Thursday, 10/21/10, Public Square

“The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise — with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.” —  Abraham Lincoln

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Filed under The Public Square

24 responses to “Thursday, 10/21/10, Public Square

  1. tosmarttobegop

    NPR fired Juan Williams for his comment on Fox, basically he said that if he gets on a plane.
    And see someone that is obviously dressed as a Moslem it makes him nervous even though he knows it is not all Moslems that is the problem.

    He was on the O’Reilly factor and they were talking about O’Reilly’s appearance on the View.
    Williams was actually trying to counter the statement of it was Moslems who attack us on 9-11.
    But apparently it was his statement about his reaction to seeing people dressed as Moslem that got him fired.

    I have to admit, the first time I went to Wal-Mart East and saw people that were dressed as what is associated with the Moslem faith. I was concerned and thought whether I should say I did not blame them for the attack.

    But to be honest I was stopped before I thought it out by the thought, “how do you know they were not?”.

  2. tosmarttobegop

    Mr. Williams said he concurred with Mr. O’Reilly.

    He continued: “I mean, look, Bill, I’m not a bigot. You know the kind of books I’ve written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

    Mr. Williams also made reference to the Pakistani immigrant who pleaded guilty this month to trying to plant a car bomb in Times Square. “He said the war with Muslims, America’s war is just beginning, first drop of blood. I don’t think there’s any way to get away from these facts,” Mr. Williams said.

  3. prairie pond

    I had to look up the definition of “disenthrall” because I thought I knew what it meant, but I wanted to be sure.

    We need to disenthrall ourselves from the bondage and controlling influence of religion, dominionism, and conservatism. Especially the religion of supply side economics.

    Oh yeah, and it would help if we could disenthrall ourselves from Gordon Gekko’s “greed is good” devotion.

  4. I see Muslim dress as their culture, like Hawaiians wearing a Moo Moo, or Texans wearing cowboy boots. American women wear more jewelry, high heels and makeup than most American men.

    wiki says: In many societies, norms about clothing reflect standards of modesty, religion, gender, and social status.

    Anyway, I think we mostly choose our clothing by what is comfortable (and that includes what we’re accustomed to wearing) and those loose fitting garments are probably way more comfortable than what we Westerners wear!

    It all boils down to our lack of knowledge leaves room for fears that would be erased if we only gained understanding.

    I think Juan Williams stepped out of line, and while in the presence of Bill O’Reilly he obviously forgot lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.

    • wicked

      When I see Muslim women with their head coverings and clothes, I smile. Why? Because I would imagine they get all kinds of strange looks from people who assume every “Arab” is a terrorist. The funny thing is that many of those women in that type of clothing aren’t Arab or of any Middle Eastern descent.

      My daughter had a friend in high school who converted to the Muslim faith. Now I’ll admit that it wouldn’t be my choice, but we live in a country where we’re supposed to have freedom of religion. I don’t think Bill O’Reilly or his ilk have a clue what that means.

    • Trip to the Outhouse

      When I see Moslem women–and I see a lot of them–dressed in their burqas and garbiyas–I mostly see it as a means of oppression by their menfolk–who quite often are accompanying them dressed in American-style shorts and tank tops. These same guys party, go to the clubs, and take advantage of all that western culture has to offer, while the women must follow strict rules.

      On the other hand, the Moslem women who dress without all the covering appear to be treated with a lot more equality and respect, something I’ve seen here many times, even on the one occasion when I had to the go to the Saudi consulate.

      • indypendent

        I was in the Evangelical Christian crowd for quite a few years in the late 70’s and what you described as Muslim men oppressing their women could have been said about these Evangelical Christian men.

        Their women were expected to wear dresses that covered their knees, walk behind the man with the children in tow and to NEVER cut their hair. The woman’s hair was to be long and preferably with a big bow in order to be attractive to her husband.

        I am NOT kidding – this was taught in my college class that ALL females were mandated to take – men did not have to take the class – only the women.

        That male oppression crap can be found in all societies – not just the Muslim society.

  5. Another op-ed piece speaking to the agenda of “rewriting the Constitution to make it closer to the Bible.” I too think there are signs that shouldn’t be ignored. All the while these tea party candidates are screaming about being ‘constitutionalists’ they are undermining the very constructs of that document! I think we should learn from the neocons who did not hide their agenda that this can’t be dismissed as a bunch of craziness and these people just wackos who don’t deserve any attention.

    “This troubling trend matters at this stage of the election because it again points to the contradictions between the libertarian rhetoric that the Tea Party has used to recruit supporters and the social conservative populist crowd that is trying to ride the Tea Party wave into power. It is a fault line reflected in the fact that the Tea Party caucus in congress is not populated by serious fiscal conservative leaders like Paul Ryan and Jeff Flake, but by social conservative like Michele Bachmann and seven of the 12 co-sponsors of the Birther Bill. Like that fact that five Tea Party backed Senate candidates oppose abortion even in the case of rape and incest, this shifting standard on separation of church and state represents a clear challenge to the idea of small government and individual freedom that proponents profess. These ideological fault lines will rupture eventually, and they should be recognized now.

    It’s worth saying simply: these candidates do not believe in separation of church and state as it is commonly understood by the vast majority of Americans. They believe that concept is essentially a myth propagated by those they might call ‘secular socialists.’ It is a contradiction that libertarians cannot afford to ignore, and it undercuts these candidates’ claims to represent and respect the constitutional tradition. It is evidence of the Tea Party being used by some social conservatives as a Trojan horse.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-10-21/christine-odonnells-church-state-comment-a-national-campaign-issue/?cid=hp:mainpromo7

  6. indypendent

    I think the Bill O’Reilly and the rest of these Conservative Right Republicans who want to vamp up this perceived war with Islam is nothing more than their way to spread fear and hatred.

    And hasn’t fear and hatred work so well all the other times they have done it?

    I also wonder why these same people who profess to be at war with Islam have absolutely no trouble with the Fox News parent corporation having a large stockholder who is a Saudi Prince – and he is of the Islam faith.

    How do they justify working for a Muslim but yet are at war with them?

    I guess making money for the Muslim is okay – just don’t let them get on any planes?

    That makes as much sense as saying the Tea Party Express is NOT bought and paid for by the established Republicans that Tea party supporters profess to hate so much.

    The Conservative Right has never been especially bright.

    • indypendent

      Another thing that is perplexing is I did not hear one Tea Party candidate or any Republican say one word against the US selling Saudi Arabia those $60 billion worth of military weapons.

      Excuse me – but isn’t Saudi Arabia made up of alot of those Muslims we are supposed to be at war with?

      just another example of the Right being not all that bright.

      • wicked

        It’s their followers who aren’t all that bright, and they’re counting on that continuing into infinity.

        Try to have a discussion with any one of the majority of them, and it’s like trying to talk to Sarah-Christine. As long as they can repeat the talking points they’ve been given–talking points based on absolutely nothing real or factual–then all is well. Talking points is all they have, and those don’t have to make any sense, they just have to be repeated, ad nauseum.

  7. indypendent

    The Conservative Republicans must be circling their wagons to protect Ginni Thomas.

    I just heard on MSNBC that there are people who are now accusing Anita Hill for keeping the story going because she shared the voicemail with others.

    WTF????

    but is it any surprise to see these CONS blame the real victim and try to paint themselves as being the ‘persecuted’ one? But we are talking about 20 years later – give it a rest, CONS.

  8. Did you see this story?

    One of the ‘founders’ of the Tea Party has woken up: “Tea Party my ass. This was…the Republican Party stealing the anger of a population that was fed up with the [GOP]’s own theft of their tax money at gunpoint…and fraudulently redirecting it back toward electing the very people who stole all the ****ing money!”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/tea-party-founder-slams-tea-party/

    • indypendent

      That is why I still believe that in the beginning, some of the original the Tea Party might have had some good goals.

      But they needed to get away from the GOP.

      When I saw them hitch their wagons to the GOP -funded money and Fox News – I knew then that the rebranding of the GOP (remember when that was the GOP’s goal?) had taken place.

      The Tea Party Express crowed should be called the Bait and Switch Party.

    • AWESOME. Finally someone on the “inside” speaks the truth.

  9. G-STIR

    How can anyone seriously think of returning the Republicans to control of the Congress? Don’t we have about 2 or 3 more generations to pay for the last time they “ran” things?

  10. Student leader, Joel Francis, challenges Charles Koch to debate Prop 23 and CA’s economic future

    • indypendent

      I suspect Mr Koch is much too busy to be bothered with an actual debate.

      Kinda like we are currently seeing with Mike Pompeo cancelling his debates with Goyle.

      • Freebird1971

        IMHO Pompeo canceled the debates because he believes what the polls are telling him,that he is going to win,so why do something that might damage your chances of what seems to be a sure win.

      • I agree Freebird! He has the election in his pocket and why chance a screw up.

        I want everyone to understand I don’t like it, I’ve just accepted it as the current reality. It isn’t just Pompeo, and I think if Goyle enjoyed the same lead he may also avoid chances where he might screw up.

        Even if candidates do ‘debate,’ (aka answer questions with answers that may be interpreted the way you choose), we learn little. Even if they give straight up answers that don’t have room for interpretation that isn’t necessarily an indication of what they’ll do once elected. This pertains to most candidates from all political parties.