Thursday, 4/22/10, Public Square

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Filed under The Public Square

54 responses to “Thursday, 4/22/10, Public Square

  1. The group calls themselves, “The Christian Party,” and I recognize hate when I see it!

    http://fathersmanifesto.net/19th.htm

  2. tosmarttobegop

    Ahh, that is almost too out there to be a true site or idea.

    The reality is that no church could function with out the women there.
    The direction of the church would not be furthered or enacted.

    I love that blame the women for all the temptations as if “I could be a pious man if not for all those damn good looking women!”.

    OR, “man would not make stupid mistakes if not for a woman telling them what to do!”.

    I am a man and worse yet a human being therefore I am capable of brilliant thought and dumber then dirt thought too. It is not about gender it is about being human and subject to the pitfalls of being what I am.

    Men and women perceive things differently, neither is better at perception then the other.

    So the best idea is to have a combination of both to come to the right perception.

    Listen to both and find the reality of what ever the situation is.

  3. indypendent

    Everything was so jumbled together and it seemed to ramble without a point – except one major thread throughout – they don’t want women to have any power.

    But pray tell what does American girls in 12th grade not knowing physics have to do with their supposed rant?

    They blame Eve for giving into temptation but yet didn’t Adam give into temptation also when he took the apple from Eve?

    Ah, but it was Eve’s fault. Kinda like men don’t rape because they want to, the women force them to do it.

    Yeah, sure, I’ll be sure to write that one down. (heavy sarcasm).

    Seriously, this may be far-fetched and wacky but is it really any different than the Southern Baptists recently proudly boasting that they believe in women being submissive to their husbands?

    It’s all about control and nothing about being a Christian.

    • What is Christian about making women submissive? Did Jesus say that we should sit down, shut up and take our clothes off? Which book would I find that in???

      That’s one thing that I like about the Bahai faith; they are the only religion that I know of that stands on the principle that God created man and woman to be equal partners. Gotta respect that.

      • indypendent

        If I remember correctly, Jesus was the only one that stopped the stoning of the prostitute, wasn’t he?

      • WSClark

        “What is Christian about making women submissive?”

        I like my women to be submissive once in a while. After that, I have to be submissive.

        You know, “Honey it’s your turn to be on top!”

        Whoops! Will that get me banned?

      • Hardly!

        Seemed like a fair arrangement to me!

      • tosmarttobegop

        Larry Flint’s HUSTLER,
        I bought it for the articles!

  4. Yes, that site is almost too far out to be believable, but weak, intimidated, poor excuses for humans with those same thoughts are our coworkers, neighbors, elected officials…

    To that degree? Yes!

    That openly? No!

    • indypendent

      Reminds me of the subtle racism that everyone knows and sees but no one wants to put that spotlight on it.

  5. wicked

    It’s gotta be a white supremesist or skinhead site. Not only are women scum, but it wants blacks exiled, calls Jews vile, and a variety of other very typical rants by the insane.

    I wonder what ‘it’ has to say about the roll of women during WWII.

    The ancients knew the power of women, until a bunch of jealous men came along and claimed all for themselves.

    • indypendent

      King James anyone? Let’s see – King James had the Bible rewritten to suit his version, didn’t he?

      • Wasn’t every version of the Bible written to suit someone or some group–including the “original”? Who decided what books would be included in the bible and which would be banned? What was their reasoning? Scholars have studied these issues–I have only read about them. But anyone who calls themself a Christian should have some background in this area, as far as I’m concerned.

  6. indypendent

    I was just on the Wichita Eagle online site and was reading about the Domestic Violence Act that Gov Parkinson just signed.

    The article was also about Former Attorney Robert Stephan and his reaction to how long this law took to get passed

    Stephen related the story as to when he was at some meeting and was asking why people were more concerned about animal cruelty than domestic violence. Someone in the audience shouted out that dogs cannot defend themselves and women can.

    Mr. Stephan was quoted in the article as saying he thought this Domestic Violence law would be a cakewalk but was proven wrong because it took many, many years to break through this societal thinking that women can defend themselves.

    And having websites like this wacky one – and even using the label of Christian – may be adding to that perception that women have no rights and that is why our society is not all that bothered by domestic violence?

  7. indypendent

    I was watching the History Channel yesteday and the topic was the Antichrist.

    I did not realize the word antichrist was not written in the Bible but a few times.

    And it was written in the books that could be historically seen as an assessment on the way certain countries were perceived as powerful at that time.

    All the countries the Christians saw as threats and persecutors were called antichrist. So, to think there is one person in flesh and bones that will be the antichrist is simply not found in the historical text.

    Then they discussed the book of Revelations and the prophecies in there. For all the gloom and doom, it seems the writers were really talking about how Christians were perceived as being persecuted and this was how they felt they could rise up and regain power.

    Kinda makes you wonder then when you hear these Evangelical Christian television evangelists insinuate that Obama is the antichrist – doesn’t it?

    Also makes you wonder about exactly which version of the Bible are these Religious Righties reading?

    • wicked

      Easy answer, Indy. They re-write their own versions so they can read exactly what they want.

      The pick and choose religion.

      • indypendent

        Oh, so that’s why Phyllis Schafly and her son are rewriting the Bible for their fellow Religious Righties?

        Is this version where Jesus was always dressed in the Gucchi robes and ate only the finest fatted calf?

    • WSClark

      I saw the Antichrist at QT the other day. Yep, it’s true. He was gassing up his Harley chop. I could clearly see the Mark of the Beast tattooed on his neck.

      I asked him about the apocalypse and he said he was just too busy rebuilding a 74″ panhead right now to get into all that.

      • wicked

        Would that be 666?

        Apparently most Christians are unaware that within the last four or five years, it was discovered in the ancient texts that the number is actually 626. Yes, I’m serious. That means all those tattooes (tattoos?) mean absolutely nothing, except maybe a bunch of Beast wannabes. 🙂

      • Now there’s a drain on time AND money! Way to go AntiChrist. (Geez could I get a ride some time?)

      • I thought the scholarly debate was whether the antichrist symbol was 666 or 616. I had not heard of the 626, except that Mazda used to make one – the car is called simply “6” now – I have one, it is a nice car.

      • indypendent

        The question of the number 666 came up in that History Channel documentary I was watching.

        Their theory was that 666 was somehow connected to the Emperor Nero and this guy was some nasty piece of work.

        It seems Nero liked to use Christians as play things for the lions. They were even using Christians as lighting material for their burning torches at night – burning them alive.

        So, it would only make sense that 666 would be the number of the beast that would terrify and rule the world in the last days.

        This documentary was very interesting and made me think about alot of things.

        I recommend the History Channel – it has some really interesting stuff.

      • tosmarttobegop

        Obviously he had his priorities in order!

        I was thinking today how I wish I had a 74 super glide pan.

      • tosmarttobegop

        It could have been the same thing that Indy referenced on the History channel.

        As to 666, it is a possibility that the number is a reference to Nero who was the emperor at the time of the writing of Revelations. Nero was not too kind to the Jews and Christians of the time and there is something about 666 is a way of referring to Nero. Numeral code for how his full name is spelled or something like that?

  8. We need to work towards education so violence (physical, emotional and mental) against women can’t stay hidden in the shadows of shame and guilt, and isn’t acceptable to anyone! Women have the exact same rights as men, but in every area we aren’t allowed those! We still make about 76 cents on the dollar when compared to men, we aren’t trusted to make our own reproductive decisions, we’re called too emotional (and much worse), our physical attributes are both demeaned and highlighted in so-called polite conversation. We’re supposed to think it’s an endearment when ‘dear, honey, sweetheart,’ is added to a comment that is anything but endearing by a person who doesn’t hold us dear. We are held to a different moral standard than men.

    Every generation brings a brand new batch of women who learn equality hasn’t yet been won, and they go through their own form of blaming themselves, thinking problems they face aren’t anyone’s but their own, they think citing lack of gender equality is a copout and shows weakness, they feel guilty as charged. Women are supposed to have it made! So it would be ungrateful to point out what is overt sexism when we compare how it used to be, what our ancestors fought for and we now have.

    Yes, we’ve come a long ways, but the victory dance is still premature. We aren’t there yet!

    • One thing I’m always thankful for is how women are treated here at PPPs. It’s very refreshing after the place I used to blog! The gentlemen here treat us like we’re worth talking to, like we have opinions worth considering. In fact, they go overboard sometimes and treat us more special than we are. 😉

      • wicked

        Sorry, fnord, but I can never be treated more special than I am. 😉

        Seriously, thank you to all the regulars here of all orientations for being humans first.

      • indypendent

        I agree 100%. We do have some very nice men on this blog and we should appreciate them.

  9. wicked

    I hate to bring this up, but not all abused are women. There are female abusers.

    A good friend’s son was married to an abusive woman. He’s no wuss, but he was taught to never hit a girl/woman. So while she was throwing crystal bowls at him and hitting him, he was ducking and dodging. One night, he left their apartment, wearing nothing but his sox and boxers. No phone, no money, nothing. He found a phone booth where he was able to call his mom long distance. (I was at her house when he called, so I can verify this.) He returned to his apartment and called the police, who arrived later. They informed him that he had to be the abuser.

    He’s now married to a wonderful and non-abusive woman, and they have the cutest daughter.

  10. I know a man in that position right now! In fact, I’ve been wondering if there might be someone in a place of authority I might be able to talk to about this. The man has his own set of problems — alcoholism for starters and I suspect thinks so little of himself he probably thinks he deserves this treatment. It’s all part of the cycle. Anyway, it’s gone so far that SHE has called the police and accused him of abuse, he was taken off to jail, went through the court system… Now he has a record! No one believes him, everyone believes her.

    Any advice? I think he is in as dangerous a position as the many women who are victims. She could get carried away and his life could be in danger.

    • wicked

      I think police need to be trained better and learn not to jump to conclusions quite so quickly.

      I don’t have an answer, fnord. The friend’s son finally obtained a divorce. It was a bit more complicated, because she wasn’t a citizen, but here on an education visa and was trying to hold out until she could get her papers.

      Could he find a good lawyer and get a restraining order? If anyone–and I mean anyone–could testify to her abusive behavior, that would be a big plus. There are often others who suspect, if not actually see, what’s going on.

    • WSClark

      “Any advice?”

      I would give the same advise to him as I would (and have) to a woman – get the HELL out of there!

      That is for starters, everything else follows, but protect life and limb first.

      Nothing else has a higher priority.

      Years ago, I had a female friend that lived with her crackhead abusive boyfriend. She asked me for help, but wouldn’t follow my advice. She called one day and told me he was being abusive again.

      This man, for whatever reason (coward, like most abusers) was terrified of me. I drove down to her apartment, her daughter let me in, I took the perp by the arm (not so gently) and ran him out the front door. I changed the locks on her apartment and that was that.

  11. indypendent

    Yes, you’re right – men can be victims of domestic violence also and I have known of one man in that position in my lifetime. (I probably knew more, but was not privy to the actual facts).

    And I should have included that in my little rant but I was thinking about that crazy wacky website and got into that whole ‘women have no rights’ issue.

    When police are called for domestic violence – as I understand it – the police usually look for the man first because that is the most common. But in some instances, both the man and woman are taken in if they both threw punches.

    I knew of one woman whose son-in-law was hitting her, threatening her and while she was on the phone with 911 – he pulled the telephone jack out of the wall. Well, this woman got the upper hand with this POS and had him nailed to the wall when the police arrived. Guess who got hauled into jail? The woman did – even though she was on the phone screaming at 911 that he was hitting her and then the phone went dead.

    This woman had to go to anger management classes but the real threat was to her livelihood. She was a nurse and any conviction of domestic violence can be an end to her nursing license. Rather than fight the charge, her attorney advised her to plead to a lesser charge and face the consequences.

    You want to know what the fight was about? Her son-in-law did not like the fact that the woman told him he needed to get a job, find their own place to live and stop being a bum.

    Life is not fair.

    • wicked

      indy, there was nothing wrong with your rant. Abuse against women happens much, much more. I just wanted to mention that men are sometimes victims, too, just so we wouldn’t forget.

      As far as abused women are concerned, those of us born in the 40s and 50s and even the 60s were programmed by society in general to be humble and submissive, and to be happy in the role. We were expected to stay home and be the little woman. Jobs were limited to only a few “acceptable” types of employment. Men have ruled for centuries. Somewhere around 2000+ years? Religion has a HUGE role in this. That website is just one small bit of proof.

      • indypendent

        And it was no secret that some men regularly beat their wives and no one thought anything about it.

        I was disgusted one day while watching an old movie where the male star was telling a young man about to be married that he needed to start early with the belt if he wanted to keep control of his home.

        I even remember Andy Griffith from his Mayberry show saying something about sometimes the only thing a woman understands is a leg of lamb across her mouth.

        WTF?

        Was it really that pervasive in our society at that time?

        I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s but I guess my father was not into all that crap. But I do remember an uncle that would routinely beat his kids – with his wife’s permission.

        But that’s another issue.

  12. indypendent

    WS you could never be banned – you bring too much humor to our blog.

    I did notice that your little scenario was that you both had your time to be submissive.

    And isn’t that we women really want – to be equal?

  13. I think it happens more often than we might think that the police when on the scene with domestic violence, really can’t tell who the perpetrator was and they thus arrest and charge both members of the pair.

    • indypendent

      To be truthful with you, I’ve seen women who are more vicious when they are fighting than some men.

      Sometimes, though, when the police get there and arrest the man – the woman will get upset at the police and then jump on them wanting to fight.

      I’ve heard of that happening more than once also.

      Domestic violence is a complex issue and I just thank God I’ve never been in that situation.

      • tosmarttobegop

        IN general a rule of thumb is who ever has visible evidence of the violence is the victim.
        Unless the officer actually see the act, it happen to me one time.

        Called to a domestic and she was claiming that he had hit her. Holding her cheek to me and shouting see…see! I could not see any red or indication that she had been stuck.

        The dispatcher had been calling for me to check and see if I was OK?

        I was setting in the car talking to the dispatcher, when suddenly the woman just hauled off and hit the man in the head with her purse! He had moved to about ten feet of the patrol car and far away from her.

        No idea what all she had in that purse but it left a knot on his head and man oh man her family was in a uproar when I put her under arrest!

        That family and that woman caused many a interesting story.
        And one of those small town rumors, if the truth is not bad enough then make up a interesting lie!

        I actually got a lecture for arresting a woman for domestic violence from the chief and one of the city council members. In Oklahoma men can never be the victim, it is a insult to their manhood and to the sensibilities of people. Seriously!

  14. itolduso

    Many years ago, in a bar in San Francisco along the waterfront, I was witness to a man using his fists on a woman’s face. Being raised the way I was, that was unacceptable. I proceeded to stop the Man from using his fists again. As he and I were discussing which way his arm was going to move, the woman proceeded to try and benight me with a beer bottle for my saving her. Because of her self medication, she was a little slow. I removed myself from the target area, disentangled myself from the “gentleman” and left the bar. It was just plain weird to me

    • indypendent

      I give you credit for intervening and you clearly did the right thing.

      You cannot help someone that does not want to be helped.

  15. tosmarttobegop

    A few incidents comes to mind after reading some of the comments.

    The husband had cancer and there was little debate on if he might recover.
    But we (the P.D. in Okla) would get a call one way or another.
    If the husband was seeming to finally be sir-coming to the cancer the wife would be loving and protest her love for him. But the neighbors would call us worrying that she was not taking very good care of him.

    If he seem to be in remission then she would call us or the neighbors would.
    She wanted him kick out and demanding a divorce or the neighbors would call after hearing her berating him and the sounds of things breaking.

    The last time I was the one on duty when she called and after arriving seeing the old man crying in his wheel chair and her acting like a harpy. well I did not hold back on my opinion of such a person who only wanted his money and treated a deadly ill human being like trash.

    She of course objected to what I said and she being the wounded creature in all this did not think I would arrest her for making a false call.
    *****
    Again in OKLA, the wife was getting a divorce and had a restraining order against her future ex-husband.

    To make matters worse he was self employed as a mechanic and his shop was on the other side of the lot the house set on.

    One night I was called to the Chief’s house and the wife was there. Stating she wanted an officer to come with her to get some more of her stuff from the house and the husband was working in the shop.

    OK here come the weird stuff, we got there and all she did was walk around inside the house.

    Never pick a thing up and finally when outside.

    She saw her husband standing in the doorway of the shop and shout at him to come here.

    The husband was crying and resisting the call for him.

    Finally he did start shuffling toward her, she kept shouting at him and demanding that he hurry.

    Finally after he crossed the imaginary line where a 100 feet would have been.
    She reached into her coat and drew a folded piece of paper out like a sword and pointed it at him.

    Informing me that it was the restraining order and he had just violated it and she wanted him arrested!

    I refused and add that it was not him who violated the order and it would not be right for him to suffer for her anger.

    I was called into the Police department the following morning, the chief was on the phone with the wife’s attorney. The chief excused himself from the phone and told me what they had been talking about and how I was in trouble and the attorney was going to the judge to have me arrested.

    He then asked me if I had refused to arrest the husband for violating the order?

    I explained to the chief what happen and in deed I had refused.

    The chief smiled and asked me if I was willing to tell the attorney what I had just said happened?

    I did and after the attorney ranted at me for a about two minutes I asked if he was quite through?

    I then told him of the event and he finally asked if that is what I would tell the judge?

    When I said it was he said he needed to talk with his client and that was that!
    *****
    It never has made sense to me whether it is the man or woman who stay with the abuser and yes the abuser comes in both sexes.

    Loving someone is understanding and forgive and forget is true.

    But not when it comes to abuses, love has nothing to do with abuse it is not like forgetting to put the seat down on the toilet.

    It is not like overdrawing the check book abuse it is hatred and the only thing the abuser see the victim as is a target of the hatred.

    • indypendent

      Any kind of abuse is about control – nothing else.

      Maybe some cowardice and self-hatred on the abuser’s part?