Monday, 1/10/11, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

86 responses to “Monday, 1/10/11, Public Square

  1. wicked

    Obviously our gun purchasing laws don’t do any good.

    “…Loughner’s behavior also began to worry officials at Pima Community College, where Loughner began attending classes in 2005, the school said in a release.

    Between February and September, Loughner “had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions,” the statement said. He was suspended in September after college police discovered a YouTube video in which Loughner claimed the college was illegal according to the U.S. Constitution.

    He withdrew voluntarily the following month, and was told he could return only if, among other things, a mental health professional agreed he did not present a danger, the school said.

    Police said he purchased the Glock pistol used in the attack at Sportsman’s Warehouse in Tucson in November.

    I guess schools don’t report whack jobs.

    When does personal freedom end and safety of others begin?

  2. wicked

    Sorry. Here’s the link to the above. (Gotta cite those quotes. 😉 )

  3. Now the paranoia of the gun nuts will increase. Someone, someplace mentioned guns and they’re going to exaggerate that — “they’re going to take away our guns, after all THEY are democrats!” Rational people see that interactions that indicate mental instability should be reported so we keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people.

    • wicked

      And that’s all I ask for, that keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people.

      Trying to be rational about this, I suppose it’s entirely possible that whatever happened at the college couldn’t be reported. That’s one of those touchy areas. But if campus police were involved and there were records… The argument though would be that those records are private, and if every person who seemed a bit “off” were considered nutso, there’d be hell to pay.

      So here’s a question, and I don’t know if anyone here can answer. Steven could have, I’m sure. 😦 If a person is treated for a mental disorder, is that information available when checks are made when buying a firearm? I’m guessing no. Millions of people see shrinks and counselors, etc.. I admit I did at one time. But if the person is hospitalized, would that make a difference? IOW, just what information is available on a gun check? (It’s times like these that Nathan would be a big help.)

      You see, I want to understand before I go off half-cocked. (That was not intentional.)

  4. indypendent

    Wouldn’t any mental health counseling or hospitalization records fall under HIPPA – the privacy act?

    But what would not fall under any privacy restrictions would be this alleged shooter’s website postings and/or his involvement in any outside group such as an anti-government group on the Internet. As I understand it, public forums are just that – public.

    • wicked

      Yes, I’m sure those things would fall under HIPPA, which is what I was thinking as my mind wandered and questioned.

      Correct on the website thing, too, but who would notice? People who visited and agreed would keep quiet, and those who didn’t wouldn’t think to report it to anyone. People don’t want to get involved that way. Think about it. If you’d seen what he’d written, you’d write is off as a nutjob and forget it. Even if you gave a thought to reporting it, who would you report it to? The police? Unless he’d made an actual threat, I’m not so sure they could do anything. Just being crazy doesn’t get you hospitalized. You have to either harm yourself or someone else. Or threaten to.

      I believe in laws protecting individuals, because without them, we become a police state, but not everyone knows or is able to handle freedom. This young man obviously needed help, and I wonder if his parents noticed it. Friends obviously did, but tended to try to ignore it.

      It’s very sad. He’s only a year older than my youngest.

      You can’t just send someone to a hospital because they talk crazy. They have to have stated they are planning to harm themselves or someone else. Having watched some of this up close recently, it’s a real mess and can be used in the wrong way by people who aren’t trained to make a determination.

      Is this what we call a slippery slope?

    • indypendent

      Even if someone did report the public forum comments – how could any action be taken if this young guy had not actually threatened anyone?

      More likely,any of those public forum comments might now play a role in this guy’s trial.

      I agree with you about not wanting to become a police state. If we profess to be a free country, then we should also have the responsible behavior to be just that – free.

      Free speech is a guaranteed right in this country . But we do not have the right to incite violence with that free speech – and that is the slippery slope – IMHO

    • Yes there are many reasons to be careful about labeling people! Misdiagnosis occur and I’ll bet it could be more difficult to get rid of the label than the diagnosis that was incorrect.

  5. indypendent

    I am finding it interesting this morning that televangelist Pat Robertson still sits there and talks about the poor persecuted Christians – especially in the Muslim countries.

    He even labeled these countries -the enemy.

    Isn’t that just another form of hate speech? I suspect he is just doing this as his usual schtick to bring those millions in to fight the enemy. But, still, he is sitting there labeling all Muslims as the enemy. And then when the right labels Obama as a Muslim – isn’t that just fanning the the thought of ‘the enemy’ even further?

    • indypendent

      As a reminder – wasn’t Pat Robertson also the man that told his followers they should pray for certain Supreme Court justices to have a heart attack?

      Any self-professing Christian preacher who says a statement like that needs to be kicked to the curb – IMHO

    • wicked

      Sometimes Karma doesn’t come until much later. From what I remember, St. Peter is good at dishing it out. 🙂

      Yes, it is hate speech, and a good Christian wouldn’t be doing it. But Pat knows that inciting others brings viewers, which brings dollars. It was a sad day when the first person realized that religion could a money-making opportunity.

    • I’m not a fan of Robertson and I think he does a terrible injustice to true believers, but maybe his show was taped in advance.

    • indypendent

      I don’t think this show was taped because they were talking about other recent news. But I’ve heard Robertson fan the hatred against Muslims many times before.

      I know that he has fanned the talk about sharia law being set up in America. I heard him myself one day talk about that.

      This old guy was also instrumental in that New York Mosque debate that went on and on…. in that instance he stated that Muslims always build their mosque in the center of their destroyed enemies (in this case, the WTC) to show their dominance and victory.

      hey, with fighting words like that – what could possibly go wrong?

  6. indypendent

    I heard Jonathan Alter on MSNBC just now and he stated that he does not blame Sarah Palin and her infamous map with the bullseye targeting certain politicians for causing this tragedy in Tucson.

    But he does blame Sarah Palin and everyone else on both sides for the political climate of all this hate and violence.

    And that is what I think alot of people are missing here – . For those on the right defending the thought that they are not responsible for the shooting and we should put the blame on the shooter – I agree that the shooter is ultimately responsible for the shooting.

    But the climate of hate and violence certainly does play a role in all this crap going on. I still remember those McCain/Palin rallies during the 2008 presidential candidate. Some of those videos were sickening.

    • itolduso

      Only one comment, and noargument from me. While you look at the terrible, evil, Nazi right wingers and conservatives, and outta be dead REPUBLICANS for their pollution of the political mindset, you might want to look in your own back yard. Easy google searches, or a look at DailyKos and othe sites,incluiding this one, shows plenty of hate to go around. But then, I am sure that is what you meant.
      Perhaps the word “brownshirt” in referring to a Republican doesn;t mean anything. Or, in the words posted elsewhere, by a poster here “every time a Republican dies, another gay angel gets his wings” Probably mean nothing, huh.

      Yeah. sure.

    • indypendent

      Did you read my posting where both sides are blamed?

      My only comment was the last sentence about those McCain/Palin rallies during 2008. And those were sickening…..

      So – where is the argument?

  7. indypendent

    It was a sad day when the first person realized that religion could a money-making opportunity.

    It was also a sad day when Reagan invited the Religious Right into that GOP circus tent and gave them power just in Reagan’s quest for more votes.

  8. indypendent

    I am hearing alot of discussion on how we can learn from this tragedy, etc.

    But my fear is – this story will be forgotten the minute the next big news story hits.

    That seems to be the way our society is – we cannot focus on one thing for too long. Our attention span is very limited.

  9. indypendent

    Back to the gun permit application – I don’t know much about that because I’ve never personally bought a gun.

    But I do know of a man who went to Walmart to buy a gun and when he presented his drivers license with his former address listed (he had moved the previous year), he was told that his application would have to take longer to come back due to his drivers license address not matching up with the information that he had given.

    So this man left Walmart and simply went to the next Walmart down the street and listed his old address and walked out with the gun.

    So, no matter how many rules there are put into place – there will be a way around them. And then we get into the gun shows – where it used to be all those rules did not even apply (is that still the way the gun shows work?)

    Personally, I think we have enough gun rules – what we need are responsible people.

  10. indypendent

    Speaking of birthers…….seems their leader still has to pay that fine…..

    • wicked

      I read somewhere within the past couple of weeks that Hawaii’s governor is thinking of releasing Obama’s official birth certificate (the one that is never released) to get those birthers to stfu.

    • indypendent

      I also read where the Hawaii governor was friends with Obama’s parents, so wouldn’t he have first-hand knowledge as to their baby’s birth.

      Ah, but you see that is the rub – in the conspiracy world – since the governor was friends with Obama’s parents – he is in on the whole conspiracy thing.

      Now you see the light – don’t you?


  11. wicked

    Here’s one for the LOL records.
    Mary Bono Mack Caught In Sexually Suggestive Photos
    (Yes, that would be Sonny Bono’s widow)

    • indypendent

      I saw that. But, hey, Republicans must see nothing wrong with this type of behavior. After all, look at the many examples of their male Republican colleagues who manage to get themselves entangled in their own sex scandals and are still re-elected by all those ‘family values’ voters.

      BTW – Did anyone else notice that Elizabeth Edwards cut John out of her will? Now that is how a Democrat takes care of a cheating husband. LOL

      Hit them where it hurts the most – in the wallet.

    • wicked

      It’s not that I see anything wrong with what the woman was doing–as long as she’s single–but it’s one of those things that, as you say, the GOP tries to cover up or ignores their own stated values. I guess for some, saying something and doing the opposite is okay. I do believe there’s a word for that… (grin)

      Yes, I noticed Elizabeth left John nothing. Good for her!

  12. indypendent

    I had to laugh a few weeks back when some political news show was showing videotapes of the old Contract with America days and Sonny Bono was in the front row waving his American flag along with the rest of the Contract-bots.

    I thought Newt Gingrich promised us that the Contract with America was going to fix everything???

    That was nothing more than a dog and pony show – much like the first day of this new Congress was last wednesday.

  13. I don’t know about the merits of this group, and in fact, this is the first I’ve heard of this documentary. We should keep our ears open to see if we can find out what it’s about.


    “PRICELE$$” is a must-see documentary for all Americans. It is the “Inconvenient Truth” for the movement to restore a government that is OF, BY, FOR The People, not the funders. Large corporations in the oil industry, banking industry, agrochemical industry, and health insurance industry have more influence over our elected representatives than We The People.

    How much does it cost to run for a U.S. Senate seat? One million dollars? Two? Four? Only if you want to lose. The cost of running for office has grown so large that only a tiny sliver of Americans can donate anything significant, or dream of running themselves.

    • indypendent

      I wonder if this group has any connection to the No Labels group?

      But, hey, when the SCOTUS thinks corporations are an actual person – we are all screwded, aren’t we?

    • wicked

      Interesting. Having been involved in agriculture in the past, I can truthfully say that it has become BIG BUSINESS. Family farms are dwindling. I know we hear so much about farm subsidies, but unless you own or farm (by lease) a boatload of land, you aren’t getting a boatload of money from subsidies. Those HUGE subsidies are going to the corporate farms.

      Take a look at some of the farming areas around here. Or what used to be farmland. Much of that is now housing developments. Why? Because farmers can make more money by selling off some of their farmland to developers. This probably goes to pay those bank loans for machinery and all the rest of the huge farming expenses. The small, family farmers can’t make enough money to live on, much less pay for machinery, repairs, seed, fuel, and all the rest. Not around here, although there are some large family operations in this area. Most farmers I know also work a regular job. For many, farming is an expensive hobby.

    • wicked

      I was impressed by one of the boys and one of the girls who appeared to be educated about our government. Either that, or they heard their parents talking. 🙂

    • indypendent

      wicked – I agree with you about the status of the family farms.

      And when I talk about farm subsidies – I am not talking about the individual farmers – I am talking about the big business corporate farms.

      If these Tea Party Republicans are serious about cutting out federal spending, theny I wonder how many actually know where most of the federal subsidies are going?

      Like I said last week – subsidized housing has now become big business. There are apartment complex corporations who depend on the federal government for those housing subsidies for their profits.

      And not only profits for the corporations getting those subsidies, but sometimes it is profitable for the politicians who are involved in the deal.

      For example – my family lives south of Chicago. A few years ago, a huge project housing was shut down in downtown Chicago due to deplorable building conditions. Rather than to rebuild in Chicago, the powers to be made a deal to move this entire housing project down state just a mere 70 miles down the road and the local politicians got their cut of the deal and the local city police have their hands full with all the new housing project residents that followed.

      There is a social cost to moving such a huge project housing into a town but I suspect those who profited from the deal don’t really care because it is not in their backyard.

      Whenever there are huge federal subsidies involved – there will be greed, abuse and fraud – IMHO

    • indypendent

      BTW – back home we have our share of Tea Party Republicans who rant against paying taxes but yet probably have no idea as to who profited from that housing project move into town.

      As I have mentioned before, I grew up in a very dyed-in-the-wool Republican state and it has not changed much since I left there in 1977.

    • wicked

      indy, I know you’re aware of the condition of family farms, and now I can grieve for subsidized housing. Like with farming in the past, it helps people live decent lives.

  14. indypendent

    I just heard Charlie Cook on MSNBC with Andrea Mitchell. The topic was about the political rhetoric.

    Cook said something that I think is being missed in all this debate about the current political climate. He noted that the political climate seems to be such an apocalyptic tone now.

    As I thought about what this man said, I have to wonder how much of this apocalypticism is due to people mixing religion and politics?

    And then when the Social Conservatives will tell you upfront that they will never compromise, what alternative do they have when these folks don’t get their way?

    Sharron Angle out of Nevada even stated there was the Second Amendment remedy for people to use. Palin had her infamous maps with targets and crosshairs targeting those political districts she wanted out.
    But when a politician is also famous for saying the phrase – don’t retreat, reload. Is that really very helpful?

  15. indypendent

    Words have consequences.

    But I find it very telling that the main Conservative Republican political entertainers have all kept a very low profile since this shooting.

    Kinda like the way those anti-abortion groups were so quick to say that Scott Roeder was not connected with their group.

    Yeah, sure.

    • indypendent

      By all accounts, this alleged shooter was anti-government.

      And I don’t recall any Democratic politicians every saying that the government is evil or wants to take over our lives.

      But I do recall many Conservative Republican politicians saying the government is evil and wants to take over our lives.


  16. indypendent

    I went to Fox News website to see what they had to say about the Tucson shooting.

    And I agree with the premise that we should not be assigning blame until an investigation has been done on this alleged shooter and his motives.

    But all I’ve heard are the debates over how our political rhetoric has or has not influenced this type of violence.

    I find it interesting that in their quest to prove they had nothing to do with this shooting, they are protesting just a bit loudly and perhaps just a tad bit too much protesting?

    • indypendent

      And perhaps they are putting their own political spin on this tragedy.

      Isn’t that something they accus the left of doing?

    • wicked

      It’s CYA time, and they know it. They have to hit back hard or they know they’ll lose the “debate.”

      None of us know if the shooter was a Fox News watcher or heard anything else, but the chances that he’d heard enough (from either side) are pretty good. We ALL have to reign in the partisan rhetoric, and we have to do it now or this could become more serious than any of us imagine.

    • indypendent

      I heard someone make the comment that what was once seen as off limits in a political debate is now seen as fair game.

      And with each shift of where the boundaries lie – there will always be people who will push those limits even further. There will always be people who are trying to ‘out-do’ the other guy.

      At some point, what was once non acceptable is now accepted and becomes the norm.

      I think that is why our society has become more violent in the past few decades. We have all become desensitized, so it takes more and more violence to make us react in horror.

  17. itolduso

    Words have consequences.

    Yes they do.

  18. indypendent

    wicked wrote: indy, I know you’re aware of the condition of family farms, and now I can grieve for subsidized housing. Like with farming in the past, it helps people live decent lives

    I have no problem with helping people pay for their housing but I think in order to lift people up out of poverty, people need to be able to help themselves.

    The current subsidized housing program is helping these corporations and/or single landlords to keep as many people under their thumb as possible. Where is the incentive for those landlords to lose a monthly check from the government if that person actually becomes self sufficient?

    that is my entire problem with the program.

    I watch the Pawn Stars television show (have you heard of that)? One day a customer came in to sell some old miner coins. These were coins that the miners were paid for their salaries but the catch was – these coins were only good at the company’s store.

    What a sweet deal – huh? That is the tragedy I see in alot of our social govenrment programs like subsidized housing. We give it to the people with one hand but we always seem to keep them down with the other hand.

    Does my rambling make sense?

    • indypendent

      I would much rather have my tax dollars go into creating living wage jobs in America and everyone can get health insurance.

      Not only would we be having more tax revenue, our citizens would have the feeling of self sufficiency and with that comes self pride.

      I think we have raised too many generations that expect the government to help them out because we have done so. But we have not helped these same people to try to become self sufficient.

      And why should these folks become self sufficient only to work a minimum wage job and lose all the help that they currently receive? It comes down to just a matter of survival.

      Like I stated before – where is the incentive for someone to do better if our society and economy is not set up to provide a way to do better?

  19. indypendent

    Republican Tom Delay is sentenced today. I wonder if he will pack his dancing shoes? (I know, that’s mean but I just could not resist the temptation.)

    • indypendent

      Does the Speaker of the House have the power to pardon? If not, I wonder how long the new GOP will be giving themselves that power grab?

      It might help poor Tom

  20. indypendent

    And now we have the talking points from the Conservative Right…..

    Correct me if I am wrong, but has anyone on the political entertainment Right ever said once since this shooting that perhaps they do need to tone down their rhetoric?

    Has that ever been said by anybody – if so, who?

    maybe it’s time the real Republicans retake their party and kick these radical fringies to the curb?

    • indypendent

      You know, the arrogance of this radical right is astonishing. This time they might just be feeling a backlash because I think the majority of Americans are moderates and they are getting tired of buffoons.

      It will be equally astonishing if the radical left returns with hate rhetoric. Because I think they will feel the same backlash if they come off as too arrogant,.

      there is a reason the fastest growing political group are the Independents.

      Adn thet Independents are watching both sides.

    • Extremism is the common enemy. There are extremists in every religion and we need to recognize, acknowledge and fight those extremists wherever they are, inside and outside our own country’s borders.

      Thousands of Egyptian Muslims Show Up as “Human Shields” to Defend Coptic Christians From Terorism

    • Violence and hate rhetoric is higher today than I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. Fox News is a so-called ‘news’ organization that spreads lies and hate 24 hours a day.

    • Indy, I remember how Palin stirred up hate in those political rallys leading up to the 2008 elections. Nowadays she gets paid by Fox to do the same thing.

  21. G-STIR

    Tsom Delay was just sentenced to 3 years for money laundering. Since that is a Federal sentence, do you suppose we could send him to Michail Vick’s old cell in Leavenworth? Welcome to Kansas!

    • G-STIR

      My mistake- It’s not a Federal crime- it’s a Texas thing.

    • And he’s out on bail pending appeal. Don’t most people stay in jail after sentencing while their lawyers prepare appeals? Justice is for sale!

    • indypendent

      That going to jail thingy is only for those who truly deserve it – you know, like the poor and minorities.

    • I guess so. He was found guilty, he was sentenced… I know where you or I would be under these circumstances.

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      For those who can post the appeal bond and who are found by the court not to be a flight risk, especially where the crime is not violent it is common for a defendant to be released pending appeal.

    • indypendent

      Does the convicted have to ask the court to be out on bail until the appeal is heard or is this an automatic thing?

    • indypendent

      fnord – I know where I would be if that was me – since I don’t have the money to post the appeal bond.

      I guess that’s where the poor part comes in………

  22. indypendent

    fnord – Thousands of Egyptian Muslims Show Up as “Human Shields” to Defend Coptic Christians From Terorism
    thanks for sharing this link as to how Muslims defended Christians.

    To hear televangelist Pat Robertson speak – all Muslims hate Christians. (at least that is what I got from his little rant this morning),

    I think what you have shown by posting this link is that there are good people everywhere and we only need to look outside of our own selves to see which ones are good and which ones are bad.

    maybe this Tucson shooting will have a bright side and that would be to make more people aware of the big picture.

    I still cling to my belief that most people are generally good. And if treated with dignity and respect, most people will return in kind.

    We need to get back to the view that agreeing to disagree is okay. It is not some symbol of failure if our way is not exactly what is done. And for the love of Pete, can we please get away from this political rhetoric that my god is bigger than your god crap?

    I just watched Arizona Gov Brewer on television. She said that she wanted to step forward together and do the Lord’s work. What???

    I wish these self-professing godly people would think as to how that sounds to someone who is not of the same religion and does not agree with the Lord’s work?

    If this governor would have just stopped at ‘lets work together to go forward’ – she would have been great.

  23. indypendent

    But you know – everyone is talking about this Tucson shooting and we are seeing political spin coming out the wazoo…

    but I’m afraid that this story willl soon fade away when the next big story hits…

    and the hatred and violent rhetoric will continue on as before – only it will grow stronger.

    This hate filled society is a cancer and the best way to get rid of cancer is to cut it out and then continue radiation and/or chemo treatments to keep it dead.

    We need to keep this issue alive and well and we need to hold our politicians and political entertainers accountable for what they say and do.

    But, unfortunately, violence and hate talk is a huge money maker. Hasn’t that been proven time and time again?

  24. A really cool interactive weather map! Move your cursor around the map and see what the current temperatures and weather conditions are in cities all over the country!

  25. indypendent

    I worked for a Muslim doctor. He and his wife went on their sabbatical (?) to Mecca. I think this is a trip that each Muslim must make at least once in their lives, if I remember correctly.

    This doctor spent at least $10,000 to get there and then they spent 3 weeks there. While doing this religious requirement, they each had to live in a tent – he was with hundreds of men and she was with hundreds of women.

    Now I ask you, how many self-professing Christians would go through that type of living arrangements and spend that kind of money for their religion?

    I still remember the days when church did not serve coffee and donuts to the people who came!

    From listening to the doctor and his telling of his religious experience, I had to give him credit for such determination and dedication to his faith.

  26. Everyday peaceful existence doesn’t get much attention, and it sure isn’t interesting enough to fill the airwaves 24/7. It’s the most extreme, the most radical we hear about most often. We forget that is the extreme and let it have too great an impact.

    • indypendent

      Do you remember the Mark Twain quote about a lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth puts on its shoes?

      I guess it’s just human nature to believe any lie – as long as it is what you want to hear.

  27. indypendent

    Well, finally the Fox News head honcho has come out publicly to have his entertainers to tone down the rhetoric.

    But he just could not help himself to give that back-handed flippant answer as to the ‘other side’ .

    When will someboy in American political entertainment finally grow up?

    • “He said that any attempts to connect Fox News or the Tea Party to the shooting were “bullshit,” and that “both sides” were responsible for extreme rhetoric.”

      No one has given any examples of anyone in the public eye on the ‘left’ making the kinds of violent comments that the ‘right’ — candidates and media — made leading up to the 2008 elections and continuing since President Obama was elected. Has anyone heard one example of that kind of comment made by any media person or candidate from the left?

    • All these blanket statements need to be backed up with specifics.

    • indypendent

      Well, I guess it depends on what you call extreme rhertoric. I have heard some on the left question the Tea Party members as being wackos.

      But being called a wacko is a far cry from Sharron Angle saying that Americans have the Second Amendment remedy or Sarah Palin putting up a map with gun sites and crosshairs targeting those politicians she wants to take out. And then Sarah Palin did say several time – don’t retreat, reload.

      so, I guess being questioned as being a wacko might be deemed tame – don’t you think?

    • indypendent

      I think wicked was correct in her assessment – CYA

      And I do have to clarify something – I don’t think Sarah Palin or anyone else on the right’s rhetoric caused this particular alleged shooter to go on a killing spree.

      But when there is nothing but 24/7 political rhetoric where outlandish things have been said and nobody is reprimanded – that gives the listeners to all this talk the sense of urgency to do something to correct it.
      But it is interesting to note – that MSNBC have reprimanded their people for getting too far extreme – has Fox News ever reprimanded anybody for going too far on their network?

      I’m just curious.

    • wicked

      The last violent rhetoric and speech that came from the Left was in the ’60s.

    • We could all make a looooong list of hateful statements made by Beck, Rush, Coulter, O’Reilly, Robertson, Palin, Bachmann… The list of those on the right who made these kinds of statements is long also. I’m not talking about the idiot inflammatory signs at the tea parties, I’m talking about those who have a seat on the public stage. We have over the last few days given several specific examples. All I’ve heard about hateful statements from the left are accusations that bloggers, like Indy and me and frago, have made here on the blog, and general statements about how both sides need to tone it down. NO specifics on what those from the left who have the public’s ear have said, just generalities.

  28. indypendent

    This is an article about Sen Michael Bennett of Colorado was threatened just 2 days before the Tucson shooting.

    In reading this article, the common factor seems to be mentally unstable people making all these threats. So, what’s next – we go back to the days of locking up all mentally unstable people and throwing them into some snake pit?

    And then the question would be – who determines if someone is mentally unstable?

    Our country should be better than this and we need to get a grip on this problem.
    But I’m sure with all those fine patriots that don’t want to pay taxes – the mentally ill people will be the first on the to-do list with tax revenue we do get in – right?
    that is, right after those billions for all those war weapons and bombs we need to drop on everyone we don’t like.

  29. I just received a telephone call from Mrs. tosmarttobe. Our dear friend had a massive heart attack this afternoon. He shoveled the drive and sidewalks and went inside, called Mrs. tosmarttobe at work and told her he felt really bad. She asked if she should call an ambulance but he said no. A friend at work drove her home and then drove she and he to the hospital (I have the location for anyone who wants specifics — email me). They shocked him over 20 times to get him going. He is unconscious, intubated by a ventilator, a pace maker / balloon pump is doing the work of the heart. There is brain activity but it is minimal. The doctor has suggested Red Cross be contacted and asked to help in getting his youngest son back from Germany.

    I asked what we could do and she said PRAY, please.

  30. WSClark

    God, no more, please. My hopes and prayers are with Too Smart. Please keep us posted and let us (me) know if anything can be done.