Wednesday, 11/3/10, Public Square

Speak when you are angry–and you will make the best speech you’ll ever regret.


Filed under The Public Square

106 responses to “Wednesday, 11/3/10, Public Square

  1. snoringdogstudio

    You are so right. And today, I’ll have to bite my tongue a lot!

  2. wicked

    If nothing else, the next two years will be interesting.

  3. Yes. I think it should prove interesting too.

    One night in history is in the past and there will be more Republicans in the U.S. House and Senate come January. That means a more evenly divided split in the responsibility of governing. We’ve been there before.

    What was the last major legislation a Republican-dominated Congress passed that you feel most proud of or think helped the American people the most?

    • wicked

      It’s extremely hard not to type a snarky comment. But since I don’t have a non-snarky answer ready, I’ll save regret for something more important.

    • I wasn’t invested in this election like I was two years ago so I don’t feel disappointed. The results were what we’ve been told they would be for weeks on end. I’m happy if there are fewer campaign ads. I don’t even watch television very much but was ready to pull my hair out. 😉

      I am very sad that Kansans elected Kobach. I had long ago accepted that Brownback would be governor, but still had some hope we wouldn’t elect Kobach.

      • wicked

        The outcome was pretty much what I’d expected, so I can’t be disappointed. Of course there’s always that little shred of hope lurking in the dark, but it continues, no matter what.

        Oh, and the only snarky comment I can come up with is to ask which denomination we’ll be bowing to in Kansas. 😉

      • Maybe everyone will fight over their own interpretations of their doctrines. Who suffers fools gladly? I expect all the various competitors to see theirs as the only true, therefore superior, belief. Each of them may be thinking the other is the fool.

      • wicked

        Oh, fnord, you make me giggle. 🙂

  4. itolduso

    Some of my candidates won, some of them lost. None of the results are the best thing that ever happened, nor are any of the results the worst thing that ever happened.
    The people of Kansas have spoken. Long live the people of Kansas.

    The elections in other parts of the country? Hurray I guess for some, boo I guess for others. They are not my representatives, and I did not follow any of the races closely. I do wish that boob Harry Reid would have lost. But the Republicans managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory there. Their issues and answers, even though it effects me, not for me to say

    • I join you in wishing Harry Reid had lost. He didn’t, and the tea party is responsible for his win. Before Sharron Angle came along he was a sitting duck.

      I can say between those two candidates I think the voters of Nevada made the correct choice.

      • wicked

        What fnord said.

      • itolduso

        Not really sure, Angle seemed to be kinda wacked out, but Reid isn;t much, if any better.

        Poor choice to have to make.

        But, the people have spoken. Time to move past the election cycle, and get into the work of governing cycle. Good luck with that, from all corners.

    • tosmarttobegop

      Yeah that race in Nevada when the polls showed Angle ahead would cause me to think WTF?

      There really is no such thing as a prefect candidate, shoot if I ever ran there would be a number of things that could be made into mountains out of what is really mole hills.

      I would hope not to say things like Angle did on tape and truly lack the amorality to then deny I ever said it.

      But then I remember, for those looking in from the outside to Kansas we have several issue and elected officials who are just as much out there!

      We have just elected a Governor who want to protect us from half humans/ half animals.

      I can sleep so much better at night knowing that I am safe from Mermaids and Pan.

      I guess we can only hope that these elected officials while throwing around their personal agenda happen to hit on the public ones.

    • prairie pond

      “I can sleep so much better at night knowing that I am safe from Mermaids and Pan.”


      Good one, TSTBGOP!

  5. Maybe we’ll see a family feud at the national level that is currently being seen in Alaska. If that’s what we see, I’m giving all the praise, the glory and the thanks to Sarah!

    • Ideological purity wins over electability at the primary level. I expect to see this again in the selection of a Republican 2012 presidential candidate.

  6. tosmarttobegop

    Fnord it is what I said of the Kansas Democratic party.
    The energy and drive to get out there and get involved is generally only held by the more extreme.
    The same goes for the Republicans, I keep hoping that once again the average Republicans will finally have enough and fight to change the party away from the extreme Conservatives.

    What it will take the Kansas Democrats and the over all Republicans is that the Moderates of both parties getting involved. Have the will, energy and drive to become more involved.
    And drag the extreme of their parties along screaming like a bratty little brother.

    • wicked

      tstb, could you be specific about the extremists in the Kansas Democratic party? While I’d be the first to say that the one negative I find with the party is the non-cohesiveness (voth state and federal-wise) as each seems to march to his/her own drummer as all good Dems do (ha ha), I haven’t noticed a lot of extremes here.

      Help me out.

      • tosmarttobegop

        For the most part the Democrats I have met and talked with in Kansas are level headed and pragmatic.
        The problem is that seldom do they have the time or the drive to actually influence the party behind the scenes.
        That leaves free space and extreme beliefs to fill in, the likes of Jay he has the free time and express himself to the extent that he loves the attention and the ability to influence where the state party can go to.
        This makes the Kansas Democratic party too far to the Left for a Right state.

        Like wise when it comes to the primary time they come out far more then the average Democrat.
        Also there is the prevailing doom and almost hopelessness with in the party that seldom does a candidate come forward that can win.

        Because the Democratic is so outnumbered, the way to win is to have someone that Moderate Republicans and the Independents can vote for. The Democratic can not depend on simply having the Democrats within Kansas know about the candidate.

        Take the Governor’s race, I heard almost nothing about the Democratic candidate.
        I know if given a chance to have an alterative to Brownback the elect would have been at least closer if not
        a Democratic win. Brownback is not that well liked within the Republican party in Kansas.
        Too close to being over the edge for many.

  7. wicked

    I need some help.

    The Healthcare Reform bill was passed, was it not?

    If a bill is passed it becomes a law, does it not?

    What must be done to repeal a Federal law?

    I ask because I’ve been reading the comments on an article about John Boehner saying the Republicans will repeal the healthcare bill. Apparently I slept through the stuff I need to know. As far as I can figure, the only thing at this point that can be done about the healthcare “thingy” (for lack of a better word) is for those R House members to vote not to fund it. (Remember, Pompeo has already stated that plan.) I’m beginning to think ‘John’ lives in some alternate world, because the Republicans only won majority in the House, right? Democrats still (barely) control the Senate, and the last time I checked, Obama is still President and holds veto power.

    Enough questions for now, although I do have more. 😉

    • prairie pond

      Wicked, I think all it takes to pass the law repealing health insurance reform is a majority vote in the House. It then goes to the Senate, which must pass it by a majority if the repukes are in charge and 60 votes if the dems are in charge. (WTF? That’s how it seems!)

      If it passes the Senate, it goes to reconciliation and then must be re-approved by the House and Senate.

      Hopefully, the Senate will put a stop to it.

      And I hope the democrats replace Harry with Chuck Schumer. We’d ALL be better off!

      • wicked

        Thanks, prairie pond!

        I keep having this vision of a rolled up piece of paper standing on the steps of the Capitol, singing about being a bill and wanting to be a law. Too bad I was nearly grown when School House Rock was born. I’ve always learned better with music. 😉

    • 6176746f6c6c65


      To repeal would take passage of a bill to do that, which requires House and Senate concurrence and no veto by the President.

      The non-funding is not repeal, but it has the same practical effect.

      Listening to NPR the other morning, I heard an interview with a Republican House member (whose reelection seemed assured) who indicated his thoughts that a total repeal was unlikely, and not especially favored by him (due to political realities among his constituents?). His thought was the GOP would pursue a selective repeal strategy, combined with non-funding, to achieve the goal. By implication, he indicated a number of Democrats might join in this approach.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        BTW, he was from Utah.

      • wicked

        Thanks, 6176. While I’m sorely disappointed in the healthcare law, I hate to see the whole thing dumped.

        I do find it intriguing that it’s the healthcare thing that the Rs have come out shouting about. Not a word about the economy. Not a whisper about jobs.

    • I agree — it takes the same process it took earlier this year. The House and Senate both pass bills, reconciliation, then both houses vote again if it changed from what they originally passed, president signs, becomes new law.

      Good luck with that.

      Boehner could barely talk last night and to me his incoherency had less to do with his tears than what he obviously had consumed in celebrating.

  8. indypendent

    I would like to see health care reform not repealed but changed. What we got was little more than health care insurance reform. I would rather see something done about the high prices of medical care.

    My theory is this – get medical care costs down to what these doctors are actually being paid by current insurance rates and then maybe more people could actually go see a doctor when they are sick.

    Then the insurance companies could get out of the routine health care business and only sell major medical policies that would cover the major health care costs like hospitalizations, cancer, etc.

    It makes absolutely no sense when doctors file a claim for $150 for an office visit and they actually get $50 (if they are lucky). Why not cut out the red tape and just charge the $50 from the beginning.

    But I’m sure health insurance companies would see a cut in their profits if something sensible came along.

    No, in this country of money is valued over lives, our current health care system will probably live on and only get bigger and more expensive.

    • Did everyone read the article in this morning’s paper about the money doctors make by adding pharmaceutical salesman to their list of duties? The article did tell of some ways the health-care reform bill sheds light into places it didn’t go in the past.

      • wicked

        “If Thisdrugwillprobablykillyou sounds like it might help YOU, check with your doctor!”

      • indypendent

        You cannot imagine the money that pharmaceutical salesmen spend just to get into the doctors’ office – they bring expensive lunches all the time.

        Our pharmacy even get lunches provided by these pharmaceutical salesmen – and we do not even prescribe medicine.

        And it is not just lunches – sometimes we get Sonic milk shakes, DQ blizzards, Connie’s Cookies – all kinds of nice things.

        But we have 50 employees – you do the math. Would you want to be paying for all that stuff? And if they are willing to pay for all that – just imagine how much profit they are making off us.

        Nobody in business gives you anything for free – they have an ulterior motive.

      • wicked

        indy, just think of who is actually paying for all those goodies.

  9. indypendent

    As I was watching the election results, I had to chuckle to myself. Now that the Tea Party favorites are in the position of power – what are they going to do with it?

    The next two years will be interesting to watch, to say the least.

    As I have stated before, I agree with the Tea Party goals but I do not agree with their choice of funding partners – ie Koch Bros and Dick Armey.

    that fact alone makes me suspicious as to exactly how much muscle are Tea Partiers going to actually be able to show?

    Because if you break down the Tea Party goals – it is basically what every politician of every stripe has promised for many, many years.

    Now is the time for them to either put up or shut up. And if they do not deliver, the voters will be kicking them to the curb in 2012. And since they are Republicans, that party will get the brunt of that boot.

    I’ve heard talk recently of some Democrats wanting to challenge Obama in the primary. That may be a good thing – both for the party and Obama. It will make both of them aware that they have been put on notice – so they need to change their ways.

    Ultimately, I do not expect much of anything to change. But I’ve always said that Americans do not like one party in total control and that is exactly what happened last night – that total control by Democrats was broken.

    Remember the total control of Republicans? We did not like it and it certainly did not help America one bit – now did it?

    • wicked

      indy, I have to think the Democrats only had total control because the Republicans, with their refusal to work together with the Dems, gave it to them. Whether this will work in their favor, now that they have a few more votes and one part of Congress, I guess we’ll see.

      • indypendent

        IMHO – the only reason the Democrats got total control was due to George w. Bush and his band of merry men who were so inept at everything but causing more war.

        We are still dealing with a world that hates America just because GWB and Dick Cheney stuck their NeoCon noses in somewhere that did not belong.

  10. As little as the current health-care reform includes it does get more beneficial for more people as time passes. If the Republicans plan to stop it their chances are best the sooner they do the stopping. When more and more people realize any benefit it will become something much more difficult to take away.

    I agree with the Republicans! Health-care reform needs to be improved! It needs to be more beneficial to the people and less to the insurance companies. Medicare for all would please me.

    • indypendent

      Ah, but that’s the rub. What Republicans have shown us in the past is only beneficial to those making money off the health insurance racket.

      The patients are on the bottom of their priority list – if they even thought of at all.

      So, when Tea Partiers claim they want to repeal and REPLACE Obamacare – we’ll see what they mean and what they will actually get accomplished.

      Like I said before – if they get the prices down, I would vote for a purple-spotted cow, as long as that cow got the job done.

  11. I’ve had to laugh right out loud at how many times I’ve heard the Republicans say something about not expecting ‘things’ to be fixed quickly since President Obama and the democrats had made such a mess it would take quite a long time for them to get it fixed.

    • indypendent

      One thing I did not hear much crowing about last night from Republicans was the fact about creating jobs.

      I heard all about cutting spending – which we do need to do – but not much about jobs.

      If the exit polls are correct – the #1 issue was jobs and the economy. Alot of people are not working and the prospect of finding a job is slim.

      If they get in there and only cut spending on social programs that are currently helping the unemployed, guess who is going to be the Frankenstein monster in 2012 to have the villagers following him with torches.

    • wicked

      It’s that alternate world thing. Republican time is different that Democratic time. The ratio is something like 4:1.

    • Boehner slurred a bunch of words about jobs in his acceptance speech (I say acceptance because he was tooting his horn about his upcoming victory as Speaker).

      I think it’s telling that many of them spoke about the efforts they will put into ensuring all bush tax cuts are extended. That increases the debt which breaks one of their few promises in the “Pledge.” It seems they intend to begin breaking their pledge before they even take office as a majority.

      • indypendent

        Ah, but Republicans don’t see the extension of Bush tax cuts to the wealthiest as raising the debt.

        They keep saying that, but I don’t believe them either.

        As for replacing Harry Reid – I suggest we replace John Boehner also. Both of these men need to go to the retirement home preferably.

  12. indypendent

    Did anyone else hear on MSNBC (Lawrence ?) about a possibility that one of these Tea Party senators could bring our country to the point of default on our debt in the coming months.

    I don’t remember Lawrence’s last name – but he was saying this after Rand Paul’s acceptance speech.

    Rand Paul was promising to get our debt problem fixed and that he would not vote for anything that raised the debt.

    Lawrence mentioned that the Senate will be having to raise the debt ceiling probably within the next few months. If Rand Paul sticks to his promise to not vote for anything that raised the debt – he could, as a senator, throw a monkey wrench in raising the debt ceiling legislation and that would mean our country would go into default and possibly throw off the entire world’s economy , as well.

    Then Rachel Maddow chimed in that it was not only Rand Paul that could do this – there are several other like-minded senators-elect TP’ers that could do the same thing.

    Are we going to see the first test in these Tea Partiers’ political lives when they get in there and find out firsthand that governing is nothing like making those election speeches with all their rantings and ravings – governing takes some real backbone and sense enough to know what to do.

    Interesting times – huh?

    • I’m thinking of a different word than interesting — disastrous?

    • wicked

      Interesting, yes. And just a tad scary.

      It’s times like these that I’m glad I’m old-er. I try not to think of how it may be for my kids when they’re my age or my grandkids when they’ve passed their 20s.

      • indypendent

        That thought is also on mind alot. My grandson was just born Oct 4th and to think of what he is going to have to live with frightens me. His sister is 4yrs old – she also will bear the brunt of all this political crap of today.

        With all the nutty talk about people getting their guns out and starting a revolution, etc. – it just makes me want to scream.

        What bothers me the most is how our sense of right and wrong seems to be topsy-turvy.

        How many prominent people have we seen get caught in adultery, lying, cheating, and even a senator known to be with prostitutes and wearing diapers in the Senate chamber and he still gets re-elected.

        And there is no shame anymore – these are the people that get a free pass from their supporters – no matter what.

        The world is NUTS.

      • wicked

        “How many prominent people have we seen get caught in adultery, lying, cheating, and even a senator known to be with prostitutes and wearing diapers in the Senate chamber and he still gets re-elected.”

        And yet the Republicans spent millions of taxpayer money to impeach a Presidential BJ.

        The rules aren’t the same for everyone.

        “With all the nutty talk about people getting their guns out and starting a revolution, etc.”

        That, along with detainment camps, has been going around at least since the Bush years. Only it was coming from liberals.

        What goes around, comes around…

    • wicked

      Rand Paul is one vote. Can his party reel him in a little? If not, they may be in for a surprise in 2012.

      These are the types of things that people need to be made aware of. You know, like those things the Democrats did that were good, but didn’t bother to make people aware of.

      • indypendent

        From what Lawrence said – any senator can hold up any piece of legislation for any reason.

        And I do seem to recall, several Republican senators are currently holding things up – I think Jim DeMint has quite a few things held up as we blog.

        Maybe it is time to change those Senate rules??

  13. indypendent

    As for changing the Senate rules – this is where Harry Reid needs to step in and show some muscle.

    I was somewhat surprised to learn that he was a former boxer. Somehow, that man just does not strike me as a boxer person – does he?

  14. indypendent

    Well, ladies, I need to go run some errands.

    As for the election results – it is what it is and we’ll deal with it.

    And if these Republicans/Tea Partiers can bring down the debt, create American jobs and fix the health care system – then I hope they can.

    But I’m not holding my breath for that miracle.

  15. itolduso

    Bring down the debt.

    Allow ALL the Bush tax cuts to expire

    For every extra dollar taken in, spending must be reduced by 50 cents at the least, preferably a dollar.

    • wicked

      Good luck with that. Neither party could bear to do it.

      • indypendent

        Neither party DARES to do it.

      • itolduso

        You are correct. Because every single constituent wants somebody else to be affected, not themselves. Raise taxes…on somebody else……Cut spending…..on somebody else’s program…stop exporting jobs, but let me buy my Honda.

        99% of the electorate are just full of it

    • indypendent

      I agree – but will the beloved Republicans allow the tax cuts to expire?

      And let’s put Medicare and defense spending on that cutting table.

      Ah, that’s the rub – huh?

    • wicked

      I don’t complain that much about taxes, although I do gripe now and then about waste, such as military waste. Other than that, I feel that as a citizens of this country, I must do my part. Some of those things that taxes pay for are things that affect me. Others aren’t.

      I guess I think that if my tax money might be helping someone who deserves being helped, it’s okay. I’m just not real delighted with making uber-rich people richer. (Please note the ‘uber.’)

  16. indypendent

    Oh – one last thought. Did anyone hear about Matt Lauer’s interview with GWB? The worst moment in Bush’s presidency, according to GWB, was when Kanye West called him a racist.

    If you want to read more – it was on Huffingtonpost blog yesterday.

    Seriously – that was the worst moment in Bush’s 8 year reign of terror?

    I guess he forgot about that war thingy.

  17. We’re all in agreement — if Republicans (or Martians, or Sasquatch….) can improve our economy and bring jobs back we are behind them, in support of them!

  18. We’re told by some this election went to Republicans because President Obama pushed health-care reform instead of concentrating on jobs. We’re also told by some the democrats under this president’s leadership tried to do too much too fast…

    Soooo, will the Republicans repeal the health care reform law or fix our economy? Will they do both? Will they fix our immigration problems and bring all our soldiers home… Will they tackle all our challenges? If they address it all, will it be attempting too much?

    The answers, of course, depend on whether or not the economy improves enough. If the economy improves enough a bunch of Americans will quit paying any attention and politicians of all ilks will go unnoticed. If the economy improves enough, even the debt won’t matter to some.

    • It pains me that the content of Mr. Moyers’ remarks will come as a surprise (or did come as a surprise) to a whole lot of folks. Fortunately, or unfortunately (perspective dependent), nothing he said surprised me.

      The one biggest obstacle, to my mind, in fighting back is the ill-conceived belief in the minds of many that “if I work really, really hard, I can be just like them someday”. Total BS, unfortunately; fed to us by spoon during our impressionable years, many grew to maturity thinking individual merit would make a difference, when reality dictates (or has, to me, in the decades I’ve paid attention) that one’s choice of parents makes more difference (although, if the younger plutocratic set has abilities, the family well being may be increased at an even greater rate).

      To my mind, a confiscatory estate and gift tax might be the only answer, breaking up the oligarchy before it has a chance to form. Combine that with a requirement that as each individual attains majority, s/he must perform four years of public service (military or otherwise) before s/he may enter college (including the service academies) or other post-secondary training or education, and must qualify for admission and pay for the additional education on their own (including acquiring student loans), thereby creating, to the extent practicable, a merit-based system for advancement. Never going to occur, but there lies my 2/100 of a dollar.

      Look out, I’m dangerous when given to too much pondering.

  19. Zippy

    We’ve seen the movie before, under Clinton, but there’s a difference.

    Here’s how it usually works: the majority steamrolls the minority in the House, then the Senate passes it.

    The Senate was called the “saucer” that cools legislation, but when Republicans held it 1995, a lot of awful legislation was signed into law by Clinton.

    The Bush tax cuts are set to expire and, even before the election, there were Democrats who couldn’t wait to kowtow to those who have actually done quite well in this economy–as evidenced by being among the top 3% of earners.

    This election was about more than fiery sound-bites, more even than re-writing history.

    It was about rewriting reality, but grade-school math is not easily fooled. The problem: in every step of the way, the Noise Machine will insist that creating deficits happens because of something Reid or Obama did, even as they try to remove a huge chunk of revenue from the tax base. The math simply doesn’t

    Will it work? China is standing by, and may decide at time to stop subsidizing our wealthy. This is not 1994, when the public debt, although tripled under Reagan, was only about 3.5 trillion dollars, and on the way down (thanks to modest change back towards the progressive taxation that was slashed-to-hell when Reagan took office).

    This could prove to be interesting indeed. And who could imagine the Teddy Roosevelt’s idea would be considered so radical? Well, Teddy, for one. Power has an uncomfortable way of reasserting itself, and no battle can every necessarily stay won.

    And as Thomas Jefferson noted, the price of liberty is an eternal vigilance.

  20. david B

    They don’t even think the Republican they elected will do the job!

    Most Voters Think House GOP Likely To Disappoint By 2012, Rasmussen Reports

  21. itolduso

    Yeah, no kidding. The Republicans are not in charge. The Democrats still are. THe Democrats still own whatever happens in the next two years, good or bad. They are still in charge… they have been for the last two years in in total control, and 4 years in charge of Congress. Something most Democrats like to least the elected representatives.

    • indypendent

      You may want to believe that Democrats are still in charge but guess what – the ball is in now your court in the House.

      So let’s not hear any whimpers when the voters turn on the Republicans they voted in 2010 if there is no evident change when 2012 rolls around.’

      sometimes it is not good to be the winner.

      Besides – if the Republicans try to do any kind of investigations or impeachment – just look for the tide to turn on them. The American voters are tired of this tit for tat political game.

  22. itolduso

    Personally, I don’ expect the Bass Turds to do anything anyway. They are all part of a system that rewards whomever gives out the most goodies, regardless of whether or not it can be paid for. The electorate, most the most part, doesn;t think any farther than



    And the congress critters go …..Don;t worry, be happy

    • Health-care reform is what President Obama ran on and one of the reasons many people voted for him.

      The Republicans made promises (ooops, this time they call it a ‘pledge’). I remember the years of bush the lesser when Republicans thought he was the best president ever — keepin’ em safe, down to earth, just like them — and never found a single fault. From 2001 to 2007 both houses of Congress were dominated by Republicans and they couldn’t even muster oversight let alone anything else. So you’re telling us this new Republican majority won’t be held to any standard? They won’t be expected to keep their pledge? And then the next time they ask for your vote they’ll get it? WOW!

  23. If you don’t cooperate toward compromise and you aren’t in the minority it will be noticed more readily. Americans will not be tolerant of “Hell NO” being all you’ve got. Governing is a responsibility each and every legislator asked for and should accept as their job.

    • Above is the description of Americans who actually do pay attention. The others will remain angry until the economy recovers enough for them to notice.

  24. indypendent

    There is a big difference between campaigning and governing.

    Compromise is required to govern and I do remember one of those puffed-up Republicans today saying something about never compromising?

    The message from the votere last night was not a vote in favor of the Republicans – it was a vote to divide the power and maybe – just maybe – get some results from the Congress and really get some of our problems resolved.

    But if these bloated, puffed-up GOPPERS want to dance gleefully while the leopard never changes its spots, then go ahead and do it.

    We’ll see exactly how far they get in the next election.

  25. It does no good to point out the faults of the past administration, the facts aren’t listened to. Now, today, is a fresh start. They’ll do such a better job with this second chance. All is well with the world if Republicans are in office — and that’s all that it takes because their constituency thinks government is bad and prefer their elected officials do nothing more than get elected.

  26. Here’s what The Wall Street Journal (owned by the idiot who owns Fox News) has t0 say —

    Republicans Won Bigger Than You Think.

    The GOP will have operational control of the Senate more often than Majority Leader Harry Reid will.

    Republicans are better off after their landslide victory in the midterm election than even they imagine. Democrats are worse off. This situation could change quickly, but chances are it won’t.

    For starters, Republicans will continue to have issues on their side. The election reaffirmed that America is a center-right country and that a sizeable majority is anxious about government spending and debt, President Obama’s health-care plan, and jobs. Those issues won’t go away now that Republicans control the House and are in a strong minority position in the Senate.

    Republicans have the ability to block Mr. Obama’s agenda, whatever it may be in 2011, but that’s not the point. What matters more is their ability to do positive things with help from Democratic senators wary of bucking the conservative mood in the country.

    Ten Democrats whose seats are up in 2012 come from right-leaning states or saw their states scoot to the right this week: Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Bill Nelson of Florida, Herb Kohl of Wisconsin, Kent Conrad of North Dakota, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Jim Webb of Virginia, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, Jon Tester of Montana, and Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico.

    It’s a good bet that some or all of them will be sympathetic to cutting spending, extending the Bush tax cuts, scaling back ObamaCare, and supporting other parts of the Republican agenda. With Democratic allies, Republicans will have operational control of the Senate more often than Majority Leader Harry Reid and Mr. Obama will.

    Congressional Republicans will also benefit from very low expectations. They’re not expected to achieve much. Yet by proposing a series of rescissions in this year’s budget and actual cuts in next year’s, Republicans can come up with the $100 billion in year-one reductions that they promised in their Pledge to America. And they can do it without ripping apart social programs or tackling entitlements.

    continue reading here.

  27. I know we weren’t speaking of nutcases, but now that I’ve brought them up, here is an article about one of the GOP’s bigger nutcases, Michele Bachmann.

    House GOP’s No 3. Stepping Down

    Indiana Republican Mike Pence, a conservative favorite who easily won re-election last night, will step down from his position on the House leadership team, where he was the Republican conference chairman. Pence, recruited by expected new Speaker John Boehner three years ago, alluded to a possible presidential run in 2012. Immediately following his announcement, Minnesota Republican Michele Bachmann announced her bid for his post—along with Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington is said to be weighing the idea as well. The conference chair position is the third most-powerful post for the minority party and the fourth for the majority party. Pence, who has held six terms in the House, won a presidential straw poll at a “values voter” summit in Washington in September.

  28. I think I may quit voting at all!

    “Solicitor general surprises justices in religious schools case
    The Obama administration says taxpayers have no right to sue if a state uses tax funds for parochial school tuitions. One advocate for separation of church and state calls the stance ‘inexplicable.'”,0,1748850.story

    • wicked

      I’ll repeat what I posted earlier. Which denomination? Only now it’s the whole country.

      Good luck.

    • Zippy

      There is something really strange going on with the Obama justice department.

      Even Anthony Kennedy knows this ain’t right.

      Once again, even an empty ballot–or Mickey Mouse–is preferably to not voting.

      Billions were spent to buy votes this year. Those who didn’t vote–mostly the young–sent an oblique message, once which might be taken to heart, but will likely be crushed under the wheels of future corporate noise.

      Think how much more effective it would have been if every last one of them wrote in “Pee-wee Herman.”

  29. tosmarttobegop

    “I don’t know how without any good-paying jobs here in the United States people are going to pay for their health care, put their children through school.”

    I will add one more and it is something that seem to have been overlooked or ignored.

    “I don’t know how without any good-paying jobs here in the United States people are going to pay for their health care, put their children through school. Or buy Whirlpool refrigerators ”.

    It is something that for the life of me I can not understand how it is that such a simple thing has been lost? Your company make it money and profit from the selling of goods.
    That means that your entire future and that of your company comes from the customers being able to buy your goods.

    By moving their jobs overseas you are cutting out the very thing that you need.
    You are limited your entire customer base and ending up stealing the money out of one of your pockets to simply put it in the other.

    True, by increasing the income of those workers in some foreign country they will be able to take some places held by the U.S. workers who now are earning far less or nothing at all.

    But that is wasteful, since you already had established customers that as the result of your moving the operation overseas. Are now unable to be customers for your goods what exactly have you gained by that move?

    • wicked

      I’ve thought the same, only not in quite the same amount of words. Remember, my job was outsourced to Canada back in 2002, so I was able to see this all more clearly. No, make that more personally.

      In time, there’ll be no jobs left, thanks to outsourcing, and no money left for the people to pay for the products and services this country was once well known for. Fast forward far enough, and those companies may see what they did to themselves. We had pride in the products we made and, yes, we expected to be paid good wages. Now those products are made by people who don’t care about what they’ve poorly made. I think it’s excellent retribution. Karma, if you will.

      • itolduso

        Outsourcing by corporations is no different than outsourcing by individuals. Instead of buying the cheaper imports, maybe they should have purchased the more expensive American made products.
        People, meet the enemy, and they are you.

        Karma, if you will.

      • wicked

        Good comeback, itolduso. But there’s a wrinkle in that. Even eight years ago, what was being made in America?

        Prior to that and when I was still married, our big purchase items were Fords and Chevys.

        When I walked into a store, I didn’t look at the tag to see where an item was made. When my kids were young, back-to-school clothing was purchased at J.C. Penney, mostly. That’s middle America. If those items were made overseas, I wasn’t aware of it. For those who have forgotten, Sam Walton made his Walmarts famous for selling “Made in America.” It was his greedy children who ditched that idea. I didn’t ask for that change.

        Blame the people all you want, but times were prosperous enough during a Democratic President’s two terms that people weren’t pinching pennies until they squealed.

  30. itolduso


    I wasn’t talking politics at all, but economic reality. The reality is American manufacturers were and are being squeezed out of the market by imports, in nearly ever industry. The consumer did not give a crap where it came from, as long as it was cheaper. The American manufacturer could not compete with the cheap labor, the non existant environmental and labor protection laws of other countries, etc and etc and etc. They moved their manufacturing overseas. Because the consumer simply did not care. So when the jobs left overseas, as long as it didn’t effect the consumer, the consumer could care less, as long as he could buy cheaper stuff, so he could buy more stuff.
    Now, it is hard to find many products made in the US. Just as citizens found it cheaper to purchase foreign made goods, so do manufacturers, and that includes labor.
    I seek out American made goods when I can. I will pay a premium of 20-25% if I have to to buy Ameican made goods. Try it yourself. Be part of the solution.

    ANother solution which I have promoted for at least 20 years…every import has a tarriff equal to the cost for an American made manufacturer to comply with American labor, environmental, and any other type of federal regulation.

    • wicked

      Why has the income of CEOs and the like increased so drastically, while that of the workers has remained fairly stagnant? IOW, the wealth gap.

      • itolduso

        Good question. I guess they can;t outsource management.

        However, management wages, however ridiculous, because of the small amount receiving them, for most manufacturing companies, are a small percentage of wages paid in comparison to the total labor costs.

  31. As the income of CEOs increased the wages of the workers decreased. Buying as inexpensively as possible isn’t a choice when you simply can’t stretch a dollar far enough to cover all the necessities.

    • wicked

      Amen, fnord.

      My guess would be that itolduso’s mortgage payment is about the same as my average monthly income, after taxes. I’m not complaining, just showing an example of reality.

      • itolduso

        I would hope not, and I don;t know what you are trying to imply. My mortgage payment, including tax and insurance, is right at $635 per month. So you don;t have to guess.

      • itolduso

        and the newest car I own is a 1996 Chevy.

      • wicked

        Not a bad payment, itolduso. Higher than my rent, but not by a whole lot. 🙂

        My car? 1990 LOL But it runs!! And gas mileage isn’t all that bad.

        I don’t buy a lot of big $$ items. When my old fridge went out this summer–bought used from my mother 8+ years ago–I found an almost new, very nice, side-by-side fridge on craigslist for $80. I was not pleased to see that it had been assembled in Mexico. 😦 I buy my computers and printers new, because they’re business items. Other than that? Nada.

    • The necessities have even changed.

    • itolduso

      Same with companies. And the whole “pay of the ceos” thing is just an attempt by some leaders of the opposition to deflect real problems.

      Not that I think the ceos are worth that much, they aren;t. However, much of that was also driven by the fact that much of many ceos income comes from stock options, which was driven by people demanding ceos acttual wage be somehow tied to the how the stock performs. In some cases wages were cut drastically, and put in the form of stock options. Most things have unintended consequences.

      Again, I don;t think ceos for the most part are worth what they get, but neither do I think professional ballplayers, tv actors, or movie stars are worth what they get.

      the simple fact is, they get high money….because they can

  32. Is it too soon to ask Mr. Boehner where are the jobs? Do I have to wait until he actually moves from just a Representative to Speaker? Is there something magic that will happen when he is no longer just representing?

    • itolduso

      ask away. Get the same answer the current COngress gives, after four years in power

    • He has been part of that current Congress the whole time frame you mention.

      • itolduso

        and in the minority. The Democrats owned the House, The Senate, and the White House. Where are the jobs? Same question, same answer……they are on the way. The real answer is, many will never come back. Period.

      • When any person — and I mean ALL OF THEM — can only bring good ideas or solutions to the table when they are in the majority we should take note, we should realize where America and Americans fall in the list of priorities.

  33. Outside groups have spent almost $300 million to influence elections this cycle, more than all the midterm elections combined since 1990, according to The Center for Responsive Politics —

  34. Now that Republicans share the responsibility of governing I expect to see their ideas, plans and solutions. I don’t mean talking points and outlines, I mean alternative plans, ideas and solutions.

    Then I will watch to see whether the art of compromise comes back into vogue. But first you have to have those ideas, plans and solutions from everyone representing all the varied philosophies.

    • Their constituency may only require getting elected, but I require more. I don’t think I’m alone in this, and obstructionism won’t hack it with me. It’s the end of saying “Hell NO” being a strategy.

    • itolduso

      Now that Republicans share the responsibility of governing I expect to see their ideas, plans and solutions

      As do I , if they don’t put up ideas, plans and solutions, they will be replaced in two years.

      Let all the Bush tax cuts expire, decrease spending by matching the increased income50 cents on the dollar

  35. wicked

    I just wish they’d all work together for the good of the “common man.” I’m not holding my breath. 🙂