Friday, 11/5/10, Public Square

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Filed under The Public Square

95 responses to “Friday, 11/5/10, Public Square

  1. itolduso

    Good morning one and all.

  2. wicked

    A comment left on one of the Eagle’s articles this morning. Just a reminder of what’s to come.

    First order of business in Kansas: a constitutional amendment to remove the requirement that the government has to fund public education! The government should not be in the business of running schools. If you can’t afford private schools you don’t deserve education! The Tea Party won this election, not the Republicans! Get out of our way – we’re taking our country back!

    Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2010/11/05/1573836/sue-schlapp-on-brownback-team.html#ixzz14PnvYCNN

    • wicked

      I only wonder if this person were to be in a position of not being able to pay for his children’s education if he would feel the same way. In this economy in this state, there’s no telling what can happen.

    • Home schooled maybe. The children may be learning exactly as much as this individual knows.

      There are successful home schools that rely on experts in diverse fields. I’m not painting with a broad brush or putting all educations acquired through home schooling in one box.

    • wicked

      fnord, I not only have friends who have homeschooled, but I did it myself for a short time. I can honestly say that some (the minority) succeed, while the majority of parents don’t have the needed tools, i.e. time, patience, and an education of their own. I admit to being in the minority, when all was said and done. The good thing that came out of that was that I realized it early on and was able to try something different which did work for a while.

      I have a very good friend who, when her twin daughters were in fifth grade, decided to homeschool. They later returned to public school. Their younger brother began as homeschooled, then went to a church school later. I think he finished school in public school, but I’m not completely sure. She knew her limits, which I found admirable.

      What all that boils down to is that homeschooling is not the answer. Those cracks kids slip through will become as wide as the Grand Canyon in a generation or two. I know, I’m preaching to the choir. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • wicked

      I guess my question would be just how many tea party candidates won in Kansas? Were there any? And if there were, how many and what was the percentage?

      Does anyone know?

    • I don’t know. I haven’t seen a difference between GOP and tea party. Oh, I know what they say, but it will take evidence to convince me there is a difference.

      Kansas is a GOP state so weren’t all the candidates elected deemed to be tea party candidates?

  3. indypendent

    The issue of Obama’s trip to India costing $200 million was recently brought up on this blog. In the interest of using factual information, I did some searching for the truth and found this is what Snopes had to say about the matter.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/india.asp

    • You all know my hubby is not interested in politics.

      Last evening at dinner he said he had to respond and involve himself in a political conversation at work. I was shocked! He simply doesn’t involve himself.

      Well it seems the conversation was about President Obama’s trip to Asia and one person said he was taking __ fighter jets, ___ people and staying at the Taj Mahal… You’ve all heard the stupid stories. Griffin said he interjected that the Taj Mahal is a mausoleum and no one was going to stay there. The coworker argued! Griffin didn’t encourage the conversation to continue or say anything more. Well, the day went on and it seems the coworker spent some time discovering what the TajMahal really is and came back to report there is a hotel with the same name and he didn’t know that but everything else he said was absolutely factual. He never even once realized that if one bit of his information was wrong he might need to study the other bits further. Nope! He had all the information he wanted to draw the conclusions he desired.

    • Here you can listen to Michele Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh and all the other liars tell America about President Obama’s trip.

      http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/05/5413138-fact-rachel-maddow-never-closes-her-eyes

  4. indypendent

    wicked – these are the same folks that demonize government run health care but just try to get their Medicare out of their hands – they will eat you alive.

    Someone who cannot see that the education of all our children should be a priority is someone who would not know that their party of Big Business is the one that brought the illegal immigrants into the country in the first place to exploit the cheap labor. Because these are the same folks who want us to build our version of the Berlin Wall to keep ‘those’ people out.

    I am not saying that we need to keep throwing money at a broken education system or to keep throwing money at the illegal immigration problem.

    But not educating our children and not going after those employers who are hiring the illegals should not be the answer.

    But, in the end, with Republicans in charge – we know that the money talks and B.S. walks.

    I just have to wonder at what point will these geniuses get it through their heads, if there are no jobs, no education in the hopes of getting a job – whose going to be paying for Gramps’ Viagra for his next tea party?

  5. indypendent

    As I listened to Mitch McConnell yesterday, I just had to laugh.

    This guy has just overplayed his hand and he does not know it.

    American voters are tired of the do-nothing Congress and McConnell promises investigations, hearings and more of the same ol’ Just Say No?

    If the Republicans think they were voted in power at the House because people prefer their version of governing, they are sadly mistaken.

    What I suspect will happen this time around – a new grassroots movement will start to form and it won’t be any rancid tea poisoned by the likes of the established GOP and rebranded to be something new.

    This time – it will be moderates in both parties and indpendents who have had their fill from both fringe groups who need to learn to sit down and STFU.

    But let’s just watch how McConnell and Boehner play this out – I suspect they are not the brightest bulbs on the Xmas tree. They have both been played like a $2 fiddle before – haven’t they?

    I wonder if the majority of Tea Partiers have realized yet that their so-called leaders are both long-term Republican incumbents? I thought the TP’ers hated those politicians?’

    It will be interesting to watch Michelle Bachmann trying to get in their in a leadership role. It seems she is trying to get Mike Pence’s old leadership role because he is stepping down for a possible presidential run.

    Pass the popcorn – this is going to be one tea party where the Mad Hatter might just explode.

  6. indypendent

    I only wonder if this person were to be in a position of not being able to pay for his childrenโ€™s education if he would feel the same way


    wicked – I have learned that most of these people that spew this crap don’t have the capacity to think outside of themselves.

    And to try to shame them into thinking about others, they just don’t get it. They are all about ME-ME-ME.

    sad to say, I think that mantra was started by Reagan and reinforced by Jerry Falwell and his Immoral Majority. You know, the people who like to demonize everyone else because they are not as worthy as the Golden Idol ones.

  7. Keep those uneducated fools comin’ cause the tea party needs them.

    • indypendent

      Do you expect the Tea Party to keep going as strong?

      Sarah Palin has already made an ad about her leadership in the Tea Party. She is already getting that straw hat with the tea bags stapled to rim ready to throw into the presidential ring.

      But let’s not forget – there are already two tea parties.

      there is the original group that do have some good goals that I agree with – and I think alot of people can agree with them.

      Then there is the Tea Party Express group – that is the group that is funded by Koch and Dick Armey. That is the group Ms Sarah is in front of their podium alot.

      This is the group that I think we saw yesterday – the one promising investigations, hearings, Just Say No, bullying, and gridlock for the next two years.

      In my opinion (and my hope), I think the original tea partiers are going to wake up and realize they have been duped. the Tea Party Express was a bait and switch CON game – and that leopard will not change its spots.

      Then factor in – George W. Bush is now on the book circuit making people realize – once again – how his 8 year reign was the source of alot of our problems today.

      There was a reason GWB postponed his book release.

    • I don’t know, Indy. I wouldn’t have thought there were as many people who would support that nonsense as there are. I obviously overrated American’s critical thinking skills.

      And, unless they do something to attract younger followers they will (literally) die off. Doesn’t matter which faction we’re talking about — all factions seem to be comprised of mostly older white folks. I haven’t seen an old person get out alive yet, and white isn’t growing as quickly as minority races so I’d say they’ll need to attract different demographics to succeed.

  8. indypendent

    Keep those uneducated fools cominโ€™ cause the tea party needs them


    fnord – I just thought of something. maybe the plan of the Big Business GOP is to replace uneducated Americans with what is now our illegal immigrant cheap labor?

    They have already begun depressing the wages of most jobs but now they think they can deport all the illegals if and when Americans are uneducated and have no hope of anything better than to take whatever is offered to them?

    Like I said before – if this happens – who do they think is going to be paying for Gramps’ Viagra for the next tea party?

    The fastest growing population are seniors and they all get Medicare. Where is the money going to come from?

    Big Business is so busy being greedy, they cannot think beyond their bloated guts.

  9. indypendent

    Interesting article on the GOP’s Deep South Strategy that has worked so well for them. I wonder if the GOP realizes that the White Southern Democrats were the ones that came running to the elephant when Johnson dared to sign the Civil Rights Act? But they’re not a racist group – are they?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/white-southern-democrats-_n_779345.html

  10. indypendent

    Here is a puzzler: Republicans’ support ffrom gay voters about doubled in the midterm elections.

    This one has me scratching my head. I understand this group is upset with Obama but to actually vote for the group who is spewing their hatred for homosexuals just does not make sense to me.

    If you don’t want to vote for Obama, that’s fine. But then I would simply choose to not vote – not add fuel to the already GOP’s fire of hatred.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/gay-voters-republicans-doubled-2008_n_779111.html

  11. David B

    Gay Republican supporters have doubled in numbers?? What, from 15 to 30?

  12. indypendent

    According to that article, it went from 19% to 31% – go figure?

    I guess Forrest Gump was right – stupid is as stupid does?

    • indypendent

      But using that logic – these middle class Republicans who vote for the Big Business Bullies makes no sense either.

      I guess they won’t get the message until their own job has been outsourced by some company using our taxpayer money to do it.

  13. wicked

    I learned least night that my two best at-a-distance friends, one in a state at least as red as Kansas is now, the other in what was a blue state (Illinois), both decided not to vote this year. One said she felt it must have been as an overall protest, the other just couldn’t bring herself to walk into the building to vote, probably the first time since she turned 18.

    What surprises me is that I wasn’t disappointed in them. I understood both. I would really like to go back to the days when I didn’t know there was a difference between the parties and didn’t really care. Wish I could remember exactly when that was. LOL If I suddenly was struck with amnesia, the last thing I would do would be to have an interest in politics. It’s too damn depressing.

    • indypendent

      But this election cycle seemed to have all the makings of a three-ring-circus – didn’t it?

      We had some really crazy stuff going on – and the crazier things got, the more support those fools received.

      Remember the Rand paul supporter who stomped that woman’s head at the rally? Rand Paul’s approval rating went up the next day – WTF?

      When has it ever been acceptable to stomp on someone’s head?

    • wicked

      Just when you think it can’t get any worse, it does.

  14. indypendent

    Seriously, I suspect what happened in midterm election is what happens at every election – the flavor of the month group sweeps in and wins.

    This cycle it was the Tea Partiers – next cycle it will be someone else.

    After all, the American voters expect instant results and with no sacrifice on their part.

    When they don’t get their results – what happens? The new flavor of the month will appear on the scene posing as the rescuer of us all.

  15. Was it Zippy who recently admonished me for stating I might just quit voting? I think it was, and he suggested I write in Soupy Sales. I loved that thought! I can see it now — everyone who doesn’t vote, everyone who wants their vote to be seen as a protest writes in Soupy Sales. You know he would win! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Zippy’s point was that would have a better chance of actually registering as a protest, where staying home doesn’t — too many already do that for it to seem unique in any way or make any statement.

  16. wicked

    I don’t think the Tea Party sees themselves as Republicans. That would be the original TP, the plain one, no sugar or lemon, no Koch or Beck or whomever. They see themselves as some kind of new breed, fashioned after the originals who had a thing for Boston Harbor and wanted to become coffee drinkers, I guess.

    Check that quote from the comments area after the article on Brownback in the Eagle. They’re so far right, they’ve come full circle and are just to the left of right, making them mentally dangerous. They believe themselves to be the wealthy class (they aren’t), therefore they must be the ruling class (they aren’t), and they’re angry because deep down in side they know the truth.

    Sorry, this just became total gibberish, so I’m going to take a break.

    • indypendent

      The group you just described are the Tea Party Express group (in my opinion). These are the Brownback, Kobach, Pompeo supporters.

      What makes them even more dangerous is the fact they mix their religion in with their politics.

      Who can ever win an argument with these people when they accuse you of hating God and/or Jesus when you disagree with them?

      They are bullies and thugs – plain and simple. IMHO

      And when they start throwing their weight around – alot of people are going to start thinking sharron Angle might just be right – those clever Founding Fathers did put that 2nd amendment in there as a remedy .

      and then we will have utter chaos.

    • wicked

      Yes, and as soon as they pass whatever needed to keep only the wealthy educated, they’ll rewrite the Bible and put those of us who don’t adhere to it in prison camps. Or at least wish they could. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      I’m still trying to figure out which denomination. Good grief! The Christians can’t even agree within their own religion!

    • Do you mean rewrite the Constitution to more closely resemble the Bible? They aren’t planning to rewrite both, are they?

  17. indypendent

    fnord – all that ranting and raving about Obama’s trip to India from the Republicans also came from emails that have been making the usual round on the internet.

    When rush and his band of merry men and maidens don’t get the spread of misinformation out, they can always count on the infamous emails that get flagged as false by Snopes.

    But intelligent people seek out the truth – the other simply prefer to be spoonfed and regurgitate. Kinda like a baby who spits up after being fed.

    I have noticed though that all the ranting and raving is about the India portion of Obama’s trip. I wonder if these folks even know the purpose of Obama’s trip?

    He is to be at the G20 summit and he is traveling the world to try to open markets for american goods.

    I thought Republicans worshiped the love of money and those open markets to make all that money?

    I guess they don’t want it if it is brought to them by ‘that’ guy in the White House.

  18. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

    Actually, the title is misleading (as one will see upon visiting the link).

    • I actually knew all of those. I hope I don’t misuse them, but need to have it pointed out if/when I do. Please.

    • fnord, imho, we who are a bit more mature know all these. I am not assured that such knowledge is shared among those of lesser maturity in the same proportion as it is among us.

    • I have pet peeves when it comes to misusing English, and hear them too often.

      — that vase is broke

      — I seen that

      — I’m going to set down and rest

      I hope these don’t become acceptable, but it does seem that our language changes to include what was once, and should have remained, unacceptable.

    • Perhaps the French have it correct (as to language, at least). The corruption of written Standard American English is both frightening and a bit disheartening. The errors in professional correspondence are mounting, and it appears I may be one of the few still paying attention.

    • wicked

      “Where’s it at?”

      My personal fingernails-on-blackboard abhorence. I’ve threatened to choke my offspring to death when I hear it come out of their mouths, yet I hear it used all the time now on TV, even news shows!!!!

      I admit a weakness where affect/effect is concerned, but I’ve worked hard to remember which is which. Affect is verb=A is at the beginning of the alphabet, while V(erb) is toward the end. I still have to stop and think about it, though.

      I’ve recently noticed that my fingers are not typing what my brain is thinking. it’s vs. its and their vs. they’re, expecially. I KNOW the difference. It’s part of me, yet I’ve found myself typing the wrong one.

      I guess nobody–especially me–is perfect. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • wicked

      6176, the new batch of copy editors coming on scene leaves a lot to be desired, too. I rely on them to catch my goofs, but when I’m finding their goofs instead, well, it’s getting sadder and sadder.

      High schools can’t be blamed for the language problem, and definitely not colleges. It begins very, very early in grade school. I’d blame NCLB, but it began long, long before that came along.

      The reason teachers aren’t teaching it? They never learned it.

  19. David B

    And the stupid shall inherit the Earth…

  20. fnord (and wicked, too, I surmise), here’s another for your enjoyment: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon

    I feel if grammar was still taught in school, especially the public schools, we wouldn’t have this particular comic to enjoy. That would be fine with me (although I really laughed when reading this).

    • I don’t think there are adequate cow elbows to make all the bologna; they probably make some from cow knees.

    • wicked

      The thing about the cow…. It was written there as the cow who, but I’m fairly certain a cow is not a “who,” therefore it should be the cow that…. I’ll have to check that out at http://www.owl.english.purdue.edu. Good stuff there and easy to understand.

    • wicked

      I don’t use semicolons and hate it when used in more casual writing. That would include most mass market fiction, i.e. the junk I write. LOL

      I have a friend who is a retired English teacher. She writes Regency stories. (Regency is a period in England’s history.) She uses semicolons. But she uses them wrong! Because I don’t use them, I made it a point when judging some of her work in a contest to look it up. And that’s how I know how to do it, and still choose not to.

      I may not be perfect, but I strive to go in that direction, at least most of the time. Blog comments don’t always count. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  21. wicked

    Oh, 6176, if only educators would wake up and realize that writing correctly (spelling, punctuation, use of grammar) is important in being able to understand a person’s thoughts, we’d be much better off.

    I’ve probably told this story before, but my bff always went to parent/teacher conferences, as I did. Her youngest son was in the same class as my next to oldest daughter. (They hated each other in school! Are great friends now.) When she approached the English teacher (6th grade, I believe) about there being no corrections on her sons paper for spelling, grammar, etc., the teacher told her she didn’t check those or mark them on the papers. Why? Because it would squelch (my word) their creativity.

    Yeah, right. (sarcasm) Creativity isn’t going to help you much if you can’t write correctly. You can’t share your ideas with others, if they can’t understand what you’re trying to tell them.

    While I agree that math and science are hugely important, if there’s no language (English) basis, there’s no use for either. Those ideas and thoughts can’t be shared as they should be.

    • wicked

      Then there was the (brilliant? not!) dad who stood in front of me in line at conference and told the person in front of him that his son didn’t need to learn to spell. He had a computer with spellcheck! I nearly choked.

    • An illustrative anecdote, if I may. Our elder is quite proficient in the verbal as well as the quantitative areas. Her abilities, as a rising Sophomore in college, were so impressive that she was offered an opportunity (which she declined) to remain at the place she did a summer internship for an additional month to assist several different labs in preparing presentations (they were going to find the money somewhere had she agreed). One post doc did all she could to change the daughter’s mind, up to the day she left to come home for a brief vacation.

      She was told that these offers were based not only upon her abilities in the lab and analyzing the data, but also on her ability to communicate the results to an audience. This illustrates, I believe, the need to be proficient in both, with a nod to the verbal (oral and written) communication having great importance.

  22. wicked

    I think I have it figured out. The idea of having education only for those who can afford it will help those who have no communication skills. They won’t look nearly so stupid to people who have no education at all. It’s just a part of the dumbing down of America.

    • Yes, wicked, I agree.

      If anyone might wonder, I believe very strongly that basic education (academic education, to be precise), such as one could receive by the 10th grade “back in the day” is a component of strong national security, as important as a strong, well trained military. This would include, but not be limited to, the ability to communicate effectively orally and in writing and to think critically. I am most aware that many do not agree, including many in positions of power; I don’t care.

  23. wicked

    While I admit to being biased about language, I should probably make it clear that when in grade school, I enjoyed math and loved going to the chalkboard for long division races. At the age of 10, I seriously had my sights set on being a research scientist. I was given a good, not toy, microscope at Christmas, and my nurse-cousin and her doctor-husband gave me the “dyes” to add to things to see them better on the slide.

    A teacher in sixth grade changed everything. By seventh grade, I couldn’t understand “new math,” and even now when I read something as simple as a grade school science book, it’s gibberish to me. It’s a psychological thing, I know, and I managed to get through high school with barely passing grades in each subject (algebra and biology). If I’d stayed in college, I would’t have lasted. Nor would staying have done much good at that time. I was a theater major.

    I am biased when it comes to language, maybe a little bit because of my experience in sixth grade.

  24. MSNBC has suspended star anchor Keith Olbermann following the news that he had donated to three Democratic candidates this election cycle.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/keith-olbermann-suspended_n_779586.html

  25. What do you think? Will the tea party show patience with Republicans? They had no patience when it came to the fact that President Obama couldn’t completely fix the economy in under two years.

    ———————

    Now in Power, Some Conservatives Say ‘Take It Slow’ on Spending Cuts

    “Big government was built over decades; it can’t be dismantled in a year, especially when Democrats control the White House.” In fact, he adds, “if Republicans push too hard, we may blow our chances to actually reform entitlements and meaningfully roll back the size of government after the 2012 elections.”

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Now-in-Power-Some-Conservatives-Say-Take-It-Slow-on-Spending-Cuts-5658

  26. Campaign Cash: Tea Party Vows To Block Campaign Finance Reform

    …one of the nation’s largest Tea Party organizations, the Tea Party Patriots, is already coming out guns-a-blazing against any lame duck effort to crack down on secret corporate spending in elections.

    And with good cause. The Tea Party’s appeal, after all, is based on its populist, grassroots image. If anybody knew that secret right-wing millionaires were bankrolling the entire operation, the “movement” would lose its luster.

    http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010114404/campaign-cash-tea-party-vows-block-campaign-finance-reform

  27. itolduso

    “Iโ€™ve probably told this story before, but my bff always went to parent/teacher conferences, as I did. Her youngest son was in the same class as my next to oldest daughter. (They hated each other in school! Are great friends now.) When she approached the English teacher (6th grade, I believe) about there being no corrections on her sons paper for spelling, grammar, etc., the teacher told her she didnโ€™t check those or mark them on the papers. Why? Because it would squelch (my word) their creativity.

    THere was a strong movement among educators do do exactly that. In fact, during the inital days of the whole QPA thing, one set if instructions to th teachers included such things as:

    If you are offended by strong language, and your students use such language in your assigned essays, consider having someone else grade it

    If you find that in general the essay has poor grammar and spelling, it may be a cultural deficiency, and you should not mark them down for it. Pay more attention to the “voice” of the essay, not the technicals.

    If you find that an essay is off topic, grade it as if it were on topic, while simply questioning the choice of topics.

    There were more like that.

    I was given that instruction sheet by several teachers I knew. They were very concerned about the direction education was taking. I testified before the educational committee of the Senate. A good portion of my testimony was reading the instructions.

  28. itolduso

    “THere was a strong movement among educators do do exactly that”

    Perhaps, I am uncertain, I should have said….

    THere was a strong movement among education administrators or theorists to do exactly that

    • wicked

      If this had been a large, multi-cultural school, I might be able to understand. No, this was a small, rural school less than 30 minutes from Wichita. The only cultural differences were jocks, druggies, cowboys, etc.

      It was wrong, and to be honest, I suspect this teacher didn’t really know enough to teach it. I had a teacher, fresh out of college my senior year in high school who couldn’t spell. Even the jocks in the class could see that.

      Rather than give lower grades for poor spelling, grammar, punctuation, if they thought it would hurt the students, those teachers could at least mark them. They can’t learn if they aren’t taught.

  29. itolduso

    “If this had been a large, multi-cultural school, I might be able to understand”

    I understand your point. However, as I think you agree, and as I testified, such leniency does not provide for anything past high school, and certainly not in the labor market. As I told them, I work in the type of environment you profess to be preparing these young people for. Diverse, multicultural, far ranging. And yet, if I cannot communicate professionally, without profanity, if I cannot stay on subject, and design say, a wonderful toaster, when I am told be be designing a new wing for a new airplane, I will be fired. And rightfully so.

    • wicked

      I agree! Communication, both orally and written, as 6176 so eloquently stated, is terribly important.

    • wicked

      Many years ago I watched the Literacy Telethon on KAKE. A group of HR people from the major companies in town were talking about how the college graduates who applied for jobs lacked those communication skills to get their ideas across. The ideas were great, but…

      Functionally illiterate?

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      As some are aware, my undergraduate degree was in Accounting and Business Administration. One of my professors, who taught Auditing, was quite insistent that we students understand the importance of accuracy in written communication.

      To this end, he marked and graded (as mistakes) all grammatical errors and misspellings on exams, which, by the way (except for the final) were unannounced. As Auditing was a degree requirement, students could not avoid his class. I owe my grades in his classes (yes, I was a glutton for punishment and took both the undergraduate and graduate class) in part to my ability to spell.

      If more teachers, instructors, professors, etc., in all disciplines would do the same, we would be better for it.

      Plus there’s nothing quite like an unannounced hour exam to brighten the day.

  30. itolduso

    this was a small, rural school less than 30 minutes from Wichita

    which way?

  31. It’s where my hubby and wicked went to school — together! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  32. indypendent

    Then there was the (brilliant? not!) dad who stood in front of me in line at conference and told the person in front of him that his son didnโ€™t need to learn to spell. He had a computer with spellcheck! I nearly choked.


    wicked – I suspect this is the same person that is so proud when their son or daughter cannot make change without a cash register.

    When my kids were in elementary school, they attended a private Christian school. They were told to not bother working the math problems on paper, that they could use their calculators.

    What???

    And my kids are now 30 and 32 yrs old – so their elementary school days were long ago.

    Education has slipped in my opinion since then, but don’t we all have nice athletic fields for all those future million-dollar athletes to train?

    I say that because I think our priorities are wrong in this country and society. We value the one that can throw, kick or hit a ball rather than the one that excels in math, science or the arts.

    I feel sports needs to be included in our educational system but not as the first priority.

    • wicked

      I agree. The drama and band department scraped by, while basketball, football and track were fully funded. Why? Drama and band didn’t generate much income for the school.

      Amazing, because several years later a group of us (now adults) organized a community theater, and we always packed the house. With that money we helped buy new spotlights, an array of (expensive) theater make-up, and other needed items the school board couldn’t be bothered with paying for.

      I don’t ever remember a school drama production that didn’t fill the house.

      BTW, fnord, your hubby’s brother-in-law was in our first community theater production. He was also in one of my high school productions, where he played my father, Alfred P. Doolittle. (Those really were the good old days.)

    • Clay is still a ham! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      wicked, you have nailed it. Not only do interscholastic athletics make money, in a direct sense, they (especially football and basketball) make the voters, especially in smaller towns, happy and more kindly disposed towards bond issues.

      I played basketball in high school. This experience notwithstanding, competitive sports have no business being associated with schools; rather, we should look to how this is done in Europe (town teams).

    • wicked

      Yes, he is a ham, and he’s never grown up. With so many years having gone by, I tend to overlook the negatives and see more positives, especially where the past is concerned. Gotta find some joy somewhere. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Some days I want to UNgrow up. I’ve been grown up for such a very long time.

      Recently, without the details that I would gladly share with you friends but not on a public blog, Griffin and I have had to assume responsibilities for a grand daughter. We were kinda rollin’ along for a couple of weeks without giving up the rights of grandparents to have the joy but not the responsibility, then we discovered she isn’t doing well in Honors English. Her solution was to drop out of that hard class…

      She had hit a wall — the one where you don’t get good grades without study. She had no idea how to study, hadn’t ever been a part of her life.

      Well, we have done much studying. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      sigh

    • Speaking of that granddaughter. She has just arrived from the high school football game where she plays trombone in the marching band. She is cold; hot chocolate seems needed.

      See ya all. Have a great night!

    • I forgot to add that we’ve made great strides! Even her confidence is increasing. Now she rarely mentions how hard that class is and never mentions getting out of it. I don’t think she liked Grandma’s reaction to that suggestion…

    • wicked

      fnord, I know you and Griffin will adjust and be the very best (grand)parents around. Your granddaughter is lucky to have you both! Adjustments like that are difficult, but you both have the right attitude. I’ll be in the background cheering for all of you. ๐Ÿ™‚

  33. tosmarttobegop

    I had switched to MSNBC for Count-Down and it was not Oberman and the host mentioned he was filling in and that Oberman was in the news?

    That was odd but not that much and I could wait to find out what it is about.
    Then I loaded the browser and on the front page was about Oberman.

    How he had been suspended for making the maxim donations to three candidates in the last election and MSNBC had suspended him for that!

    Suddenly the question occurred to me… HAS MSNBC GONE FUCKING NUT OR IS IT THE WORLD?

    Fox donates millions to be disturbed among Republican candidates and that anโ€™t nothing!
    Still giving off that the entire channel is nothing but fair and balanced.
    OK play that off as it was really the tooth fairy.

    But Oberman donated in his own name not that of the network and he is suspended!

    • One of those candidates he gave the maximum amount to appeared on his show that same day, according to one account I read.

      This question will be asked by every critic — did Olbermann pay to get the answers he wanted to get? Besides, look at how every other talking head complains about the improprieties of Fox News. They are hypocritical if they put themselves in the same position they complain about.

      At minimum these words I read in op-ed piece are true: Olbermann gave his critics a very sharp stick.

  34. tosmarttobegop

    Oklahoma passed a State constitutional amendment that forbid Islamic law from being used in the State.
    Now no one had tried and there was not threat it ever was going to be.

    Mainly it was to just get the words โ€œMoslem, Islamic and the Koran put in the state constitution in a negative way.

    Of course this should not be a surprise, since the late 1800s it has been illegal to go Whaling in Tulsa Oklahoma. Seriously they passed a law stating so.

  35. 6176746f6c6c65

    Speaking of high schools, drama, productions and related things:

    Northeast Magnet is doing Hairspray November 11, 12 and 13, should anyone be interested. I tell the drama teacher that he started the stagecraft class “just in time” (last Fall, to be precise). I miss working on sets, but post stroke, I’d just be in the way.

    • This is only 2 1/2 minutes long and speaks to the subjects of education, economy, security…

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      Thanks, fnord. Very telling.

      At the risk of angering, I submit we, as a nation, must review our idea that everyone should go to college as a basis for our high school curricula. We also need to rethink just what “(L)et them be kids” really means.

    • wicked

      But we’ve known we’ve had problems for many years, yet all the things we’ve done to try to keep up have failed. Teachers, parents, students, we’re all in this together.

      U.S. kids don’t take education seriously. It’s just one more bummer thing they have to do when they’d rather be hanging out or whatever.

      I’ve said for years that college isn’t for everyone and trying to convince every student that it is will never work.

      Good stuff, fnord!

  36. With regard to the Olbermann suspension, this is interesting.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/11/05/burke-comcast-msnbc/

  37. A Senator elect speaks:

    Following his big win in Tuesday’s midterm elections, Senator-elect Rand Paul explained his economic philosophy in about 30 seconds during a CNN interview, claiming he wants to shield the wealthiest Americans from paying higher taxes — in the name of protecting the working class.

    “I would say that [Democrats] must be in favor of a second American depression, because if you raise taxes to that consequence, thatโ€™s what will happen in this country,” Paul told CNN host Wolf Blitzer.

    “What if they just raised taxes on the richest, those making more than 250,000 dollars a year?” Blitzer asked.

    “Well, the thing is, we’re all interconnected. There are no rich. There are no middle class. There are no poor,” Paul explained.

    more here if you can stomach the nonsense — http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/rand-paul-there-rich-people/

  38. tosmarttobegop

    What comes to mind is it was from a James Bond movie about Bond fighting a media mogul who was trying to start a war. One weapon the mogul was using was his media holdings in order to control and sway public opinion.

    But the line was โ€œHe would controls the news controls the world!โ€.

    I still have the opinion that the default of Air America was simply that money has the controlling factor in what is heard. In that if the listener ship is not large enough to support the cost the radio station fades and disappears. The money is in Conservative talk radio not liberal talk radio.

    But certainly one way to silence the opposing view is to buy it out and stop it.
    Perfectly legal and totally unethical.

    • indypendent

      conservative talk radio just makes me realize that old saying is true – a fool and his money are soon parted.

      Just like the way rush and other talk radio and conservatives have run this falst story about Obama’s trip to India costing $200 million a day.

      They even had Obama renting out about 300 more rooms at the Taj Mahal hotel than the hotel even has!

      And then the cherry on top of all this B.S. crap was the fact that some 37 war ships were being sent along with him for security. That was debunked by the Pentagon themselves.

      But yet these conservatives keep spreading this manure pile and their fools keep sending in their money to be covered with the stinkin’ b.s.

  39. indypendent

    BTW – fox News is owned by an Australian who is in partnership with a Muslim prince.

    Now that’s American pride for you. Why they those two are the perfect Yankee Doodle Dandies – don’t you think?