Wednesday, 10/27/10, Public Square

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30 Comments

Filed under The Public Square

30 responses to “Wednesday, 10/27/10, Public Square

  1. The image makes a great point; faith is the opposite of science (even without the snarky part about avoiding all evidence to the contrary). There is nothing bad about faith being the opposite of science. I happen to be one of those strange people that believes that faith and science can actually coexist.

    The problem today is that a vocal group of insecure people want us all to choose–either faith or science. And some of them want to replace science with faith.

    There is a need for both in the world. Replacing science with faith is like replacing food with water. Water is good and necessary-without out it we would die. There are many kinds of food and, though some foods might be better than others,
    everyone gets to choose what food works best for them and how much of it to eat. If you do away with food completely, you will starve.

    Society needs faith-faith in ourselves if not faith in a God. Faith in humanity, faith in society and, yes, even faith in science. But we also need science, as it has helped us to evolve and understand the world around us so that we can survive as a species. Neither faith nor science alone will answer the woes of the world; but they are not mutually exclusive and to say that we must choose one or the other is short-sighted, to say the least.

    And religion is a totally different matter entirely and does not belong anywhere in the discussion. What those people who want to irradicate science in favor of religion lack completely is faith.

  2. tosmarttobegop

    One problem is when it is what can you believe in? If the world becomes where there is nothing you can believe in. When there is nothing that you can count on without a question.
    Then there is no place safe nothing that is solid and safe to accept.

    The mind comes to swirl and never has a moment of peace and assurance.
    From when the common held belief was that the world was flat, that was an assurance that there was something to accept as a absolute and dependable. It was when the growing acceptance of the idea that it was actually round that cause a uproar. Liken to the same reaction as if suddenly you were learning your parents were not your parents.

  3. tosmarttobegop

    Here is an example of the classic saying about it takes money to make money:
    I have became aware of a business opportunity that would be starting my own small business.

    The Demographics are there, a service that focuses on smaller businesses and individuals with a limited numbers of items needed and are too small for the larger companies that generally do this service.
    There is only one owner/ operator in this general area that offers the service and they do it part time.

    The business offer is for the most part “self contained “ having all the trials and tribulations of starting a business worked out and an established solution provided by the parent company.
    Who’s goal is that of simply helping those wanting to have their own business doing this service.
    To get started and to be able to use the buying power and ability of their numbers to get the best prices for supplies.

    NOW here is where the money comes in!

    There are three levels of operations and equipment ranging from the smallest and focused solely on offering a limited service. To the largest where the services are a broad scope of different services and more ability to make money.

    And of course the out lay is greater for starting up as to which level you want to do.
    Each level is a total package, equipment, supplies, company training and support for your business.
    All you have to do is find a customer base, which with only one other focusing on this demographic you could say it is wide open.

    BUT, the cheapest is about fourteen thousand to start.
    Your success depends solely on your own drive and willingness to go for the customer waiting for this service. It is not a franchises operations, you own your own business free and clear they simply are your supplier and provide the business knowledge you would need to operate.

    There is more then enough opportunity to make that money back and more within less then a year.
    Operating from your home and wandering about simply making known you are offering this service.
    The market is there, but the cost of start-up is so great that it takes your breath away!

    • Yes, a classic example. That’s why, like it or not, the “haves” have the upper hand. Bluntly, it’s easier to find someone or many someones to do the work needed than it is to find the capital needed to start the business where the work will be done.

    • tstb, guess you didn’t choose your parents carefully enough?

      It does, indeed, take money to make money. Today even getting a loan has been made more difficult — almost to the point that only those who either don’t want or don’t need loans are able to qualify. Need money? Well, then you don’t qualify for a loan!

      • To some degree, fnord, this is a return to the historical norm. While we (I) may not like it, easy availability of credit did play a part in the recent economic meltdown. If there weren’t so many mortgages, e.g., many of which would not have been made under more traditional lending criteria, there would have been less temptation to “reduce risk” by packaging them in what we call “derivatives”, and the underlying collateral for these dubious instruments would have been more sound. I think it is fair to blame greed on many fronts for all this, including, but certainly not limited to, the greed of the borrowers.

        And, let us not forget the emphasis of the prior administration on the “ownership economy”, which played a role. Sorry; not everyone can fiscally successfully own a home, and to promote the same is (was) totally irresponsible.

      • tosmarttobegop

        LOL I often brought that up when winter came, why oh why when they were moving South did they ever stop in Wichita? Why could they not have continued down into Texas and perhaps all the way to Southern Texas where there were the white beaches and warm clear waters?

        Oh in deed, why couldn’t I have been born rich instead of good looking? What? I am not?
        OK, now I wonder why I ever quit drinking now!

      • “If there weren’t so many mortgages, e.g., many of which would not have been made under more traditional lending criteria, there would have been less temptation to “reduce risk” by packaging them in what we call “derivatives”, and the underlying collateral for these dubious instruments would have been more sound. I think it is fair to blame greed on many fronts for all this, including, but certainly not limited to, the greed of the borrowers.”

        I will agree, in part, that there was some greed and some ignorance on the part of some of the borrowers. But, there is also the fact that the brokers (per Congressional testimony) were steering otherwise qualified homeowners into risky loans because the market for risky loans is where the money was being made. ALSO, let us not forget that the credit reporting agencies, who should be called by some other name because reporting is the least of what they do (and they don’t even do that with accuracy), have all rewritten their algorithms in order to keep the credit scores low on as many of us as possible, thereby costing us all higher interest and making money for the lenders that pay them. It is A HUGE mistake on the part of the citizens of this country that we trust these thieves to decide on our creditworthiness. It’s just another way that the system is stacked against the working man.

        And the citizenry is silent.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        As I said, Paula, greed on all fronts. Why were so many borrowers so voluntarily steered? Greed, in part; a promise of a lower interest rate is one example; a bigger, fancier house “for the same monthly payment” another. Add to this a cynical group of manipulators whose own greed (higher fees, more interest, etc.) was served by the process; shareholders demanding a higher dividend to realize upon an inflated stock price; the political benefits of an artificially low interest rate; and, lest we forget, the ignorance of the fact that real estate values don’t always increase, resulting in viewing the residence as an investment as opposed to shelter, and darned near everyone was in it “for the money”.

        I’m not assessing all the blame on the borrowers; far from it. However, without their willingness to be steered, for reasons including those cited above, and the apparent inability to say “no”, at least some of the disaster would not have occurred.

    • itolduso

      Fourteen thousand for a business that will pay for itself in less than a year? That’s less than the price of many used cars. How low should it be?

      Considering you are getting “a total package, equipment, supplies, company training and support for your business”

      I am not snarking or taking a pot shot. Serious question.

      As for financing, many people have gone into business by refinancing their cars, their homes, their whatever they had in order to get a start if they haven’t saved enough, or are not creditworthy enough, or don’t have relatives with deep pockets.

      • tosmarttobegop

        I am considering those options, this is something that I do see as do-able and will have a real potential at successes. Though for years I have realized I would be better off working for myself.
        It has always been so what?

        In a good economy there are many things that could be done or services to offer.
        For awhile I wanted to open a Guitar shop here in my town, in good times such a business would do good if ran in a thinking manner. Which having studied the field and trends of such an operation I think I could make a go of.

        But that is in a good economy where people will have the extra money to be spending on something that is not a necessary.

        So to put up a part of “my Life” would not be a wise thing to do for such a business.
        But this is something that provides a service that is done even in bad times.
        It is printing things like tee-shirts and mainly for schools, there are many in this area where the numbers of shirt would be low enough that a larger printer would not be interested since they will not be printing enough shirts to justify the cost to them.

        It is printing names and slogans on items such as souvenirs and trinkets to give away or sell.
        One idea is that every year there is a small celebration called the Grass hopper festival.
        Printing up shirts and little items to sell as a souvenir could turn some money.

        There is a foreseeable market for this and one that is not over loaded with people targeting the this market.
        This could be worth putting up the house over, or at least going out to find some source of investment.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        Be careful, tstb; there is a competitor about which you may not know. It is what used to be known as the Kansas State Industrial Reformatory in Hutchinson. The NEMHS Booster Club has “found” this, and the prices charged for (relatively) small runs are remarkably low. I don’t know too much more than that, but to be forewarned is to be forearmed (or something like that). 🙂

  4. wicked

    Imagine what the world would be without science.

    Dark Ages, anyone?

    • Exactly, wicked; well, at least insofar as Europe is under discussion. The “Dark Ages” were not so big a deal in China, and, IIRC, what is now known as the Middle East.

    • Is that about where some would like to take Kansas?

      Brownback should be an interesting governor…

    • “For science doesn’t merely provide a way of expanding knowledge of the world. It doesn’t just provide answers to pressing questions; it changes the conversation itself. Science—and the broader way of thinking that comes with it—trains its adherents and practitioners to relish the very act of questioning for its own sake, of figuring out what’s true and false, of determining what works and what fails.”

      http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/dr._president/

      • Science “trains its adherents and practitioners to relish the very act of questioning for its own sake, of figuring out what’s true and false, of determining what works and what fails.”

        You’ve pointed out the thing that makes science dangerous to the insecure people that think everything is black and white.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        Yes, fnord, this is what has always attracted me to things science, and the attraction continues. I’ve adopted this way of thought, as much as I can, into my personal routine, which in certain circumstances has made me a bit of a pariah.

  5. tosmarttobegop

    Life was so much simplier when there was not so much to know!

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      Yes, it was; but not quite as interesting. My problem is that I want to know as much as I can about everything, happily ignoring the fact that the more I learn, the more I realize that there is to even more to know, and the fraction of the total knowledge base I “know” keeps shrinking.

  6. tosmarttobegop

    Campaigns and elections can be and often are like holding a mirror up to the collective of the people.
    Sometimes and often it is that we are standing naked in front of it and do not truly like the reflection.
    Blindly and unreasonable angry often disappointed with what there is that we see.

    We damn the image, but in the end simply put something on over it and nothing changes.
    The Republican damn the image for being blotted and flabby.
    The Democratic damns it for being unhealthy and selfish.

    But nothing is changed and soon the image is forgotten till the next campaigning and elections once again puts that mirror in front of us.

  7. FYI —

    “The lines between news, politics, and entertainment get blurrier tonight when President Obama visits with Jon Stewart of The Daily Show.

    Obama and aides see the amusing “fake news” program as another avenue to young voters.

    It doesn’t hurt that Stewart is hosting a “Rally to Restore Sanity” in Washington, D.C., on Saturday, something of a counter-point to the event that conservative Fox News talk show host Glenn Beck held on the Mall in August.”

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/10/obama-stewart-politics-and-entertainment/1

    • wicked

      Twitterers are tweeting about the rally like crazy. I finally had to dump it, there were so many.

      Wish we could go. 😦

    • As I said before, I dislike crowds! Wish I could be in this one. 😉 I’ll be watching to see what the ‘news’ says.

  8. indypendent

    I just came home from advance voting. I have faith my vote will be counted correctly.

    Am I expecting too much?

    • tosmarttobegop

      almost all the political calls I have gotten was not for a candidate it was to convince me to vote early.

      And all have been from the Republican party.

  9. itolduso

    Good luck to you tsb…..

  10. wicked

    I do wish the phone calls would stop. I hung up on the one today. Not that anyone cares, since it was pre-recorded and not someone I intend to vote for. The one that had me baffled left a voicemail. It was from Planned Parenthood…for someone I DO intend to vote for.

    But really, these phone calls are a waste of their time and mine. They won’t change my mind, and we’ll probably vote on Saturday. We sometimes make it a family affair. 🙂