Friday, 1/29/10, Public Square

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Filed under The Public Square

43 responses to “Friday, 1/29/10, Public Square

  1. fnord

    Quite an interesting chart —

    http://presidentialdebt.org/

  2. fnord

    “A former Marine with ties to Tea Parties and militias who talked openly about using his training “to become a domestic terrorist” has been charged in separate complaints with raping a child and possessing an unregistered grenade launcher. His arrest may signal that a wing of the Tea Parties is heading in a more militant direction.”

    http://www.irehr.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43:tea-partying-militia-leader-arrested-for-rape-possessing-a-grenade-launcher&catid=9:news&Itemid=23

    • fnord

      I don’t think this nutjob needs any more attention than the Fort Hood nutjob should have been given — very little. In the Fort Hood disaster the victims should have been the focus. We know they weren’t.

      But if government can be blamed as they were at the time the Fort Hood nutjob came to our attention, then government also should be recognized for stopping this guy before there were victims!

      • I am not going to automatically assume that this guy is guilty of what he is being charged with. It would not be, and has not historically been, beyond the practice of the US government to frame someone that they believe is becoming dangerous, for whatever reason.

        The weapons charges sound like they will stick. But if it were proven that the molestation charges were trumped up in order to gain access to this guy’s house on the weapons suspicions, then there is a possibility that the weapons charges would be thrown out. Probably not, but possible.

        The thing is, I am not condoning armed insurrection, but I do agree with some of what these different groups are asserting–the system is corrupt, it does not represent us, and there has been little success in bringing about change by working within the system.

        Let’s face it–our government cannot be trusted. We should wait and see what comes out about all of this before we rush to judgment.

      • fnord

        “…the system is corrupt, it does not represent us, and there has been little success in bringing about change by working within the system…”

        That’s pretty much what Roeder used as his defense.

    • fnord

      We should also note the continued threat of the militant direction of the teabaggers, the radicals inside our country who bear names that sound as American as “Charles Allan Dyer.”

  3. fnord

    Your stimulus dollars at work, your Democratic fiscal policies paying off after staving off the worst recession since the Great Depression:

    Economy Grows At 5.7 Percent Rate, Fastest Since ’03

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123104028

  4. tosmarttobegop

    It is alarming and perhaps more alarming that such individuals and groups are not new.
    I am well aware of the growth during President Clinton’s administration of anti-Government groups.

    I was not aware that it dates back passed President Kennedy’s administration.
    To be honest this is so new to me I do not know whether it is just during Democratic administrations.
    Though I heard of the raise of the likes of the John Britches society, the Commie concern and the accusations against President Eisenhower.

  5. tosmarttobegop

    Every morning MSNBC has an update, now if I was going to have Lunch at the White house.
    This update might be of more importance to me and in the grand scheme of things I guess it is not all that important one way or the other.

    But why do they announce everyday what the soup of the day is at the White House?
    Does this cause some people to go “Oh my God I have to rush out and buy some cracked oysters and duck feather cubes! So I can feel like I am having Lunch at the White House.”.

  6. On another topic; today marks the 149th anniversary of Kansas’ admission as a state. Happy Kansas Day, y’all.

    • wicked

      Too bad there’s no school today. G-kids had told me they were having Kansas Day celebration today. 😦

    • fnord

      I’d forgotten. Today is the anniversary of Kansas being admitted to the Union — Kansas Day.

      On January 29, 1861, the “Sunflower State” became the 34th state to be admitted into the Union.

  7. wicked

    Am I the only person who has to approve to receive comments on each and every thread?

  8. Something interesting to consider? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-r-monk-jd/did-al-qaeda-trigger-the_b_441825.html

    This reads a bit like a conspiracy theorist beginning to run amok, but there are some valid points therein.

    • That interests me because I have often wondered at the seeming convenience with which Bin Laden pops up and of which the threat of Al Queda is used to further encroach on our freedoms and line the pockets of the rich and powerful. If you think there is a possibility that all or some of this is choreographed, then you wonder, if a terrorist organization really did strike, would the government hide that from us? There have been coordinated electronic attacks reported, but have any of them been blamed on Al Queda?

      Of course, you don’t have to go any further than what has already happened, if it is true that Bin Laden coordinated the 9/11 attacks, to see that the US economy has been weakened by the global war on terror. As long as we continue in this track, we cut our own financial throats.

  9. Zippy

    Scanned thru the majority and dissent in Citizens United v. FCC this morning. I wasn’t all that familiar with election law, and surprised to discover the degree at which it thumbed its nose at precedent, even specifically overulling a decision made just two years earlier. Granted, such abrupt about-faces are not unknown (think the Jehovah’s witnesses/mandatory Pledge cases), but add that to going out of their way to produce issues not even raised by the petitioner, it at least forever lays to rest the notion that conservative Republican judge somehow believe in restraint.

    I’m wondering : When was the last time the Supreme Court struck down far more than the complaining party was even advocating?

    • This comes from a private seminar among interested parties re healthcare reform. It is a reaction to the decision you discussed.

      “…it’s a big deal…a very significant decision…it basically says that corporations and trade associations would be able to use corporate dollars for…political activities that say, “vote for this person” or “vote against that person.” So, it sort of kicks it up a notch into political mode…for private corporations and for trade associations, it’s a new avenue of corporate participation…this is something that Democrats are very concerned about because…the corporations with the deep pockets will tend to be aligned with Republicans…the deep pockets of corporate America probably go even further than the deep pockets of some of the big labor unions. So, there is an advantage here for those corporate entities.”

      “…the restrictions in terms of how close to an election you could make those claims and make those advertisements—30, 60. 90 days…gone too…It will have a huge effect and healthcare is a perfect example of how it will be used. People will advertise going up to these elections against Congressman X because he voted FOR the bill, FOR Congressman Y because he voted against it…that was not permissible before…it is resonating here…and either being used as a way to incentivize people to vote a certain way or scare them to vote a different way.”

      The chilling effect of the Supreme Court decision on our already corrupt system is that, even if you are intent to go and do the people’s work, the corporate interests will see that you don’t stay in office too long. I am sure that this was already going on, but now it will be blatant. Does it say anywhere in the Supreme Court decision that these corporations that will now be able to blatantly insert themselves and their money into our government even more than before will have to IDENTIFY themselves while they are doing it?

      The only defense that the people may have against this is to turn public sentiment against corporations for their activism.

  10. Thunderchild

    Yeah they cancel school for three inches of snow. I spent my entire schooling in Wichita schools and I think they canceled school less than 3 times in 13 years.

    Well baracko wants to gut the space program.

    And TODAY he is off to speak at a Republican retreat! Wonder what he’ll give away there?

    I don’t think we can bat this around anymore. And I don’t think we can wait for the next election. I think this guy has got to go.

    • Zippy

      He’s already got a fight on that one. I know Gabby Giffords isn’t going to complacently go along with it.

      Meeting with House Republicans to talk them into tax credits is bizarre. What’s left of the Republican party will always support tax credits, tax cuts, etc. And then turn around and call Obama a dangerous radical.

      If it’s anything more than a pro forma show, then the wrong lesson has been learned, again. The Daily Show summed up the Evan Bayh wing of the party well: “Maybe the Republicans will forgive us for winning the last election.”

      It’s a path to certain defeat. Even if it kind of worked for Clinton in 1996, it extended a temporary Republican majority in the House another decade. It’s beyond moronic.

      “The caricatures of us by the other side will be ineffective — as long as we vigorously oppose them and expose them, instead of sheepishly acquiescing in them. If Democrats run for cover, if we become pale carbon copies of the opposition and try to act like Republicans, we will lose — and deserve to lose. ”

      http://www.populist.com/kennedy.dems.html

      • You know, THAT is the ironic thing about this whole situation. The more Democrats lean DLC conservative, the more they look like, act like and make policy like the conservative Republicans that they claim to be in opposition with, the more the general public believes they are somehow left-leaning and liberal and the more the conservatives despise and disrespect them!

        The liberals that remain in the Democratic party continue to stand up for their values and continue to be told that they somehow endanger Democratic initiatives and success. But if the conservative Democrats would just start acting like Democrats instead of like Republicans in cheap suits and costume jewelry, the general public would have so much more respect for the party. Its the conservatives that endanger the Democratic party, not the other way around.

  11. On a similar subject, here is an article from today’s WaPo about the fallout from Obama’s SOU address:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803750.html?wpisrc=nl_politics

    I laughed a couple of times. Those Senators are a real crack up! WHAT a bunch of whiners!! Multiple polls have revealed that the House version of health care reform (which actually contains some reform!!) is closer to what the citizens of this country want than the Senate version which is a loaded gift to the greedy corporate so and sos who have created the mess in the first place. But the Senators are insisting that they can’t pass the House version and now they are blaming Obama and playing the victim.

    Democratic Senators–start acting like Democrats, stop worrying about what WILL pass and start doing your job! Twist some arms, make some deals, make a big noise about obstructionists–don’t try to work with them when everyone in this country knows that they have absolutely no intention of working with you. If there are four or five democrats in the Senate that need some convincing, CONVINCE them, don’t capitulate to them! And for Christ’s sake, WHY do I have to tell you how this should work???

  12. fnord

    Is Bipartisanship Futile? Obama, Visiting House GOP, Makes Another Attempt

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/politicaljunkie/2010/01/is_bipartisanship_futile.html

  13. Thunderchild

    “Go where?”

    Impeachment sounds pretty good to me. But I don’t know that that can be made to happen.

    If I had to vote today, I would vote third party rather than Obama. I am sorry to find that I was just exactly right about him. Worse. he is WORSE than bill clinton because he has more leverage than Clinton had and just refuses to use it.

  14. tosmarttobegop

    I caught part of the President and the Republican meet up, confronted them about their obstruction.
    Answered loaded questions with detail and adding are you opposed to that?

    I want to watch Fox, I don’t know if they carried it live if not and even through I want to hear the spin.
    Somehow I would suspect they will manage to have Obama wanting to kill small children out of the meet-up.

    gop.gov is a website that they have posted their amendments and ideas for health care reform.
    Oh but these are real one according to Mike Pence for all the world to see!
    Going to check it out.

    • fnord

      I saw part of it too, tstb. Questions which needed to be asked were asked, answers which needed to be heard were given. Wouldn’t it be a better world for everyone if that was the beginning of the conversation and not the beginning of a new round of spin?

    • Zippy

      I guess he was actually invited? Go figure.

      From what I read, he held his ground, and . He’s good at that, when it comes to pushing back in meetings.

      The problem, I guess, putting it most charitably, is that his first year he let the process get ahead of him instead of the other way around.

      I know “making understatements” and “talking to your enemies” is something seasoned negotiators advocate. But it’s really important that your positions–as distinct from Harry Reid’s or Joe’s Biden’s or Nancy Pelosi’s—be clear.

      You have the pen, sir.

      By the way, I should mention good on Nancy for standing tough. And Obama definitely got one thing–the Republicans, with the smallest minority in decades, have precious little room to negotiate.

      Which made the meeting more than pro forma but something less than a negotiation. That’s good, actually.

      The newspapers headlines are playing it up as “Obama takes on the Republicans.” We already know how the Republicans® are going to Respond®. It’s going to be a rough year, politically, but it was in an ugly environment that Obama found his stride. I think Nancy had a good idea, too (or was it Paula upthread? 😉 Sorry, I’m very tired, waiting for the drugs to take effect!). Obama need to present legislation–particularly on things that have been languishing.

      You would at least his VP–the man was in the Senate for 35 years–would have elbowed him on the ribs on that one–that’s what staff are for. I realize it must be a hell of a learning curve (and that at least, I will say, argued for Hillary–she never sat in the chair, but saw the process from the inside–but she was—and is–quite available as Secretary of State. She works for him).

      It will be ugly no matter what, because, as Sam Rayburn noted, any jackass can tear down a barn, and it’s all they got. Maybe the spirit of Teddy guide the next year.

      And may the DLC die a quiet, overdue death.

  15. Zippy

    Thank you very much, fnord! You’re awesome!

  16. Thunderchild

    Ok.

    I’m impressed. I was not happy about Obama going to a Republican retreat. I was reasonably sure it would be HIM who would be doing the retreating.

    I was wrong. If you didn’t get to see it in it’s entirety…

    Well, DON’T look for it on Fox “news”!

    But DO look for it. Seems like it took the President a year to decide to show up. But if this is a preview of President Obama going forward?

    I like!

  17. David B

    The r’s sounded so silly spouting their talking points when they are disputed by real facts from a man who has mastered the issues.

    • fnord

      Silly, ill informed, partisan, out of their league, childish… They sound like their leaders — rush, palin, beck, hannity, boehner, mc connell, mc cain… Who did I leave out? I haven’t really been able to determine who does lead them.

      You think they learned their lesson and won’t invite face to face meetings in the future? I think whether they do or not we will see more of their awkwardness exposed.

      President Obama is a skilled offensive player! Their team better get back in the game with some ideas and solutions because they can’t win by simply saying no, and playing defense. They have to have an offensive game! They gave President Obama their offensive play book yesterday, I think he can stay a step ahead of them easily! Won’t it be something when he articulates their ideas? If there any in that booklet worth using, he will. I bet he gives them credit too! And who will look like they are not cooperating when he does that? 🙂

      Is their Plan B to continue to oppose tax cuts for small businesses? That’s what I’ve seen most recently.

  18. Thunderchild

    Know what it reminds me of?

    The first debate between george bush and Al Gore.

    bush was as close to a deer in headlights as I have EVER seen. If Gore hadn’t started in with the sighs, that debate would have gone down as the biggest rout in history.

    That’s what I saw last night. Obama was Babe Ruth and the cons were Charlie Brown.

    • fnord

      The part I liked the best was that President Obama acknowledged the Republicans in the House have ideas and then pointed out why they don’t work. He was able to use their points to make his, and he proved his points while showing theirs to be nonfactual, unworkable, and ineffective!

    • iggydonnelly

      The Gore/Bush Debate worked against Gore, because who wants a, you know, smart president.

  19. wicked

    It seems to me that if a bill is passed that is an combination of ideas from both parties, then congresscritters would be able to aknowledge that “we” passed such and such a bill or “I helped pass the XYZ Bill,” it would be a win/win for all of them. That’s how the Founding Fathers set it all up, so that it wouldn’t be a them or us situation, but that they would have to work together to make laws that help everyone. Give and take. Something our government has forgotten.

    No one can everything they want. But the two parties have figured out ways they can do that when they have the power. Republicans are business (and corporation!) advocates, while the Democrats are people advocates. To make it right, it should be a compromise so that everyone is taken care of as best as can be. But when members of congress are more concerned with their own wealth, everyone (including business and people) get hurt. I think this is why so many are calling for “no incumbents”.

    • fnord

      Standing ovation, wicked!

      And, the POTUS said the same thing yesterday! Two smart people (YOU and Obama) who see working together for America to be what should be important.