The Oath Keepers – Some Scary Stuff…

This Mother Jones article is must reading.  Warning:  it contains some very scary information.  How many of the next Timothy McVeighs are there out there?

29 Comments

Filed under libertarians, Tea Party Movement

29 responses to “The Oath Keepers – Some Scary Stuff…

  1. The story reminded me of a blogger whose given name is Nathaniel.

  2. What is really interesting that the stuff that upsets these guys are policies started by Bush – torture, etc…

  3. fnord

    Are these people on some agencies watch lists? We can only hope! If, as they say, they really did learn lessons from the Ft. Hood shooter, surely these nutjobs are being monitored!

    I note from the article, after describing some really paranoid behavior it says: “It sounds paranoid. Then again, when you’re an active-duty soldier contemplating treason, some level of paranoia is probably sensible.”

    How many “undeployables” are currently serving in our military? How many are involved with this group of nutjobs?

  4. fnord

    I read in our local newspaper this morning about a speech Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Homeland Security, gave to the governor’s conference where she said domestic terrorists are as great a danger as foreign ones. Sounds like that was an under statement!

    Our military is training them! From the Mother Jone’s article said, “Role-playing the enemy in military exercises, Brandon says, has prepared him to evade and fight back against US troops. “I know their tactics,” brags Pray. “I know how they do room sweeps, work their convoys—if we attack this vehicle, what the others will do.”

    • Statements like that from Napolitano only feeds their paranoia and will convince them the government is really after them.

      • indypendent

        The latest IRS tax-hater that flew his plane into an IRS building was an angry white man.

        I read where his daughter called him a hero. And I’m sure she is not alone in her mistaken belief. Sounds alot like Timothy McVeigh, Paul Hill, Eric Rudoph and Scott Roeder – doesn’t it?

        They all have their admirers – don’t they?

  5. fnord

    “In September 2008, the Army began training the 3rd Infantry’s 1st Brigade Combat Team to provide humanitarian aid following a domestic disaster or terror attack—and to help with crowd control and civil unrest if need be.”

    Is this combat team still active? I wonder if there are some strict requirements for acceptance into this particular team?

  6. WSClark

    These people are fuckin’ nuts – just like the Weathermen and Yippies were in the Sixties. Throughout American history, we have always had idiots like Oath Keepers. Their names may change – John Birch Society – KKK – American Nazi Party – Tea Baggers – but to a large extent, they are just boys (and some girls) with illusions of grandeur.

    The difference today is the speed and coverage of Internet communication. Without the Internet, these man-child wannabes would just be a pack of NP losers, sitting in their basements, dreaming of being the next Adolph Hitler. The aspire to force their beliefs on the rest of society and they have no clue as to how violently society will react if they should try to enact their plans.

    Guerrilla tactics worked for the Viet Cong, but circumstances are much different in 2010 America. A relatively small “militia” movement is not going to stand up to the American Armed Forces. The greatest military power in history is not going to back down in the face of treasonous lunatics and wannabe revolutionaries.

    These morons may think that the American populous is behind them, but they are sadly and possibly tragically mistaken.

    They may be willing to die trying and their wish will most certainly be granted.

    • indypendent

      The real problem is to have these Oath Keepers in the same bunch being driven by their NeoCon masters and then blessed by their Christian God to get rid of all heathens and bring on the Rapture.

      Now that is a one scary group!

  7. WSClark

    “I know their tactics,” brags Pray.

    Spoken like a twelve year old boy that thinks he can beat his Daddy up.

    Ya’ better buy some Depends, Pray, because you WILL be shitting your pants when the shitstorm visits you.

  8. The Ten Oaths of the Oathkeepers:

    1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

    2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

    3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

    4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

    5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

    6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

    7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

    8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

    9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

    10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

    If these people had formed during the Bush Administration, would you think them so crazy? I don’t see anything in these ten oaths that I find objectionable. As a matter of fact, if you have watched film of the police and government reactions to any protests lately (including the one at the republican convention in 2008 or at the G-2o summit in Pittsburg last year), you would wonder if martial law HAS been declared already.

    If these people are members of our military and police forces and they are opposing the abuse of power against the citizenry, I am standing with them.

    I am tired of this knee-jerk labeling of everyone that doesn’t agree with us 100% as “wingnuts.”

    That’s what cons call US. And it is all part of the plan to DIVIDE and CONQUER. We all have to stop dismissing each other in such rude ways and start listening. It can be hard, I admit. The logic can be torturous. But we and THEY might find that we have more fundamental ideas in common than we do differences.

    • WSClark

      Every member of the United States Armed Forces has a right and duty to refuse unlawful orders. They do not, however, have the right to decide for themselves what laws are unlawful.

      For example, the Constitution provides for the right to “keep and bear arms.” It does not, however, provide for the right to own firearms without a background check. Failure to uphold those laws puts all of us in danger. Sheriff Mack, from the “Oath Keeper” movement does not and did not have the right to decide for himself that the law was unconstitutional.

      If individuals have the right to decide for themselves what is and is not constitutional, then where do you draw the line?

      Do I have the right to decide that laws against murder are unconstitutional and therefore I can choose to ignore said laws?

    • I believe Paula is correct, where were these people under Bush? That was where this crap got started, i.e. serious over-reaches of power

  9. fnord

    Paula,

    The man who asked to be identified as “Pray,” from the article in the thread header tried to enlist in the military not long after 9/11, because he said he was “hell-bent on revenge.” The Army turned him down, but a few years later the enlistment standards had been reduced and he was allowed in.

    “In Pray’s estimate, it might not be long (months, perhaps a year) before President Obama finds some pretext—a pandemic, a natural disaster, a terror attack—to impose martial law, ban interstate travel, and begin detaining citizens en masse. One of his fellow Oath Keepers, a former infantryman, advised me to prepare a “bug out” bag with 39 items including gas masks, ammo, and water purification tablets, so that I’d be ready to go “when the shit hits the fan.”

    When it does, Pray and his buddies plan to go AWOL and make their way to their “fortified bunker”—the home of one comrade’s parents in rural Idaho—where they’ve stocked survival gear, generators, food, and weapons. If it becomes necessary, they say, they will turn those guns against their fellow soldiers.”

    The man sounds deranged to me. He sounds like someone ‘itchin’ for a chance for his mental imbalance to become violence. I don’t think he cares what the ‘Ten Oaths of the Oathkeepers’ say, he seems to have his own ideas.

    If these people had formed during the Bush administration, I would find at least some of them just as unbalanced as I do today. Maybe some in this organization are sane, but they seem to have attracted some who aren’t.

    • I read the whole article with an open mind. I found quite a bit of what the participants said HIGHLY objectionable. But I don’t disagree with some of the tenets of their organization.

      I was aghast at the laws passed during the Bush Administration. I know a lot of people that voiced their concerns at the time. But they seem to have faded away in the mistaken belief that a Democratic president would turn things around or would never advocate abuse of power. And yet the Obama Administration has, in large part, carried on business as usual in most of these areas. I say that none of us can or should trust our government if they are prepared (and they are) to use our own military against us and have crossed-trained our police forces in military procedure.

      There is basis for conversation in some of what these people are saying. I think even the author of the article was making the case that some of what these people are espousing would find a home in liberal circles. And I am agreeing with that assertion and also stating that it is dangerous and counter-productive to continue to dismiss everyone on the other side with derogatory labels.

  10. fnord

    OK, I’m following you now, and I agree. Any kind of generalizations are usually inaccurate.

    • And I think I’ve come off as really argumentative lately, for that I apologize. I am just trying to get back to my progressive roots and be more open-minded, especially when it comes to problem solving. Because I think that we have some major problems and I am coming up empty on the solutions front lately.

      I just see that we have to somehow come together if we are going to take back the power from the corporations. And they really have us divided.

  11. fnord

    I don’t think an apology is necessary! I think we must be able to speak out and disagree agreeably to get things ironed out.

    As far as politics, I don’t know either. I would like to understand, but find much that I’m glad I can’t arrive at a point of understanding.

    My mind slams shut and refuses to listen when anyone thinks gays, minorities, women, shouldn’t be offered the exact opportunities as everyone. And, again, when anyone starts in with wanting to reduce religion to politics — they must remain separate in my mind. So those are the areas where you’ll have to nudge me overandover to remind me I’m being intolerant.

    I just want to stop that thinking that someone has to be a loser in order for there to be a winner. It just might be that we could all be winners if we weren’t so critical, so stubborn, so divided. We can all agree that there are few differences and then set out to make those few tiny differences more important than all we find agreement on.

  12. tosmarttobegop

    Back in the day( during Clinton) the real question as to what and how the military would react to an armed stance to the Government?

    I will see if I still have a copy of one story in the trilogy I wrote which has this as part of it.

  13. tosmarttobegop

    Found it and since it is a longer read then would be good for this space. I will make it a thread and later it can be deleted.

  14. tosmarttobegop

    The darkness

  15. fnord

    Maybe we can talk Iggy into moving your story into the fiction tab. I don’t know how to do it.

    I’m reading your story, don’t want to quit but it’s time to get busy in the kitchen so finishing it will have to wait until later in the evening.

    You really meant it when you said you hated Clinton! WOW! And, then at some point you learned he wasn’t doing what he had been accused of, wasn’t as dangerous as he was made out to be…

    Do you think some who have the same thoughts and fears about Obama will come to a rational realization, like you did about Clinton? And the other question I have is, are some who were afraid of Clinton the same who are afraid of Obama? Are they only afraid if there is a little “D” beside the name? Did they relax when bush the lesser was in office simply because of the little”R”? And did they never even realize how much he endangered our personal freedoms?

    • tosmarttobegop

      Fnord daily I hope they do realize just how delusional it takes to blindly believe what there is not proof for.

      LOL Yeah I really did hate Clinton! Blindly, delusional-ly and pointlessly.

      The real turning point was David Brock (author of Trooper-gate)coming out and explaining what was going on.

      Our ole friends the Neo-Conservatives were behind it, they finally realized that unlike past Presidents where they could sway and influence. Clinton was not giving them the time of day, so they decided they had to bring him down or at least weaken him.

      They searched for anything they could spin into something wrong and insidious.
      White water, Vince Fosters suicide almost everything that was accused or implied about Bill and Hillary was nothing more then spin to undermine them. Hillary was right, there was a vast Right-wing conspiracy!

      Oddly the only thing that they uncover that was legitimate was Monica! And when they first heard about it they dismissed it as partisan spin and nothing to see!

      Anyway Brock coming forward explained a great deal and made me realize how foolish I was being.

    • tosmarttobegop

      Yeah I would like to put all three part there but I can not figure it out either.
      The second one is the best and the most emotional.

      And oddly it was the first one I wrote.
      There had been no intention to write what happen before “Elders” or after.

      But after it got such aclaim on the
      web-zine I had to tell the rest of the story.

  16. WSClark

    Hey, if you don’t like taxes, move to Dubai – just bring your veil and leave the Bud behind…..

    • lilacluvr

      Hey, even Dubai is going bankrupt.

      You know, all that greed, arrogance and ignorance crap can just go on for so long until it hits the fan!

  17. wicked

    The same conspiracy theories and stories were going on during the Bush years. I saw them in chat rooms, even went to websites that showed supposed prison-type camps. McConnell AFB was considered one for the future. My thought was, hey, I’m not that far from MAFB. At least I’ll be close to home.

    But it was the far-far-left liberals who were sharing these things. I have to admit that there was a shadow of truth in some of it. But that didn’t make it completely sane.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    • That’s what I was trying to say. Except that I would not use the derrogatory term “conspiracy theory” to describe the things that people were observing and attempting to analyze.

      This country has illegally held its citizens.
      This government has performed illegal, unethical scientific experiments on unwitting citizens.
      This government has illegally infiltrated constitutionally-protected citizen groups, wiretapped them, harrassed them and threatened them.
      This government has a written plan in place to use the military to “control” the citizenry in case of disaster or epidemic.
      This government continues the illegal and abhorrent practice of rendition.

      Wow. People are really crazy to worry that the government might be lying to them about the swine flu thing or that they might be planning to illegally imprison citizens or that they might be in danger of losing their freedom. Oooppps. We already are losing our constitutionally protected freedoms.

      There is more than “a shadow” of truth to the so-called conspiracy theories. But the connotation of the words “conspiracy theory” is a bunch of paranoid delusionists creating hysteria. And in researching some of these claims (from both sides- because it is impossible to mount a defense if you are not prepared with facts), I have come to the conclusion that everything I know cannot outweigh that which I don’t know enough for me to make conclusions about anyone else’s sanity or lack thereof.