Be sure to read the entire article and learn who the key players are in this vicious circle. I’m sure we’ll be hearings these names again in the coming years.
I wonder, how will Fox News spin it that Rupert Murdoch is pallin’ around with a Muslim? I thought all ‘real’ Americans hated Muslims?
Lilac
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/18/saudi-prince-alwaleed-bin_1_n_426891.html
PrairiePopulistsAndProgressives.net 
Most people are able to distinguish the radical fringe of the Muslim religion, although you’re right some don’t and advocate killing all Muslims.
Most people are also able to distinguish that Rupert Murdoch is a radical. All but the Fox News faithful.
I just find this interesting as to how deep the Saudis are into everything. Did you read the part about this Saudi prince telling the Citibank CEO he has one year to make it or break it?
Hmmmm…..let me get this straight. The US taxpayers bail out Citibank and then some Saudi prince is the one that actually gets tough on the Citibank CEO?
I wonder if Rush is going to be telling the Saudi prince to back off his criticism of this certain Wall Street CEO? You know, like Rush lambasted Obama about how he wants to control everyone and everything on Wall Street?
I’d like to see that duel – Rush on side and this Saudi prince on the other.
Somehow, I think the Saudi prince would have Rush for lunch.
Maybe there will be a game of Rushian Roulette?
“It’s like you have a patient just coming out of ICU, intensive care unit, and all of sudden bang him with another tax. I think it’s too much, it’s too early for that if it’s going to have that happen,” he said, according to the transcript.”
We all thought that the Saudi’s had undue influence on the Bush Administration. Wonder how much influence they have on the Obama administration. Wonder if this tax thing is going to go anywhere? I, for one, would like to see the people with all the money being taxed for a change. (And that goes for the churches as well as the banks)
When it comes to churches being taxed – I am divided.
I know of some wonderful churches who are doing great work and doing what Jesus really preached about.
But when I see these mega churches, buying up the prime real estate and building these mega campuses with all the gold crosses for trimming – then I see these churches as nothing but a ‘business’ and those churches need to be taxed – IMHO.
I have nothing against anyone’s religion, but if your church is more about the ‘money’ than the ‘message’, then perhaps it is time to move on and find a different church home.
It should be easy to identify the churches most guilty of influence outside their ‘areas of expertise.’
I work with some Muslims and count some as friends. But you have to wonder where all of this is going. I’m starting to think the planet may not be big enough for them and us. I’m all for “live and let live”, but I’m wondering if the majority of Muslims feel that way.
As for the Saudis, sure seems like a lot of trouble comes from within their borders.
The planet is not big enough for them and us?
Well, what choice do we have – we cannot exactly jump off the planet, now can we?
And we certainly cannot go out and kill each and every Muslim – although I have heard several so-called Christian Conservatives advocate for that to be done.
But let’s examine something here. From yesterday’s topics, there is a company that sells sights for weapons to the US with Bible verses on them.
Now, if you’re a Muslim and reading this story about this company, would you not think that – perhaps – the Iraq War has been turned into a holy war, started by all the so-called Christians who advocate for killing every Muslim? Because, like it or not – Bush and Cheney are tied to the Neocons and the Right Wing GOP. These are the people who profess to be such good Christians. Bush and Cheney chose to invade Iraq on the false premise of WMDs and they had something to do with 9-11.
Is it any wonder Muslims do not like us?
If Bush and Cheney would have gone after Bin Laden – like Bush promised and then after awhile didn’t even think about him anymore ; I think the majority of Muslims would have cheered.
BTW – If we got off the dependence of foreign oil, we could simply ‘live and let live’ , couldn’t we?
But we are an arrogant nation. We think that just because we want the oil, they have the oil, we have the right to go in and take it.
It didn’t work out that way, did it?
Remember Bush explaining how the Iraq War would be paid for? Through the sale of the Iraqi oil.
Did you happen to hear who got the rights to all that Iraqi oil? China and Russia.
So, was Bush wrong or we were used as the simpletons to go in and get rid of Saddam Hussein, wasted billions of borrowed money and then we wind up with what – nothing to show for it?
I would like to see the US get off the dependence of foreign oil and then tell the Muslim countries – all of them – to shove their sand up their collective asses.
Personally, I think the Saudis have alot to do with the unrest in their part of the world.
I think they are a double sword – and double swords cannot be trusted – unless you’re the one using it.
It wasn’t really my intention to set off an anti-Christian rant or a blame America first tirade, but there it is.
It wasn’t Christians or Americans that flew airliners into the WTC and Pentagon.
It was Muslims. And it was an act of war.
I am a Christian, so please do not put words into my mouth.
But if you think mega churches are okay – then that is your belief.
If we follow your logic that Muslims flew the airliners into the WTC and Pentagon – so, therefore, all Muslims are to blame then ….
Timothy McVeigh was an angry Christian white male who blew up a federal building in OKC. So, since McVeigh was an angry Christian white male – all angry Christian white males are to blame?
BadAxe, do you think those Muslims who flew those airplanes represent all Muslims? Do you think Pat Robertson represents all Christians?
I listened to talk radio this past weekend while working and there were several people professing to be Christians who were trying to let people know what Pat Robertson ‘meant to say’.
Well, I heard for myself, from the horse’s mouth, what this so-called Christian leader said. Do these people not know there are videotapes of this comment?
I do not need any of his Patbots to be interpreting for me what the old codger ‘meant to say’.
This is not the first time Pat Robertson has made comments like this. So, obviously this is how the man truly feels.
What part of my posting did you find that I blamed America?
If you think that there were not arrogant people in our country that felt that we had the right to go in and get that Iraqi oil – then you, my friend, are sadly mistaken.
And now we learn there is a company that sells weapon sights with Bible verses on them.
And then you tell me that the Muslims are the only religion that is wrong?
No, my friend, we have not always done the right thing as a country and the sooner we own up to that fact, the sooner we will learn from our mistakes.
But, you go ahead and think that America can do whatever we want, to whomever we want, and however we want to to do it – and all the time borrowing money from China to do it – then good luck to you.
But I resent the fact that you label me as anti-Christian when, in fact, I am a Christian. I simply see the bad apples in the bunch for what they are – bad apples.
But if you don’t mind that the bad apples are in the bunch – then that is your belief.
Actually, Bad Axe, those hijackers were majority from Saudi Arabia – but I saw our president kiss the Saudi king and then walk along holding his hand.
So, am I to assume that since we follow your logic – if the WTC hijackers were Saudis – then anyone that pals around with Saudis is a traitor?
Is that what you’re saying?
And, Bad Axe, if we follow your logic – again.
If Muslims were to blame for WTC then why was a special plane boarded with all the Bin Laden family and/or guests allowed to fly away from the country when all other flights were held on the ground?
If all Muslims are to blame for WTC – then didn’t we just let some of the suspects get out of the country rather quickly?
This is from memory, so please take it as such.
A major problem facing the House of Saud is the Wahabi “sect” of the Islamic religion. Very fundamentalist in doctrine and belief, they have shown themselves to be a destabilizing force in Saudi Arabia.
There was a compromise reached between the Wahabi leadership and the Kingdom which provided that the government would not interfere with their schools, etc., and the Wahabis would not work against the government within the Kingdom. This uneasy compromise has worked more or less, with the leadership’s flanks protected from internal attack and unrest that otherwise be occurring, in the opinion of many.
IIRC, post 9/11/2001, there were articles and media reports concerning the relationship set forth above and the large financial contributions made by certain members of the royal family to certain Wahabi imams and mosques. There was a small flurry of activity by the government against a few of the more radical Wahabi imams, after it was shown that the 17 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis, most if not all of whom were followers of the sect and its teachings. Subsequent thereto, a few anti-government protests occurred, with the relationship returning to the prior uneasy calm.
It seems to me that as much as we in America need the access to the oil reserves, the Saudi royalty needs the petrodollars flowing therefrom in order to retain the perquisites enjoyed, and to remain in power. The only thing that may have changed is the rise of demand for the oil by others, such as the Chinese. The Kingdom is thus, to me, engaging in a delicate balancing act on the edges of the sword, knowing a slip will be fatal. This balance provides the Wahabis with more influence, it being my understanding they potentially are strongest in number and influence in the areas where most of the oil is produced, and it would not take much action on their part to destabilize the entire thing, to the detriment of industrialized countries.
When religious influence of civil matters is discussed and I overreact — which I will admit I do — it’s usually because of this kind of scenario. I haven’t heard of a religion, including Christianity, that doesn’t have ‘sects.’ There is this group who believes this and call themselves Christians, another who doesn’t share that particular belief but still are Christians. Sometimes those beliefs held only by a portion are very important to the followers. If you intermingle religion and civil law, when do the differences clash? How does the clash play out?
Within the last few days, Zippy shared with us the full text of The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 16 January 1786, An Act for establishing religious Freedom. Read it here —
https://iggydonnelly.wordpress.com/2010/01/16/saturday-11620-public-square/#comments
I don’t think it matters which religion forms a theocracy, there are inherent dangers, due to the heightened emotional response to protect ‘your’ religious views. I say we as a country continue to protect that freedom of religion and separation of church and state!
One last point – before I leave…
Bin Laden took credit for the WTC attack. So why did we invade Iraq?
If you want to blame people for the WTC – then put the blame on the correct people – the one that took the credit for it!
But I don’t see anyone too worried about capturing Bin Laden. Hey, John McCain said he had a foolproof plan to capture Bin Laden during the last months of the campaign.
If Mr. McCain has a foolproof plan, then why doesn’t he share that plan with other and really put ‘Country First’.
But, no, let’s just keep this hatred of all Muslims going – that’s what will keep our country safe from terrorism.
Now – this IS a tirade!
“What part of my posting did you find that I blamed America?”
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
“But we are an arrogant nation. We think that just because we want the oil, they have the oil, we have the right to go in and take it.”
lillacluvr
January 19, 2010 at 11:12 am
I am a Christian, so please do not put words into my mouth.
“But if you think mega churches are okay – then that is your belief.”
“If we follow your logic that Muslims flew the airliners into the WTC and Pentagon – so, therefore, all Muslims are to blame then ….”
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And then YOU put words in my mouth. I never said anything about “mega churches” or “all muslims”.
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fnord
January 19, 2010 at 11:12 am
BadAxe, do you think those Muslims who flew those airplanes represent all Muslims? Do you think Pat Robertson represents all Christians?
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Where did I say that? Where?
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lillacluvr
January 19, 2010 at 11:20 am
Actually, Bad Axe, those hijackers were majority from Saudi Arabia – but I saw our president kiss the Saudi king and then walk along holding his hand.
So, am I to assume that since we follow your logic – if the WTC hijackers were Saudis – then anyone that pals around with Saudis is a traitor?
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More “stuff” that I didn’t say.
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lilacluvr
January 19, 2010 at 11:35 am
And, Bad Axe, if we follow your logic – again.
If Muslims were to blame for WTC then why was a special plane boarded with all the Bin Laden family and/or guests allowed to fly away from the country when all other flights were held on the ground?
If all Muslims are to blame for WTC – then didn’t we just let some of the suspects get out of the country rather quickly?
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Ok, I can take a hint. A good friend suggested that I check out your blog. He said this was a place where you could voice an opinion and not get jumped on for it.
I find that’s not the case. I wondered why there only seem to be 5-6 regulars here. I think I know why now.
I appreciate your forebearence in letting me post here for a few days. I’ll do you a favor and bid you adeu.
Regards,
M
“fnord
January 19, 2010 at 11:12 am
BadAxe, do you think those Muslims who flew those airplanes represent all Muslims? Do you think Pat Robertson represents all Christians?
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Where did I say that? Where?
***************************”
I asked two honest questions which you didn’t answer. I didn’t know how you felt about either question because you didn’t post that info. If you had, the questions wouldn’t have been needed.
I hoped we could discuss the differences, our differences, with open honest communication. I wanted to listen, and learn, and be adult about discussing a touchy subject.
Bye, Good luck in your blogging experience!
When you make a statement like “I’m starting to think the planet may not be big enough for both of us,” that rather invites extreme conclusions, since, as it’s written, it’s an open-ended, blanket statement, a hostile declaration of “us or them,” and when you mentioned muslim friends at work, that suggests, perhaps, some relevance to religion? .
Who are the “both” to which you were referring? If you mean Wahhabi extremes vs. reasonable people, then, yes, the world has a big problem.
“I appreciate your forebearence in letting me post here for a few days. I’ll do you a favor and bid you adeu.”
As the person who started this blog, you are welcome to return anytime you like. SED
I’m sorry if people think I threw a tirade here but BadAxe did say something about an anti-Christian and anti-American rant and it was quite obvious he/she was referring to me.
Isn’t it funny – when someone who claims to be only asking questions really threw down the gauntlet by accusing someone (me) of being anti-Christian and anti-American.
Those are not questions – those are accusations and I do not believe any person, whatever political label they choose to use, should have to sit back and not be able to respond to such accusations.
But, alas, I am sure whoever BadAxe is, they are more content with people more of his politial stripe – the ones that obviously think it is okay for Christians to kill everyone in their presence – if they choose to do so.
The freedom of speech is a wonderful thing and we each have it equally.
But when a person claims to be seeking tolerance but yet does not ask questions – rather throws out innuendos and accusations – then I have to ask ‘what is their motive?’
Check out the other place and see from 9:59am to 12:06pm – that will explain alot.
““But we are an arrogant nation. We think that just because we want the oil, they have the oil, we have the right to go in and take it.””
Well I don’t know what problem “BadAxe” has with that statement. It happens to be true.