Monday, 11/22/10, Public Square



Filed under The Public Square

84 responses to “Monday, 11/22/10, Public Square

  1. indypendent

    My, my, my….another right-wing Christian Conservative who must think it is okay to denigrate our soldiers. This time it is apparently not enough just to risk one’s life in saving fellow soldiers – they must kill people to be really deemed worthy of the medal of honor.

    This current group of Christian Conservatives give God and Christianity a bad name – IMHO

    • indypendent

      Even when this fake Christian group stoop to the sewer level to spew their hatred, there are still gullible people who think these people are correct.

      The Bible talks about false prophets in the end times – perhaps this current Christian Conservative group is one of them?

  2. indypendent

    What? Ireland is in trouble and needs a bailout? If I recall correctly, John McCain held up Ireland, during the presidential debate, as an example of what the US needs to do when it comes to taxes.

    Once again, Republicans are showing they really don’t know anything about
    taxes or how to run an economy.

    • McCain Calls For Irish Tax Rates

      From the Huffington Post link above…
      “Over the past two months Cowen and his 15-member Cabinet have been drafting a four-year austerity plan for Ireland that is expected to be unveiled later this week.
      It seeks to close the gap between Ireland’s spending, currently running at euro50 billion, and depressed tax revenues of just euro31 billion. It proposes the toughest steps in the 2011 budget, when euro4.5 billion will be cut from spending and euro1.5 billion in new taxes imposed – steps that threaten to drive Ireland’s moribund economy into recession and civil unrest.
      Both Cowen and Lenihan have stressed that Ireland’s 12.5 percent rate of tax on business profits – its most powerful lure for attracting and keeping 600 U.S. companies with bases in Ireland – will not be touched no matter what happens.
      France, Germany and other eurozone members have repeatedly criticized the rate as unfair and say it should be raised now given the depth of Ireland’s red ink.”

      Another government proposing to tax the average citizen to support corporations.

      FLASHBACK: John McCain Touts Ireland’s Business-Friendly Economy

  3. indypendent

    What? Trickle-down does not work? And this is coming from someone who should know. But yet we will still have to sit through years of endless rhetoric about how the Golden Idol God of the Almighty Dollar – Ronald Reagan – was right all along.

    If I could buy Republicans for what they are worth and sell them for what they think they are worth, I could pay off the national debt by myself!

    • itolduso

      Warren Buffet is free to give the goverment all the dollars he desires. Or free to distribute as much of his money to charities to feed the homeless and give free medical care to those who need it as he wishes. He shouldn’t wait for the government to consficate it

    • Mr. Buffet is indeed free to take these actions, and has done so in part through his giving to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Of course, he might be able to do more. Regardless, depending upon the form of the gifting he has done/will be doing, there is/will be a substantial charitable deduction for income and/or Federal estate tax purposes.

      I find no fault with him, or anyone else, taking advantage of deductions provided under the law, BTW. Where I have questions from time to time revolves more around the “charitable… purposes” of the donee organization.

  4. I know that letting all the tax cuts expire is the best, most responsible answer to our debt woes. I don’t, however, think it is the best or most responsible solution we could offer to the many Americans who need that help and more. The 2% wealthiest need NO HELP, so I find that savings an easy decision, and have trouble understanding why anyone would support extending those tax cuts. I do understand the arguments for letting them all expire and someplace in there is a compromise waiting. I miss the days when it was an exemplary attitude to work toward compromises.

  5. For those of suitable age and discretion, today marks the 47th anniversary of the assassination of President Kennedy. I think many of us have shared our memories of that day at other times and in other venues. I also think most of us have our ideas on the effect of the assassination on that which followed, whether culturally, politically, economically, diplomatically, etc.

    I wonder what the folks here who were not old enough to have any memories of that day or who were born after 1963 think about the effects of the assassination on the course of events that followed in the U.S. I have my thoughts, one of which is that had there not been the assassination, our legal structure in the area of Civil Rights might be quite different than it is, i.e., the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would not have been enacted in the form it was or at all.

    • 47 years. Time flies and you don’t necessarily have to be having fun…

    • I forgot anyone was hit with bullets other than President Kennedy. I just plain forgot —

      A third bullet tore through the chest and arm of Texas Governor John B. Connally, Jr, who was riding in the limo along with the Kennedys.

    • wicked

      I’d forgotten this was the anniversary. Yes, it’s one of the dates that is remembered simply by closing my eyes and re-living it as if it was happening now.

  6. itolduso

    I find no fault with him, or anyone else, taking advantage of deductions provided under the law

    Me Either. My point was he only that he is free (wihtout any compulsion) to give as much as he wants. Him stating he doesn;t pay enough in taxes is a bit, ummm, wrong for lack of a better word (because of a lack of caffiene on my part) . He can pay all the taxes he wants. If he feels that way, he can pay all he wants to the government. If he wants to take advantage of all the tax breaks for his giving, then he should just be quiet about not paying enough taxes. IMHO.

  7. itolduso

    “Where I have questions from time to time revolves more around the “charitable… purposes” of the donee organization.”

    Yeah, my too.

  8. fragotwofortwo

    I’m not sure how I would react to this situation.

    An ABC News employee said she was subject to a “demeaning” search at Newark Liberty International Airport Sunday morning.

    “The woman who checked me reached her hands inside my underwear and felt her way around,” she said. “It was basically worse than going to the gynecologist. It was embarrassing. It was demeaning. It was inappropriate.”

    That search was against protocols and “never” should have happened, TSA Administrator John Pistole told “Good Morning America” today.

  9. We gave away personal freedoms in hysterical reactions to 911 and there seems to be no end.

    I’ve read where a woman who’d had a mastectomy had to expose her artificial breast, a bladder cancer survivor’s urostomy bag was dislodged and spilled urine all over him and his clothing. And no one deserves to be put through these invasive searches, including the machine that looks through your underwear, without cause!

    It is unacceptable!

    • fragotwofortwo

      It is unacceptable. To me it exposes the illusion of our concepts and institutions.

    • I think all the increased security put in place since 911 is a dog and pony show. Have you watched those TSA people? They are disinterested. However, I have yet to stand in those lines, trying to hold up my pants since I took off my belt, hoist my carry on and cell phone, laptop, coat and shoes onto the conveyor belt with the other hand, without hearing someone talking about how they would do this and more since it ensures their safety!

  10. tosmarttobegop

    With all the outcry with the phrase starting out with “Nuns are not…. Teenage handicapped girls…”
    Reminded me of the first real revelation I had after becoming a jailer.

    In a place where everyone behind the bars was accused of committing a crime.
    It stuck me that none of them actually looked any different then anyone I had met before becoming a jailer.
    None of them had sloped foreheads or horns or anything about them that actually set them a part from society as a whole.

    It is not only people of middle eastern decent that hates the United States or thinks we are the enemy of the world. Ideology is not dependant on a nation of origins or a religious belief to be an influence on someone’s thinking.

    Now I am not wanting to spread the unreasoning fear by implying that everyone should be a suspect.
    That is what the terrorists want us to react with and is more destructive then the bombs and flying planes into buildings.

  11. fragotwofortwo

    What is freedom?
    Why is freedom not free?
    How come freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose?

  12. I heard a police officer interviewed and he said there was no way he could conduct searches that invasive without cause.

  13. itolduso

    fnord says: We’re all free to share our differing opinions but we can and will do it without denigrating another poster

    What are you talking about? i agreed with Indypendent!!

    The fool quoted is exactly that, a fool.

    • Your response was one word. I took the one word to be referring to Indy. I’m sorry I misunderstood, and will put your comment back as posted.

  14. itolduso

    Sorry, I said Idiot, not fool. And he is. How is agreeing with a poster denigrating that poster?

  15. tosmarttobegop


    sorry that just hit me when I read your question….

  16. Your comment is restored to exactly what you posted.

    • itolduso

      Thank you.

      And since it apparently needs clarification, since apparently it can easily be assumed that i call other bloggers here names, I will clarify it for all of you:

      Bryan Fischer, a columnist for the American Family Association, IS AN IDIOT, And a NONPATRIOT TO BOOT!!

  17. I’m lost too. Maybe someone will find one of us and direct us appropriately. If it’s me that is shown how to be ‘unlost,’ I will attempt to find you and share the help.

  18. tosmarttobegop

    “How is agreeing with a poster denigrating that poster?”


    sorry that just hit me when I read your question….

    How about ” everyone knows you are crazy and you agreeing with me makes it seem I must be too!”

  19. itolduso

    My apologies to Indypendent if she was offended.

  20. itolduso


    “LOS ANGELES – Drinking glasses depicting comic book and movie characters such as Superman, Wonder Woman and the Tin Man from “The Wizard of Oz” exceed federal limits for lead in children’s products by up to 1,000 times, according to laboratory testing commissioned by The Associated Press.

    The decorative enamel on the superhero and Oz sets — made in China and purchased at a Warner Brothers Studios store in Burbank — contained between 16 percent and 30.2 percent lead. The federal limit on children’s products is 0.03 percent.

    The same glasses also contained relatively high levels of the even-more-dangerous cadmium, though there are no federal limits on that toxic metal in design surfaces.”

    Insist on American made. Even though, in this instance, It may have been difficult to determine by the consumer where these were made. The warning goes out to sellers and resellers as well.

    • Are there any made in America? We don’t make a bunch of stuff nowadays.

    • Last Mother’s Day I was gifted with some drinking glasses “made from hand-worked borosilicate glass” by Roost. I just tried to ‘google’ them to discover whether they are American made with no luck. Maybe I’m not a good googler? They are called Dainty Glasses from Roost.

  21. itolduso

    You are right. And we will make less as long as people only care about one thing……price.

    • These glasses were expensive. I did find this:

      200 Gate Five Road No. 116 Sausalito CA 94965

      I still don’t know whether they’re made in America.

    • I will change that to say they are expensive for my budget, I suppose some would find them a bargain.

    • indypendent

      Price of the goods we purchase or the fact we have sold our soul to the highest bidder?

      Reagan made it fashionable to decimate the middle class in America. Reagan made it fashionable to cut out all the social programs that helped the average American.

      Reagan made it fashionable to be greedy. After all – the 80’s were known as the greed decade.

      Reagan also made it fashionable to give weapons to our enemy Iran but somehow he is still worshipped by millions of elephants everywhere.

  22. itolduso

    Their website does not say where there products are made. The only you can tell, I guess, is to find them somewhere and look at the label. Country of origin must be identified.

    • I long ago threw away the box they were packaged in, and the only ‘label’ I remember on the glasses themselves was a tiny peel-off paper that said ROOST.

      So if I went shopping online I couldn’t know.

      I too would like to buy American when possible, but how in the world do we determine that?

  23. indypendent

    6176 brings up a good point – Where I have questions from time to time revolves more around the “charitable… purposes” of the donee organization.

    I fail to see anything charitable about some church who builds a huge monument, erects big gold cross and has a gym for their exclusive members.

    Exactly who is being helped in this scenario? Certainly not the taxpayers – because that church does not pay any real estate tax.

    And I heard neither God nor Jesus ever use a gym.

  24. itolduso

    There are websites that list such things. And, it seems to my experience, those products that are made in America, usually say so. Those that don’t, are in my mind, suspect and need further review if you truly wish to buy American made. This is not a new occurence. One of my part time things I do is deal in primarily American made “antiques” and collectibles. Mostly pre WW2, I deal heavily in Pottery and glass made in Ohio. Those companies were basically forced out of business by cheaper Japanese products. Many people just bought on price, not caring where it was made. This has been going on for a long time, and not a recent occurence.

  25. indypendent

    Read this article and then think about which party is proud to demonize education. It is now somehow fashionable to be just a good ol’ boy or girl with below-average intelligence, as long as you are with the ‘right’ group.

    Our future of the country rests with our young people. And if this article is any preview of our future – God help us all,.

    Here’s another thought – exactly who do these senior citizens think their health care is going to be paid for if the younger generation has no prospects for a bright future? A war is coming and it will not be a race war – it will an economic war.

    IMHO – the younger generation needs to form their own grassroots movement and find a totally independent political streak. It’s about time the younger voters learn what these seniors have known for years – those who vote regularly, are willing to wear teabag stapled hats and scream the loudest seem to get what they want.

    I’m all for abolishment of Medicare – then we’ll see how much the private health insurance companies really care about those seniors. I suspect not many private health insurance companies are going to line up at their front door to be responsible for paying for all the seniors’ aches and pains.

  26. itolduso

    It is now somehow fashionable to be just a good ol’ boy or girl with below-average intelligence, as long as you are with the ‘right’ group.


    • indypendent

      You have not heard the populism of hating all the elitists? Elitist is code word for ‘educated’.
      You betcha!

  27. indypendent

    fnord – alot of companies used to make their products in USA but maybe now they are not. If your glasses are dated – perhaps that will help you to determine where they were made?

    Our world has become globalized and as a result, nobody knows where anything is made anymore.

    As for people buying just based on price -isn’t that the mantra for today? Walmart is all the time telling us how they are going around and cutting their prices and we all go YEA!!!!

    • indypendent

      P.S. – I have paid more for a USA product because I am tired of buying this chinese crap and have it break on me within the first week. Why buy 5 of something because it keeps breaking when I could buy 1 from a quality company?

      but, then agan, the stockholders would not be happy if they only sold one product as compared to 5 from china. There lies the rub.

    • itolduso

      “As for people buying just based on price -isn’t that the mantra for today? ”

      that is correct. And the people do it. They want cheaper prices, and yet bitch and moan when companies want cheaper prices on labor. They go hand in hand. Be part of the solution….. Buy local, Buy American.

  28. itolduso

    P.S. – I have paid more for a USA product because I am tired of buying this chinese crap and have it break on me within the first week.

    Good for you!!!

  29. itolduso

    Elitist is code word for ‘educated’.

    If you say so.

  30. indypendent

    How can you buy American when the product is not available?

    Be part of the solution and stop voting for politicians giving our tax dollars to companies to oursource American jobs.

    • itolduso

      How do you know it is not? And what tax dollars have been given to companies to outsource American jobs? And if their taxes were reduced, they weren’t your tax dollars to start with, those dollars were the companies. So, which companies were given subsidies to outsource American jobs. ANd how many government contracts were and still are given to foreign companies?

    • itolduso

      Please give me a list of such

  31. indypendent

    I wonder how many of those proud Tea Party Rebranded Recycled Republicans wore products with the American Flag on them and the same products were made in China?

    Yeah, they’re great Americans – NOT.

    • itolduso

      Well, to use your arguments….they couldn’t find any made in America.
      As long as you demonize others, you are part of the problem. That doesn’t matter which side of the aisle you are on.


  32. itolduso

    “Me and alot of other peole say so.”

    Me and a lot of other people say you are wrong.

    • indypendent

      Look at my posted comment below – this started during the 2008 presidential campaign.

    • It’s one of the many criticisms of President Obama — elitist… it gets much worse from there but it’s all aimed at he is ‘different.’ I say thank goodness! If Palin is like most Americans, I am ‘different’ too!

  33. itolduso

    Okay, no more Tit for Tat for me. I’m done.

  34. itolduso

    Anchor Hocking manufactures substantially all of its products at the company’s facilities in the United States and markets its products internationally.

  35. itolduso

    it seems I have dominated the thread in the number of posts. SOrry, just wanted to start getting the word out.

    Bye for now

  36. This is a true story.

    My daughter visited Italy and found some hand-blown glass pieces she loved. They were made by Karg Glass in Kechi, Kansas. 🙂

  37. indypendent

    The ‘right’ group has made elitism a code word ever since the 2008 presidential campaign:

    Then factor in the belief of these same ‘right’ people that we need to get rid of public education. The future of our country is in deep trouble if we continue on this populism road to even more ignorance in the world.

  38. indypendent

    Kechi is trying to rebuild their little city into an arts haven. There are some shops around there – but not like it was in the past decade.

  39. indypendent

    But we didn’t go to Italy to buy them, we only traveled to Kechi

    fnord and all others – as a word of caution from one who lives up in this neck of the woods – watch your speed when driving – both in Kechi and Bel Aire.

  40. fragotwofortwo

    evil corporations and the ongoing, evolving mortgage scams

    • wicked

      Wow. And Matt didn’t use the F-word even once!

      BTW, I love Matt Taibbi. He tells this stuff in a way that even I can begin to understand. My oldest has a subscription to Rolling Stone and shares them with me. (That in itself makes me laugh.)

  41. indypendent

    Interesting reading. If you go to such lengths to hide someone’s identity, is this something that needs to be broadcasted throughout the country? I really don’t care who Palin pays from her PAC, but those pesky little financial disclosures – now if we can only do away with those…..
    dont’ worry little one – those elephants are working on not only getting rid of the financial disclosure requirements but all regulations.

    • indypendent

      One of the things about this mystery man is his anti-Muslim rhetoric. Maybe that is what the attraction is – a fellow believer in the the Holy War to end all holy wars?

  42. indypendent

    There is a difference between liberal billionaires and conservative billionaires – conservatives have a rich daddy.

  43. tosmarttobegop

    “How is agreeing with a poster denigrating that poster?”
    sorry that just hit me when I read your question….
    How about ” everyone knows you are crazy and you agreeing with me makes it seem I must be too!”

    LOL after I posted that I move on to that other blog and posted a few things.
    AND J.J. agreed with me! He even stated as if it was unbelievable that he was agreeing with me.
    Gee progress we went from him threatening me with his big gun and all his friends with their big guns coming looking for me. To agreeing with something I said, either the lions are laying down with the lambs or the devil is needing to invest in a good winter coat?