U. S. military weapons inscribed with Bible passages

What would Jesus shoot?

Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.  The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

At the end of the serial number on Trijicon’s ACOG gun sight, you can read “JN8:12”, a reference to the New Testament book of John, Chapter 8, Verse 12, which reads: “Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”

fnord

46 Comments

Filed under Religion, WAR

46 responses to “U. S. military weapons inscribed with Bible passages

  1. wicked

    That is so wrong for several reasons.

    Would God want his name on things that kill innocents?

    Where’s the separation of church and state?

    Why are my tax dollars used to promote a religion? ANY religion? Over 50% of our tax dollar goes to military spending. Kinda makes one stop and think, when compared to the 1% that goes to cash assistance for the poor. You know, that 1% that everyone on the right bitches about.

  2. The Christian version of Al-Qaeda.

    This one has me pretty much speechless…

  3. Rumsfeld used to send G.W. Bush military reports with Bible verses on them.

    Al Qaeda, indeed.

  4. From the linked article: “The company’s vision is described on its Web site: “Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom.”

    “We believe that America is great when its people are good,” says the Web site. “This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals.”

    Because what better to exemplify the love of God than killing?

  5. According to the story ABC News published this company is making millions off military contracts. I guess that makes it OK. Ya know, if you worship at the alter of BIG BUSINESS, BIG MILITARY / INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX then this company must be the poster child!

  6. lillacluvr

    This story is so wrong on so many levels.

    But the arrogance of these people is what really jumps out of the article to me.

    Arrogance is NOT what God is about. Well, maybe their God, but not a loving God.

  7. lillacluvr

    I wonder, if an innocent civilian is killed in a crossfire shooting with our supposed enemies, does that person’s life not count as murder so long as there is a Bible verse on the gun?

  8. I feel I have to chime in here. First, the makers of the scopes can put whatever the hell they want on them..it’s called free speech.

    They make scopes and sights. Guns are weapons, people are the brains behind them. Focusing on a verse on a sight shows you to be looking for ANY reason to complain about religion. Who cares what is on the sight?

    There are much larger problems in this world than a few numbers on a gunsight.

    • wicked

      I respectfully disagree with you about your comment that “Focusing on a sight shows you to be looking for ANY reason to complain about religion.” I’d reword that a bit. Focusing through a sight with a Bible verse on it is a bit hypocritical.

      Do unto others, and all that jazz. 🙂

    • lillacluvr

      Free speech? Since when is selling weapons to th USA a matter of free speech?

      Any contractor trying to sell their products to a buyer (in this case, the USA) should have to make those products according to the buyer’s specifications.

      Did some in the US government specifically asked for Bible verses to be put on these weapons?

      If some company wants to express their freedom of speec – then they have press releases and public relations people to handle that issue.

      Freedom of Speech is not putting your Bible verses on products you are selling to an unsuspecting buyer – who might just not want those Bible verses on those weapons.

  9. If the military decides to follow their own rules which, “specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious “Crusade” in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents,” according to the article in the thread header — will the taxpayers have to pay to have the inscriptions removed?

    Were the rules made known to the manufacturer? If so, shouldn’t they be expected to bear any cost that might be incurred if changes are decided to be made?

  10. lillacluvr

    Now that this story has broke, I wonder how long before we hear about Christians are being persecuted – and all that drummed up malarkey..

    • We may just now be hearing about it, but the soldiers have known, and complained.

      We have one post right here on our blog that says, “Focusing on a verse on a sight shows you to be looking for ANY reason to complain about religion.”

      Yes, Lilac, you will hear and read these complaints. They aren’t able to see that imposing any religion on everyone is exactly what the Taliban do. And, no, there isn’t a superior religion and therefore a Christian theocracy isn’t superior to the Taliban.

  11. Maybe we should have passages from the Qur’an, the Talmud, Nahjul Balagha, Vedas, Tao Te Ching, Book of Certitude (Kitab-i-Iqan), Book of Mormon, Dianetics engraved on military gear too since nobody “cares what is on the sight?”

    The referenced article states, “…many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they’ve told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as “spiritually transformed firearm[s] of Jesus Christ.”

    I feel we shouldn’t have any references to any religion on any weapon bought and paid for by taxpayers. Further, allow the soldiers the liberty of following the religious beliefs they individually choose. I think separation of church and state and freedom of religion are constitutionally guaranteed.

    • Aren’t soldiers and the military some we depend on to uphold and protect our Constitutional rights?

    • wicked

      I’d say that the commanders’ comments have a slight ring of ‘religious war.’

      I suppose for some, it is, which makes it sadder still. There are too many reasons for wars, as it is.

    • Those numbers on that sight only mean something to a person who wants them to mean something. You can put any quote you want on a piece of equipment, or some numbers from the Qu’ran on it, and i won’t know what those numbers mean, nor will I care.

      Tell me, because i don’t care what those numbers mean, am I infringing upon the rights of Muslims? Am I just too damn insensitive to them because i don’t care what their number mean? Should I care what they mean? Should i be at the mercy of EVERYTHING that everyone scratches on a table, or a gun, or a wall?

      You get too upset over this stuff. Those numbers only mean something to a believer, and frankly, the numbers are meaningless anyway. If God really “wrote” those books, then he didn’t need our numbering system to help him.

      • You miss the point. The POINT is that this is another opportunity for our military to be JIHADIZED. (Yes, I just made that word up, but you know what I mean by it, don’t you?)

        The United States Military is being hijacked by religious fanatics that believe that they must bring about some sort of Holy War in order for the end of the world to come so they can be magically wisked away. If officers of the US Military are specifically bringing the fact that there is a bible verse on a gun sight to the attention of those that are using said gunsight, your point that it doesn’t matter what it says on the gunsight has been proved wrong.

        Everything happens for a reason and you can put your head in the sand and pretend that it’s okay for the US Military to utilize religion to further brainwash our troops into doing whatever they are told, but people who have a deep abiding faith in God’s love and people who have respect for the Constitution and the beliefs and values that this country was founded on, WE will not shut up and go away.

        WHY would a bible verse be put on a weapon? WHY would the US Military go out of its way to point out to the users of said weapon that it has a bible verse on it?

        This is not an accident or “free speech” by a company and frankly, this HARMS our cause. Militant muslims teach that the US is trying to destroy Islam. We answer that by saying this war has nothing to do with religion. Then we go putting bible verses on guns that are used to shoot militant muslims.

        Perpetuation of war is in the best interest of the corporate masters. That is why the bible verse is there.

        When people tell me that I am getting too upset over stuff, then I know that they are unaware of most of what goes on around them. Wake up, partypooper.

      • PrairiePond

        Thanks for proving it really is all a religious crusade. That was no misspeak on shrub’s part.

        Religion, all religion, is the most dangerous thing in the entire world. There will never be peace until all religion is wiped off the face of the earth.

        Let’s start with partypoop.

  12. PrairiePond

    WWJK?

    Who would Jesus kill?

    • You can start by trying to kill me, junior.

      Yes, the liberal answer is to exterminate religion. Anyone reminded of Nazis?

      • lillacluvr

        Actually, Hitler was studying to be a priest. So I think maybe religion played a major factor in what the man thought and did – wouldn’t you think so?

        Hitler and the Nazis were real big into making a ‘pure race’ also.

        When I hear the Republicans talking about making their ‘pure’ candidates the only candidates to vote for – I get real worried about that talk also.

  13. wicked

    “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia”

    • wicked

      You’re welcome to your religion. As far as Christianity goes, it’s as good as the next religion. But it isn’t the religion that has the big problem, it’s the followers. Or some of the followers. I won’t lump everyone together in one big pot, because it wouldn’t be true or right.

      It’s wrong for PrairiePond to want to kill off a religion, but it’s okay for the religious to make remarks about killing our President? To cheer the death of the poor in our country and around the world? To put Bible verses on instruments of death to make it more acceptable?

      If Christians want more respect, they must, as a group, be more respectful. They could start by following the teaching of their leader, Jesus Christ, because at this point, I can’t believe He’s real happy at what is going on.

  14. Welcome to Prairie P & Ps, Politicalpartypooper. I looked at your blog, and want to tell you I appreciated your sense of humor and your writing. Got a real kick out of your thread, “10 things to look for in 2010.”

  15. itolduso

    Well, as a person of faith, I find that putting scripture on the sights to be an improper usage of scripture. The company is indeed entitled to free speech, and the free excercise of their religion. I do not believe for a second that somehow this makes the US GOVERNMENT forcing a religious, even single religion upon anybody. Nor do I think it is some evidence of some huge Constitutional crisis.
    But, since the government does own the sights, they should tell the manufacturer to knock it off for expediency sake. There is no reason to have it there, it can cause controversey, which is not needed to accomplish the mission of the US military

    • wicked

      Is it free speech if they’re receiving money?

      So here’s a question I’d like to see answered. Is there an additional cost for the inscription? Or is it a package deal? Was the Pentagon (or whoever orders these things) aware of the inscription when the sights were ordered? Was there someone who chose this particular company for this very reason?

      It’s messy, that’s what it is. Truly messy.

      • lillacluvr

        According to the New Zealand article that I posted today about this company’s gun sights, they were not aware of the inscriptions when they made the purchase.

        I cannot speak to the Americans and what they knew – the article only talks about New Zealand and Australia.

      • itolduso

        I do not believe that is what is meant by “free speech” but I do think it was an improper thing to do. It serves no purpose, has the potential for at least political damage and distraction, and the military does not need any more of that than is absolutely necessary.

      • wicked

        itolduso, I was using “free speech” in the literal sense, which is what many people use. How many people actually know what free speech is? And how many know that it should be used with careful thought, especially so as not to overstep the right?

      • wicked

        Thanks, lilac. In truth, I believe that’s what has happened. If the opposite were true… Well, let’s just say I wouldn’t be a happy duck.

        So where is truth in advertising? It does make me wonder about the company. I don’t know how products are procured for this type of thing. Do those purchasing see the item before deciding and ordering? If so, was the engraving not on the sample? If not, why? It all boils down to why it was chosen. If it was because the sights were well made, okay. But it feels a bit sneaky (on the part of the maker) to do this.

        I can, therefore I will?

  16. WSClark

    “Yes, the liberal answer is to exterminate religion. Anyone reminded of Nazis?”

    What kind of bullshit is that? Show me where liberals want to “exterminate religion.”

    I am as liberal as the next son of a bitch and I am not religious, but I certainly do not want to “exterminate religion.”

    I have great faith (pun intended) in organizations such as Inter-Faith Ministries and Unity Church. What I have no faith in is preachers like Falwell (dead, thank God) and Pat Robertson.

    I know many liberals – some atheist, some agnostic, some church going, in fact many church going.

    None want to “exterminate religion.”

    So, provide some proof of your proclamation.

  17. WSClark

    Oh, and this…………..

    “You can start by trying to kill me, junior.”

    Completely uncalled for.

  18. Stinky Pete

    I’m guessing none of you (distasteful descriptive words removed) even would know the significance of “JN8:12” on a gun sight, unless it was decoded for you.

    No harm, no foul.

    • Stinky Pete,

      This blog has one hard and fast rule that will never be changed — no blogger will call another blogger names. We have other rules too and this is a well-moderated blog!

      If you have an opinion, please feel free to state it, if you want to be mean spirited, go someplace else. If you choose to continue calling bloggers names after this warning, you will be banned from posting here.

  19. lillacluvr

    Actually, anyone who truly knows what John 8:12 meant, would not be putting it on a gun sight – of all places.

    When Jesus told his followers to go spread the message of the Gospel – I don’t think he meant with gunfire.

    Do you?

  20. WSClark

    Thank you, Ms. Fnord, I certainly don’t have delicate sensibilities, but I find that and similar words to be disgusting and demeaning to women.