Illegal Immigration……………………


There are probably few topics that get more people hopping mad than the issue of illegal immigration. The recent “Stop and show me your papers!” law in Arizona has thrust the debate to center ice. There are critics of the law on both sides of the aisle, as well as supporters both red and blue.

Everyone, it seems, has a “solution” for the problem, some rational and some clearly idiotic. Estimates of the number of illegals in country range from official estimates of 10.8 – 12 million to insanely inflated totals of 30 million or more.

Solutions for dealing with those that are already here range from total amnesty to a mind-boggling round ’em up and bus them to Mexico, as if that were practical or all are Mexican nationals, for that matter.

Ideas regarding  border security include such thoughts as landmines, fences – real and virtual, machine gun nests, calling out the National Guard or the Army  and armed patrols of citizens.

There is no question that illegal immigration is a serious problem and it seems that damned near everyone has their own thoughts on the possible solutions.

These are mine……………………………………………………………………….

One, put some serious teeth into the penalties for knowingly hiring illegal workers. Teeth, as in “buckle-your-knees” jail time.

Two, provide a date certain by which those already in country,  for at least a year, can apply for and and receive for a Green Card without repercussion. At that time, they could begin the process of applying for citizenship under current rules.

Three, national ID cards, if there is a way to make them counterfeit proof.

Four, after that date certain, anyone found to be in country illegally would summarily deported to their country of origin.

Five, allow our president to use every option available to our military to protect our borders as he or she deems necessary.

Those are my thoughts. The pot is boiling and the lid is about to be blown off. What are your thoughts?

William Stephenson Clark


Filed under Crimes, Drug Wars, hate groups, Psychological Disorders, racism, Uncategorized

57 responses to “Illegal Immigration……………………

  1. WSClark

    The thread photo is of the Berlin Wall, circa 1980, and, yes it is a political comment.

  2. How does our country deal with the illegal who was brought in as a small child and doesn’t even know they are illegal until they’re older? They didn’t make the decision to enter illegally.

    The biggie for me is punishing employers who knowingly hire illegals. Shut ’em down! They’re using people to make themselves money and they are irresponsible citizens! Those employers are who created our country’s problems of illegal immigration.

    • WSClark

      The question concerning minor children is a good one, Fnord. In many cases, children are completely “Americanized” and would have no clue as to fitting in Mexican society. Some don’t even speak Spanish.

      (I am making a generalization concerning the country of origin.)

      I believe that those details could be worked out satisfactorily. Perhaps graduation from a US High School could be used as a stepping stone to citizenship.

      One thing is certain in my mind – families should not be split up due to immigration status.

  3. America shares a border with two countries. Canadians aren’t sneaking in illegally. Isn’t that because their country is a good place to live? Canada is a place where jobs are available and workers are able to provide for their families, laws are enforced and people are safe.

    With this in mind, what, if anything, can America do to help Mexico be a good place to live? Is America spending our money in the most effective ways to address the root of this problem?

    • indypendent

      One way to make Mexico a better place to live would be to get Americans to stop using the illegal drugs coming out of Mexico.

      Let’s face it – America has a huge drug problem and ‘Just Say No’ has not and will not work.

      As I understand it, alot of the violence on the border is due to the illegal drug trafficking and the drug cartels in the streets killing everything that moves.

  4. WSClark

    “With this in mind, what, if anything, can America do to help Mexico be a good place to live?”

    I used to think so, but no longer. Corruption has reached the highest levels of government in Mexico. The El Chapo Guzman drug cartel virtually owns the whole country. Guzman escaped from Mexican Federal prison ten years ago and has never been apprehended.

    How does a billionaire reside in Mexico without political cover? You can he sure, he is not hiding in a shack in Juarez.

    It is going to take a revolution in Mexico to change their culture.

    • Not to be argumentative, but the only difference between the corrupt Mexican government and the corrupt US one is who owns them. If drugs were legal, there would be no difference at all.

      I say legalize drugs. It’s time. What else has worked? Nothing. Those people who are going to do drugs are going to do them regardless. And the pharmaceutical companies have legally addicted millions of people already.

      I don’t think that the US can do anthing to make things better in Mexico. The last time we asked the question posed by fnord, what can the US do to make Mexico a better place to live, NAFTA was signed. It made things WORSE. There has been an increase in illegal immigration since NAFTA because a lot of farmers lost their livelihoods in Mexico because of NAFTA. I think we’ve done enough. I think we should stay out.

      I do agree that the most important thing that can be done is to heavily punish the companies that purposely brought illegals here in order to deflate the wage. Hit them hard and make grants available for average folks to start businesses in those industries to compete as a better corporate citizen.

      • indypendent

        You have made several excellent points.

        I like your idea of making grants available so people can start their own businesses.

        I wondered why that stategy was not used in the stimulus package that Obama pushed through. It seemed alot of money went right back to the same people that got us into this mess.

        I think the biggest threat to our country is the corporatization that we have allowed to happen. All these free market Republicans cannot seem to comprehend that there is no free market if a handful of corporations own everything.

      • “free market Republicans cannot seem to comprehend that there is no free market if a handful of corporations own everything.”

        You have hit the nail on the head. Try making this point to one of those conservative hard heads some time. If the response isn’t a personal attack, I would be interested to hear the defense.

  5. What we all know to be true is that Congress drags their feet on tackling this issue because it could effect their chances of reelection. No matter what is part of the solution somebody is gonna be disappointed. Maybe those somebodies vote…

    This is true of many issues!

    Would term limits have a positive effect on more effective government?

  6. bush the lesser started a war of choice in order to make Big Oil and Halliburton lots of money. Seems helping Mexicans fight for their country would have a positive effect for more people than fighting in Iraq. Maybe we help with a revolution?

    Me, the person who is the biggest pacifist you’ll ever meet, talking about war… ??

    • indypendent

      One thing for sure – we don’t need to be throwing millions of illegals back into that mess by deporting every brown-skinned person we find walking the streets in our country.

  7. indypendent

    As for employers knowingly hiring illegals for cheap labor, this has been a problem for many years.

    And I agree these people are irresponsible citizens but did you notice how quick Republicans were to defend the Wall Street fat cats and other fat cats for not paying their US taxes by using offshore banks?

    These same Republicans then turn around and scream they are being taxed too much.

    Which is it – do they hide their income in offshore banks or do they pay too much tax? – It cannot be both.

    To me, the similarity between the wealthy not paying their taxes and employers exploiting cheap labor is the same. Both of these folk are cheating their own country by reaping the benefits of living in our country but yet they feel they do not have to pay taxes for the privilege of living here.

    Bottom line – there are takers and givers in this world. At the moment, our country is full of too many takers.

  8. A national ID should be talked about seriously. When our SS numbers began being tied to everything we didn’t live in today’s world. We didn’t even know those numbers needed to be protected or think about them being counterfeited. Have we learned enough to make national IDs very secure?

    • indypendent

      When SS numbers can be stolen, why couldn’t national IDs?

      I don’t believe anything is so secure as to not be able to forge it in some way.

      But then when you bring up the issue of a national ID card, then the Religious Right will be climbing up your nose about that One World Government. But I wonder if the Religious Right Republians ever thought to wonder why it was George H.W. Bush first used the phrase ‘New World Order’? I think that is when all this Neo Conservative crap started to really move through our political system. Then Junior Bush carried their NeoCon baton for 8 years – and all to the delight of those same Religious Right who oppose One World Government.

    • WSClark

      “Have we learned enough to make national IDs very secure?”

      Our folding money is virtually counterfeit proof. Some of the same technology could be employed to secure a National ID card.

      The problem would be, what ID would be required to GET a National ID card?

      • indypendent

        That’s a good question. As we have seen from the birthers, just because you have a birth certificate that is authenticated by the state where you were born does not necessarily make it a fact.

        And who gets to decide exactly what is acceptable ID paperwork?

      • Why can’t we start immediately making birth certificates more counterfeit proof, using today’s technology? I know that only tackles those who aren’t yet born, but makes an end to what we have now.

    • I can’t believe that liberals are actually considering the idea of a national id card.
      I’ve got a better idea; why don’t we all just get chipped?

      I would refuse to carry a national id card. I don’t want my government keeping that close a tab on me. If you have a national card, when would you be required to show it? Is it better to hear “Papers, please?” or “Card, please?”

      Anyway, any papers or cards can be counterfeited. So does that take us back to the chips? Maybe every baby born in the US should be immediately microchipped to prove their citizenry???

      Is this still the USA?

      • indypendent

        I still think that anything we designed as foolproof papers could be counterfeited – given time.

        But even then – you’re right – is that really the USA we want to live in?

        What happened to our principle of freedom?

  9. indypendent

    Let’s just propose that we give amnesty to all the illegals currently in the country.

    I wonder how many of those illegals would still be employed at their current jobs if they were made legal?

    How much of an impact would giving amnesty really have on our economy?

  10. indypendent

    In all honesty, have you seen the campaign ad that John McCain made about his desire to finish the dang fence?

    Excuse me, but John McCain was in Congress when GWB and fellow lockstepping GOPPERS voted for that fence – so is McCain now blaming himself for not finishing the dang fence?

    Or is McCain doing his famous ‘flip-flopping’ now?

    I am a maverick – No, I was a maverick – No, I am a maverick – No, I was a maverick..


  11. McCain is desperate and has become ludicrous!

    It all fits together like a puzzle and effective change can’t stand alone, but must address ALL the issues. Education, health care, taxes, security, immigration, jobs, (and other issues) are all tied together. For example, drug abuse must be treated as the health issue it is. To bring effective treatment to those who need it we must provide health care paid for by taxes which will effectively address the security of our borders, immigration, jobs, education…

  12. WSClark

    “Or is McCain doing his famous ‘flip-flopping’ now?”

    John McCain – Reagan-like early stages.

  13. Maybe it all comes back to political ideologies. Me, a liberal, wants solutions that help people. The conservatives want solutions that help businesses.

    Where do we find the compromise that helps both? There is one! We will get there if we’re able to talk honestly without considering who will get the credit, who will win or lose. When we’re able to work together to throw out ALL the ideas and refine the best while discarding those found to be not as worthy we will accomplish good.

    Can we do that?

    • I’m pretty sure the conservatives think helping people will happen when you help businesses. I don’t think they’re cruel or unfeeling, they are as convinced of the effectiveness of their ideas as I am of mine.

      But we don’t talk and compromise because we might find out our enemy has a great idea that we never thought about.

      How do we become less than enemies?

    • We could become less than enemies if we learned to give credit where credit is due! If we were able to acknowledge the successes of an idea different than ours instead of always looking for the failures. Too often stuff is made up so successes are made to look like failures!

  14. tosmarttobegop

    I do not have the solution and to relate what I have seen and learned would take far too long on the subject.

    Deporting? I have been there when ICE brought in bus loads, talked to the agents and heard the problem and logistics of it. Starting at the Canadian border, stopping at every jail that is housing illegals and driving through the country. Finally arriving at the Mexico border.

    Watching as the illegals walk back into Mexico, in one case an agent had to be in Washington D.C. the following morning.

    He boarded a flight and because he was armed they knew who he was and whom he worked for.

    Riding in coach. Halfway through the flight he was approached by a stewardess.

    There were a couple of passengers in first class who did not speak English and wanted something?

    He walked to first class and immediately recognized them as two of the illegals he had watched walk across the Mexican border!

    Quite a problem and it adds to it that many of the Americans who have a legal right to be here.
    Also have held onto many of the same attributes that would be a telling sign of a illegal alien.

    Their ways and speak are the same, speaking English is not a good indicator.

    IN fact I have met many illegals that spoke better English then native born do.

    There is quite a bias in this too, an illegal from Europe could live and work here for decades and not one thought that they are illegal.

    Skin color is everything here and often allows for excuses that are not given to others of a darker color.

    A trend I noticed that use to be the accepted excuse for allowing the illegals to stay is no longer true.

    It was said that the illegals were doing the jobs that no American wanted to do.
    I noticed that more and more the illegals are doing jobs that were thought to be higher skilled and educated.

    Electricians, skill carpentry and the likes are more and more being done by those who are illegals.

    Part of that could be that such employment is not great enough to hold them in Mexico?

    • Mexicans doing jobs that Americans would not was pure propaganda. An excuse for what big business had done, which was to ACTIVELY recruit Mexican labor in MEXICAN NEWSPAPERS.

      There is no job an American won’t do. I know trashmen, lawn servicemen, painters, drywallers, roofers, etc, etc, etc. These are American men trying hard to hang on to jobs that pay less every day. The reason these jobs pay less is because corporations purposefully recruited illegal immigrants to come and take those jobs at less than prevailing wage. They have systems all set up so that they can claim they didn’t know the workers were illegal in case they get caught. Meanwhile, the American guy can’t make what he used to because the illegals will do it at half the price. So he has to find a new profession–as many have. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t do the job, it means he COULDNT do the job for the meager salary that the corporate bastards had whittled it down to.

      And then they have the balls to accuse Americans of not being willing to do the job. Disgusting excuses for human beings. I say we should deport THEM to Mexico. I’m sure they would find good work in a criminal enterprise.

  15. President Obama recently announced he wanted to change the way we address our country’s drug problem and make it a health issue. I don’t think anything has actually changed since he made that statement.

    But IF we were to help our country’s addicted wouldn’t that have a negative impact on those who push drugs, those who arrange for drugs to be brought into our country?

    And wouldn’t that possibly impact the Mexican drug cartels?

    • indypendent

      Our War on Drugs has produced as much success as our War on Poverty – IMHO.

      Just the mention of legalizing marijuana will bring down the fire and brimstone from the Fundies on your head.

      But the illegal drug problem is only the tip of the iceberg when you consider the legal drug problem we have in this country.

      We are a society that has been sold the marketing idea that in order to solve any problem we have – we should just ‘pop a pill’.

      There are pills to make you happy, more sociable, able to have sex at just the right moment, to make you less tired, to make you sleep, etc.

      There is a pill for every thing except how to know not start taking the damn pills in the first place!

      I’m not saying all drugs are bad for us – there are some life-saving drugs and we should all be thankful we do.

      But it seems like we are all pushing the legal drugs that can cause just as much problem as the illegal drugs while at the same time, the illegal drugs are somehow immoral?

      The drugs are not the problem – it is how they are used.

      I was watching a show on the History Channel last night. It was the Pawn Stars show. Someone had brought in a 1930’s Coca Cola cooler. There are often facts given about whatever the item is being featured – and I did not know that when Coca Cola was first sold – there was cocaine in it. Did you know that?

      So, how was it that cocaine was okay to put in Coca Cola back then but now cocaine is so evil?

      BTW – Hemp was a major crop in our Founding Fathers’ time but now marijuana is the evil one?

  16. Remember when President Obama responded to the charges that he was wasting time on health care reform when the economy and jobs were the important issue? His response was that health care reform was an important part of improving our economy. He was right! Immigration isn’t a stand alone issue either. Many intertwined issues must be addressed in order to make immigration reform effective. We need a lot more than a band aid.

  17. indypendent

    fnord brought up the distinction between liberals and conservatives in that one group believes in helping people and the other group believes in helping business.

    I remember my childhood (50’s and 60’s). There were not as many big corporations back then. We did not have the Walmart as the main choice in our shopping. As for grocery stores, we had the larger stores but there were alot of small Mom and Pop stores, as well.

    Our restaurants were not corporations. Our hospitals and doctors were not corporate owned. And one major thing – I don’t think our media was known to be corporate owned.

    Now add to this fact that alot of corporations are now parent corporations of different named businesses – but they are all still a part of the parent corporation.

    In reality, we Americans boast about our free market stance but in reality – are we really all that free when a few corporations own everything and buy off our politicians?

  18. indypendent

    While I am all for fixing the illegal immigration problem, I think the Arizona law is not the correct way to go about achieving that goal.

    In fact, I suspect the Arizona law is nothing more than red meat being thrown out by Republican politicians to keep their supporters coming to the voters booth and marking the appropriate ‘R’ boxes.

    And that is what angers me the most.

    • I agree completely that Arizona’s new law is no solution, Indy!

      How long do you think it will take for most to have the papers they’ll be asked to show? Not long, I suspect. They don’t all work for places that don’t ask for or require proper documentation, so many of them already have the papers!

      Our government entities don’t talk to one another — social security doesn’t talk to IRS who doesn’t talk to INS who doesn’t talk to individual states…

      Think about all the places we are forced to use our SS # — enough to make all of us very vulnerable. And if we aren’t employed, don’t file taxes (my Mom doesn’t and isn’t required to), then someone else could use our SS # for those purposes. Now, my Mom does draw social security retirement benefits and is on Medicare. If the IRS and SS were talking a red flag would be raised if Mom’s number was being used for employment and her legit benefits.

      You can’t open a bank account without giving your SS #, get a job, file tax forms, sometimes you can’t get phone service or credit without providing your SS #.

      • indypendent

        You made an excellent point about government agencies not talking between themselves and alot of these stolen SS #’s would be caught that way.

        Wasn’t that a factor in the 9/11 Commission’s finidng – that government agencies were not talking between themselves and that was a major problem in our not connecting the dots for the worst terrorist attack on our country’s soil?

        And here we sit with the same problem and still nothing is being done about it.

        I heard someone say that if the US Dept of Agriculture could track the birth of a cow through to their trip to slaughterhouse – why can’t we keep track of whose SS# is being used and for what purpose? And if that number is being used twice and diffferent regions of the country – that should be a bright red flag to everyone!

      • I can understand how much work it would have been in the days before computers, but with our technology of today I don’t have any explanation for why this isn’t happening.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        Richard Nixon; Watergate; Enemies List; Therin lies the answer to your question, fnord and indy. May this be changed? Yes, if the Congress and Administration reach agreement.

        1) Who watches the “watchers”?
        2) How costly will a clean up of the Social Security Number database be (while it is fairly accurate, the error rate is over 6%, IIRC, too high for the uses you envision).
        3) What safeguards will be present to avoid
        unauthorized access/ use (or use of these cross-
        checks for nefarious purposes) given some of the past problems and current issues abounding over identity theft, etc.
        4) What will be the cost for new hardware and software to link these data, and what will be the costs in upgrading same over time?

        Not trying to discourage the thought, just trying to point out a few considerations.

  19. WSClark

    “Did you know that?”

    Yep. I stopped drinking it when I found that there was no coke in it. ;-{(

    • indypendent

      As Paul Harvey used to say ….and now we know the rest of the story – LOL

      Seriously, when did our country start looking at certain drugs as evil when only years before, those same drugs were not considered evil?

      What changed society’s mind? Was it the churches, the health profession, or just some people saw a way to make more money off illegal drugs than if those same drugs were legal?

      Was that what changed our morality – the prospect of making more money off the stuff?

      I am just throwing out questions here.

      But I am of the opinion that we need more drug treatment not more prisons for drug offenders.

      But for the drug dealers – I have no sympathy. They need to go to prison.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        The issue with cocaine in Coca-Cola (and, as I recall, in Dr. Pepper also), opium in various patent medicines, and such came to a head in the early 20th Century. Deaths, addictions, etc. were a part of it; the Prohibitionists a part of it; and, of course, “Reefer Madness”. 🙂

      • I have some intimate experience in this area. I know it is illegal to possess, use or sell drugs. I don’t think one is worse than another, though.

        When I was in high school, I smoked pot for a while. I smoked a lot of pot. I had to work for any money that I had; my parents did not believe in allowance. I started babysitting at age 11 and got a job as soon as I turned 16. I understand the value of hard work and did not want to blow a lot of hard-earned money on pot. In order to make it more economical, I bought in larger quantities than I needed and sold some off to interested friends so that whatever I was using cost as little to nothing as possible. I was a drug dealer. Was I dangerous? No; well, only to myself. Was I a bigger threat to society than the kids that were buying from me? No.

        So, I don’t believe that we should treat all drug dealers the same. I believe that if society were smart, they would start looking more at violent tendencies when considering jail time.

        Some of you may know that my ex-husband was a dealer at one time. It was after we separated, it was stupid and he apparently sold a lot of drugs. I am not defending him AT ALL. But he was never violent. He walked away from that and stopped using and got a job and tried to straighten up. It was at this time in his life when the government decided to finally catch up with him. They had been watching him, they knew who he was. He was not violent nor was he a threat to anyone besides himself. But they wanted to use him to get to someone else so they leaned on him. He wouldn’t play ball so they put him away for nine years.

        What good did it do? None. His brother just died and he missed the funeral. He has missed the birth of his granddaughter and watching his grandson grow up. Some might say he deserved as much, but others suffered as well. And who was saved? And how was the public served?

        This drug war is a load of f’ing crap. Big pharma has millions of people hooked on opiates legally and I don’t see any of them getting locked up or the doctors that prescribe to them. Those are ruined lives, too. Where’s the justice?

      • We here locally have great hope that a trial currently going on in federal courts will put Dr. Schneider and his wife away for a very long time! They ran a pill mill in Haysville (a suburb of Wichita), which killed lots of people, they committed insurance fraud and are charged with money laundering. They were watched a long time too but they weren’t gonna clean up their act — it was too profitable and they seem to have no conscious desire to do more than benefit themselves.

        Isn’t selling to cover your costs the logical way? How many people who use a drug regularly don’t sell? Few, I’m willing to bet!

        Yes, addiction is a health problem and needs to be treated instead of punished!

        And marijuana needs to be legalized!

  20. indypendent

    I’ve read some Republicans are saying they don’t want amnesty given to illegals because it is the Democrats way of acquiring millions of new supporters.

    Hmmmm, that’s funny. Even Ronald Reagan advocated for amnesty – didn’t he?

    Besides, if they are worried about illegals becoming Democrats, then perhaps the Republican Party needs to be doing more to open their Big Tent and welcome minorities into their midst rather than telling everyone they disagree with that they are not ‘real’ Americans if they do not adhere to strict loyalty pledges.

  21. Solutions to getting illegal immigration under control will take time. I don’t know how much time, but it could easily take many years to identify all the current SS #s that are being used by two people, to round up those who make their living off forged documents that use both made up and stolen numbers.

    Unless it is 100% effective immediately — and it won’t be — it will be called a failure by the ‘other side.’ We won’t be able to let one side claim a victory because that might mean our side will lose elections. Just like health care reform will take time for the benefits to be seen and there is much gnashing of teeth about what a horrible failure it is. It isn’t what it should be, it isn’t what we deserve but there are benefits in that new law. Trouble is, they take time to realize.

    If immigration reform begins under a Republican president or with a Republican-majority Congress, the Democrats will scream about it being a failure before it ever has a chance to work! Neither ‘side’ is innocent of this partisanship, and they all need for there to be a loser so they can feel like winners. It isn’t limited to our elected officials either! We’re all guilty.

    If we started using the knowledge and technology available to us today to stem the bleeding by making birth certificates that were less likely to be counterfeited, if we had cross checks between all the government agencies that use our SS #, it wouldn’t solve all the current problems. It would go a long way toward keeping today’s problems from multiplying in the future. But someone would be criticizing the fact that the problems didn’t go away, and call the reforms useless…

  22. I forgot to mention the unintended consequences that are a given with any piece of legislation and will be said to have been intentional by the ‘other side.’

  23. indypendent

    But before illegal immigration can really even be attempted to solve – we are going to have to somehow get this country back to people giving a damn about this country’s future as an ENTIRE nation – rather than what is in it for me?

    Our society as a whole has lost the innate feeling of being an American and knowing that it takes everyone’s participation to make our country successful.

    I remember when John F Kennedy said ‘ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country’.

    I’m afraid to say it – but I think we have too many Americans who have that saying backwards – they are not only asking what their country can do for them – they are outright demanding it.

  24. I am impressed with the ideas here. I did a post on the same subject, but from a different viewpoint. I didn’t want to get into the mechanics of controlling the illegal alien problem, but went with the absurdity of both Arizona laws.

  25. indypendent

    Paula – you’ve made me see a different perspective of the drug dealer situation.

    I guess when I say I have no sympathy for drug dealers, I am thinking of the typical stereotype of the kingpin hiding in the shadows just controlling everything and everybody.

    I realize that life is not just black and white (that is why I could never be a Fundamental Religious Rightie) and life can throw alot of gray areas at us.

    And you’re right – doctors have turned alot of their patients into legalized druggies and not one of them has been sent to prison (that might change with the Schneider case currently be heard in Wichita – but that case only became a case because of so many deaths – imho).

    Can I ask if your ex-husband got into dealing because of his ambition or because it was easy money?

    With our current economy being in the tank – I wonder how many people do turn to doing some job that they would never even consider if they had a job that paid their bills and fed their families?

    And the fact remains – no matter how bad the economy gets, there will always be those businesses that thrive – drugs, sex and alcohol.

    • I should probably not comment on why my ex husband got into drug dealing. I should probably not bring it up in a public forum at all, as it is really not my business. But, in an attempt to answer what I believe to be a sincere question, I will just tell you what he told me at the time:

      He could make more money and the state couldn’t take child support out of it.

      I don’t have a LOT of sympathy for my ex, but I do have some. I have as much as I would for any other person who wasn’t thinking straight and made a bad choice and faced a lot of bad situtations and consequences because of it.

      • indypendent

        I should not have asked – I apologize.

        But I was sincere in my wanting to know the reason.

        As I said, I think with this economy being so horrible there are people willing to do things that they would not normally do if they had other opportunities.

        But, your answer was what I was expecting to hear.

  26. indypendent

    fnord – I am watching the Schneider trial also and although I am convinced they ran a pill mill, I also think alot of other health care providers could be accused of doing the very same thing.

    Any health care provider could set up an insurance racket and make millions. Medicare patients are routinely the targets of all kinds of lab tests, physical therapy, podiatrist-provided toenail clipping and those electric scooters that all the rage now.

    The system is set up to abuse. And the trouble is, it takes so long to be caught, that the temptation to go ahead and do it is too great for some people.

    But that might change in the next few years. There are now auditors going back the previous 3 years and checking everything Medicare has paid. I’ve noticed some insurance companies are doing the same thing.

    • And for every doctor that is a blatant pill-pusher, there are ten more that are getting people hooked on pills without meaning to, without thinking about it.

      Our family physicians have turned into pushers for the drug industry. They don’t practice medicine-they prescribe it. Got a problem? Take a pill? Pill has side effects? Take two other pills.

      And so it goes.

      • indypendent

        In alot of cases, the drug manufacturer representatives come in to the doctor’s office, give out samples, bring a catered lunch and all is hunky-dory – for the drug manufacturer’s bottom line.