Friday, 12/10/10, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

25 responses to “Friday, 12/10/10, Public Square

  1. wicked

    The above cartoon: Typical McCain. I can only imagine the kind of president he would’ve been. It scares me. And we thought Reagan was a bit off in the head.

    • indypendent

      Reagan was a Hollywood B-movie actor. He knew how to sound presidential, look presidential and even swagger like a president – but he was nothing more than a person with the gift of the silver tongue. It’s just too bad it was forked.

      And for the life of me, I cannot understand how any person still worships this man after he gave weapons to Iran, ran up the deficit, slashed alot of social safety nets in our society and he had high unemployment numbers.

      but yet we are today – still worshiping at the Golden Idol of Ronnie.

    • Reagan was also ill and the effects of Alzheimer disease began before he left office.

    • indypendent

      The decisions he made that I referrred to were done well within his first term. And if the man was that sick, then why did he run for the second term?

      I’ve worked with and have known alot of Alzheimers victims and their families. But not a one of them had the financial resources the Reagans had at their disposal. Those are the people that should be held on a pedestal – not Ronnie.

  2. indypendent

    Here’s a good list to start looking where to cut some massive federal spending. Let’s see who is taking more than giving and just go from there – shall we?

  3. indypendent

    Oh, oh – those two female Republicans are going against the Party of NO again.

  4. indypendent

    Looks like there has been a revision of that tax-cut bill to include extending breaks to the ethanol and alternative energy people. Will this soothe those Democrats who are just saying No?

    How nice of Republicans to throw in a bone to the alternative energy people. I’m shocked they did not demand equal breaks for their oil buddies.

  5. tosmarttobegop

    The problem is handing either side a blank check book they start having no concern how much they will spend. And of course since it is becoming a Bi-partisan effort it will end up that both side will then be pointing fingers as to who it was that was the big spenders.

    Meanwhile there will be no cuts to spending, just more ammo in he partisan mud slinging.

    • indypendent

      You’re 100% correct in your assessment. Maybe it is time to rethink the two party system?

      I know, I know – that is not feasible,not possible and not probable. But then again, I’m sure the American Revolution was also called not feasible, not possible and not probable – but that happened.

      Just because something is hard to do does not mean it does not need to be done.

      It’s time the power went back to We the People instead of the We the Parties or We the Corporations.

    • It’s going to need more than a third party, it’s going to take new rules.

      Read what this guy has to say and attempt to refute it. Be a person who isn’t a Republican because we know they have absolutely no memory of the past.

      Our tax system is one where if you have the right amount of money you can get rich beyond your wildest imagination, and the federal government subsidizes businesses and wealthy individuals. Our elections eliminate anyone except those who have enormous amounts of money or connections to those who do. Look at the facts — from 1980 to 2007, the average income of the bottom 90% of Americans was unchanged when you adjust for inflation. However, at the very top, the top 1/100% — and that’s a small group of people, 30,000 people… that small group of people back then was getting one penny out of every dollar of income in the country. They’re now getting 5 cents, almost 6 cents out of every dollar.

      But won’t lower tax rates for the top tier of taxpayers stimulate the economy and encourage spending, as many in Washington have argued for? David says that’s not the case. “In fact, and I know this is counterintuitive, higher tax rates encourage economic growth and jobs. And the reason — imagine if you own a business, and I own part of a business, by the way, with 25 workers. If we take money out of our business, we’re essentially destroying future jobs, because there’s less capital in the business. So, if the cost of withdrawing money is a 70% tax rate — that’s what we had when Ronald Reagan came into office — you say, ‘wait a minute. If I take a million dollars out, I’m going to give the government $700,000. I think I’ll leave it in the business and keep growing my business. But if the tax cost is what it is today — 15%,” you’re more likely to take money out in an unproductive way that doesn’t grow business or create jobs.”

      David points out that “that the purpose of this country is not to create billionaires,” and points out how our country started, and how far we’ve departed from its original intentions. ”The preamble to our constitution sets forth six noble reasons to create this country. Justice, peace, common defense and general welfare, and liberty most of all. And we need to recognize that’s the purpose here. It is not to subsidize those people who are driven to make a lot of money. Now, there’s nothing wrong with making a lot of money. But make it in the market! Don’t make it through these subtle backdoor deals.”

  6. 6176746f6c6c65

    There’s a small problem with what the person in fnord’s post said about taking $$ out vs. leaving it in the business as capital. Unless the business entity is taxed as a C corporation, the business earnings will be taxed as if the owner(s) had taken it out , even though it is left in the business. Even if a C corporation, the net will be subject to income tax at corporate rates. Couple that with the self-employment tax (if the business is a proprietorship, a partnership or a LLC taxed as a partnership), and the owner(s) might as well “take it out”, as the total tax cost will be the same.

    N.B. Above simplistic, and assumes an active rather than passive “business”, etc., and does not discuss the slightly different result if the entity is taxed as an S corporation (mainly, no SE tax).

  7. tosmarttobegop

    NEWS FLASH: The White house announced this evening in a farthing attempt to convince the public that the tax cut agreement that President Obama and the Republican leadership came to is a good deal,

    Tomorrow on live TV, in an attempt to convince reluctant Republicans, President Obama will channel the spirit of Former President Reagan!

    “Well…. I think this tax cut deal is a good thing!…. Farther more Deficits do not matter…”

  8. I’m so disappointed and disillusioned I don’t know which end is up, let alone what to believe.

    Swindle of the year

    Barack Obama won the great tax-cut showdown of 2010 – and House Democrats don’t have a clue that he did. In the deal struck this week, the president negotiated the biggest stimulus in American history, larger than his $814 billion 2009 stimulus package. It will pump a trillion borrowed Chinese dollars into the U.S. economy over the next two years – which just happen to be the two years of the run-up to the next presidential election. This is a defeat?

    • indypendent

      I’m right there with you about being disappointed and disillusioned. But more than that – I am damn mad.

      I’ve got grandkids that are going to have to pay the price for all this nonsense crap these politicians on both sides of the aisle are doing to this country.

  9. Zippy

    I’m bummed but not particularly disillusioned. With all due respect, I wasn’t particularly illusioned to begin with.

    Mr. Obama’s call for change–genuine or not–is up to us, not him. And I’m not defending him or attacking him. It’s a screwed situation: yes, he should have not forgotten that a conference report means, well, a conference report. But there has been plenty of criticism–coming from, among others, yours truly–that he has not been acting independently enough.

    And the reason the man blinked is that people–your neighbors, your friends, your drinkin’ buddies–elected these people, and we all know–seriously–how ruthless these people are. I would love to poll the non-activists living on the edge, because I would suspect every one of them would agree with Bernie Sanders. But they’re scared, and they should be.

    December 31 . I say fuck them, but I’ve already commented publicly, before the latest power grab. Those who everything to lose, right now, in states like Kentucky and Arizona, need to speak up now, because they are the ones who have the most to lose, and right now.

    I support Nancy Pelosi in these high-stakes because, quite frankly, she was doing this crap quite well when the president had not even won his first legislative race. But it’s horribly risky. Dec 31, people. Let’s do this, but it’s still gonna suck.

    These jackasses have been looting the treasury for 30 years.

    And it doesn’t end here.

    Jon Kyl is retiring, I hear. I can’t say enough bad about that man.

  10. Thunderchild

    “I’m so disappointed and disillusioned I don’t know which end is up, let alone what to believe.”

    That is where I am at as well. I find a President who has raised us up for hope and thrown us down on the “mercies” of corporate capitalism.

    I weigh in with hesitancy here. Since an unapologetic obama supporter has been given editorial authority over this site. No one will see my comment as he will be along soon to erase it.

    I’m at the point of giving up. I WANT to fight but how is that possible when a man who has been handed EVERYTHING in life panders to those who want to to determine the worth of others on how much exploiters can make of them?

    • Zippy

      If you mean Will, dude, I kinda doubt it.

      I get the organic connection to a president of mixed latitudes and ancestry, but no one get elected without being a politician.

      Consider this for a moment, okay? He’s a guy, and he got thrust into a circumstance where pretty much a majority of the Democratic Party had sold out (Iraq anyone? Bush tax cuts, with a far slimmer majority than Obama has?).

      The wishful thinking is that somehow Super Obama’s soaring and largely dead-on campaign rhetoric would fix this.

      Wrong. Until the powerful understand that, irrespective of human concerns, that a poor, dumb society produces nothing–that the Cooper’s Union speech actually makes sense to the greedy fools on Wall Street–we’re still screwed.

      But history has shown that minorities can be treated like animals (i.e. the American civil right struggle) and that majorities can be treated like animals (the current economic situation, or Apartheid in South Africa).

      The words “powerful minority” have a way of backfiring over time.

    • Why would you hesitate to comment here? All bloggers opinions are welcome, just plain ole visiting is welcome, so join in any time. Differing opinions helps all of us dig deeper, understand more and become stronger. We all make our points, ask our questions, and sometimes agree to disagree, but we do it while offering each blogger respect. Thinking differently or drawing a different conclusion doesn’t make anyone less or more than another person, doesn’t make anyone right or wrong. Diversity is honored because none of us will learn as much or grow as much if we don’t listen to the other side. In defending our opinions we learn whether they stand up to scrutiny or should be revisited to include new info we just heard.

      Plus we’re a small group of people glad to call one another ‘friend.’ What we think about politics isn’t how we got to be friends, it’s because we like and respect one another for exactly who each of us is.

      One blogger was banned — ONE! That was after many warnings and after he proved he was unable to discuss without abusing our blog rules. We all talked about it and agreed he should be banned. That’s how it would be handled if it ever became necessary again.

  11. Zippy

    P.S. Mr. Obama:
    Take a look. It’s not political points. These people are deadly serious. I will not presume for those who are silent.

    But I think there’s a sleeping revolution out there, and they’re only sleeping before they’re beat from work or trying to recover from illness.

    You get the letters.

    The payroll tax thing laid bare the bullshit about the deficit and Social Security. I understand it as a way of putting money in the hands of the beaten down now, and perhaps a convenient pander as well. But the former is understood.

    Question: Given the idiotic invocation of Social Security as the problem by the people you appointed, what makes Senator Sanders argument–that the payroll tax will just be used to further justify gutting the program–not uneasily plausible?

  12. indypendent

    Zippy wrote – But I think there’s a sleeping revolution out there.’
    Alot of the people will automatically think you are talking about the Tea Party – but in my opinion, the original tea party might have wanted to shake things up but they sold out to the Tea Party Express which is nothing more than recycled, rebranded Republicans with the same failed policies since Reagan’s trickle-down economics failed.

    But I do agree with you – a revolution is about to take place but I don’t see it as a party against a party or a race war. I see it as more and more people who are playing by the rules get fed up with those who are benefiting from changing those same rules to make the most money – at all cost.

    • indypendent

      I seriously think our country has the movie ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’ backwards.

      Remember in this movie when the Bailey Savings and Loan needed to come up with the cash and there was a run on them with all the people demanding their money? What was it that made the difference in that situation – it was the capacity of those folks to see the big picture and rather than to take all their money before their neighbor gets there – they only took as much as they needed to get by.

      That is what is missing today – people are only out for themselves and most of our politicians are nothing more than Mr Potter from that old movie.

  13. Zippy

    Alot of the people will automatically think you are talking about the Tea Party.

    Good God, I hope not. The Tea Party people couldn’t be more servile tools of power.

    • indypendent

      Agreed. I have been told by actual tea party supporters that they hate the Republican Party but yet feels that is the best place to be to get things done.

      My response was – WTF?

    • My response was – WTF?

      They are extremely successful at keeping things form getting done! Which pleases their constituents who think government is bad and then elect people who prove it!

      The question no Republican / Conservative (whatever they prefer to be called) has ever answered: What legislation did Republican majorities pass that helped the most Americans and makes you proudest?

  14. indypendent

    fnord – how many times do you get that befuddled look from Republicans Conservatives when you ask them that question?

    I always get that look and then usually they will turn tail and run or they will quickly call Obama a socialist and off on that tangent we go.

    None are so blind than those who refuse to see.

    I know Obama is not the best thing since sliced bread but at least he is better than anything I’ve seen the elephants hoist up as their leader.