them are true. People who actually have critical thinking skills would see through their talking points too quickly.

    • I do understand how much wealth is accumulated by the few from waging wars, but it seems an area that can’t be ignored if we’re serious about cutting the debt.

  2. I must admit to my inability to avoid contrasting the care Medicare covers for my Mother to the care Gabrielle Giffords receives.

    In this country where all are equal there are many examples of inequalities.

    • CapnAmerica

      I’ve been immersing myself in WW2 lore and the rise of fascism in the 30’s these days.

      You know what the German liberals’ slogan was during the Nazi Reich?

      “After Hitler, us.”

      Of course, what happened was after Hitler, German cities were reduced to smoking ruins, their women violated, their children starved, their leaders executed, and their homeland occupied by foreign powers.

      There is no “after Hitler.”

  3. indypendent

    The right wingers do not hate the government as long as the taxpayer money is given to all the ‘right’ people.

    And the same goes for school funding. With all the right winger talk about school choice and school vouchers (which I could support), I suspect the real thing these right wingers want is the federal tax money with no strings attached.

    Follow the money……

  4. indypendent

    Looks like I have found something in agreement with the Tea Party. I wonder how much fancy tap dancing the House Speaker Johnny B and Minority Senate Leader Mitch McConnell are going to have to do to keep the TPers happy but still keep those military contractors happy and continue writing those donor checks?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/23/tea-partybacked-lawmakers_n_812720.html

  5. david B

    There is a State of the Union watch party invitation out there that I am considering accepting. Anyone want the details?

  6. wicked

    I decided to post this here so it wouldn’t get buried.

    While clearing off my desktop (computer, not the real desktop), I ran across a link I’d place there when doing some research on ADHD, clicked it, and discovered another view about Skins that made sense. Thought I’d share.

    It’s their portrayal of parents and teens that I think is really troublesome.

    http://www.empoweringparents.com/blog/technology-and-kids/mtvs-skins-parenting-just-got-one-hour-tougher/

  7. wicked

    Mike Pompeo at his first town hall since taking office:

    “If healthcare came to the floor of the United States Senate today there absolutely would be 51 votes to repeal it,” said Pompeo. “I’m confident of it.”

    He’s blowing smoke up the you-know-whats of voters. First, I disagree that there would be 51 votes to repeal, and even if that would happen, do voters understand that it’s not the end of it? Do they think Obama will NOT veto it?

    I admit that there may have been more to his statement. I wasn’t there, I didn’t hear it all with my own ears. But if he left it at that simple statement, he’s doing nothing more than continuing his campaign.

    I’m sitting here imagining what I would’ve done if I’d attended the town hall. I’d have to leave my offspring at home, because the first thing they’d do when I stood up to ask him if he was going to explain the rest of the process to the clueless in the room would be to yank me down and tell me to stop embarrassing them. 🙂 But really, come on.

    The Republicans, with nothing better to do than waste time and money, are using the taxes we pay to play games that will net the people absolutely nothing but more debt, higher taxes, and no jobs to pay those taxes.

    Sayonara, USA.

    • How many parents of young adults unable to find a job with benefits even after graduating college would be included in that 51%? How many with pre-existing conditions or those who’ve maxed out their lifetime benefits, Seniors who are so relieved they’ll both eat and make it through the donut hole. How about the small businesses who are now able to offer insurance coverage to employees because of the tax credits they get for doing so?

      Uh huh.

      I predict that taking those benefits away with repeal (and absolutely nothing to replace them with) with make some new Democratic voters! The GOP is a day late and a dollar short!

  8. fragotwofortwo

    couldn’t have said it better myself

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/23/sunday/main7274480.shtml

    Ben Stein’s Dream GOP Candidate? Barack Obama
    Says President Has Moved So Far to the Right He Offers Republicans Best Chance of Capturing the White House in 2012

    As everyone knows, the Grand Old Party has risen like a phoenix from the ashes of the 2008 defeat.

    The GOP controls the House, had big gains in the the Senate, has a gigantic swath of states with Republican governors, and is well-liked in the polls.

    What we do NOT have is a clearly viable candidate for President.

    Huckabee; Palin; Romney; Haley Barbour, who’s my own favorite – all have their pros and cons, but none stands out as a clearly winning alternative to Barack Obama.

    But wait a minute! Isn’t there someone out there who is Obama’s equal in oratory, charisma, and ability to draw votes who COULD run as a Republican?

    Why, yes there is: Barack Obama, his own self.

    YES!

    Think about it: Since the election of 2010, he is clearly moving in the direction of the Republican Party. He has completely signed on to the Republican position on tax cuts and kicking the deficit can down the road.

    Long since he signed onto the Bush position on the war in Afghanistan, he’s now swearing he will do something about government spending, even if it angers his most basic constituency, the government employee unions.

    • Yes, frago, I agree! You think those Tea Partiers and racists, along with those who hate Obama simply because he doesn’t have a little “R” behind his name can see this? No, I don’t either. They don’t see much very clearly.

      Any elected GOP person must satisfy their constituency by making fools of themselves to keep those silly campaign promises. Even those promises they knew couldn’t be kept when they made them! Like their silliness in the repeal vote which satisfied all those who elected them! Yep, read any of the blogs to learn about how that exercise in futility was approved of by their constituents! They have very low expectations of those they elect — wasting time and money proved they keep their promises. Uh huh.

    • CapnAmerica

      That’s hilarious . . . and sadly true.

      Remember when Candidate Obama said right before the ’08 election: “The transformation of the United States of America begins in five days!”

      Boy, I miss that guy, Candidate Obama.

      President Obama should let him out of Gitmo occasionally, or wherever it is that they’re hiding him.

  9. The State of the Union: What the President Should Say

    The President will have to devote a big part of his speech to the economy, but which economy? Corporate profits are up but jobs and wages remain in the doldrums. People with lots of financial assets, or who are deemed “talent” by large corporations, are enjoying a solid recovery. But most Americans continue to struggle.

    In order for the public to understand what must be done, the President has to be clear about what has happened and why. Corporations are profiting from sales of their foreign operations, especially in China and India. Here at home, they’re catering to rich Americans. But an important key to their profits is their reduced costs, especially payrolls. The result has been fewer jobs and lower pay.

    The Great Recession accelerated trends starting three decades ago — outsourcing abroad, automating work, converting full-time jobs to temps and contracts, undermining unions, and getting wage and benefit concessions from remaining workers. The Internet and software have made all this easier.

    He should point out that the U.S. economy is now twice as large as it was in 1980 but the real median wage has barely budged. Most of the benefits of economic growth have gone to the top.

    http://robertreich.org/post/2892661602

    • CapnAmerica

      It would have been nice if Robert Reich could have spoken out like this when he was Sec’ry of Labor under our last good Republican president, Bill Clinton . . . but better late than never.

  10. CapnAmerica

    Fnord–
    How do I minimize the text and just leave the title and the photo like your threads do?

    • In the top row of icons (the same row where you found the icon for adding a picture) you’ll find one that looks like a piece of paper that is separated into two pieces. If you place your cursor where you want the Post to stop showing and click that icon it will put in the words “continue reading.”

    • Did you also note that when you’re adding a photo you may place it three different ways (left, center, right) and that you may make it smaller?

      Cap’n, I like your tribute to Keith!

    • Change that! I went to look and found the icon isn’t in the top row, but in the second! The row that begins with the “B” for bold! Sorry, Cap’n!

    • Another little ‘hint’ about the “page break” icon. If you use it, it doesn’t show up if you “Preview.” Took me the longest time to realize that. I would think I had my Post the way I wanted it, but since I never trusted my abilities I would hit Preview to check how it would look after I hit Publish, and find no page break! Don’t know why this doesn’t work in Preview, just wanted to save you any frustrations.

  11. This one is for you, frago. And anyone else who is creative and this might inspire!
    ———————————-

    “Idea to Market in 5 Months: Making the Glif

    On July 11th, 2010, Tom Gerhardt and I had an idea for an iPhone accessory: a tripod mount that doubled as a stand. Five months later, customers began to receive our product, the Glif, in the mail. This turnaround, from idea to market in five months by two guys with no retail or manufacturing experience, signifies a shift in the way products are made and sold — a shift only made possible in the last couple years.

    The best compliment anyone could give us about the Glif project is that it inspired them to take their creative idea to fruition. The purpose of this piece is two-fold: to give an inside look at our creative process, and to offer guidance and inspiration for those who have their own ideas they’d like to see brought to reality.”

    http://www.therussiansusedapencil.com/

    • CapnAmerica

      Thanks for the help with blog editting, Fnord.

      I got ‘er done. This is a pretty intuitive set-up . . . you don’t need html experience to work it.

      I wish I’d got more involved with it when Iggy was still running things. I miss that guy.

    • I miss him too!

      He’s still running things, I always ask myself what Steven’s intent was for our blog. The key word was and is “our.” A small group of us used to get together for lunch about once a month — Steven, frago, 6176, Bluejay…, and we talked about a blog on and off for several months. Steven was especially upset by the way women were treated at WEBlog and he didn’t like the manner he conducted himself when he sunk to their level. Then one of the posters at WEBlog (I think AmWay) started talking about how The Wichita Eagle was in bad financial straits and their blog was surely going to close down (you know how he is always full of dire predictions and exaggerations). That and the toxic sewer atmosphere of WEBlog spurred Steven on and in March of 2009 he opened PPPs!

      He wanted you involved and would be happy you’re here. PPPs is a good place where everyone and all opinions are welcome, where we can throw out ideas, questions, and think out loud. Everyone has a part of this blog and everyone is appreciated!

  12. Zippy

    About that whole “Libertarian” governance thing in the cartoon:

    During the 90s, I found common cause with Libertarian tech types on a host of issues. Here’s one where I didn’t, and I would like to post the following letter in its entirety:

    April 18, 2001

    Governor Gray Davis
    State Capitol Building
    Sacramento, CA 95814

    Re: California Energy Crisis

    Dear Governor Davis,

    We would like to offer you our perspective and some recommendations for helping you solve California’s energy crisis.

    As Robert Glynn explained in an editorial in the San Francisco Chronicle (April 16), PG&E was forced into bankruptcy by a combination of unreimbursed costs, recent PUC decisions, and a lack of progress in negotiations. We think it is important that each of the three aspects mentioned by PGE be addressed in any plan to solve the crisis.

    The currently proposed 38-page MOU with SCE has a number of good provisions that protect the utilities from bankruptcies in the future, but unfortunately, the MOU does not go far enough in protecting both the utilities and the public. For example, the utilities have no assurances that the state won’t change the rules again. The public has no visibility into the cost of the deal and the source of funds, and the state seems to be obligated to pay the net short until 2002, even if the utilities are creditworthy before then. For these and other reasons, the MOU currently appears to be unacceptable to both the Legislature and also to PGE. However, we understand there is new data being supplied to the Legislature to address some of the missing information. We hope that you will continue to work collaboratively with the Legislature and the utilities to create an agreement that is acceptable by all parties. All parties clearly have a vested interest in reaching such an agreement and we hope that you will continue to remain open to changes so that a deal can be consummated.

    The 800 alternative energy suppliers (Qualifying Facilities or QFs) who provide power from wind, solar, and geothermal sources are collectively owed over $1B. Many are going out of business because none have them have been paid for months imperiling 25% of the energy on which California relies. So it’s critical that rate increases be sufficient for the IOUs to pay the QFs.

    Rate increases are also needed to cover the state’s bills for power. The state’s bills for buying power are threatening to exceed its ability to pay. The state’s sinking credit rating is endangering its ability to issue bonds. The state has been spending $50 million a day on power purchases since Jan. 17 and that number has recently risen to $73M per day. By some estimates, that number may exceed $100M per day during the summer. Controller Kathleen Connell said that the state’s cash on hand had fallen from $8.5 billion in January to $3.2 billion on March 21.

    A number of efforts are underway to increase supply and reduce demand. Efforts are also being sponsored in Congress by Senator Feinstein to require the FERC to impose temporary price caps to eliminate the price gouging that is occurring. Unfortunately, the leadership in Washington seems unresponsive to these requests. For example, Senator Feinstein can’t even get a date for a meeting with President Bush.

    While we applaud all of these efforts, here are twelve suggestions that we believe you should champion in parallel with these other efforts:

    * Ask the Legislature to pass a resolution asking the FERC to impose temporary price-caps in the western grid. If the California Legislature won’t support such action, how can we expect FERC to?
    * Quickly refine the SCE MOU. The MOU is a start, but there are still missing pieces. We’d encourage you to work with PGE and gather their objections. The SCE MOU should be something that PGE could accept as well, so share those objections with the Legislature. Be sure that all three reasons for PGE’s bankruptcy filing are addressed.
    * Change the players. Everyone has a an incentive to reach an agreement because the alternative is bankruptcy which puts the solution out of everyone’s control. A negotiated settlement should be possible if you have the right players sitting at the negotiation table and if they are given the proper direction. At this point, the direction to your negotiating team would be to ask the IOUs for the minimum set(s) of conditions that the IOUs require. Then you make the call whether to accept any of these or not, i.e., you have to decide whether forcing them into bankruptcy is a preferable alternative. If you can’t get to a settlement, change the players on your side.
    * Enforce the law: raise rates to cover costs. The intent of the current rate freeze was for the utilities to make a big profit to recover their stranded costs and then subsequently sell at cost. Never was intent to have the utilities subsidize selling electricity for below cost. The utilities believe that, by law, the rate freeze is over. Why not find out? Why not hire an accounting firm to determine when the exact date was? Then publicly ask the PUC to enforce the law, both as written and intended. If they fail to listen to you, ask the Legislature to pass a law requiring the PUC to stop requiring the utilities to sell for less than cost. You will be enforcing both the intent and the letter of the law, as well as providing the needed cash to pay the QFs. If you still think the utilities have been holding back cash, take them to court later. Let’s not add SCE and the state of California to the list of bankruptcies in the meantime. Raising rates to cover costs will also encourage conservation and it will send a message to the FERC that California is taking necessary economic steps to combat the crisis. In addition, you’ll have all the ratepayers in California on your side when asking the FERC for price-caps.
    * Spread the pain. Price increases should hit all sectors equally. Right now, under some proposals (not yours), industry will foot the major portion of the price increase. This will drive more industry out of the state.
    * Get out of the power business as soon as possible. Government should only enter businesses that can’t be served by private industry. Buying the investor owned utilities (IOUs) or their power lines solves nothing. It just transfers an asset from one balance sheet to another. That’s just a fancy accounting trick. It doesn’t create positive cash flow. It doesn’t create more power. It doesn’t reduce demand. It’s risky and unnecessary. If you enforce the law as written and as intended, the utilities won’t need to sell the state any assets because they will be able to collect on the debt that they are owed. Unfortunately, we aren’t aware of any public official who has asked the PUC to comply with the law and determine the date when the stranded costs were recovered. Why not?
    * Align everyone’s interests. Contract power purchasing back to the IOUs and let them keep a percentage of any cost savings. That way, power purchasing is done by experts and there is a financial incentive to purchase power at the lowest possible price. Everyone will win in that scenario.
    * Allow the IOUs to enter into long-term contracts. Forcing the IOUs to buy on the spot market doesn’t serve any purpose. While the PUC recognizes this, they seem unable to issue guidelines for purchase of long-term contracts. Why not ask the PUC to approve the exact same guidelines for the IOUs as the Department of Water Resources is using now to purchase power?
    * Stop trying to please everyone. There isn’t a solution that avoids referendums and protests. There isn’t a solution that everyone in the Legislature is going to like. No matter what happens, the ratepayers will end up paying the tab, so please act in a way to minimize our total costs. For example, a rate increase that covers costs will mean the IOUs will be able to pay the QFs. This would mean that the QF’s don’t go out of business or sell to the state on the spot market. So a rate increase done now will avoid huge costs later. We can’t afford to lose 25% of our power supply because of our failure to pay the QFs.
    * Develop a cohesive long-term plan for California energy. Part of that plan should involve efficiency. Wind and other renewables should play a major role. It should be drafted by a small committee with experts from alternative energy sources, power companies, etc.
    * Start negotiating with the power suppliers, not just the IOUs. The major power companies may be willing to adopt some concessions in return for certainty about the California market. But right now, all the talk is just the state asking for T’s and C’s on the sale of power to the state. That’s not very constructive. In return for a broader energy policy, a wider range of solutions may be available.
    * Create a small, qualified task force to suggest a workable action plan. If you don’t like the suggestions here or the suggestions from Enron, then select a five member task force of experts from the major constituencies who can work together and have them come up with one or more action plans that can be passed into law.

    Sincerely yours,

    Steve Kirsch, CEO, Propel
    Tony Ridder, Chairman and CEO, Knight Ridder
    Gordon E. Moore, Chairman Emeritus, Intel Corporation
    Wilf Corrigan, Chairman and CEO, LSI Logic
    Robert W. Frick, Former Vice Chairman of the Board, Bank of America
    William S. McKiernan, Chairman and CEO CyberSource Corporation
    L. William Krause, retired Chairman & CEO, 3Com
    Gary Lauder Lauder Partners
    Chris Alden, Vice-Chairman, Co-Founder Red Herring Communications, Inc.
    David F. Marquardt, Partner, August Capital
    Craig Taylor, Partner, Alloy Ventures
    DuBose Montgomery, Managing Director, Menlo Ventures
    David E. Liddle General Partner U.S. Venture Partners
    Bill Murphy Chairman and CEO Clos LaChance Wines
    Harry Motro, Managing Director, Motro Ventures
    Sam Perry, Founder and VP, NextSet Ventures
    Chet Kapoor, VP Marketing, KnowNow
    Gregory C. Gretsch, Sigma Partners
    John Gilmore, co-founder, Electronic Frontier Foundation
    Dan Lynch, Lynch Enterprises|
    Jeff McFadden, CEO, Gator.com

    Cc: California Legislature members

    http://skirsch.com/politics/power/power_actions.htm

  13. Zippy

    P.S. And, for those who don’t already remember, the Punchline:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/6/2/18531/26489

  14. indypendent

    I suspect Obama is moving to the right because he is gearing up for re-election. But I would not go so far as to label Obama ‘far right’.

    But given the choice between Obama and Sarah Palin, Huckabee, Barbour, Gingrich or any of the other far-righties – I’ll take Obama in a heartbeat.

    Maybe if Obama wins the re-election that is when the candidate Obama will return?

    Seriously, the majority of the country are socially liberal but fiscal conservative (until that fiscal stuff interrupts their monthly government check from coming).

    Let’s face – if any candidate dared to tell Americans the truth – that person would NEVER be elected to be dog catcher – let alone the president.

    • prairie pond

      Yeah, that’s what Sebelius and her cronies used to say. When she’s in her second term, candidate Sebelius will re-emerge.

      How did that work out? At least for my people, not so well. She never budged and inch on equality. Or water issues either. She remained as right wing and pandering as she always was.

      And all her budget shuffling and shell games? Left us where we are. At the mercy of brownback and an even MORE wingnutty legislature.

      I’ll hand it to her on one front, though. She knew when to get the hell out of the state before her governance caught up with her.

  15. CapnAmerica

    Green Bay vs. Pittsburgh in the Super-bowl in two weeks.
    GO PACKERS!

  16. indypendent

    Interesting article about the alleged Tucson shooter. It sounds like this case could take years. From what I’ve heard on MSNBC, there is a surveillance video that shows exactly what happened. So the facts of the case are not necessarily the hold up in this case – it is the possibility of him using the insanity defense.

    Note in the article if this guy is deemed incompetent, he could be sent to a mental institution to see if they can restore his sanity. And that placement could take up to four months – just to get in to the the place.

    Unbelievable….
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41220113/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

    • wicked

      I’ve always said someone had to be crazy to kill someone. (Remember that if I ever need to use the insanity plea, okay?)

      The guy needs help, there’s no denying that. I think there’s a lot we don’t know.

    • indypendent

      I just found it unbelievable that there is a 4-month waiting list to even place him in some mental health facility.

      Four months? Wow – alot can happen in four months, huh?

      With the coming budget cuts that Republicans want to make – I wonder how high a priority keeping mental health facilities is going to be on their list?

  17. Zippy

    Being judged incompetent to stand trial isn’t a “get out jail free” card. And if/when he’s judged competent, he would have to agree to the insanity defense.

    In other news, welcome to post-2010 Arizona: A black Republican, Anthony Miller, elected Precinct Committee Chairman, quits after threats and Giffords shooting:

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/ahwatukee/articles/2011/01/11/20110111gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-resignations.html

    Tom Morrisey, the man Miller defeated for this relatively minor position, despite the backing of Sheriff Joe Arpaio, just defeated Senator Jon Kyl’s handpicked candidate for Chair of the Arizona State Republicans, again with the backing of Arpaio.

    http://azstarnet.com/article_94bb2e9d-a067-58b1-
    a511-c1176cc3f2d1.html

    At best, a handful of scary, delusional people who believe every bit of clownish propaganda they’re fed.

    At worst, an armed minority that wants to rule by intimidation.

    I report. You decide.

  18. Zippy

    Corrrection: Anthony Miller was the Chairman of Legislative District 20 . Still fairly minor, but not insignificant, and the district are Senate districts.

    • indypendent

      I seriously think these Republicans are going to overplay their hand. The majority of them are arrogant and that always brings them down.

  19. Zippy

    Hey, since I’m still awake, just a reminder that not all the news from Arizona is creepy or bad.

    An Email From Giffords’ Parents


    “The surgeons are ecstatic… Spence and I are humbled by the outpouring of love and prayers and overwhelmed with gratitude. There are thousands of people who have responded with cards, flowers,
    FOOD (we’re feeding all the cops and federal marshals in UMC 3 square meals a day as well as folks in two other patient waiting rooms … almost like the loaves and fishes).

    — Every day Gabby improves and shows higher levels of comprehension and complex actions. Yesterday when Mark came back from speaking at her aide’s memorial service, she reached up and untied his tie…

    — Early this morning she began to read cards made for her by some 4th graders! Her unbandaged eye
    tracked the lines, she opened the cards and turned them over reading the back. Mark’s gotten pages of large print of Harry Potter’s 1st book for her to hold and read…

    — Her eyes appear to be fine … no optic nerve damage they believe. She came through with flying colors and all her neurological functions, temp., blood, etc., normal.

    — They are even now having her move limbs on command. So now comes the “true grit” part … and won’t be a stroll in a park although Mark predicts she’ll be up and walking around in 2 weeks. The physical and occupational therapy will proceed side by side and it’ll be stringent.

    From out-cold to Harry Potter in two weeks. Wow.

    http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2011/01/23/an-e-mail-from-giffords-parents

    And still my representative in Congress.

    • prairie pond

      Hi Zippy. I read the other day that Gabby’s mom graduated from Colby, Kansas high school. Did anyone else know that? She’s been back for class reunions and hosted one reunion in AZ.

      Small world, huh?

  20. Zippy

    P.S. And yeah, it sucks that health-care in America still sucks, unless you can afford it. The worse thing about the health care bill it does so little in the short term, and keeps most of the same players in place.

    But it’s gonna be a rough(er) ride the next two years, no matter what. Indypendent is exactly correct, but that doesn’t mean the Republicans can control what’s they’ve started. Even Roger Ailes is going “Oh, shit!”

    What we will need is less rhetoric and heavy doses of what cartoonist David Fitzsimmons called Gabby’s “evidence-based reasoning.”

    And while I’m very wary of Hitler analogies, Capn, I highly recommend The Life and Times of Albert Einstein by Ronald W. Clark. It was also necessarily a review of the political climate leading up to Hitler’s rise to power, and the effect on one smart, famous Jewish guy.

    • prairie pond

      Zippy, lately I’ve come to the heavy realization, from living out here in the state of Kansastan and the province of Wingnuttia, that people do NOT form their opinions from evidence, logic or reasoning. In a nutshell (pun intended) they are just to lazy to do any evaluation beyond what their church or Fux News tells them. I thought maybe they just were not getting good information. But I see now that even when evidence and truth are presented to them, they just drool and stare blankly.

      They really do follow the mantra to “Vote Republican, It’s Easier Than Thinking.”

    • Zippy

      It’s a bit of a lose-lose. If you try to parse into effective, understandable language, you’re accused of “mind control,” but if you go full-tilt wonk, then your talky words make ears mad.

      I think discrediting the Wingnuttia Nation to its own purveyors is the way to go, which is not the same thing as sliming them. In short, turn their own rhetoric against them in a way that also makes rational sense and allows you to look in the mirror the next morning.

      “So, Pelosi Hates Freedom and the Constitution? Oh, do tell!”

      The thing is, not all of them are hardened Fox-heads. It will take time.

  21. GMC70

    Well, it’s clear the cartoonist doesn’t know anything about libertarianism.

    • indypendent

      The message I got from the cartoon that people are basically responsible for themselves and should not expect any help from the authorities – ie: lifeguard.

      And isn’t that what a Libertarian is all about?

      Self independence, no rules, no regulations and only the strong survive?

    • CapnAmerica

      GMC is right. If the cartoonist really understood libertarians, the “lifeguard” would be picking the pockets of the dead.

      That’s what the KOCH’s would do . . . well, actually, they’d pay somebody to pick the pockets . . .

    • CapnAmerica

      GMC is the guy who says at the drop of the hat that “liberals only believe in free speech for me, never for thee.”

      Yet here stands his post.

      Wonder how long I’d last at Free Republic, heh.

  22. Zippy

    If we’re talking about Big L libertarianism–the same kind that makes Penn Jillette’s ideology overrule his normal commitment to improving rationality, and oppose public libraries–then the cartoonist got it exactly right.

    And, having known a number of those types, they seem to have this disease that makes them extremely sensitive to abuse of government power while utterly blind to similar (or even worse) abuses in the private sector.

    The also seem to take a laissez-faire attitude to private-sector money overruling democracy worldwide, though I’ll admit I haven’t checked in with them for a while.

    • CapnAmerica

      They also get very quiet about their opposition to the Iraq War, to stopping abortion, and to drug prohibition at their T-bag rallies.

      No need to let the masses know the full agenda . . .