Sunday, 10/24/10, Public Square

Children are all foreigners.
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

34 Comments

Filed under The Public Square

34 responses to “Sunday, 10/24/10, Public Square

  1. indypendent

    Since I registered as a Republican for the sole purpose of voting against Todd Tiarht, I have been bombarded with phone calls and junk mail.

    A few days ago I received a phone call from some woman working in Pompeo’s office. I let the call go to voicemail because I did not recognize the number and assumed it was something political.

    This woman went on and on as to how great and wonderful Pompeo is and one of the reasons I should vote for Pompeo is because he was in the military and was at the Berlin Wall – so he knows borders.

    WTF?

    So now we are to follow the footsteps of East Germany and put up our own version of the Berlin Wall?

    After laughing for a moment to think that this loyal American patriotic Tea Party candidate is advocating for America to emulate a country that most find abhorrent, I remembered a news story not so long ago.

    It seems Joe Miller – the Tea Party candidate from Alaska – said something eerily similar to this same idea within the last few weeks.

    If I remember correctly, Joe Miller used the Berlin Wall as an example of how East Germany did the right thing about their borders and that we could learn a lesson from them.

    I just don’t understand how a political party that bashes Obama as a socialist bent on destroying America can advocate putting up our own Berlin Wall and say that with a straight face.

    Do these people even know their history – I mean the real facts?

    • itolduso

      Easy. THe Berlin wall was built to keep the residents of East Germany in, any southern boder wall would be built to keep nonresidents out.

      Those are the real facts.

      • wicked

        So by adding a southern border wall, we’d be keeping IN the millions of illegals who might actually want to return home someday? Seems that would be the real analogy to the Berlin Wall, wouldn’t it?

        As indy said, it might be wise for people to study history before comparing one thing with another.

        It also might be wise to ask East Berliners what they thought of that wall. If you have to put up a wall to keep people inside, there may be a problem somewhere.

        Speaking of walls, Jews and others were herded into the Warsaw Ghetto, a walled-off area of the city, during WWII.

        So we have E-W Berlin, brought to you by the “Commies,” and the Warsaw Ghetto, brought to you by the Nazis. And members of the Republican party are commending those things by wanting to try something similar? Oh, but in a different way.

    • wicked

      Here’s a question. If a southern wall were to be erected, would that mean that U.S. companies couldn’t take their businesses across it?

      Or have the Rs not thought of that?

      Talk about conflicted. We don’t want “those people” coming here, but it’s all right for “our people” to outsource jobs, leaving our citizens without. Makes perfect sense, huh?

  2. Freedomwriter

    After McCain added Palin as his V.P. candidate during our last presidential election, it appears this somehow empowered folks who dreamed big, but lacked substance in the political arena.

    Somebody needs to politely whisper in their ear and let them know that they could serve their country better, by taking a political history course at their local college.

  3. tosmarttobegop

    Rove was on Face the Nation and he was confronted with something Limbaugh said about Rove does not like the Tea party. Rove said that Limbaugh had taken it out of context.

    That Rove has said during an interview with a Germany magazine, that the Tea party was unsophisticated when it came to the way that Washington works. And that they would be ineffective when it comes to control and change Politics.

    And that they are willfully unsophisticated because they do not like the way Washington and do not want to know how it works.

    When asked if he was accusing Limbaugh of taking things out of context?
    Rove tried to dress it up by saying that Rush is a friend of his and may have not read the entire article.

  4. Just one more sign of the GOP amnesia! When Obama was campaigning they were all angry about his so-called lack of experience. Now the trait they most appreciate is lack of experience. They may be suffering more than just amnesia! Mass dementia?

    • wicked

      Maybe Wasilla will get lucky and elect Levi as the new mayor. He was one of Bill’s guests on Real Time last night, and it’s clear he knows when to shut up and listen and when (and how) to comment. Smarter than this former-future-mother-in-law.

  5. When I saw the Emerson quote in the header — Children are all foreigners, I was thinking about how we teach them to become someone. We influence, we lead, guide, we offer opportunities and experiences. As they get older they are to a certain extent what we both directed them to and allowed them to experience. Now if an American infant were raised by ______ (fill in the blank) would that child become someone we fear because we don’t understand? Would that child become someone outside our knowledge and understanding? Now they might be ‘different’ and would we be curious or apprehensive?

  6. indypendent

    itolduso posted:
    Easy. THe Berlin wall was built to keep the residents of East Germany in, any southern boder wall would be built to keep nonresidents out.

    Those are the real facts

    —-
    How interesting that only the southern border wall was mentioned. that tells me all I need to know about the motivation of any Republican who seriously advocates following the footsteps of East Germany and building a wall.

    don’t look now Republicans – but we would not need to build a wall if employers were held accountable for hiring illegals.

    But I still remember the argument these same Republicans were making just a few short years ago about how we need the immigrants to keep the prices of our food low.

    After all, who wants to pay $10 for a hamburger.

    Does anyone else remember that argument?

  7. itolduso

    don’t look now Republicans – but we would not need to build a wall if employers were held accountable for hiring illegals.

    Yeah, no kidding. something I’ve advocated for years. So put your little box away. Not all of anything, including Republicans, fit in the same box.

    • indypendent

      if so, thenf why do Republicans always protect the corporations hiring illegals?

      And what about the argument of the $10 hamburger?

      That was a Republican idea – do some research.

      And both parties let corporations get away with hiring illegals. But I’ve not heard the Democrats defend the need for it due to some $10 hamburger.

      • itolduso

        I haven’t found any writings by Republicans advocating hiring illegals to keep from having $10 hamburgers. I would be more than happy to read them if you have a link.

        And if a hamburger has to cost $10 in order to not hire illegals (which I don;t believe) then fine, they will cost $10.

        The defining line on something like hamburgers….. Regardless of what anybody thinks, it is the customer who decides the ultimate price, above which they will not pay.

        Hence all the big xxxx for 5 dollars. The marketers know that 5 bucks is a philosphical break point in the minds of consumers. Sales have been down due to the economy, less people eating out. In order to pay their overhead, they have shaved margins to try and increase sales.

  8. itolduso

    How interesting that only the southern border wall was mentioned. that tells me all I need to know about the motivation of any Republican who seriously advocates following the footsteps of East Germany and building a wall

    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

    It is the only “wall” authorized by Congress. And the only one under discussion by anyone. Again, your attempt to paint people with the color of paint of your choosing, fails.


    It also might be wise to ask East Berliners what they thought of that wall. If you have to put up a wall to keep people inside, there may be a problem somewhere”

    Ya think? Wow. Who woulda guessed. A marvelous statement of the obvious. I don’t know of anyone advocating a wall or fence to keep people in.

  9. itolduso

    And for the record, I really don;t give a crap about immigrants one way or the other, as long as they get here legally. Legal immigrants are welcome, in my book. Illegal immigrants are not. I don;t care where they came from. Please feel free to prove otherwise.

  10. wicked

    Chill, itolduso. So much anger is bad for your health. 🙂

    • indypendent

      and for the record, I only commented on the fact that a Tea Party Republican Candidate obviously must feel that the Berlin Wall is a good thing.

      My original comment was – why is a Republican who professes to hate Socialists so much – advocate for our country to follow the footsteps of a Socialist government?

      How telling that my original comment was never responded to – how typical.

      • indypendent

        Sorry wicked – I didn’t mean to respond to your comment. I meant this as a general comment.

      • wicked

        indy, comments to comments to comments do get confusing. 🙂

        And I was only sharing my thoughts, confusing as they are, so no harm, no foul on either of our parts.

      • itolduso

        Again, the answer is….

        The socialist government wall was to keep their own citizens in, not to keep noncitizens out, which is what the Republican candidate is endorsing.

        In other words, they are not the same.

  11. indypendent

    As for anger – I hear tell that Jesus can bring peace to one’s soul.

  12. The Bible says, “The peace of God which surpasses all comprehension shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus” (Phil. 4:7).

    The peace of God seems to me to be something we shouldn’t drag down to the level of politics.

    I look at the countries that are theocracies and I see nothing worth emulating. I am glad our country started out knowing the separation of church and state was best. When I hear anyone want to combine the two I am sad.

  13. itolduso

    ya’all have a great evening, ya hear!!

  14. prairie pond

    “The socialist government wall was to keep their own citizens in, not to keep noncitizens out”

    Huh.

    I guess that’s why travel from the west TO East Germany was restricted. People from the U.S. were not even allowed to visit relatives there, or send them packages.

    Good grief. The google is your friend….

  15. prairie pond

    Here ya go. From Wiki:

    “After the Wall was built, East Germany wanted to control Western Allied patrols upon entering or leaving East Berlin, a practice that the Western Allies regarded as unacceptable.”

    There’s more about travel restrictions INTO and OUT OF East Berlin and East Germany.

    That wall worked not only to keep their folks in, but to keep other folks out.

  16. itolduso

    You win. The reason for the Berlin wall was to keep westerners out. Everybody knows that. East Berliners were free to come and go as they please.

    Whatever.

  17. prairie pond

    “There’s more about travel restrictions INTO and OUT OF East Berlin and East Germany.”

    Is there some part of travel restrictions both directions that you don’t understand?

    Typical con. When proven wrong, there’s pouting and sarcasm.

    Whatever.

    • itolduso

      HAHAHAHAHAHA!

      Read a little history. From WIKi (if you want to use that source)

      “However, in practice, the Wall served to prevent the massive emigration and defection that marked Germany and the communist Eastern Bloc during the post-World War II period.”

      “Before the Wall’s erection, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions and defected from the GDR, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin, from where they could then travel to West Germany and other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989, the wall prevented almost all such emigration.[3] During this period, around 5,000 people attempted to escape over the wall, with estimates of the resulting death toll varying between 100 and 200.”

      “West Germans and citizens of other Western countries could in general visit East Germany. Usually this involved application of a visa at an East German embassy several weeks in advance. Visas for day trips restricted to East Berlin were issued without previous application in a simplified procedure at the border crossing”

      Yeah, it was built to keep people out… Yeah, sure

      The wall was BUILT to keep East Berliners IN. They often did have travel restrictions into East Berlin, but it is not what it was built for. But, whatever,

      Have a great day!!!!

      • wicked

        “The wall was BUILT to keep East Berliners IN. They often did have travel restrictions into East Berlin, but it is not what it was built for.”

        Often had travel restrictions? My memory tells me that all travel was restricted, but I admit my memory of things that didn’t affect me isn’t perfect. I have to question WHO was allowed to travel into East Berlin, though. I very vaguely remember stories of families who weren’t allowed to see each other.

        We really should leave it at ‘East Berlin and the people who lived there were closed to the world.’ We do know that people who tried to leave were killed.

  18. itolduso

    From About.com

    “Having already lost 2.5 million people by 1961, East Germany desperately needed to stop this mass exodus. The obvious leak was the easy access East Germans had to West Berlin. With the support of the Soviet Union, there had been several attempts to simply take over West Berlin in order to eliminate this exit point. Although the Soviet Union even threatened the United States with the use of nuclear weapons over this issue, the United States and other Western countries were committed to defending West Berlin.

    Desperate to keep its citizens, East Germany decided to build a wall to prevent them from crossing the border. “

  19. itolduso

    “Construction began on The Berlin Wall early in the morning of Sunday, August 13, 1961. It was a desperate – and effective – move by the GDR (German Democratic Republic) to stop East Berliners escaping from the Soviet-controlled East German state into the West of the city, which was then occupied by the Americans, British and French. ”

    http://www.berlin-life.com/berlin/wall

  20. itolduso

    Still from WIki

    “The East German government claimed that the Wall was an “anti-fascist protective rampart” (German: “antifaschistischer Schutzwall”) intended to dissuade aggression from the West.[40] Another official justification was the activities of western agents in Eastern Europe.[41] The Eastern German government also claimed that West Berliners were buying out state-subsidized goods in East Berlin. East Germans and others greeted such statements with skepticism, as most of the time, the border was only closed for citizens of East Germany traveling to the West, but not for residents of West Berlin travelling to the East.[42] “