Thursday, 12/2/10, Public Square

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Filed under The Public Square

115 responses to “Thursday, 12/2/10, Public Square

  1. fragotwofortwo

    your daily dose of anarchy

  2. indypendent

    I am still torn about my feelings on the Wikileaks situation. On one hand, I can understand why people are upset about the embarrassing information getting out. And I really understand why we would not want our war strategy being displayed to the world.

    But don’t we already leak out war strategy when we have these news reporters riding along with our soldiers on the warfield and giving live reports?

    But, again, I have to ask myself – what is this Assange guy getting out of all this leaking? What is his motivation?

    I find it somewhat suspicious that he is an Australian. Is there any link between him and Rupert Murdock? It hit me the other night – perhaps this is a two-way punch from the Republican-backer Rupert Murdock to show Obama as incompetent and now the world will turn on Obama? Fox News has done, and continues, their best to knock out Obama. Now that the Republicans feel they are in charge of Washington again (and let’s not forget – they only have the majority of the House), is this Wikileaks thing just another political ploy?

    But back to real facts that we do know – my suspicion is that no matter what the latest Wikileaks has done – it has now turned into yet another tit-for-tat political shiny object that we can all focus on while the real story continues to be written elsewhere.

    • I will be disappointed if we don’t get the next installment of the leaks — the one about the banks. So far we’ve learned the people in charge don’t deserve respect, they are bumbling fools.

    • indypendent

      Seems Glen Beck think the Wikileaks is connected to George Soros? Hmmmm…..Fox News entertainer on Fox News trying to push opinion to the fact the Evil Left is out to destroy America.

      And this is based on the fact that Assange is using the same lawyer that has done pro bono work for Soros and Assange advocates for open societies.

      Hmmm……..let’ see. If we use the theory of using the same lawyers as being proof of something – then I guess that makes Rush Limbaugh secretly working with the ACLU because the ACLU lawyers got him off the legal hook for that little nasty incident of those pills?

      There is definitely more to this story than meets the eye – IMHO.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/02/beck-wikileaks-soros-conspiracy_n_790914.html

    • Here’s the problem, Indy: You said these three words and one of them doesn’t belong — Glen Beck think

      He, along with many politicians and other television and radio personalities, don’t “think,” they perform. I’m really sick of their acts!

    • fragotwofortwo

      wikileaks dumps raw information into search able data bases. The picture it paints are the day to day reports at the field level.
      Same thing with the diplomatic info. I have always thought world leaders acted like children. Now there is proof.
      If the MSM would report more than glorified propaganda wikileaks would not exist.
      “I find it somewhat suspicious that he is an Australian” I’m an American, therefore I must be like George Bush.

  3. indypendent

    Interesting article on Obama and GOP actually working together on something. But I guess that bipartisanship goes out the window when it comes to working together for all Americans. I guess bipartisanship is only achieved when it benefits certain ‘right’ individuals?

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable-obama-quashed-torture-investigation

  4. I am sorely disappointed in how well Obama lets the agenda be directed by the GOP. He caved on everything he promised and allowed it all to become less than what would help Americans the most. With the latest showing of lack of backbone, lack of leadership with regard to millions of Americans who desperately need help not getting it but those top 2% of the most wealthy being taken care of, I’m finished trying to support him. He isn’t willing to support Americans and doesn’t deserve my support!

    Remember our old blogging friend CF2K? Here’s what he had to say: …watches the President failing to manage Republicans, and is reminded of the picture from the late 60’s, of surrounded hippies placing flowers in the gun barrels pointed directly at them.

    • I remember well when John McCain lost me — when he caved and voted for The Patriot Act I knew he was a lousy man and even tho I had thought he was a man I could vote for, that all changed right then.

      With Obama it will be if he doesn’t stick to what he promised on the bush tax cuts. He gave up before he even fought. Just like the public option he gave up on too soon and too easily. Just like the facts that he sticks it to the GLBT community, and doesn’t stick it to Wall Street. I’ve lasted longer than some but I too have my final straw.

    • indypendent

      let’s face it – Obama is a corporatist at heart. And with that said, what else would one do but to bow down to Republicans adn Big Business?

      I posted a link to a Centrist grassroots movement that is being formed. Maybe this is a group of people who can bring this nonsense of today’s governing to a screeching halt?

      I sincerely beleive that most people are in the middle of the political spectrum. Some lean right, some lean left – but none are so far to the fringe that the word compromise becomes a four-letter word – like the Religious Right and the Party of NO has told us and shown us.

      Alot of talk is focused on the Tea Party and their future. But I think the Tea Party’s flavor of the month time is expired. When the new GOP controlled House takes over in January and there are still no jobs being created (like they promised) – I don’t think anyone will be wanting to drink that particular tea any more.

      That is why this centrist group may just have a shot at shaking up the political scene. One can only hope.

  5. indypendent

    Here comes Newt Gingrich again. This time he has a 12-step program for all Republicans.

    I have to chuckle here folks – if there was any need for a 12-step program – the current Republicans are truly the ones needing it.

    My question is – and has been for a long time – why does anyone ever listen to Newt? The way a man conducts his personal life is the only measurement I need to judge whether he would be a good president or leader. Need I say more about Newt? But so goes the party of family values. They seem to give a free pass to those on the ‘right’ side of the aisle but let Obama conduct his personal life in the same way as alot of Republicans and they would call for him to be tarred and feathered.

    I think the elephant should be replaced as the GOP mascot with a hippo. The hippo is more in line with most Republicans – hippocrites.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/02/newt-gingrich-12-step-gop-takeover_n_790555.html

  6. itolduso

    Apparently, the Democrat party has a correct picture of themselves in their mascot—

    A braying Jackass.

    • I agree — all talk, all loud braying for show. It’s a really stupid act, I don’t recommend it.

    • indypendent

      That braying jackass can be found on both sides of the political aisle.

      But I like the new new hippo mascot for Republicans because it fits them. They are the ones proclaiming they are the only people with family values. I don’t see the Democrats braying about that – do you?

    • fragotwofortwo

      Now just wait a minute. The dems say please and thank you. Before and after they screw us over.

  7. indypendent

    I am reposting the link to the Centrist Civility Group I referenced above:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/30/scarborough-attacks-palin_n_789927.html

  8. itolduso

    FNord-

    Once again I have somehow messed up my post. please delete. Thanks

    • itolduso

      thanks….again….sigh

    • No problem! Humans…

      Then there are politicians who are perfect donchaknow.

      Boy am I discouraged today. I have no confidence left that we can make it back from the edge of the abyss.

    • I found a cold — runny nose & eyes with cough, and at the same time my get up and go has gotten up and gone. Doctor appointments keep me hopping and worrying (I’m NOT the patient!), including being at the hospital next Tuesday at 7 am. I still haven’t completely caught up from Thanksgiving and I really need to get busy making Christmas. Did I mention my Mother’s 80th birthday comes before Christmas and I feel I should mark this milestone in a memorable way.

      Maybe looking at politics keeps me from thinking about other areas?

      OK! Enough of that pity party! I will take one step at a time and I will get there. 🙂

    • wicked

      fnord, I’ve been down with first stomach flu and now cold for almost 3 weeks. The problem is, I’m not allowed to actually be sick, so life goes on. I, too, am dragging. If we hook up to each other, would there be enough energy to run one person?

  9. itolduso

    “don’t see the Democrats braying about that – do you?”

    it was sarcasm, to note the silliness of defining a “mascot” for an entire party. Sorry you took me seriously.

    • indypendent

      You usually post only comments that you seriously mean – so I played along.

      sorry you took me so seriously.

      See, isn’t this fun?

  10. itolduso

    Boy am I discouraged today. I have no confidence left that we can make it back from the edge of the abyss

    Sorry to hear that, even though we are often on the opposite sides as far as solutions.

    http://nolabels.org/

    • I read at that website and my jury is still out. These are the same people who have been part of the problem in the past. Like the tea party who may include some with good intentions and noble goals, they still sold out to the highest bidders. I have bigger doubts than hopes.

    • indypendent

      If any group has a real chance to be a movement for change – it will have to be a group that is comprised of centrists.

      So, in that hope, I will be watching this group and what actually happens.’

      Now if that Tea Party Express suddenly calls itself the Centrist Party Express – watch out!

      Aot of the success of this Centrist group will depend on how these new Tea Party Republicans govern in the next two years. And from the looks of things – that would be a big fat zero – nada – zilch and nothing will be accomplished because it is all about partisan politics.

      People are hurting and they are looking for those jobs the Republicans have promised. Let’s see those elephants make those businesses who are sitting on their money let loose of some of their record profits and actually put people back to work.
      But I will not be holding my breath.

  11. wicked

    MANHATTAN, Kansas – In the Little Apple, Manhattan Lawmakers are considering adopting the most sweeping anti-gay discrimination policy in the state of Kansas. The legislation has infuriated religious leaders, who held a rally Wednesday opposing the measure.

    City leaders in Manhattan want everyone to know gays are welcome in their city. A new anti-discrimination policy is nearing passage that would make it a crime to deny anyone housing or a job because of their sexual orientation.

    “We want to send a statement that all people are welcome and we’re not going to judge you based on who you are or who you’re attracted to,” said Josh McGinn with the Flint Hills Human Rights Project.

    The new law goes beyond Lawrence’s policy, protecting transgender individuals in addition to gays and making it the most progressive policy in the state of Kansas. Two dozen church leaders have written the city in protest, claiming homosexuality is a sin and policies endorsing it harm families.

    “There is not a homosexual gene,” said Donna Lipolt with the Kansas Family Policy Council. “They are not born that way and a lot of them have been terribly abused. We just want to reach out to them in love.”

    Another group in opposition of this resolution in Manhattan is the Chamber of Commerce, but they say their stance has nothing to do with any sort of opposition on moral grounds. They’re worried about what they say is the ambiguity of the way the legislation is written and concerns over businesses here in Manhattan being unfairly punished.

    “We’re simply looking at it from a legislative point of a view and how this would be enforced should it need to be,” said Lyle Butler with the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce.

    A rough draft of the new policy will be reviewed next week. City commissioners are expected to adopt the proposal at their December 21st meeting.

    Protests in Manhattan are getting under way along with the Kansas Family Council’s rally against the policy. Gay and lesbian groups are planning a counter protest in favor of the legislation.
    ***
    My biggest problem is the part I’ve bolded.
    A) They cannot prove that homosexuality is genetic in some way.
    B) Yes, they’ve been horribly abused –BY CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE DECIDED THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE OTHERS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR BIBLE SAYS.
    C) They want to reach out to them with love? Ask Matthew Shepherd about that “love.” One cannot reach out with love and then DENY love. But, hey, like the Bible, they tend to contradict themselves.

    BTW… Go Manhattan!!! 😉

    • wicked

      Sorry, that should read ‘A)They cannot prove homosexuality is NOT genetic in some way. Science tends to disagree. (I was getting my negatives mixed up. LOL)

    • Two dozen church leaders have written the city in protest…

      Yeah! Because judgment is theirs? Why or why are the least loving, the most hateful always the loudest and most likely to spew?

      GO Manhattan!

    • tosmarttobegop

      LOL I have been getting e-mails on it trying to build support for the rally. The shame of it all is they are wrapping themselves in the cloak of God to justify their own actions.

      They will win and God loses.

    • Do you remember when church leaders welcomed sinners? Sought them out, were gracious in their invitations to join?

      Yeah, me too.

      Now it seems (or at least it’s what we hear about) they want a member’s only club and they decide what character traits or lifestyle is virtuous. If not virtuous you need not apply for membership!

    • I want to make this very clear — I don’t think being LGBT makes one a sinner! I was reading the article that said the church leaders say that and then having said that they seem not to want to allow those sinners rights. Rights must only belong to those who don’t sin. [rolls eyes] They’ve lost track of ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. They’ve lost track of even more than that and make the poorest of poor leaders.

    • wicked

      The resolution is expected to pass.

      Let the X-tians (I know how angry that makes people, so HA) protest. They only show the world how small-minded and bigotted they are. As for the Chamber of Commerce, booo, hisss. Bunch of stupid homophobes.

  12. tosmarttobegop

    We built a castle in the sky of whiffs of smoke, not the wind came and destroyed it.
    The sad truth is it will never be built to the same level it once was.

    The economy had been built to the high level with make-believe and pretend values.
    It will recover to a certain extent, but not to where it was before the fall.
    And quite honestly, what is being done now to try is much of the same thinking that was involved in what caused the whiffs of smoke construction.

    The economy is so overwhelmed but the Global market and manufacturing.
    We can not see how to rebuild or compete, in order to do so the populist will have to become serfs in the overall society.

    Abandon their status as consumers.

    • wicked

      You’re right, tstb. The U.S. can boast of being the greatest nation, but the peak has been hit, and now is the slide down. The question is can it be saved? If corporations continue to be the deciders, the answer is no.

      I’ve said for a long, long time that Rome fell and so would the U.S. I just didn’t expect it in my lifetime.

      6176 commented on yesterday’s thread about TARP and what might have been had it not be put into effect. I wasn’t pleased that we bailed out huge financial institutions who actually deserved failure for not only allowing but creating the mess that was made. But I also knew it couldn’t be ignored. To save the economy of this country and of the world, something had to be done.

      My regret is that nothing was put in place to keep it from happening again. Those who ignored the need for oversight should not be in any position of power. Poor parenting skills, if you ask me.

  13. indypendent

    They will win and God loses.


    Unfortunately, that happens alot. Especially when people mix religion with politics.

    • wicked

      indy, I’m not convinced that they will win. Manhattan and Lawrence both continue to prove their liberal-ness, over and over.

      God loses because some believe these people speak for Him/Her. They need to shut up long enough t listen to His/Her message. I’m not holding my breath.

    • indypendent

      The world would be a better place if those Bible thumpers would stop using the Bible as their weapon and start reading it.

      But, I’m afraid those who need to heed the message the most are those same evangelical christian folks who are so arrogant they are rewriting the Bible to fit their agenda.

      Of course they will sign God’s name to the finishe product – LMAO

  14. indypendent

    fnord wrote: Now it seems (or at least it’s what we hear about) they want a member’s only club and they decide what character traits or lifestyle is virtuous. If not virtuous you need not apply for membership!


    Unfortunately, I think we are seeing this trend in those mega churches – majority of which are evangelical christians. Why not just call these places what they reall are – tax-free country club churches.

  15. There’s supposed to be a vote in the House today about the bush tax cuts. It’s said to be symbolic political theater at its worst and has no chance of passing. I wish it was the only vote they took, that it did fail, that all the tax cuts expired and the names of the voters and how they voted was published overandoverandover.

    I know they will play more games after the one today, but I can still express how I wish it would go down.

    • indypendent

      Let’s let all Bush tax cuts continue but let’s make a stipulation on that deal?

      Every person getting a government subsidy has to forfeit that money. Let’s see how long the Republicans will stand for that deal because if they want the unemployed, Medicaid, SCHIP, Medicare recipieitns to do without – their corporations will also have to do without their millions of taxpayer money.

      I suspect the Republicans would not like that deal at all – do you?

  16. indypendent

    The Social Religious Conservatives already demonize Manhattan because that is where young people are being indoctrinated by those ‘evil liberals’ in the universities.

    Education is once again being demonized by those on the right. Same song, same dance, same ignorance and same arrogance.

    But this new fight will certainly bring in alot of money to those churches/preachers to fight the good fight.

    To borrow a phrase from Prairie Pond – and Jesus wept

    • wicked

      Is The Way still in Emporia? I’ve heard it is, although it was much stronger back in the ’70s and ’80s. Scary bunch.

    • indypendent

      I thought they went out but there might be a new name for the same group. That is what seems to happen alot to these groups.

      A leopard never changes their spots though – that is a fact.

  17. indypendent

    Maybe we should push for legislation that takes away taxpayer-subsidies given to coporations if they outsource one single American job?

    If taxpayers are going to give money to corporations and not to every American, then let’s measure how much benefit the taxpayers are really getting for their money?

    It’s about time these corporations stop being just ‘takers’ and start being good american citizens again by giving back to their country.

    • itolduso

      “If taxpayers are going to give money to corporations ”

      About which corporations do you speak? An how are taxpayers giving them money?

  18. itolduso

    Maybe we should push for legislation that takes away taxpayer-subsidies given to coporations if they outsource one single American job?
    *******************************************************
    Maybe we should push for legislation that does not allow the US GOVERNMENT to outsource one single American job, or buy one single thing not made in the United States. Maybe we should start there.

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      Perhaps we should. This, of course, raises considerable questions about how to handle procurement, and (perhaps) fiscal issues as well.

    • indypendent

      Funny you should bring that up itolduso – do some research on CAFTA vote in 2005.”

      George W. Bush and Republicans rammed through this legislation on a 2-vote majority.

      Pay close attention to the government contract procurement agreement that encourages foreign countries to bid.
      Hmm…… a 2-vote majority of a a major piece of legislation. And this was rammed through on the GOP side!

    • tosmarttobegop

      Some key pieces of military hardware is made in foreign countries.
      It is unbelievable that parts that are used in the defense of this country and are meant to be secret advantages are not made here.

  19. 6176746f6c6c65

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/02/dadt.future.questions/index.html?hpt=T2

    This article is a very interesting look at the hysteria surrounding DADT repeal, which, interestingly enough, may well have an effect, albeit indirectly, on the attitudes of those in Manhattan, Junction City, and other communities surrounding military installations about the LGBT community.

    • itolduso

      Time to end DADT. Let it slip away. Civilians care more about this than than those in the military.

      End it now.

    • Nope! Nothing can happen until the GOP has their way with the bush tax cuts! Nothing I tell you!

      If anyone else were to go to work and say, “I’m doing nothing until _______, and not only that, I and my department will block anyone else from doing anything too,” how long should that person keep their job or be paid?

  20. OT – My husband just emailed me a link I’d like to share. This is a Russian opinion of Sarah Palin …

    http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/30-11-2010/115998-spankin_sarah-0/

    • I’ll be damned! That Russian and I share the exact same opinion of her. Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey must be a wise man, and he said this so well! 🙂

      Thanks for sharing, Moonshadow!

    • wicked

      The comments were great, too! Many of them were Brits. I suspect Bancroft-Hinchey is, too.

  21. 6176746f6c6c65

    (Now that I’ve cleaned the monitor and keyboard..)

    Thank you, Moonshadow; I needed that. BTW, there are some quite remarkable comments as well.

    • itolduso

      Most of the links on the page won;t open. But, since you made the statement…what companies and how are they given taxpayer money?

  22. itolduso

    Specifically, given taxpayer money to ship Ameican jobs overseas….which was your statement

  23. itolduso

    Funny you should bring that up itolduso – do some research on CAFTA vote in 2005.”

    George W. Bush and Republicans rammed through this legislation on a 2-vote majority.

    Pay close attention to the government contract procurement agreement that encourages foreign countries to bid.
    Hmm…… a 2-vote majority of a a major piece of legislation. And this was rammed through on the GOP side

    I don;t give a damn which party is responsible. I have told you that time and time again. I don;t know how it was “rammed” thru, and I don;t care. My position is the same. Buy American. No government dollars for foreign procurement unless absolutely necessary for raw materials. Of course, the American public will have to get over the fact that American made products may be more expensive.

    • indypendent

      How can your or our government ‘buy American’ when that possibility is not available?

      How hard is that to understand?

      And I DO care which party rammed it through when that is the party that is now trying to be so saintly in their love for America. I call B.S.

    • wicked

      “Of course, the American public will have to get over the fact that American made products may be more expensive.”

      So be it. I’ll buy less, not that I buy all that much anyway, compared to others.

      What do I buy the most of? Besides food, that is. Paper, for one. And guess what? I buy Georgia Pacific MADE IN U.S.A. Well, pat me on the back. 🙂 I should buy recycled, but it costs almost twice as much. I do, however, try to recycle my used paper, so I’m half good.

  24. itolduso

    Some key pieces of military hardware is made in foreign countries.
    It is unbelievable that parts that are used in the defense of this country and are meant to be secret advantages are not made here.

    **********************************************

    Agreed.

    • indypendent

      And I also do not see why the US recently sold about $60 billion of weapons to Saudi Arabia if we are at war with all Muslims.

      That does not make sense – unless, of course, you do not care as long as certain companies make their profit.

  25. fragotwofortwo

    list of job exporters

    http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

    one reason jobs are exported

    http://www.manufacturing.net/News/2010/09/Government-News-New-Bill-Would-Punish-Firms-That-Export-Jobs/

    New Bill Would Punish Firms That Export Jobs
    By Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press Writer
    Manufacturing.Net – September 28, 2010

    WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. companies that close domestic plants and open new ones overseas would see their taxes increase under a bill Democrats are bringing before the Senate Tuesday for one of the last votes before lawmakers head home for the November election.

    Companies that import jobs to the U.S. would get new tax breaks.

    Republicans and possibly a few Democrats are expected to block the bill on a procedural vote Tuesday. They say the tax increases would make U.S. companies less competitive.

    Democrats orchestrated the vote to show sympathy with voters who believe American jobs are being lost because U.S. companies are outsourcing them overseas. With the economy still sluggish and unemployment hovering near 10 percent, Democrats hope to use the issue to score points with voters as they fight to maintain majorities in both the House and Senate.

    “We’re going to take away the incentives corporations have to send our jobs overseas, and give them powerful new incentives to keep American jobs in America,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. “Right now our tax code actually rewards corporations for offshoring jobs. It helps them pay the costs of closing their plants and offers them tax breaks if they move production to other countries.”

    The bill would exempt companies that import jobs from paying the 6.2 percent Social Security payroll tax for new U.S. employees who replace overseas workers who had been doing similar work.

    • itolduso

      The most important part of the story above

      “Democrats orchestrated the vote to show sympathy with voters ….

      who believe American jobs are being lost because U.S. companies are outsourcing them overseas. With the economy still sluggish and unemployment hovering near 10 percent,

      …..Democrats hope to use the issue to score points with voters as they fight to maintain majorities in both the House and Senate.

      In other words, no substance, just more politics. Who cares

    • indypendent

      I think the ‘important’ part of what was posted is the fact that US companies do get rewarded outsourcing jobs.

      But let’s not let facts get in the way of good ol GOP spin story.

  26. itolduso

    More of the same….. Maybe the American public will actually wake up and figure out that neither party gives a rat’s ass about them, quick the party finger pointing crap, and demand that something be done. As it is now, one party just points the finger at the other……..and the band played on

  27. itolduso

    “And I DO care which party rammed it through ”

    Of course you do.

  28. itolduso

    “And I also do not see why the US recently sold about $60 billion of weapons to Saudi Arabia if we are at war with all Muslims.”

    But we are not, the President said so.

    • indypendent

      But the Holy Ones of the Religious Right Social Conservative Republicans say we are at war with all Muslims.

      But yet these folks were silent on this arms deal – why?

  29. itolduso

    How can your or our government ‘buy American’ when that possibility is not available?

    If the government said it would only purchase American made goods, they would be available.

  30. itolduso

    for not liking tit-for-tat……

    A “game” you love.

    Okay, that’s fine. I will no longer respond to you. I shouldn;t have anyway. Have a great day

  31. indypendent

    but the Holy Ones of the Religioius Right Social Conservative Republicans say we are – but yet they never said a word about this arms deal – WHY?

    Because above all else – money is their true God.

  32. wicked

    If I recall, this was one of Kerry’s points when he ran for president back in 2004. I’m guessing the words he used were too big for the people who had already lost their jobs to understand? Voting against your best interests in action.

  33. itolduso

    What do I buy the most of? Besides food, that is. Paper, for one. And guess what? I buy Georgia Pacific MADE IN U.S.A. Well, pat me on the back. I should buy recycled, but it costs almost twice as much. I do, however, try to recycle my used paper, so I’m half good.

    great!!!

    • wicked

      Hey, I had to check the paper package to make sure. LOL

    • truvision47

      You do realize the Georgia Pacific is owned by Koch Industries don’t you?

    • wicked

      For truvision47:

      Well, snap. Now that headache I woke up with has gotten worse.

      I’ll have to cut back on my use of paper. I kill too many trees as it is. Thankfully, my ’employer’ now accepts most everything electronically. Ha! Take that, Kochs!

      😉

    • Hi truvision47, welcome to PPPs. Thanks for the reminder!

      I had that entire list of everything we commonly buy that Koch owns. It’s a long one and would probably prove to be as difficult as “buy American.” But both are still worthy goals — buy American and don’t benefit Koch with any of your purchases!

  34. indypendent

    All your food is Made in the USA? Do you check all your labels?

    • indypendent

      Alot of the produce is now from foreign countries.

      For all this buying things only made in USA line – it is increasingly hard to do that on everyday items that we all use and need.

    • wicked

      You got me there, indy. I really don’t pay attention. It could be coming from Outer Mongolia, for all I know. I don’t buy a lot of produce. (Obviously I am not a healthy eater.)

      I see it’s not easy to find where food is “made.” As I look at my Carnation Instant Breakfast package from this morning, it says, Manufactured for Nestle Healthcare Nutrition, Inc., Minneapolis, MN…. USA

      There’s nothing on my gallon of skim milk, except a statement that the farmers producing the milk have pledged not to use human growth hormones.

      My Pepsi is, I assume, manufactured and bottled in the U.S.A. , since there’s a bottler here, although there is no “bottled in” on the label.

      Mac and cheese for the g-kids, again, had nothing.

      I could check out the Spanish labeled food next time I’m at WM to see where it’s made. And, please, don’t get me started on that. I start raving like a manic bigot. Could be because few of the fellow customers I’ve run into (not literally…yet) who speak Spanish have been beyond rude.

      And, yes, I shop at Walmart because I can walk there in 7 minutes. I think it actually takes me longer to drive. I admit that I’m lazy.

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      Produce from other countries of which I am aware:

      Table Grapes – Chile, primarily;
      Oranges (primarily non-navel) – various South American countries;
      Apples, especially Granny Smith – Australia.

      The key to being “suspicious” as to country of origin is whether there is an abundance of fresh produce of a particular kind available “out of season”, such as table grapes in the winter, apples in the spring, oranges in the late spring-summer. I’m sure there are other examples, but the above reflect the varieties available at the local Dillons I’ve seen being unboxed, and had a chance to read the boxes (sometimes, the grapes are in plastic bags with identifying labels, too).

    • wicked

      The last two times I bought grapes (red), the littlest male g-kid ate most of them. I finally gave up. I buy oranges now and then, mostly around Christmas (’cause that’s when I got ’em in my stocking) and into Janaury. Navel oranges. I wouldn’t know the difference between Granny Smith and Granny MacIntosh, so not a lot of apples are consumed here, either. I cook anything as little as possible. Way too many years of cooking for harvest, Sundays and a family of six who couldn’t agree. I’ve handed that job over to prairiepond, who does it so much better than I. 🙂

    • The grapes I’ve been buying recently are huge — you take a bite of a grape! And very tasty! We eat a minimum of two pieces of fresh fruit daily — an apple and a pear, an orange and a handful of grapes… My favorite apple is Fuji, but they aren’t as good right now as they will be later. If you can find Clementines from Spain you’ll never find those that come from California as good, and will constantly look to see if these are the special ones you usually find around now and until just past Christmas that come from Spain. Pears are delicious right now — crisp, the way I think they’re best. I go to the grocery store every couple of days and buy produce and fruit so I’m sure it’s the freshest. I buy fresh broccoli and cauliflower and spinach and mushrooms and lettuce of all types.

      I sound like the pig I am! I really love food.

  35. indypendent

    I would like to bring up something that fnord mentioned yesterday or the day before. She said something about we need to be a country that takes care of our most vulnerable citizens.

    If Republicans follow the way of Ronald Reagan in the 80’s and abolish alot of the social programs the govenment is currently running – maybe we’ll see the faith community jump in there and take up the slack?

    Some churches are doing that currently. But I still don’t see those mega churches or these televangelists running their telethons to bring in millions do their share to take care of our vulnerable citizens.

    What will these so-called religious types do? That is when the rubber meets the road and we’ll see which churches bring down their golden crosses and sell them for the price of their gold and finally do some good in the community.

    • tosmarttobegop

      It was suppose to be done during the Bush administration their was a push to send federal funding to church ran civil help services and to reduce the role played by the government such as welfare and the like.

      This pretty much was a failure because of the appearance of only Christian based organizations qualified.
      And then only those of the right denomination.

  36. indypendent

    I heard an economist the other day talking about the fact China holds so much of our debt note and what would happen if they ever decided to call their notes in.

    Well, it seems the Chinese need us as much as we need them. If the US defaults on anything, alot of the China’s good economic news will soon tumble into a house of cards.

    the statement was made that China is best at exporting unemployment to the USA.

    So, is this what is commonly referred to as a standoff?

    Seems the

    • indypendent

      but don’t worry, the politicians and their supporters will keep us fighting amongst ourselves as to which side is more godly, or more Christian than the other. Or who loves the military more – or whose military service is more impressive.

      Well, take it from one Vietnam War widow – this game of American politics is stinkin to high heaven but I’m sure we’ll be spending the next two years watching as Republicans once again tear down the country’s infrastructure both in physical and social – while waving their American Flag, thumping their Bible, singing Yankee Doodle Dandy while eating Mom’s apple pie.

      In other words – they will not be doing a damn thing worthwhile but digging us even deeper in the current hole.

  37. indypendent

    If Nigeria comes and gets Cheney to face these charges, does that open the door for other countries to possibly introduce this former VP to an undisclosed location?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40478180/ns/world_news-africa

    • Nigeria or any other country that wants him is more than welcome to that snake in the grass! This is so little, so late. That crook should have been in prison years ago — waaaaay before we paid for his most recent heart surgery!

    • tosmarttobegop

      There is a problem for the U.S. it does seem we have a extradition agreement with Nigeria.
      So basically if the formal demand is made legally the United States can not refuse to arrest and send Cheney.

      Something that does need some looking into, it is said that within the leaked messages that Spain had a independent court that was going to do a investigate into charging six of the Bush administration with charges related to the torture.

      According to the leak, several members of the Obama administration warned Spain that if they went through with it there would be ramifications with the relationship between the U.S. and Spain.
      That there would be such a public outcry by the American people that Spain would suffer.

    • I heard while we ignore the extradition agreement with regard to Cheney we’re pushing for complying with another extradition agreement so we can “get” the wiki leaks guy. Good luck on that kind of hypocrisy!

  38. Sounds like we should all save for the tax man, or change withholding so we’re not caught owing a bundle in the spring of 2012! If all the bush tax cuts and all the stimulus tax cuts expire we will all see a BIG difference. Those stimulus tax cuts (unlike the bush tax cuts for the wealthy) benefited the middle class most so we will feel that one!

    White House Presses GOP to Extend All Tax Breaks in Expiring Stimulus

    The White House is pressing Republicans to extend all tax breaks in the expiring stimulus package, drastically broadening the tense debate on Capitol Hill over the Bush tax cuts.

    The gambit by the Obama administration throws a curveball into the negotiations. While the lame-duck session has been consumed by proposals over how to avert the looming expiration of the Bush-era cuts, to this point, few have focused on the Dec. 31 expiration of a slew of tax provisions from President Obama’s stimulus plan.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/12/02/white-house-presses-gop-extend-tax-breaks-expiring-stimulus/#ixzz170E3rT9n

  39. O’Donnell Signs Book Deal

    Looks like Christine O’Donnell thinks the Tea Party revolution will be published, not televised. Delware’s Tea Party queen signed a book deal with St. Martin’s Press, with a planned publication date for August 2011. St. Martin’s Press said the book will be about O’Donnell’s political beliefs, as well as her ascent to fame as a Tea Party favorite that beat a veteran Delaware favorite. In a statement, O’Donnell said the 2010 midterm were the beginning of the “revolution,” and she plans on “making my book one of the revolution’s catalysts.”

    http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/christine-o%E2%80%99donnell-lands-book-deal-with-st-martins-press_b18243

    • Is the GOP known for really greedy and stupid women? It makes me livid that people like Bachmann, Palin, O’Donnell are female! They do our sex a disfavor! I am not accustomed to idiot women so they grate like the chalk on the chalkboard.

    • wicked

      See, what absolutely irks me is how much advance these people receive for books that have a limited buyer base. I’ll admit that Sarah may have already earned out her mega advance–thanks to all those public appearances and book signings that helped sell those books, but there are so many that don’t. I guess I’m just in the wrong area of business. If only I’d just chosen prostitution (a la the Mayflower Madame) or total insanity (choose your nutso chick)… But I didn’t. 😦

    • tosmarttobegop

      Why Wicked you know that her book will hit NYT best seller’s list within a week!

      And I will leave it at that since you already know how it will!

    • wicked

      tstb, you betcha! 😉

      It’s true that to make money you have to have money. That definitely leaves me out.

    • wicked

      “Is the GOP known for really greedy and stupid women?”
      What really burns me is that these greedy, stupid women are worshipped, yet let an intelligent liberal woman speak her mind, and she’s called a
      b!tch. Even the double standard is a double standard.

  40. One good purpose these idiot GOP serve is that when I get really discouraged and distraught about democrats I can see what is immensely worse.

  41. tosmarttobegop

    In a moment of honesty, a Democratic Congressman admit there is no real hurry to pass or not pass the tax cut issue. They are perfectly able to bring it up after January and just pro-act it in any final form.
    Both side are just engaging in theater.

    • My grandson is in a band named Our Stars The Sun. They recently posted this info on their Facebook page and asked whether from now on they would need to be called, “Her Star’s the Sun” in order to avoid any legal issues. 🙂

  42. tosmarttobegop

    Right now the rich tax rate is like 35 percent.

    BUT, here is the trick, when the tax rate was raised so were a number of deductions available for them. Taking advantage of these deductions will lower the actual tax rate paid to around 22 percent.

    Here is what the public gets to see, the rich are taxed at 35 percent.

    What is not realized is the reduction and this gives both side talking points.

    For the Democratic they can point to how the rich are being forced to pay their fair share!

    For the Republicans they can point to how the rich are being abused and unfairly taxed!

    You as the average citizen who is not able to use all the deductions have a tax rate of about 25 percent.

    With the ability to drop the tax rate to 22 percent, that is what Buffet mean when he said he pays less in taxes then his secretary does. He can pay 22 percent while his secretary is paying 25 percent.

    The average person does not have the ablity to drop their tax rate by 10 percent so they are stuck with the 25 percent.

    Making the tax rate equal and doing away with those reductions would actually bring in revenue in a fair manner. Also it would quit the deceiving the public by giving a false impression by both sides

    • Keep in mind that even if the tax cuts for income over $200,000 / $250,0000 expire everyone still has the cuts for all income under those amounts! So even the uber wealthy still have lower rates on that first $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples.

  43. indypendent

    I thought the Republicans #1 goal wast to create jobs? How will defunding Planned Parenthood create any jobs?

    Just wondering….

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/republicans-abortion-hyde-amendment-defund-planned-parenthood