Saturday, 5/29/10, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

55 responses to “Saturday, 5/29/10, Public Square

  1. WSClark

    Happy Memorial Day weekend to one and all! Enjoy your time with friends and family. Above all, be safe, watch out for the loons (not that Loon) on the roads.

    “Summertime and the livin’ is easy!”

  2. Happy Memorial Day weekend everyone!!!

    Did anyone hear about Glenn Beck saying people should leave kids (particularly Palin’s kids) alone? Then a couple days later makes fun of 11 year-old Malia Obama and questions her intelligence!
    Can one say hypocrite? (But to be fair, he did apologize -after people got mad).|main|dl1|link3|

    • WSClark

      That’s just Glen Beck being Glen Beck – you know, an asshole. They are all cut from the same cloth, Beck, Coulter, Limbaugh, Malkin, Hannity.

      As for Palin – she says leave my kids out of it, then proceeds to trot them out in front of the cameras.

      Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.

      • itolduso

        Ya mean, like when the President used his daughter to make a point about how involved and concerned he is with the oil spill? Like that?

      • WSClark

        Are just trolling, Told Ya, or do you have a point to make?

        From the tone of your comment, I guess you are okay with Beck making fun of an eleven year old girl.

    • Isn’t Beck a dry drunk like bush the lesser? Maybe that explains some of the more bizarre behavior.

      • itolduso

        I have a problem with anybody using kids for political talking points, and that includes the President. Beck is an idiot. So what?
        I do not see anywhere where I justified his actions. If I did, please point it out to me. I am waiting

      • WSClark

        “I am waiting.”

        Then keep waiting.

        Did Obama ridicule Beck’s kids? Did Obama haul his girls out in front of the cameras?

        Obama mentioned that his daughter was concerned about the link. He’s a father, he mentioned something that one of his children said.

        Political talking points? Far from it.

  3. WSClark

    Dennis Hopper has died. RIP, Easy Rider!

  4. itolduso

    Then keep waiting.

    That is exactly what I thought. My post said nothing about Beck, didn;t support his actions in any way, and was actually in response to your remarks about Palin using her kids for political drama.

    You pulled the whole “From the tone of your comment, I guess you are okay with Beck making fun of an eleven year old girl.”

    out of your imagination.

    If politicians of all stripes want people to leave thier kids alone, and that includes Palin, Obama, and all the rest, keep them out of the conversation

    And even if they don’t then commentators should leave them alone, other than reminding the offender of his or her desire to leave the family out of it.

  5. WSClark

    “out of your imagination”


    I know exactly what you meant – taking a cheap shot at Obama – that was the only reason for your comment.

  6. Wow. I sure opened a can of worms, didn’t I? My bad.

    • WSClark

      Not your fault, Lisa, not at all. There is a big difference between mentioning something your daughter said and someone making fun a politician’s child.

      BTW: I am the resident fighter around here – just my nature – Fnord tries to keep me on a tight leash.

      Just don’t think that you are responsible for a little harsh exchange – each of us is responsible for ourselves.

      • No need of a leash! I trust you and it’s because you’ve earned my trust. Yes, you’re a fighter and I’m a coward. Kind of a good balance, dontchathink? You teach me, you help me find a voice sometimes when I should, I gain from the knowing of you!

  7. itolduso

    I know exactly what you meant – taking a cheap shot at Obama – that was the only reason for your comment


  8. itolduso

    Lisa, you did fine. Beck is an idiot, and needs to be exposed whenever he offers such trash. You did everyone a favor by linking to it.

    My remarks had nothing to do with Beck, and WSCLARK knows it

  9. prairie pond

    itolduso, that ; instead of a ‘ was/is the trademark of a weblog poster named littlejohn.

    It was also a trademark long ago of a weblog poster named john stone.

    Just asking. It would be nice if you answered honestly. No one will ban you for ‘fessing up.

  10. prairie pond

    …and on a different subject…

    I stole this from Crooks and Liars, but given my support for Hillary in the Democratic primary, I cant help but say… well… nevermind….

    With Approval Ratings In The 60s, Hillary Clinton Is Our Most Popular Living Politician.

    By Susie Madrak

    Every time I hear this song from “Wicked,” I picture Maureen Dowd lecturing Hillary Clinton what she should do to be popular.

    As someone who backed Hillary Clinton in the primaries, I’d like to remind readers of some of the reasons progressive activists gave as “why we simply can’t have Hillary as President.”

    “Everyone hates her.” (That’s probably why she’s so popular.)

    “She has no foreign policy experience.” (I suppose that’s why Obama named her Secretary of State.)

    “She’s a corporatist from the DLC wing of the party.” (Hmm, I’d call that one a wash, considering we instead elected the man who hired Larry Summers and Tim Geithner.)

    “The right wing will go after her, and the country can’t take another eight years of that.” (This is the one that really makes me laugh. When will Democrats learn it simply doesn’t matter who we nominate? Anyone we support will get the same treatment.)

    “We can’t have Bill Clinton hanging around, getting into trouble.” (You mean, like when Rahm asked him to talk to Joe Sestak?)

    Look, I wanted Hillary Clinton because I figured she would be a lot more liberal on domestic policies, and I knew we were headed into an economic crash. It was pure self-interest. The tradeoff is, she’s usually an AIPAC rubberstamp and a war hawk. As much as that disgusts me, I was willing to take that trade. But really, Obama hasn’t been much better, has he?

    The fact is, we’ll probably never know what President Hillary Clinton would have done. Oh well, at least she’s popular!

    Chris Bowers has the scoop:

    Here is a weekend factoid for you: among all living politicians in the United States who have ever held elected office, Hillary Clinton [is] the most popular.

    That’s right. Ever since she became Secretary of State, her favorables have soared into the mid-60’s, putting her well clear of any other statewide officeholder in the country. The only national figures who are viewed as favorably as Clinton are Michelle Obama, Colin Powell, and David Patraeus. However, they have never run for office, which invariably lowers your favorables.

    Hillary Clinton will turn 69 in in the final week of the 2016 campaign, which makes her slightly younger than Ronald Reagan when he first was elected in 1980. Also, as Secretary of State, a major presidential candidate, a U.S. Senator, and First Lady, she is also probably more credentialed than any other potential Presidential candidate, too. There is even talk she may become the next Secretary of Defense, further adding to her credentials.

    Some have said that, in choosing Joe Biden as Vice-President, Barack Obama did not pick a successor to lead the Democratic Party. However, that needs rethinking. Because Barack obama made her Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton remains remarkably well-positioned to run for President in 2016, even more so than she was in 2008.

    • When will Democrats learn it simply doesn’t matter who we nominate? Anyone we support will get the same treatment.

      I am one of the guilty ones! I too ‘stood for’ Hillary at the Kansas caucus (what a wonderful snowy night that was 😉 ) and later said I thought she was too polarizing…

      This last election is what it took for me! I’m a slow learner, but once learned I don’t forget.

  11. prairie pond


    Democrats just never learn, do they?

    Or… was it because she’s a woman?

    • indypendent

      I still hold out hope that Hillary will run for president. A lot of people cite her age as being a negative – but as you pointed out – she would be younger than Ronald Reagan was when he was first elected.

      And I’m betting Hillary at 69 would be a hell of alot better than Ronald Reagan was at 29 – 39- 49- or even 59 yrs old – LOL.

      Hillary can run circles around any and all Republicans wannabee presidential candidates.

      But I was not really all that surprised when Hillary got knocked out at the primary. The country was more ready to vote in a black male president than a woman of any color – IMHO.

    • I learned!

      And you know it wasn’t because she was a woman for me. It does piss me off that an airhead like Palin can benefit from the hard work of Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton has spent her entire life advancing the rights of women, because Palin has a vagina she gets to tear down the progress and earn the respect of some idiots who will never be able to discern the difference between the two! In fact, the vagina might be all those two women have in common!

      • indypendent

        I think my trouble with Hillary running (like I tried to say before) was Bill’s attitude towards the entire process.

        It was like Bill thought by just throwing his weight around, that the sea would part and he would walk through as the history-making male that became First Lady.

        Like I also said before, I don’t know how much of that was really going on or if that was being played up by the media?

        Well, that is all water under the bridge now. But as for serving our country well – Hillary has done an amazing job and I suspect will continue to do amazing things for us.

        And, imagine, Hillary did not have to put on tiara, do fancy pageant walking, talent competition, wave or wink – you betcha!

  12. itolduso

    prairie pond

    Your instincts are correct. And I have never heard of John Stone. I outed myself with my stupid ongoing typo.

    • If it’s any consolation several of us suspected. And, you’re right, it makes no difference. I appreciated your insight before this blog began and do still. I know you point out inconsistencies and hypocrisy used by us lefties. You’ve given me the same treatment, and although it was always deserved it bristled for me to look that closely at me. Are you as quick to point our those same inconsistencies and hypocrisies of the righties? Not many of them here, but on other blogs do you? I’ve never seen it at the blog we all first met.

      Perhaps we’re all too human. Anyway, I, to this day take cheap shots at bush the lesser. (And, btw, that was a cheap shot at President Obama as well as pointing out a fault you found with Will!) I find nothing redeeming about the man, he drug our country down to a level that we still haven’t recovered from, he started a war of choice and sent off our fellow Americans to die or carry the tolls of war with them for the rest of a life that certainly is changed. He and his committed more atrocities than he should ever be forgiven for, and I will never forget. I’ll also keep the memories alive so others won’t be able to forget as easily. He finished much of what Reagan started in giving our country to corporate interests. I could go on for a long time as I have a very long list of grievances.

      Some must hold the same strong negative opinions of President Obama as I do about bush the lesser. I don’t understand why, but I understand the feelings. When you have that strong an opinion it will show!

      • itolduso

        “Are you as quick to point our those same inconsistencies and hypocrisies of the righties? Not many of them here, but on other blogs do you? I’ve never seen it at the blog we all first met. ”

        Sometimes I do, sometime I don’t. There usually isn’t any need to do so, the “lefties” have it fairly well covered. Depends on my mood, I suppose. Just as on here, I spend weeks not posting, though I read it daily. At the other place, pretty much the same. THere are few over there that I bother to discuss things with. Many are just plain rollover territory, on both the right and the left. I am sure you know which ones are which.

        As to Bush, Past history. I don’t hold the same feelings as you, but neither do I believe he was a successful President. But whatever, his time is done. I criticized him often when he was in office. I will criticize the current President while he is in office when I disagree with his actions, which is a good part of the time. I don’t share your enthusiam for the man, but neither do I think he is the devil incarnate, or even close.

        Anyway, ya’all have a good evening. I am out.

        Have a great memorial day weekend, and spend at least a few minutes honoring those that served.

  13. itolduso

    No reason to not be honest about it. Just preferred it this way.

  14. prairie pond

    Thank you for confirming.

  15. indypendent

    I don’t see Obama talking about his daughter asking if BP has plugged the hole yet as being anything political.

    Obama is in a no-win situation with his critics – of all political stripes.

    No matter what the man does – he will ruffle the panties of one of his critics and they don’t like their panties messed with, you know.

    Now Beck is a different story – he intentionally did his best to roll around in the gutter to get his dittoheads to sit and snicker like a bunch of 5th graders in the locker room for the first time seeing all those naked bodies.

  16. indypendent


    Just exactly what do you think Obama should be doing about the oil spill – other than talking about how he and his daughter was talking about it? The federal agencies are down there and there is a point man in charge – put there by Obama.

    Obama has been monitoring the situation and it is up to BP to clean up their own mess – IMHO.

    If Obama had run in the first day, landed a fighter jet on the oil rig, dressed in a fighter suit with a big banner exclaiming – Mission Accomplished – would that make you feel better?

    • itolduso

      “If Obama had run in the first day, landed a fighter jet on the oil rig, dressed in a fighter suit with a big banner exclaiming – Mission Accomplished – would that make you feel better”

      Sorry, no.

      In my opinion, the statement about his daughter was deliberate, and used for political purpose. After all, he and his advisors have repeatedly stated that they want to control the messsage. But again, specifically, it was less a remark about Obama, and more about peoples respond about all politicians. Palin is constantly villified for her saying anything about her kids, now her kids, on this blog and others, are a subject of ridicule. Obama gets a pass? Not in my book. But, go ahead, bring up Bush. So what. He’s not the President.

      TO answer your more important question, there are things that this adminstration has done slowly, and should take some heat for. However, it is a huge problem, one not encountered before. BP is doing what it can to stop the leak, the President has ordered logistical support etc. You didn’t see me blasting him for his reponse, now did you. I have been in disasters, it takes awhile to get your shit together. Put your sword back in it’s sheath, it’s not necessary, unless you believe the current President does everything perfectly.

  17. I’m glad Obama is the president., fairly glad Clinton became Secretary of State. I was for her for president too until about 3 or 4 days before she pulled out of the race. Why I switched to Obama was due to her and her husband. They were hateful and below the belt and I had had enough.
    So when Obama got elected that was one of the happiest nights of my life and I am proud to have cast my vote for him.
    Mind you, in 2016 I’m totally voting for Hillary.

    • indypendent

      I was twisted during the primary. I was for Hillary but I had this nagging feeling that Bill Clinton (especially) thought the nomination was somehow ‘owed’ to Hillary and I resented feeling that pressure.

      I don’t know how much of that was actually going on, but I do know several Democratic family and friends got the same feeling.

      I voted for Obama and would do so again because from all the Republicans bellying up to their bar to run for president – I would not trust a one of them with their hands on the nuke button. Not with all their singing about bomb, bomb, bomb.

      I am not saying Obama has done everything I like or I want him to do, but for that matter – what politician has been that perfect a match?

      I dare say – none.

  18. I am a fan of President Obama! I think he is the right president for this time. Do I agree with him always? Absolutely not! He is fighting a difficult battle with obstacles no other president has had to face. He is doing good! He is pragmatic, highly intelligent, and I think will go down in history as one of our greatest presidents.

    • indypendent

      The poor guy had his running start line pushed back by Bush and Gang so dang far, it will take him his first term to see the light of day.

      Oh, I forgot, we cannot blame Bush anymore.

      Yeah, right. Put the blame where it belongs – squarely on Bush and all the lockstepping incumbent Republicans who are now in the Tea Party and telling people to kick out all incumbents.

      The hypocrisy is so annoying from that side of the aisle.

      • Oh, I forgot, we cannot blame Bush anymore.”

        Riiiiight! Makes me laugh out loud! They’re still blaming Clinton. I do understand they don’t want to face what bush the lesser did and the long-lasting effect we’re still dealing with. It really doesn’t matter to me if they bury their heads in the sand. Makes them look and sound even sillier.

        There’s never been a time when ignoring history was a good decision.

  19. indypendent

    Have you heard the flap Obama haters are making over the fact that he and his family went to Chicago for the weekend?

    He is planning to go to the Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery just south of Chicago and VP Joe Biden will be going to Arlington National Cemetery.

    Of course, the false claim that Obama will be the first president ever to not lay a wreath at Arlington on Memorial Day has been spread far and wide by the Obama haters.

    Just do a Google search or go to and see what you learn about exactly which recent presidents actually did miss going to Arlington Cemetery on Memorial Day. The results will surprise you (or maybe not).

    The ironic part is – Bill Clinton is the only recent president that actually did go to Arlington Cemetery each year in his 8 terms as president.

    Seems George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush and even St. Ronald Reagan all missed a couple of years.

    When will Republicans learn that just because they say something does not make it true? These Republicans really do need to learn how to use the internet.

    • indypendent

      FYI – Ronald Reagan missed 4 years out of his 8 in office.

      Somebody on another blog made the joke that it was probably the last 4 years and Reagan couldn’t find the cemetery – LOL.

    • I honestly think Reagan’s Alzheimer disease was affecting him for at least 6 of his years in office, with increasing severity. Now that we know, it’s easy to go back and connect the dots on when we actually saw him and what he said and how long he spoke…

      Do you think the truth of that story will ever be told? Probably not, because it would expose too much of the inner workings of the presidency.

      When you hear the rabid haters complaining about everything (and we know no matter what decision President Obama makes, no matter what action he takes they would complain!) a rational adult has to acknowledge that every president has to trust some people to take care of their part of the responsibilities, and even being well informed about every bit of information is probably impossible for any human being. The squeaky wheel will get the grease, just like in our lives.

      • indypendent

        Sometimes I don’t know if he really had Alzheimers at the time or if that is just the story we got after he was out of office?

        But whatever the truth is, I don’t think we will ever learn the extent of the inner workings of the presidency.

        I may sound harsh when I refer to Reagan’s Alzheimers but I resented Nancy Reagan when she was complaing about how hard it was to take care of Ronnie. Hell, the Reagans had enough money to pay for 24/7 help with him.

        Try being a couple of modest means and coping with Alzheimers – now that is some hard stuff to cope with.

      • But it wasn’t as pleasant for Nancy to be among the ‘betters’ as an unaccompanied woman.

  20. indypendent

    I wonder if the Obama haters realize that Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery also has veterans buried there?

    Are these Obama haters trying to say the veterans buried in Arlington are more important than those buried elsewhere in the country?

    Is that really what they are trying to say?

    • Soundbites is what they count on. Sadly, many Americans will only hear those soundbites and never even wonder if there is a “rest of the story.” They simply don’t care enough about politics to listen to any more than those soundbites. Fox News feeds them and the hatred grows.

      • indypendent

        That’s why it is up to each and every one of us to do our own research – and to submit it to the local Opinion Line or blog about it.

        The truth has a way of getting out – and I suspect the younger generation has just about had it with all these hypocrits that do nothing but throw their hissy fits because someone dared to ruffle their bunched-up panties.

      • You are absolutely right on that, Indy! Those home-schooled kids who have been brainwashed and the ones who have never been outside their church are the only ones who are fooled!

  21. indypendent

    I honestly think Reagan was the worst president we have ever had – and that includes George W. Bush.

    Reagan was a gifted orator with a silver tongue. It is just too bad his tongue was forked.

    I think Reagan was not especially a smart or intelligent man. He had charisma in a Hollywood sort of style.

    I’ve often said Reagan was nothing but a Hollywood B-movie actor and he played second fiddle to a chimp named Bonzo. I honestly think we would have been better off with Bonzo in the White House for 8 years!

    • He could deliver lines. He was a trained actor. PERIOD! Don’t you wonder who was our president?

      • Should we be talking about how many years a bush has been moving us toward a corpocracy?

      • prairie pond

        Lee Atwood and Roger Ailes were the real presnits. And GHWB ran the spook ops and Darth Cheney ran the military.

        It was all very, um, surreal.

  22. prairie pond

    Oh, and dont forget David Stockman, the budget guru who brought us utter financial disaster.

  23. Republicans think Reagan was a great president. What does that tell you? 😉

  24. prairie pond

    “Obama is in a no-win situation with his critics – of all political stripes.”

    Perhaps if he had shown some spine in dealing with the wingnuts on health care, perhaps if he had shown some spine in dealing with Wall Street, perhaps if he had kept his promises on equality for lgbt people, and perhaps if he had made fewer campaign promises and kept the ones he made….

    ….people of “all political stripes” might be willing to cut him some slack on the pathetic federal response to this disaster. If he had shown some spine early on in holding BP accountable, and pushed for some quicker response, he’d get more slack.

    But as it is, he’s waited too long kissing BP ass just like he kissed asses of big pharma and the repukes on health care. Just like he kissed Goldman Sachs ass on financial reform.

    The repukes and wingnuts will NEVER cut him any slack. And thanks to his backhanded treatment of the people who wanted REAL health care reform, REAL finanical reform, and REAL repeal of DOMA and DADT, they wont cut him any slack either.

    He made his bed. Now he has to deal with it. And he’s got fewer friends every day.

  25. prairie pond

    Some of you might find this interesting. I stole it via DU. It’s called “I cant wait for barack obama to become president” by David Michael Green.