Thursday, 3/25/10, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

38 responses to “Thursday, 3/25/10, Public Square

    • In watching the videos on that page, I was disgusted by the laughable and pathetic tactic that the Republican Party is taking on this issue. Here it is, in a nutshell:

      Obama promised to reach across the aisle, he promised to do things in a bi-partisan way, and because we didn’t get our way on this bill, it is not bi-partisan, but a heavy-handed p0wer grab by the Democratic Party to force healthcare reform on the American People.

      There are so many things wrong with that stance and that statement that it would take all day to list them.

      The truth is that the American people were overwhelmingly behind healthcare reform. It was only when the Republican Party, with the help of the Tea Party Movement, began to its campaign of propaganda and lies that the American people started questioning reform. The truth is that the Republican Party was never offered any language or any bill that contained meaningful reform that would have solved the problems with the health care system in this country. Obama reached across the aisle–he had his hand slapped and was spit on. Yeah, that’s constructive, Republican Party. And the truth is that the Democratic majority didn’t force health care reform on the American citizenry (I won’t even go into the fact that there is little reform contained in the bill–it was gutted to obtain the votes of tiny-brained fraidy cats), they forced health care reform on the Republican Party.

      And now the babies are crying. My father used to say, “If you don’t stop that crying, I’ll give you something to cry about.” Maybe the bill should be amended to include the public option that was cut to capitulate to these whiners in the beginning.

      • wicked

        My father used to say, “If you don’t stop that crying, I’ll give you something to cry about.”

        My mother used to say the same. Hell, I even said it to my kids when pushed to the limit. And the line has been crossed by the Republicans in this case. They’re pathetic.

  1. Zippy said it and it bears repeating —

    “…those thugs are not going to rule by intimidation.”

  2. WSClark

    One hundred years – this reform bill has taken one hundreds to be passed. Like any legislation that has a great social impact, this is a start, the beginning of the beginning of you will. This is just the first major victory in what will be a long war, with the ultimate victory being a single payer system.

    After the Civil War, it took one hundred years to effectively end segregation and institutionalized discrimination. The effects of the legislation that accomplished that great victory are still being felt by the Democratic Party, but no one would argue that it wasn’t worth the sacrifice.

    This country changes very slowly. As we have seen in the health care debate, virulent racism still rears it’s ugly head at times. Class warfare is still prevalent in our so-called modern society.

    When progressives rightly moan and groan that the bill as passed was not everything we wanted, we need to remind ourselves that this reform was not accomplished in fourteen months – it took one hundred years.

    It may take another one hundred years before we get it completely right.

    • It’s a start and I’ve never seen anything finish that wasn’t first started.

    • I wish I had your trust in politicians. As far as I can tell from the behind the scenes stuff that I have heard, it appears to me that the health care industrialists got exactly what they wanted from this bill and the people didn’t get anything. The government basically said, “look, we’re going to do this health care reform thing because we have the people on board now. We’ll give you want you want (mandatory insurance), but you have to throw us some bones, here. You lose the recission and pre-existing conditions policies and we’ll make sure you get the mandatory insurance thing.”

      Believe me, the hospital associations and doctor associations and the insurance companies are very happy with what this bill does and DOESN’T do. Very happy indeed.

      I wish I could see how expanding the private insurance rolls is going to turn into universal health care with regulated costs. I just don’t see how we get THERE from HERE. But, you just might be right, WS. Time will tell.

      • Zippy

        The good—and bad–news is that we have 3 years to shine a line on some on the uglier provisions.

        I don’t trust politicians. Change comes, kicking and screaming, from the bottom up, but I also understand the Washington circus.

        What was passed at least confirms the legitimacy of the very idea–reform–in the USA, and drives the wingnuts over the edge. Their own rhetoric may, ironically, help in the future, for if it’s actually “government control” that is so horrible, and yet the sky doesn’t fall, why not, say, actual single-payer? If there’s no difference and all.

        Where we go from here is going to be a tough road but, in this case, even corporate incrementalism which sends the “wrong” message is a step forward.

        And some real people will get some real help.

      • indypendent

        I read on another blog that if Republicans push this health care reform bill to the Courts, the only thing that might be struck down would be the mandatory purchasing of insurance.

        This particular blogger then went on to say that perhaps that is what Obama and Pelosi are betting on. If the only part of this health care reform bill that gets tossed out is the mandatory purchasing requirement – then all those guaranteed new customers for the health insurance companies will go up in smoke.

        So when the Republicans start to bitch about that – that is when the real health care reform takes place in the form of public option.

        I had never thought about that – but it is something only time will tell.

  3. indypendent

    I had to laugh when Republicans were saying that Democrats rammed this health care bill through with all the backroom deals and arm twisting.

    That is the pot calling the kettle black. I remember several backroom deals in the Bush Administration and Reagan Administration. The only difference was – the end result was not something that benefit all Americans – only those precious few wealthy, politically connected people benefitted from Bush and Reagan.

    If Republicans would have taken Obama’s invitation to join him in a bipartisan way and hammer out the health care reform bill together – Republicans would have been included in those political maneuverings and just perhaps could have brought about some much needed health care reform – of which both parties have been saying they wanted for years.

    • As long as the members of the Republican Party and its citizen thugs see compromise as a weakness, they can’t work WITH anyone and they won’t be contributing to getting anything done. I have had enough of progressives and liberals lecturing me on compromise–you can’t compromise unless both sides are willing to bend.

      As long as Democrats have the majority, they need to get things done, and if that means “ramming it through” then that is what must be done for the good of the country. Funny, that is exactly what the Republicans said and did when Bush was in office. How convenient are their memories.

    • wicked

      If Republicans would have taken Obama’s invitation to join him in a bipartisan way and hammer out the health care reform bill together –

      Ah, but if they’d done that, they wouldn’t get the glory. They don’t want to share the glory, only have it all. And now that they’ve convinced the sheep that they are above reproach and are saving (fleecing) them, they believe they can continue to do and say whatever they want.

      Politics in America. You can’t get much worse.

  4. tosmarttobegop

    Eric Cantor (R) the Minority whip in Congress had a shot fired at his Campaign office last night.

    • indypendent

      I don’t care what side of the political game you’re on, no one needs to have shots fired at their offices.

      Sad to say, with an act of violence like this, it probably will never be solved. And with the level of all the violence being done on the streets today, shots being fired at a campaign office is probably not very high on the priority list for the police to actually put manpower on to solve.

      I am beginning to feel like a pessimist.

      When is enough going to be enough?

    • Perhaps the proper reply to this is:

      “Well there are a lot of angry Americans out there and they are angry that the health care bill did not contain a public option and they are angry that the Republicans are obstructing progress at every turn and are not listening to the American people, but violence and threats are unacceptable. Let’s take that anger and go out and register people to vote…”

      • indypendent

        You’re right Paula. Our democracy is based on our right to vote.

        Maybe that is the silver lining in all this violence? It might spur some Americans who are not currently involved in politics to become involved and vote in the future.

  5. indypendent

    I am afraid history is about to repeat itself if we do not get a handle on all this crap. I remember Kennedy’s assassination and it was not a good time. Rather than bringing our country together, it just made for more problems.

    If you remember, Lyndon Johnson became president after Kennedy’s death and pushed the Civil Rights Act through. Then those Southern Democrats all turned into today’s Rabid Republicans.

    History does have a way of repeating itself.

  6. tosmarttobegop

    The FBI is involved in investigating all these acts. I would not be surprised if attempting to intimidate a Federal official is a Federal crime.

  7. indypendent

    This is being reported on the CNN website:

    Washington (CNN) — Rep. Eric Cantor, the No. 2 Republican in the House of Representatives, said Thursday that a bullet had been fired through a window at his district office in Richmond, Virginia. He also said he had received threatening messages.

    He said he would not publicly release the messages out of concern that doing so would only incite further violence.

    He also accused Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine and Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland — a member of the Democratic House leadership — of “fanning the flames” of violence by using threats that have been made against Democratic members “as political weapons.”

    “Enough is enough,” Cantor said. “It has to stop.”

    Democratic National Committee spokesman Brad Woodhouse hit back against Cantor’s claims.

    “We disagree with the charge made by Rep. Cantor today that Democrats are using acts of violence for political gain,” he said. “Let’s be clear: Calling on Republican leaders who have contributed in part to this anger by wildly mischaracterizing the substance and motives of health reform to condemn these acts is entirely appropriate.”

    I agree with Cantor that is enough is enough. But I have to wonder why Mr. Cantor is not addressing his outrage to Republicans, as well as accusing the Democratic Party leaders of fanning the flames?

    There is more to this story – but I only copied the first part of the article to post here.

    I wonder why Mr. Cantor does not feel the need to share the threatening messages with the public? If they did come from Democrats, then let the chips fall where they may. Or did they come from somewhere else?

    • indypendent

      Or, perhaps, there were no messages?

    • Sounds Rovian to me–create an “occurence” against one of your own to both allay suspicions about which side is condoning the violence and at the same time turn it around and blame the victims for the violent atmosphere that you created.

      How has anyone used the threats they have received as weapons? By merely acknowledging that they have been threatened–this is somehow a weapon against the Republicans?

      How so, Mr. Cantor? Methinks thou dost protest too much.

      • indypendent

        Nothing would surprise me at this point.

      • indypendent

        But, if the FBI does find out that Democrats were behind the shooting at Cantor’s office, then let the justice system handle it.

        But the same goes for the violence at the Democratic offices – if it is found to be Republicans that did the violence, then let the justice system handle it.

        Violence is not the answer on both sides!

  8. indypendent

    A thought just struck me – how did we as a country get to this point in time where violence breaks out because the president pushed his party into passing a bill in order that all Americans could have health care insurance?

    Doesn’t that just boggle your mind?

    Just having health care insurance now is a reason for people to be threatened?

    Pitiful – just pitiful.

  9. tosmarttobegop

    Doesn’t that just boggle your mind?

    my mind was boggle when I finally saw the extent of how partisanship is so blinding.

    • indypendent

      And we thought the Republican hatred onslaught against Bill Clinton was rough.

      Is there any level that is too low for some of these Rabid Republicans?

  10. David B

    Republican Tent ain’t big enough to include Frum:

    Former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum has resigned from the right-wing American Enterprise Institute, Frum announced on his Web site Thursday afternoon — a move which suggests the conservative movement has cut ties with Frum over the straight talk he has been providing all week.

    • indypendent

      Or maybe Frum cut ties with them?

      I swear, these Rabid Republicans would step over their dead mother to get what they want. And this is the Party of Morals?

  11. wicked

    Somebody update me, if possible. My daughter called and mentioned during the conversation that changes had been made to the bill and it had gone back to congress, where it was voted down. Apparently dem house members feared physical repurcussions and voted against. I thought it had gone to the Senate.

    I didn’t find a damn thing online about this. And my son-in-law sometimes doesn’t know what he’s talking about. (He tried to tell me that Hanukkah is the Jewish religion’s celebration of the birth of Christ. WTF?????)

    • indypendent

      There was debate about the fix-it bill that goes with the health care reform bill – but as I understand it, this is just for those few things that still needed to be hammered out.

      And the Republicans are doing their stalling tactics to delay anything.

      • wicked

        Color me not surprised, but this is still a “whew” moment.

        Thanks, indy. I’ve been working and shut off everything. There’s this basketball game tonight that I don’t want to miss, so I have less time and still the same stuff to do.

  12. indypendent

    I would like to ,mention an historic date that is coming up soon – April 19th.

    This is a date that I hope history does not repeat itself.

    With all these shootings, brick throwing, threats and just downright stupidity going on – I just hope that nothing will happen on this April 19th.

    It is the anniversay date of the Waco incident and Oklahoma City bombing.

    It is also the date of some anti-government meeting in Virginia that the Alabama man who encouraged everyone to go throw those bricks was advertising.

    Nothing is more dangerous than irrational people armed to the teeth with guns thinking that they, and only they, are the true patriotic Americans.

    I just wish George Washington and the other Founding Fathers could come alive for one day and start smacking some of these people down.

    The Founding Fathers gave us the Constitution and yet some of us still think that only ‘certain people’ are guaranteed those rights.

    • indypendent

      Might I add – the Oklahoma City Bombing domestic terrorist was an angry white male.

      I’m not saying all angry white males are terrorists but Timothy McVeigh certainly was. In fact, McVeigh was the picture perfect example of a ‘true patriotic American’.

      But he was very much misguided in his thinking and he took that irrational thinking into action.

      Have we learned nothing from that dark chapter in our history?

    • wicked

      It was also the date of my senior prom. It ranks right down there with the others mentioned.

      Those Rs do like to choose historic moments.

      Waco was the fault of David Koresh. The arrival of the ATF was exacerbated by the arrival of the FBI, but the FBI had learned their lesson after Ruby Ridge. The Davidians set fire to the complex. Granted, it was the siege that led to this, but there were options offered but refused.

      My Texas friend’s mother knew Koresh’s mother. (That’s not his real name.)

      • indypendent

        David Koresh was the person at fault for the Waco disaster but trying telling that fact to a group of Rabid Republicans.