Monday, 3/22/10, Public Square


Filed under The Public Square

37 responses to “Monday, 3/22/10, Public Square

  1. fnord

    Crooks and Liars has assembled this handy list of immediate changes.

    Ten immediate benefits of HCR

    Here are ten benefits which come online within six months of the President’s signature on the health care bill:

    1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

    2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions

    3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage

    4. Free preventative care for all

    5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.

    6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.

    7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.

    8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.

    9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.

    10. AND no more rescissions. Effective immediately, you can’t lose your insurance because you get sick.

    • tosmarttobegop

      The list you put up Fnord is what I am calling the superficial benefits from the bill.

      And has some Faustian deals in it, one being the high risk pool for insurance.

      If I asked you to bet on a car race and on the team that only drives cars they have pulled out of the junk yard to race as is. Would you do it?

      No one is really wanting to bet on making money off such a pool.
      It will take some financial assurances to get any company to take on this pool.
      Everyone will have to pay that company to take that pool on and back to it costing more then anyone can afford.

      Extending children on their parents insurance is only good if it is needed due to accident or illness.

      AND that is the golden group that the insurance wanted to begin with.
      Seldom makes a claim and are in general the healthiest i.e. free money.

      I am not going to go through the list and point out the downfall or the superficial and what is meaningless.

      Here is the real problem for the Democratic, most of what would be the real impacts are not going to occur till after the next elections. Saying this bill is not going to benefit the party when it will need it most.

      It will end up like attending the funeral of someone that no one said much good about.

      But after they are dead then people will say how great a guy they were!

      Too late for them to know or hear about how people are thinking about them.

      The Republican will have gained and those left will not be able to fix more or do more good.

      • fnord

        Maybe by the time some of what’s in this bill is scheduled to take effect, we can be where we should be, where we deserve — single payer!

        When our oldest son was in college it cost us dearly to keep him insured. By the time he became a PhD candidate he was given health and dental coverage in exchange for working in a professor’s lab and teaching some undergrad classes. Keeping kids on your policy is a HUGE benefit for families! And, if Mom and Dad lose their coverage for whatever reason they will have those ‘exchanges’ to shop at and then not only their kids but the adults too will be accepted with any pre-existing conditions there may be.

  2. fnord

    Who Yelled ‘Baby-Killer’ at Stupak?

    In a moment more shocking than Rep. Joe Wilson’s “You lie!” outburst during President Obama’s speech, an unknown person reportedly yelled “Baby-killer” when anti-abortion Democratic Rep. Bart Stupak took the House floor to discuss the health-care reform bill Sunday night. Stupak spoke against the motion to recommit his own amendment to prevent federal funding of abortion, since he already secured a promise of an executive order from Obama on the issue. Democratic pro-life Rep. Dale Kildee told Talking Points Memo, “It was disgusting… The person should be censured,” noting he believed the culprit to be a member of the House. Though rumor had it that the screamer was Republican Rep. John Campbell, he adamantly denied the assertion. “It was in my area. I thought it was a Southern accent,” Campbell said, adding that some Republicans reportedly recognized the voice but wouldn’t point fingers. “Californians are in one row, Texans sit behind us. I am being told it’s a Texan. The people who know won’t give it up.”

    • iggydonnelly

      I heard a story on NPR, and I cannot find it now, about how the mechanisms for federal funding for abortion are already in place and will continue despite what anyone says, or promises, etc.

      Did anyone else hear that story or have more information?

      • tosmarttobegop

        Funny but I had tried to find exactly what Stupak was talking about.

        It is supposedly a round about, that if you get aid you can then get the insurance that will cover abortion.
        Though it is not directly, kind of like by getting the Federal aid that will free up other money to get an abortion.

        So in a left handed sense because you are getting the aid then it is the Federal aid that has enabled you to get the insurance to cover an abortion.

        That and returning to the old calling it a DNC route.

        But honestly I am not sure exactly what they are talking about?

      • fnord

        The way I understand it, it is as you said. If a woman is given government help to purchase her health insurance and the policy she buys includes abortion coverage, then she has an abortion which the insurance covers that was bought at least partially with government money…

        They want abortion coverage to be like a rider and the woman who buys insurance with government help can only buy the basic policy. If she chooses to add that rider she uses her own funds.

        The Republicans, who don’t want to regulate businesses [sic], want to tell the insurance companies how their policies should be offered. 🙂

        I’ve been wrong often in the past and will be wrong many times more, so this is only my understanding, I’m not presenting it as undisputed fact!

      • fnord

        Actually they want to control women and their reproductive health! Because ya know women can’t be trusted to make those decisions, only men can do that!


  3. fnord

    I know the party of old white men doesn’t put much stock in women but, one lesson the Republicans should take from this is to never underestimate the strength of Nancy Pelosi! She put the team on her shoulders and carried them across the finish line. I think she’ll work quickly and tirelessly to improve this beginning.

  4. fnord

    10 Power Food Combos

    Research shows certain foods suddenly become healthier when eaten in combination. From spinach and beets to red wine and apples, here are 10 pairings that boost each other’s benefits.

  5. WSClark

    Dang, I woke up this morning and the sun was shining, no earthquakes, tornado’s, tsunami’s, fire and destruction raining down from the Heavens.

    I guess passing health care reform wasn’t the end of the world.

    • fnord


      It’s a beautiful day!

      • WSClark

        I have an appointment with a young lady, born in 1969. She’s beautiful. Nice front end, spacious back end, room for two.

        She blue and white.

        She’s my new old 1969 Ford F100 Ranger pick up and she’s getting a new carburetor today, along with a new choke cable. If time permits, she’ll also get a complete tune up with new plug wire, cap, points and rotor.

        I am so damned old that I remember how to set points and I still have my feeler gauges from 1971.

        Damn, this is going to be a good day!

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        That makes (at least) two of us who: remember how to set points; and, who retain feeler guages in possession.

        Have a good day.

  6. tosmarttobegop

    I have a 1983 F-150 it too has a straight six, also carb problem.
    The history of the truck is that their father took his teens to the local salvage.
    Told the teen to pick out what they wanted and then had the car or truck hauled home.
    Dad would supervise and instruct with the teen did the work to get the vehicle running and drivable.

    The result of the daughter’s work is my now truck, it has the seats out of a cj5.
    The Problem? rather then rebuild the carb then monkey rigged a carb from a different engine.
    Monkey rigged the automatic choke into a manual choke that does not work well.

    I need to hunt up the right carb and rebuild it along with fix the choke.
    Can do but now the kicker problem, there is some problem that causes the battery to drain in less then 24 hours.

    I finally took the battery out since too many times being drained dried ruins the battery.

    But to one problem, the dad was a real shade tree mechanic and knew how to short-cut rather then to fix right. I on the other hand can screw up changing oil!

  7. tosmarttobegop

    As to Stupak it falls to you is either one of us or against us!

    It is all or nothing for the pro-life I do not think it was a Congressman who yelled baby killer.

    But they certainly did not do anything to stop it or renounce it.

    I see a lot of the use and the phrase “Deniable accountability” it was not me or the party it was someone else who did it! Though it was to their benefit and something they wanted to do.

    • fnord

      It wasn’t a woman who yelled it!

      a woman, her doctor and her god

      We really can be trusted to know what must happen with our bodies and our lives, and no matter what religious beliefs one holds, no one but that individual woman will be held accountable for her personal choice.

  8. tosmarttobegop

    OMG, a 15 y.o. girl is fighting for her life after a 15 y.o. boy damn near kicked her to death at school.

    The boy was trying to get a message to his 13 y.o. girlfriend at the school but the girl did not have a cell phone in order to send her a text.

    The boy knew that the 15 y.o. girl had one and knew his girlfriend.
    So he sent text messages to the 15. y.o. to give to the 13 y.o.
    But the 15 said she would not and then send the message that she did not approve of the relationship.

    The 15 y.o. boy put on his steel toes boots and rode his bike to the school and told people he was going to kick the 15 y.o. girl.

    Once pointed out to him, he knocked her down and started kicking her.

    She is in very bad shape and my not survive.

    • fnord

      Where? Here locally?

    • indypendent

      I feel for the 15 y.o. girl but I have to give her credit for taking a stand for her friend. Maybe this brave girl knew this 15 y.o. boy was capable of such violence and wanted her 13 y.o. friend nowhere near this ticking bomb?

      Life is not fair but that does not mean we have to like it.

      Out of curiosity, since he is 15 years old, can he be tried as an adult for this assault and battery? Or will it be kicked down to the juvenile division – like so many other cases?

      • tosmarttobegop

        Not familiar with Florida laws.
        But I think because of how violent it was and his stated intent. He will be at least made a try for adult court.

  9. indypendent

    Whoever yelled baby-killer at Stupak is low but isn’t it very telling that not one single Republican will tell the truth?

    I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with these people. They are angry, that’s a given; but they are more than that. They are so full of hate they cannot see the forest for the trees.

    Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand.

  10. tosmarttobegop

    It was just said the the person who yelled baby killer was a Rev. White?

    • fnord

      He has identified himself and has devised an excuse for his inexcusably poor decorum!

      “Texas Republican Randy Neugebauer has admitted it was him. He claims that he was not calling Stupak a “baby killer”; he claims that he was describing the legislation.”

      • indypendent

        Yeah, sure. I buy that, don’t you? I buy that like I buy the argument that C Street is a real church.

    • fnord


      “Last night was the climax of weeks and months of debate on a health care bill that my constituents fear and do not support. In the heat and emotion of the debate, I exclaimed the phrase ‘it’s a baby killer’ in reference to the agreement reached by the Democratic leadership. While I remain heartbroken over the passage of this bill and the tragic consequences it will have for the unborn, I deeply regret that my actions were mistakenly interpreted as a direct reference to Congressman Stupak himself.

      “I have apologized to Mr. Stupak and also apologize to my colleagues for the manner in which I expressed my disappointment about the bill. The House Chamber is a place of decorum and respect. The timing and tone of my comment last night was inappropriate.”

    • fnord

      I guess he thinks it’s OK to behave that way and then make an excuse and apologize. It’s also probably easier than simply conducting himself as an adult would be.

      My opinion is that it isn’t OK, and if he can’t control himself when will he lose control again, and in what manner, and to what extent?

  11. tosmarttobegop
    Medical personnel treating Josie Lou Ratley — the 15-year-old Deerfield Beach girl beaten by a teen boy last week — on Sunday removed her bandages, exposing rows of stitches from two surgeries to relieve pressure on the girl’s brain.

  12. fnord

    Take a look at this interactive map tracking toxic assets by state. Right under the introductory paragraph is a bar that starts in Dec, 2006 and if you move your mouse along that bar (or click the arrows at the beginning) you can watch the progression up to February 2010. Very interesting!

  13. Was looking at one of my favorite blogs. Kate makes a clear case on why health care had to change. Makes me sad that the clear case is hers, but hopefully she gets some relief:

    Interesting link in the comments to a calculator on the Washington Post website that shows how the bill will affect your insurance cost and taxes. Interesting, given the doom and gloom I heard at the office all day

  14. fnord

    Thanks for the reference to Kate’s blog, Oma! Her story is probably one of millions that we don’t hear, but should. Except we’re already in favor of helping Americans with the basic necessity of affordable health care. Those who aren’t probably wouldn’t bother reading of Kate’s dilemma.

    Here’s the link to the calculator Oma mentioned. Four simple questions and you’re told how the health-care reform bill will effect you —

  15. Come gather ’round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown
    And accept it that soon
    You’ll be drenched to the bone.
    If your time to you is worth savin’
    Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come writers and critics
    Who prophesize with your pen
    And keep your eyes wide
    The chance won’t come again
    And don’t speak too soon
    For the wheel’s still in spin
    And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s naming.’
    For the loser now will be later to win
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don’t stand in the doorway
    Don’t block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There’s a battle outside and it is ragin’.
    It’ll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don’t criticize
    What you can’t understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is rapidly agin’.
    Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    The line it is drawn
    The curse it is cast
    The slow one now
    Will later be fast
    As the present now
    Will later be past
    The order is rapidly fadin’.
    And the first one now will later be last
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Copyright © 1963, 1964 by Warner Bros. Inc.; renewed 1991, 1992 by Special Rider Music

  16. David B

    Democratic offices in Wichita, elsewhere vandalized

    Authorities in Wichita and some other cities across the country are investigating vandalism against Democratic offices, apparently in response to health care reform.

    And on Monday, a former Alabama militia leader took credit for instigating the actions.

    . Since then, vandals have struck several offices, including the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita.

    Stauble said the brick, hurled through the window between Friday night and Saturday morning, had “some anti-Obama rhetoric” written on it.

    Read more:

  17. David B

    Don’t miss this great insider story of how the Prez took control of the mess and won the day.

    Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) launched into a tirade against David Axelrod, a senior White House adviser and one of Obama’s closest confidants.

    “I have been in a slow burn here, a slow burn!” the lawmaker hollered from the last row of the meeting room. “I’m just livid.”

    Lacing his commentary with profanity, Franken complained that the health-care campaign had been lackluster and leaderless, particularly in the tentative period since Brown’s victory.

    “Goddamn it, what’s the deal here?” he said, as colleagues, their spouses and aides looked on. “You’re talking platitudes, and we have to go home and defend ourselves. We’re getting the crap kicked out of us!””