Friday, 9/10/10, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

64 responses to “Friday, 9/10/10, Public Square

  1. No event works without a little promotion. And despite the media’s best efforts to turn “International Burn A Quran Day” into a big deal, somebody decided that Terry Jones and his Dove World Outreach Center needed a commercial.

  2. Not to be outdone in the world of hate, according to HuffPo —

    UPDATE: It looks like this commercial wasn’t only a parody, but a prophecy. When it was produced two days ago, Fred Phelps (the guy who protests with “God Hates Fags” signs outside of military funerals) hadn’t gotten involved with the Quran burning debate. But now he’s decided that if Jones backs out, he’ll do it himself.

  3. Her story is worth a read. She is a Muslim mother and wife, who’s husband was killed in the WTC attack. For me, this separates the religion from the terrorists, and puts a face on an individual Muslim and not a mass media formed impression. Very touching.

  4. Doug Melton, the man pictured on the left in the pic at this link is Chad’s mentor, and it was his lab where Chad did his post-doc study before he had his own lab.

    Scientists Are Optimistic as Appeals Court Lifts Injunction Against Stem-Cell Research

    Critics of embryonic-stem-cell research have argued that adult stem cells hold the greater scientific promise. But many stem-cell researchers disagree, saying that comparisons are unfair. Embryonic research has been limited to about 10 years of work because of the political and legal controversies, while the science of adult stem cells is 50 years old. “Yes, adult-stem-cell research is ahead—40 years ahead,” said Richard O. Hynes, a professor of cancer research at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “That doesn’t mean it has more promise.”

    • The comments at this link are interesting. (Note that some comments have already been deleted, perhaps only those obviously ‘selling’ something and not those expressing divergent opinions.)

    • I can just hear the antis now; “When embryonic stem cell research still is behind adult stem cell research in forty years, they (proponents of embryonic stem cell research) will again claim its because of the additional time devoted. No matter what, they’ll never catch up. End it now!!” (or words to the same effect).

      • …and save those blastocysts from research so they can be destroyed out back in the incinerator where no one needs to notice.

        Luckily, treatments and cures won’t be restricted to only those who support their development! Well, that is unless we force the research to be funded by private money and we see an influx of greedy private entrepreneurs who want to sell those cures and treatments to the highest bidders. I honestly don’t see scientists following that greedy path, but I do see our most talented going out of the U.S.A. to do their work!

      • It could turn into yet another area where America is no longer a leader.

      • fnord,

        Your concerns are well founded, imho.

        There is a big problem with research which is privately funded in its entirety. No, I’m not grousing about patents, etc. (I’ll save that for another time), but at the thought that at least some research that should potentially benefit everyone must be funded privately or not at all. Yes, if totally funded privately, the funding entity should be and is entitled to receive a return on its investment; but shouldn’t basic research (or all research, basic or applied) be funded publicly if it has a broad, general benefit? That is, if it is research that leads to a breakthrough in treatment of Type II diabetes, e.g., should not same be funded publicly and available to all without royalties, allowances for dividends to shareholders, etc., lowering the costs of medications, genetic modifications, whatever to those who suffer or potentially will suffer from this chronic condition?

    • wicked

      The only problem I see is the appeals court being appealed and the whole mess ending up with the Supremes. (Diana Ross not included.) I don’t trust those buggers. (buggers: nasty Brit term. Look it up. 😉 )

      • I don’t trust those buggers either. Recently they’ve shown me how much they approve of the monied corporations.

      • A bit like the wonderful British expression concerning “knocking up” a female (in particular), huh, wicked?

      • wicked

        Yes! Knock me up in the morning!

        In high school, our (nutso) drama teacher banned the use of the term “bloody” during rehearsals and production of Pygmalion. Heaven only knows what she’d do with “bugger.”


    Just happened across this when checking the weather forecast. Probably old news to most, but I thought it was something useful.

    • We could sure use the rain, but tonight I planned to go to the nearby high school and watch two of my grand kids who are in the marching band — a drummer and a trombone player. I’m not going if the weather isn’t wonderful — I’ll catch them another time. One of the perks of being the grand parent vs the parent. 😉

      • As one of the world’s worst trombone players, my hat is off to anyone who can 1) march while 2) getting that (expletive deleted) slide into the correct position(s) to accurately play the notes when it is time.

      • My trombone player is a rather petite 14 year old female who takes great pride in doing what other females didn’t try.

      • Ah, a female trombone player; as a group, some of my very favorite crazy musicians. 🙂

      • Probably need to expand on that; all trombone players are crazy (just ask me, I’ll tell you), and to be a female in that general insanity… Well, I think I’ll quit digging for now.

      • wicked

        Hooray for nonconformists!!!

        (I played flute. 😦 Totally conformist.)

      • indypendent

        I played the drums back in the late 60’s – talk about way before my time!

        I was the only female near the drum section. My junior high band teacher was a non-comformist and encouraged me to play. When I got to high school, that band teacher was a macho-type guy and told me upfront that I would never play in his band.

        Sad to say – in those years – girls were often treated as second class citizens. So I quit playing the drums.

      • I’ve seen my grand daughter’s ‘full-of herself’ expression when she glances over at the flute players.

        Indy, playing the drums with the guys reminds me of my oldest grandson. His first year of college he took a rock-climbing class. He told us it was an attempt to rid himself of his fear of heights (a phobia we all knew he possessed). Weeeelllll, we soon discovered (thanks to his younger brother ratting him out as would be expected of a younger brother) this class was predominantly female. Aaannndddd, he had shared his fear of heights with his classmates who all took him under their wings and helped him. So, we heard from the rat, he usually was tied between females and had the opportunity of seeing the sights whether he looked up or down. He still doesn’t enjoy heights but he loved that class!

      • paulasayles

        “Sad to say – in those years – girls were often treated as second class citizens. ”

        I was treated that way when I tried to play soccer in sixth grade. No girls allowed. The coach, a wonderful man from Columbia who obviously brought his cultural biases with him to this country, was afraid that my playing soccer might affect my development at a very critical stage and that it would be difficult and dangerous for me if the ball hit my chest. He told me this and told my parents he would not allow me to play.

        I wish they would have fought for me. I thought it was one of the most ridiculous things I ever heard of and when I tell my twelve year old son and my grandkids about this, they can’t even IMAGINE anything so crazy being true.

    • wicked

      I’ll take the forecast with a block of salt lick. The weather guessers have been off quite a bit lately.

  6. indypendent

    I heard that Florida preacher Jones on the CBS Early Show this morning talking about how he called off his Koran burning due to some deal with the WTC mosque being built at another location.


    It seems the Imam in of the WTC mosque is saying he never agreed to relocating the proposed mosque.

    What is this Jones guy trying to pull here? Is this just his way of trying to appear that he is willing to compromise and Muslims cannot be trusted to keep their word?

    And then armed with this feigned outrage, Jones and his fellow supporters can go ahead with the Koran burning and feel even more justified?

    The other story on this event is how the media has fueled the fire of this hatred of Muslims by even covering the Jones story.

    I remember Christian televangelists Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham both putting in their 2 cents worth (which is about their true value) when they told their loyal minions that Islam is a cult and is of the Devil.

    How is that hatred talk NOT fueling this fire?

    BTW – I never heard one Conservative Christian leader denounce either Robertson or Graham for saying those things.

    There is alot of blame to go around here – but that is what happens when religion is brought into any discussion.

    • wicked

      What I read is that the local FL Imam is at the root of this, although not his fault, more than likely. It was his suggestion that Jones go talk to the NYC Imam. Jones, deranged and illogical, apparently believed a deal had been made that the “mosque” site would be changed . There was no deal made, except to agree to meet.

      Here’s my take, probably also a bit deranged. If anyone dies as a direct result of this Quran burning, Jones should be charged with being an accomplice to murder. While there is free speech in this country, Jones is inciting people to kill, and he knows it.

      • indypendent

        When I heard Jones talking about this deal, I had doubts as whether it was true or not.

        I would not be surprised if it was not just some ruse to make it look like the poor Christians are being victimized – again – and then they think the rest of the world is going to feel they are justified for going ahead and burn the Koran – just as planned before.

        But I am a cynical person – so maybe I see things in a different light?

        Or maybe I just know how these poor ‘victimized’ Christians think? Haven’t you noticed how all these Christians feed on that victim card? Its pathetic and sad.

        If their God is superior and they are the only ones going to Heaven, then how are they victims?

        I have never gotten an answer to that question whenever I ask one of these professing ‘victimized’ Christians.

  7. indypendent

    With all the corporations running the show now – I think we should make all elected and non-elected politicians wear their sponsor-paid suits – like the NASCAR drivers do.

    I wonder if this is one time both parties might actually agree and say No Way to this proposal?

  8. indypendent

    This article should make us all sit up and take notice. But if we had taken notice when we should have, we would not be in the mess we are in today.

    Isn’t the 9/11 Commission Report that pesky little thing the Bush Administration kept ignoring?

    • “Isn’t the 9/11 Commission Report that pesky little thing the Bush Administration kept ignoring?”


      Recall the Bush Administration’s total opposition to the creation of the 9/11 Commission, a view that appeared to change about the time of an election. Thus, not a big surprise that it and its recommendations were routinely ignored.

    • wicked

      I remember watching the hearings. In fact, I think I taped Condi’s tap dancing.

  9. 6176,

    Yesterday you questioned what a whistle stop campaign might look like in 2010. This would be part of it, I suspect.

  10. Some brief thoughts on the DADT decision from CA yesterday:

    1) Does a Federal District Court Judge have the authority to craft an injunction with nation-wide scope? I don’t think so, absent some federal statute, and I’m not aware of any that would provide such authority.

    2) Does this allow the full use of Article 125, UCMJ, to court-martial gays, lesbians, et al with impunity, carrying with it all the negative outcomes associated with courts-martial?? Seems to me that it allows this “full speed ahead” with DADT being found to be unconstitutional.

    I think the judge is correct in her ruling, but the above two questions immediately arose. FYI, Article 125 is the “sodomy” article; negative consequences of courts-martial include a federal criminal conviction; depending upon whether a Special or General Court, a Bad Conduct Discharge (max for a Special) or a Dishonorable Discharge (max for a General), forfeiture of pay and allowances, prison sentences, etc.

    • So this step could have a negative effect? Instead of only being dismissed, it would perhaps land these soldiers in a more dangerous position of not only dismissal but possible criminal charges, monetary involvements…

      I remember hearing somewhere that President Obama wanted a law, not just an executive order but a law. Would this decision by a District Judge put the issue on a fast track to SCOTUS? Would a ruling by the highest Court do what lawmakers haven’t?

      • Yes, fnord, it well could.

        Pres. Obama wants a law due, I believe, to what I call the forced codification of DADT. That is, a law to repeal the existing law.

        The decision would not do that, fnord, unless DOJ appeals. It may well, given DOJs statutory obligations. This should not be taken as necessarily reflecting the attitude of the President on this issue, particularly given Congress’ ability to force such appeal through statutory action or withholding funding.

        What needs to occur, IMHO, is a statute repealing DADT combined with repeal of Article 125, UCMJ, implemented by Executive Order. Art 120, UCMJ, covers forcible sodomy, as well as rape, “statutory rape”, etc. (You all realize I’m doing a bunch of this from memory, with a bit of help from Google, don’t you?).

      • I know you are exponentially smarter and better educated than me! I hope something good comes of this, it’s well past time for all biases and unequal treatment of humans to end.

  11. paulasayles

    I got some bad news today. My Dad, who is almost eighty and has diabetes, had been waiting on an operation to fix three deteriorated discs in his back. But the doctor couldn’t do the surgery until he got his diabetes under control. He was doing better on that, but then some tests the doctor ordered showed some possible problem with his heart. Yesterday the tests confirmed a large blockage that could not be removed with stents, as had been hoped. The doctor told them that it is possible that my Dad is not a candidate for bypass due to his Diabetes and the difficulty he has had in controlling it. They have to talk to another surgeon about this, but it seems like a catch twenty-two at this point.

    Does anyone have any experience or knowledge in this area that might give some hope? Feeling pretty hopeless today.

    • I know that diabetes and heart disease in combination make treatments difficult. What helps one may have negative effects on the other, and vice versa.

      I wish you didn’t have this worry and hurt. I’m sorry. I mean that, and words sound so empty…

      • Thanks, fnord. I know the words are from the heart and they don’t sound empty at all. I appreciate the kindness. And, for those that believe in such things, I would appreciate any prayers and/or positive energies that anyone can spare.

    • tosmarttobegop

      Kind of yes and no on advise, my grandmother and my mother-in-law both had a problem where to treat one thing would cause the other problem worse. With Grandma it was her heart and her liver, they would treat her heart problem and it would cause her liver problem to get worse. And like wise treating her liver problem was causing her heart problem to act up.

      Mother-in-law was swelling on the brain and the treatment caused ulcers to form in her bowls and finally on her kidneys. To stop treating the swelling so they could treat the ulcers cause the swelling to increase.
      The best they could hope for was a happy balance so that it would mean both were controlled at the same time.

      The problem is that neither are truly cured and still a threat, is your dad type 1 or type 2 diabetes?
      My wife is type 2 and got emergency by-pass, yes it was a concern and they had to do a quick step on both problems.

      The problem is trying to balance between too high and too low blood sugars.
      Your body during a shock will release more sugars, or less insulin to allow for more sugars.
      Which can be a problem as the body is becoming confused as to what to do.

      If they could not shun it could be that the blockage is a place where to shun one side would block another like my wife was. She had four blockages and three they could shun but the forth was at a place where it “Y” so to shun one side would block the other. That is why they ended up doing open heart by-pass on all four.

      If he is type 2 it is a matter of his body is not having the enzyme that tells the muscles to take in sugar.
      That could not be as great a problem. Type 1 is his body is not producing enough insulin which can be a good problem since the need will so fluctuate for one moment to the next there is a real danger of having too much all the sudden.

      • Thanks for the good info, tstbgop. It is really helpful to understand the situation. I don’t know which type of diabetes my Dad has. I know he hasn’t always had it and that his mother developed it in later life like he did. I don’t really know anything else because my folks are the kind that don’t like to talk about these things because they don’t want a fuss to be made. The fact that my mother has told us all the facts this time and even told us that the doctor suggested that some of us might like to be in on the consultation has got me pretty scared. Knowledge is power, even if it is just to prepare for the inevitable.

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      I’m far from an expert, but here is the conundrum I think the doctors are facing:

      Any injury to the body increases blood sugar. That’s to promote healing. Since your father has been having trouble controlling his blood sugar, the natural physiological response of increasing the blood sugar level due to the trauma from the surgery could trigger a diabetic coma, among other things.

      Further complicating matters, years of uncontrolled diabetes (I’m hypothesizing here) has the effect of weakening the vascular system. (This is why an unfortunate result of the disease is amputation of toes, etc., due to decreased blood flow resulting from compromised blood vessels.) Thus, in addition to the coma potential, there exists a real potential of not finding suitable veins to be used in the graft to bypass the blocked artery(ies).

      With all that said, the doctors are the ones to assess all risks and rewards, and it’s up to your dad to make the call. Hang in there; it isn’t easy.

      BTW, I’m a Type II diabetic (diagnosed on or about 4/20/09, which coincidentally is the day I had my stroke).

      • “(diagnosed on or about 4/20/09, which coincidentally is the day I had my stroke).”

        It was no coincidence. It was when he saw a doctor in the treatment of his stroke. Did he tell you he called 911 and was at the hospital within minutes of that stroke? This, after directing the first responders how they would need to roll him in his chair with wheels out to the lobby of his suite of offices since the room he was in wasn’t big enough to get the gurney in. The man is amazing! And he will never ‘toot his horn,’ so I will do it for him!

        He saw too many doctors previously, but all were treating / caring for his wife. He didn’t go to doctors as he enjoyed good health and all that.

        I know all about this not going to doctors, because I don’t see doctors either.

      • I have been of late seeing too many doctor’s waiting rooms while I drive my Mom around to her appointments.

      • 6176, I think there may be an additional problem then. I think Dad’s diabetes either progressed quickly or went undiagnosed for awhile because it was just a few years ago that he got his diagnosis and he has already lost feeling in his feet. My mother also told one of my siblings that he has PAD.

        There IS the consult with the other cardiac surgeon, but it doesn’t sound hopeful to me. My mother said something about medications, but I don’t put a lot of faith in those. They may help the blockage, but it always comes with a price and I wonder what other problems they will cause.

        Thanks for all the helpful information!

      • wicked

        I have a good friend whose diabetic husband had a quadruple bypass.

        Paula, you have my prayers and sending positive energy along with them.

  12. Because I have a lot of things to talk about… 😉

  13. Wow! Just went outside to engage in that great Kansas tradition; looking at the weather.

    It is oppressively humid; not a breath of air moving. To the South, the constant (or almost constant) lightning is providing an eerily beautiful backlighting to the towering clouds which are moving North, oh so slowly.

    I suspect the residents of Derby and Mulvane, among others, are in the midst of a Kansas thunderstorm.

    • Just heard the first rumbles of thunder, coming from the West. This requires additional personal inspection.

      UPDATE: It’s like a tropical monsoon rain out there. Still no wind…

    • wicked

      We got some hard rain here for a little while, then it moved away. The air is still thick.

      Grandkids are here for the evening. #2 daughter is attending 10 year HS reunion. And I continue to age.

  14. The football game was stopped — lightening, severe weather warning. Since the grand daughter and grand son’s school was behind when the game was stopped for weather I assured them their team would have come back if … They looked at me like I was crazy. I guess Northwest doesn’t have a football team that elicits much confidence.

    Fed the grandkids some chocolate cake and a gallon of milk, delivered them home safely and all is well.

    I’m so glad I live nearby.

  15. I just found this on my quote of the day —

    “Nihilism is best done by professionals.”
    – Iggy Pop

    Who do you think Iggy Pop is?

    I’m gonna google this, of course. But, I had to laugh before I go ruin my first inclination. 😉

    • I couldn’t believe you didn’t know who Iggy Pop is. He is an extremely interesting fellow and I was quite sure that just about everyone knew who he was. As a matter of fact, there is a song lyric by a group that your grandchildren might have heard of (The Red Hot Chili Peppers) that mentions him…dance like Iggy Pop.”

    • There’s more I don’t know about than I do. I’m trying, but there’s so much work to do just to catch up. I know I can, I know I can… 🙂

      • paulasayles

        I know so many random unimportant things that I sometimes forget that the stuff I know isn’t close to common knowledge. I am one of those people who always gets accused of memorizing the answers on the cards in Trivial Pursuit.

        I don’t know important things and can’t even seem to recall appointments and meetings, but I know who Iggy Pop is! 😉

      • paulasayles

        Here’s my favorite Iggy Pop song:

      • paulasayles

        And here’s a video I found that is like an overview of the whole career. Like I said, a very interesting fellow.

      • wicked

        I remember the name and the face, although I wouldn’t be able to put the two together. I don’t remember many British bands or artists from the late ’60s or so on. Must be my advanced age. LOL

      • My daughters were born in 1965 and 67, I was still a child myself who now was responsible for two children, a home, a marriage… I poured myself into adult pursuits and missed learning much of youth.

  16. Nihilism

    –noun rejection of established laws and institutions.
    2.anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity. and absolute destructiveness, esp. toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler’s last years.
    4.Philosophy. extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
    b.nothingness or nonexistence.
    5.(sometimes initial capital letter) the principles of a Russian revolutionary group, active in the latter half of the 19th century, holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination.
    6.annihilation of the self, or the individual consciousness, esp. as an aspect of mystical experience.

  17. Iggy Pop (born James Newell Osterberg, Jr.; April 21, 1947) is an American singer, songwriter, musician, and occasional actor.[1] He is considered an influential innovator of punk rock, hard rock, and other styles of rock music.[1] Pop began calling himself Iggy after his first band in high school (for which he was drummer), The Iguanas.[2] Iggy Pop is widely acknowledged as one of the most dynamic stage performers of all time.[1]

    • wicked

      Ah! I skipped punk rock, and wasn’t a huge fan of hard rock or metal. There were a few I listened to in the beginning in the very late ’60s. I was fully grown with kids when I discovered Aerosmith, Guns & Roses, and Bon Jovi, but I guess those are considered hair bands. Shoot, I don’t know. I spent the ’80s having babies. 1980, 1982, 1984, 1989. Who had time to drool over bands?

      Okay, I admit that I remember Ozzy and Kiss and even a bit of Twisted Sister, but they weren’t on my playlist, so to speak.

      Sad, I know.

      • paulasayles

        I like almost all forms of music and punk rock was pretty big in my “formative” years. Some was good, some was hideous, but it was all something “new” or so we thought at the time. I am always interested in music innovators so sometimes I check them out even if I don’t like their music. As the article said, Iggy Pop is a tremendous stage performer. I love just about every kind of live music and great performances come in all flavors and varieties.

        I haven’t stopped listening to new music. Not so much the pop, but alternative and rock. I am old, but ain’t dead yet. 🙂

        I intend to continue to listen to new music as long as it holds any interest to me whatsoever. Maybe it will keep my spirit young, because sometimes it feels pretty darned old.