Tuesday, 11/16/10, Public Square

It’s OK to have an opinion; it’s not OK to put down anyone else for having one too.


Filed under The Public Square

58 responses to “Tuesday, 11/16/10, Public Square

  1. GMC70

    It’s OK to have an opinion; it’s not OK to put down anyone else for having one too.

    I agree. The problem, of course, is that on this site simply disagreeing with the appointed regulars is characterized as “putting down.” Dissent is simply not welcome here.

    Sorry, folks, that’s just the way it is.

    • Do you have anything other than a complaint to share? I’m not sorry you don’t like this blog, I just don’t understand why you subject yourself to it since it’s such a terribly intolerant place. It is noted that you stopped by again to tell us what a terrible place you think this blog is.

      Here’s the very first post you ever made to PPPs — it lives under the tab “RULES.”

      October 30, 2009 at 12:23 pm

      “I will delete comments that: . . . . ”

      In other words, you’ll delete what you disagree with; what a surprise (rolls eyes). Enjoy your little (boring) utopia. Your ideas, if not your hate, is missed in the old place. But then, you’re not about ideas, you’re about hate.

      Yea, I know, you’ll delete this too. That’s fear expressing itself.

    • Hmmmm. It would be interesting to have a way to access all the comments in a blog and group together all comments made by one person. I would be interested in reading why GMC70 feels their dissent has not been welcome. I, personally, have not felt that here.

    • Steven, who began this blog, and GMC had butted heads at another blog, and when GMC first posted here Steven wasn’t a nice host. Steven died last spring, there was never a repeat of that first inhospitable exchange and no one other than Steven did anything more than extend a welcome. Some memories stay alive it seems, and maybe fester… We’ve been judged, sometimes we come out on the positive side, this time not.

      We’re moving forward. No one should subject themselves to a place that is unpleasant, kinda takes the fun out of blogging. 😉

    • snoringdogstudio

      I’ve read a lot of blogs, but this one is remarkably willing to accept all opinions, even dissenting ones. I’m confident that fnord doesn’t do a lot of blocking other than spam. On the other hand, on my blog, I’m more restrictive. It isn’t that I don’t want competing opinions, I’d just rather not hear the same old vindictive sound bites. I’d welcome discussion. This blog does it well.

  2. fragotwofortw0


    never listened to this guy before. Interesting perspective.

    • That was interesting!

      …crowd / mass psychology finds that people are moved not by fact or even what is rational, but instead by manipulation of emotions. The masses are manipulated to call for their own enslavement through hysteria.

      His thoughts on the hypocrisy of ‘the church’ was a little broad, although I agree with him that the Pat Robertson types have indeed utterly perverted the core gospel and turned it into greed, cult of self and consumerism.

      He isn’t a fan of Bill Clinton or George Bush!

      Thanks for sharing!

    • “Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are anger and courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be.” — St. Augustine of Hippo

  3. wicked

    Castle was interesting last night. What I like about it the most–besides Nathan Fillion and Susan Sullivan and…the entire cast–is how well plotted and full of twists and turns each show always is. The writers should have a couple of Emmys. Last night’s episode never dragged, had the right touch of humor (and romance) and had a satisfactory and believable (fictional) ending, especially considering the context of the “crime” and all the possibilities that were thrown out.

    Kudos to writers, cast, and crew!

    • Agreed, wicked. Wasn’t Lyle Lovett casting as one of the agents wonderful (at least from a physical appearance perspective)?

    • I’ve never watched this program. Is it too late to begin, will I have missed info I need to understand?

    • wicked

      Definitely, 6176! Strange that I’d just mentioned him Saturday night to family. (We call that the woo-woo factor. HA!)

    • wicked

      fnord, I didn’t get into it until the beginning of last season, which was the second, so missed the entire first. I wasn’t lost and doubt you would be, either. There might be a reference here and there to something in an older episode, but that’s about it. Anything major (after season 1) that brings up a question, just ask me. For instance, Beckett’s apartment was bombed last season, and I’ve heard passing references to that this season.

      You can watch all of this season’s full episodes at http://abc.go.com/shows/castle/video. I found watching the episodes running up to the latest is a big help. 🙂

      It’s also a really fun and funny show. I’m always laughing at something Castle says–he gets so into the cases–and Beckett’s reaction to him. Good sexual tension, too. 😉

    • wicked

      Oh, yes, I also bought my daughter a copy of Naked Heat by “Richard Castle.” Just checked the copyright page out of curiousity.

      Castle © ABC Studios. All Rights Reserved (hope that shows up correctly)

  4. On a different topic.

    It appears there is some form of malware out there that “infects” a user’s computer, captures his/her email contact list, and uses the information so obtained to send spurious emails. Example 1: I’ve received two emails in the past month from an acquaintance that contains a sad story relating that the contact has been in England on vacation, money/credit cards stolen, emailing from an internet cafe, etc. This was an obvious scam in this case, as the “sender” would not be in England.

    Example 2: There has been a three day stream of emails, “no topic” from another acquaintance, each of which contained a link to a Canadian site, offering inter alia, ED drugs at a certain price (which, I guess, is supposed to be a good deal). Again, knowing the person, I think it is safe to say this wasn’t done by the putative sender.

    Just a “heads up”. Keep the AV, etc., updated, and be careful opening emails.

  5. It didn’t take long to come to this conclusion!

    Rangel Found Guilty Of Ethics Violations


  6. WSClark

    We can do better than this, GMC. Like everyone else, you are welcome here – just remember that this is a monitored blog with rules. There is another blog with basically no rules where most anything goes. It is non-productive to interject personal insults and name-calling into a discussion.

    As with any discussion, opinions can be strong and the rules of decorum can be stretched to the breaking point. That is human nature, but we need to step back when that happens and realize that we are all fellow travelers on this planet.

    I would like to see you visit us, GMC and add to the conversation. For the record, very few posts are ever deleted and only one poster has ever been banned.

  7. fragotwofortwo

    Take a look outside Wichita things will never be the same here.


    Nov. 16 (Bloomberg) — Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China announced its first 100 C919 passenger-plane orders, breaking Airbus SAS and Boeing Co.’s stranglehold on the world’s second- largest aircraft market.

    General Electric Co.’s leasing arm and China’s big three domestic airlines are among customers for the narrowbody plane, state-controlled Comac said in a statement issued at the Zhuhai air show in southern China today. Chinese airlines accounted for more than half the orders, said Zhang Xinguo, vice president of Comac shareholder, Aviation Industry Corp. of China.

    Comac has a full-sized model of the front section of the aircraft on display at the show as it challenges Boeing and Airbus’s grip on a domestic plane market that could be worth $480 billion through 2029, according to Boeing. The Chinese planemaker expects to sell more than 2,000 C919s worldwide over 20 years competing against Boeing and Airbus’s most popular jets.

    • wicked

      Someone please straighten me out, but isn’t Boeing out of the commercial airplane business? Isn’t that what Spirit bought, leaving military aircraft Boeing’s sole business?

      Or am I, as usual, confused?

    • Spirit must only be that part that was in Wichita? I, too, could use some updating on facts.

      Their “ABOUT” page at the company’s website says —

      Boeing is the world’s largest aerospace company and leading manufacturer of commercial jetliners and defense, space and security systems. A top U.S. exporter, the company supports airlines and U.S. and allied government customers in more than 90 countries.


  8. itolduso

    “Someone please straighten me out, but isn’t Boeing out of the commercial airplane business? Isn’t that what Spirit bought, leaving military aircraft Boeing’s sole business”

    No they are not. They are “building” commercial aircraft right and left. However, they have sold off most of their backshop capabilities, and are focusing on their “core competencies” by mostly doing final assembly work.

  9. itolduso

    They may also be building their own wings, but I am unsure of that.

    it is a plan being followed by many. Sad to say

  10. Is Beech still the only company that makes military trainers?

    • itolduso

      They were the sole source selected for the jpats program, a trainer for joint services primary training aircraft. I do not know if any others are currently being built.

  11. Thunderchild

    I know I don’t come here a lot to comment. I have my…thing…I do over at that other place. I fight. It’s what I do.

    I don’t see some of you over there as often as I wish I would. SO, I wanted to bring this here. Please, indulge me and read.

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    The cons want to make this a “cause”?

    Moderates and liberals should too.

    You said there were no boos “Shocker”?

    You lied.

    Brandy sent packing, Bristol survives to finale on ‘Dancing with the Stars’
    By Lisa de Moraes

    Judging from the final moments of Tuesday night’s elimination episode, things could get tense next week when the winner is named for this edition of ABC’s dance competition series, “Dancing with the Stars.”

    Bristol Palin and Mark Ballas perform on “Dancing With the Stars.”(ABC/Adam Larkey)

    Some studio audience members booed in the final minutes of Tuesday’s results show when host Tom Bergeron announced that pop singer Brandy was out and Sarah Palin’s daughter Bristol had made it through to the final round of competition next week.

    Actress Jennifer Grey and Disney star Kyle Massey had already gotten word they’d made it through to the final week.

    Offstage, Grey’s dance partner Derek Hough was visibly stunned. Likewise the show’s three professional judges, and co-host Brooke Burke.

    “This is such a shock!” Brooke said, throwing it to Bruno.

    “I’m shocked,” emoted judge Bruno Tonioli . “I want to stress it’s very important for everybody to vote. It’s so close, every vote counts. I’m so disappointed!” Bruno emoted, asking Brandy if she’d come back and dance on next Monday’s performance show anyway.

    “Will you come and do it for me – for us? Come on!”

    Asked by Burke how she felt, Brandy responded:

    “I don’t know how to feel right now. This hasn’t processed right now for me,” said a surprised Brandy.

    Bergeron stepped up and hugged Brandy as she began to tear up.

    Jennifer and Kyle had gone into Tuesday night’s results show with the most points from the three pros after dancing two dances apiece on Monday. Jennifer got a perfect score of 60 for her two dances, while Kyle snagged 58 points. Brandy was right behind him, at 57 points, and Bristol brought up the rear with 53 points from the judges, though that was her personal best on the show to date.

    But that was business as usual for this edition of “Dancing.” Bristol, who went into the competition with no dance and no performance background, has consistently wound up at the bottom of the point heap. But, week after week, people — some who have watched the show and, if tweets, blog accounts, and message boards are to be believed, some who have not – have been keeping her in the competition.

    Who survives each week on this show is determined by a formula of judges’ points and people’s votes.

    After the announcement, Bergeron asked Brandy’s dance partner Maks Chmerkovskiy: “This season struck me as the most surprising in that couples who would get their highest score on Monday night were often the ones who left on Tuesday night. What do you think has been different this season?”

    Maks, with uncharacteristic restraint, responded that one thing he loves about the fact that his parents came to this country is “the fact that people vote and their voices count and I love the fact that the show represents that. And it represents the people’s choice.”

    Tuesday morning, Web site Jezebel linked to comments on conservative Web site HillBuzz, in which people discussed having figured out a way to game ABC’s email-voting feature, due to a technical glitch on the site.

    “Here’s a hint: They don’t have to be VALID email addresses to register them with ABC.com, there is apparently no validation process,” said one commenter. “They just have to be formatted like a valid email address, and you must use a valid zip code and a birthdate that makes you old enough to vote. No, it doesn’t have to be a valid email address – I had one of my anonymous ones XXX@yahoo.com that I used, and then just did the sign-up process all over again with XXX1@yahoo.com and it worked.”

    “Lord have mercy, I voted for 3 hours online! I got 300 in,” said another commenter.

    After Tuesday’s results show, Hillbuzz posted a screen shot of Jennifer Grey and Derek Hough’s reaction to Bergeron’s announcement that Bristol, not Brandy, was the third dancer making it through to next week:

    “Thank you all for helping Bristol Palin…just look at Jennifer Grey’s face… Says it all. Our Bristol is in the finale. The woman impersonating Jennifer Grey looked pissed. [Brandy] is eliminated and hopefully not allowed to drive herself home. How do we win this for Bristol?”

    Friends? This isn’t right. In that it IS right wing but it aint right in the sense that it is not fair.

    The right wing is USING the daughter of Sarah Palin. Just as her own mother is using her. SO, someone has to start a counter attack.

    Find out how to vote. Use the information the cons have GIVEN here as to how THEY are trying to defraud the vote. Defeat Bristol Palin. It will be doing her a favor, I promise you. The way this….mother…and her political cronies are using her children is shameful and MUST be countered.

  12. itolduso

    In my opinion, the “people” should not have a vote at all, most not having a clue as to the complexities of judging something like dance. Leave it to the professionals.

  13. The show is more about personalities than talent. Those casting votes for Palin prove they aren’t connoisseurs of dance.

    It does bother me that someone like Sarah Palin can elicit such support. We know Bristol Palin wouldn’t have made it this far if she wasn’t Sarah’s daughter so it’s Sarah’s fans who have voted. That she is held in high esteem by many is troubling to me. Americans sure have low expectations for those they admire!

    • itolduso

      The show is more about personalities than talent. Those casting votes for Palin prove they aren’t connoisseurs of dance

      I used to watch this show. WHen it became apparent that the above
      ( more about personalities than talent) was true, I quit watching.
      That was several seasons ago.

    • I don’t see why anyone associated with the show could be surprised, or complain, since the format of the show allows it to be about popularity instead of talent.

      I haven’t watched for several seasons either. In fact, my favorite in all the world television show, Antiques Roadshow, comes on the same night at the same time so my television is tuned into PBS.

      I was a faithful watcher and voter during the season Helio Castroneves was a contestant. My sister works with him, I had actually met him and because of that little personal touch it made the show interesting to me. Haven’t voted since, and haven’t watched more than a few minutes occasionally. I will admit I tuned in to see whether Bristol could dance; learned she couldn’t and seems not to be very entertaining either. I think most of those who have been successful have been at least one — a good dancer or a good entertainer.

    • wicked

      I’ve never watched this show, except for the last two minutes or so after changing the channel to watch Castle. I don’t watch anything that could be remotely called “reality” because it’s not.

      Two things could be possible. Bristol truly wanted to appear on this show, then Sarah stuck her nose in and made it about her. Or Sarah insisted her daughter do the show.

      Unless Sarah has been behind the scenes on all of the Bristol “news,” then I’d have to say that Bristol is an attention ho, and I’ll give one guess where she learned it.

  14. itolduso

    then I’d have to say that Bristol is an attention ho

    Every been around “celebrities”? They all are.

    • wicked

      LOL What’s your definition of ‘celebrity,’ itolduso? I’m curious. I think everyone sees it in a little different way.

    • wicked

      I’m coming back to this because some thoughts came to mind. (Amazing, I know.)

      I don’t think all “celebrities” are attention hoes. In the Hollywood movie world, the first that comes to mind is Johnny Depp. He’s a very private person. There are others. Some use their celebrity status to speak out for others, some use it for other means. Some are splashed all over the tabloids (I consider People one of those.), becaues they can’t seem to get their lives straight.

      I’ve met ‘celebrities’ in the writing world, and the same is true of them.

  15. Another Palin female makes herself a public figure —


    Willow Palin Facebook Posts: Homophobic Slurs, Curse Words & More (PHOTOS)

    Willow Palin, the 16-year-old daughter of former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, wrote multiple Facebook posts containing homophobic slurs such as “faggot” on Sunday night, according to TMZ.

    The web site reports that Palin’s teenage daughter wrote the comments on Sunday night, when her mother’s television show “Sarah Palin’s Alaska” premiered on TLC. According to TMZ, a classmate of one of Palin’s children published a Facebook update claiming that the show “is failing so hard right now.”

    Willow Palin reportedly unloaded on the student, calling him “so gay” and “such a faggot.” She later demanded that the student “quit talkin shit about my family.”

    continued —


    Seems someone may need some guidance, some nourishing, some parental attention.

    • wicked

      I did see a news blip that “Sarah Palin’s Alaska’ had good ratings for the first show. At least that one was a hit. Just how much Alaska people are willing and eager to see is the question. But it is the biggest state, so who knows?

    • wicked

      I also heard that Willow had a male guest in her bedroom. Of course I don’t know exactly what was going on, but Mama Grizzly was a tad upset. 😉

    • I noticed from Willow’s Facebook postings she doesn’t understand the words your and you’re, but she does know that famous phrase, Stand The Floor Up.

    • wicked

      If Sarah had been smart, she’d have kept her kids out of the limelight. Instead, she tried to make them appear perfect and now proves herself a fool.

      My kids are far from perfect and always have been. I’ll be the first one to say so. They’re human, like me. Of course I’ll brag when they do well, but there must be a good reason or a good friend who cares to hear it. Oh, and I don’t expect them to be perfect, either. What I expect is for them to do their best, whenever possible, and to treat others well.

  16. I’ve never been there and it is a trip I would love to make. I think of Alaska as America’s last frontier. Both Griffin and I would like to go there so it’s likely we will. If all goes well he will retire in 3 or 4 years and we’ll do more traveling…

    Another trip we’re planning is to go to Boston to see the kids, rent a car there and drive up the coast all the way to Nova Scotia.

    • wicked

      I have a friend who’s gone, and my mother took a cruise there. From the pictures I’ve seen, it’s beautiful, and pictures never do justice. 🙂 I’ve been to all 48 ‘continental’ states, Canada twice, Mexico twice, and Cuba. (We did a LOT of traveling when I was small.) I haven’t been to Alaska or Hawaii and doubt I ever will. I’ll be envying you and Griffin, fnord. 😉

      My dream U.S. vacation is to take my youngest (21) on a train trip that encompasses Boston, Philly, NYC, and DC. Outside of the U.S. would be a trip to Greece, as in a Mediterranean cruise. I’m not holding my breath on either of those. LOL

    • I rode the train from Boston to DC a few years back. It was an overnight trip and we slept most of the time we were on board. Stopping at each of those destinations would be great! Amtrak sells a ‘pass’ that allows you to get off and back on at destinations of your choosing.

    • fnord,

      When you take said trip, will you go on U.S. 1 or I-95 until it ends at Caribou, then on 1 to the border? Staying on U.S. 1 will keep you on/near the coast, I-95 not so much.

      BTW, if one goes to Bar Harbor, there is a ferry that can be used to go to Nova Scotia as I recall. During the Summer, primarily.

    • wicked

      sigh Another trip (to Maine) I’d like to take. I’ve been to Maine, but only a few miles into the state. I’m not even sure when.

      While I was fortunate to travel when I was small, there’s a lot I don’t remember and, of course, didn’t appreciate at the time. I remember the trip to Florida when I was 3, some of it in blazing detail. That’s when we went to Cuba. I do remember the flight from Key West to Havana very vividly, but not much more.

      Luckily my dad was a movie taker (8mm, naturally), so seeing those places again triggers old memories. There’s not a lot of memory making these days.

    • It will be Hwy 1, for sure, and it will be late summer (we’ve been warned it would be unwise to start any later than August), unhurried, unplanned to some extent. We went to Ireland twice in this manner — stopped when we saw something we wanted to see closer, drove mostly along the coastline. Although we did make some reservations there were some nights we found a place to stay when we were ready to stop…

    • Griffin warning: U.S. 1 passes through Kittery and Freeport. Outlet stores both places. Need I say more? Although, all joking aside, the L.L. Bean “complex” in Freeport needs to be seen to be believed, and, if that’s not your style, there are in excess of 150 retail shops in Freeport, many of which are outlet stores.

      Favorite, quirky Maine store: Cool as a Moose (these are scattered around in Maine). The graphics on the T-Shirts are great.

  17. itolduso

    LOL What’s your definition of ‘celebrity,’ itolduso? I’m curious. I think everyone sees it in a little different way.
    My use of the term, and it’s remark, was too wide. However, in my mind, there are professionals…and there are celebrities. Professionals go about their business, working their craft, and get paid …sometimes handsomely.
    Celebrities crave the limelight, and the glitter, and and the attention of the press, until they become successful, then they want the press to go away.
    Celebrities trounce themselves from talk show to talk show, promoting themselves and their movies or books, Professionals, I think, less so.

    It’s rather generic, and I probably shouldn;t have used it.

    Those few whom I have met, crave the limelight. Much as Bristol Palin has done in her appearance on Dancing. More so Sarah, who has made her family trips in Alaska a media event.

    It could just be that Celebrities are Professionals in the making.

    For instance, Harrison Ford frequently visits Wichta, shunning the limelight as he does. The much earlier Harrison Ford? Seems like not so much as I recall. But my memory dims…..that was such a long time ago, in a place far far away

    • wicked

      Good definitions. I agree.

      As for Harrison Ford, yes, I know he’s often in town. And from what I’ve heard from those who’ve spoken with him, he’s very nice and not at all “starry.” I’d love to get a glimpse of him. I do think he’s stayed out of the Hollywood limelight for many, many years, as you said, from a galaxy far, far away. Didn’t he trade his Cessna for a Beechcraft?

      Lots of people stop in Wichita. Neil Young stops by now and then. Kevin Costner is a WSU baseball fan. Keanu Reeves was at Denny’s with his band several years ago. (I had a friend who happened to have the band’s CD in the car and had it autographed. I have a photo of the autographed CD, which is worth…absolutely nothing. LOL) Our aircraft companies have, in the past, brought in many celebrities, but rarely does anyone know.

      My son-in-law works near the airport, and he sees many ‘stars’ pass through.

      They’re people. Some I admire, some I don’t. Like you, I suspect, it’s the ones who crave to be seen that are on my ‘don’t’ list. 😉

  18. There’s a little club named Barney’s in a strip mall on the northeast corner of Maple and Central — I saw Harrison Ford in there one night with a bunch of guys from Flight Safety. I tried my best to not stare, to allow him a private night out. I didn’t interrupt or ask for his autograph or call everyone I knew to come quick…

    WITH GREAT ENTHUSIASM — But I was there and he was there and our tables were very close and it was very cool and I’ve told most everyone! He was dressed like everyone else — jeans, shirt, tennis shoes. He rec’d a call on his cell phone so he went outside and talked there (paced on the sidewalk out front a bit), I admired the fact that he was courteous about taking his call. 😉

    • wicked

      Oh, holy cow! I don’t think I could’ve restrained myself as you did. Seriously. Oh, all right, I would, because I’m not the type to run over and gush. But I’d be on the verge of tears because I couldn’t make myself at least TOUCH! LOL