Help or Ignorance?

I just made the comment about mega preachers helping Haiti and how the bad apples make the other Christian groups look suspicious.    Is this guy for real?

Lilac

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/pat-robertson-haiti-curse_n_422099.html

49 Comments

Filed under Religion

49 responses to “Help or Ignorance?

  1. He sure seems to have an “in” with the devil! He always knows who has been cursed.

  2. lillacluvr

    You’ve got to read some of the comments on the bottom of this link.

    One poster asked a fair question. Is Pat Robertson old enough to have actually been present when this alleged ‘pact with the devil’ was made?

    If not, then how does he know this is a true story?

  3. So let me get this straight. A piece of land can be cursed by the devil a long time ago and the people currently on that land bear the punishment.

    • tosmarttobegop

      Well that is not so far fetched, after all the entire human race was curse because one woman could not resist eating an apple!

      It all you women’s fault or have you not heard?

  4. itolduso

    Apparently, Pat Robinson is a bit addled.

  5. lillacluvr

    In other words, the victims are at fault.

    It couldn’t be that there might be a fault line going through the land.

    As for the two parts of the island and one side prospers and the other side does not as being proof of the curse.

    Let’s see – in Wichita we have one section of the city with all the bells and whistles and the section just south of them looks like a war zone.

    Is it a curse on the southern section of the city or is it because the political powers to be are in charge of the money and the bulk of the money goes towards that section with all the bells and whistles.

    Politics can be good or it can be bad. Too many times, politics and corruption go hand in hand.

    • tosmarttobegop

      Well of course it is oblivious, the South side of Wichita made a pack with the Devil!
      I grew up there and I can tell you that many of the men and women there sure look like the Devil.
      When I started drinking, I drank like the Devil!

      We had two K-Marts for every one that the rest of Wichita had!
      A noisy Air port and almost all the aircraft plants were in the Southwest corner of Wichita.
      The Devil made himself right at home in the South part of Wichita.

  6. If Christians allow this, don’t call him out on these outrageous statements, are they acquiescing thus allowing him to be a spokesman for them?

    Someplace, somewhere there has to be a person who could gently, kindly, with love — point out this man doesn’t speak for the Christian religion.

    • lillacluvr

      But no one ever does confront this man. That is the problem. Have you ever watched one of this CBN shows?

      They are nauseating. All the women sit there and oooohh and ahhhh at his every word. The men sit there and act like they are some fellow soldier waiting to help the Almighty God himself.

      No one ever questions him – ever!

      Of course, most sane and rational people do question him and then dismisses him as some buffoon televangelist who is just out fleecing his minions for their millions.

      But the people questioning him are not the ones sending this buffoon their money. Alot of this money comes from senior citizens who are home bound or in nursing homes and they get it into their heads that they are helping by sending to a ‘Christian’ man.

      Just because someone professes to be Christian, does not make it true.

  7. wicked

    I knew something sounded odd. Here’s the rub.

    Unincorporated unorganized territories [of the U.S.]

    Islands in South Pacific

    American Samoa, self-governing under a constitution last revised in 1967
    Wake Island, inhabited by US military and civilian contractors only
    Midway Islands, inhabited by caretakers
    Johnston Atoll, uninhabited
    Baker Island, uninhabited
    Howland Island, uninhabited
    Jarvis Island, uninhabited
    Kingman Reef, uninhabited
    Islands in Americas

    Bajo Nuevo Bank, uninhabited (claimed by Colombia and Jamaica)
    Serranilla Bank, uninhabited (claimed by Colombia)
    Navassa Island, uninhabited (claimed by Haiti)

    Then there’s this, too:

    Areas formerly administered by the United States (incomplete)
    Cuba (April 11, 1899–May 20, 1902): sovereignty recognized as Republic of Cuba
    Haiti was occupied by United States from 1915 to 1934.
    The Dominican Republic was occupied by the United States from 1916 to 1924.
    Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (1947–1986): included the Compact of Free Association nations (Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, and Palau) and the Northern Mariana Islands
    Ryukyu Islands (1952–1972): returned to Japanese control, included some other minor islands under the Agreement Between the United States of America and Japan concerning the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands.[2]
    Bonin Islands (or Ogasawara Islands) (1945-1968): Returned to Japanese control by mutual agreement.
    Marcus Island (or Minami Torishima) (1945-1968): Returned to Japanese control by mutual agreement.

    Maybe we were helping with that pact. 😉

  8. itolduso

    Pat Robertson neither speaks for me, nor my church. However, as an American, he is entitled to his opinion. Personally, I think his opinion is nuts.

    • lillacluvr

      He is entitled to his opinion, but as facts go – how can he say this is a true story unless he was personally there when this alleged pact was made?

      • itolduso

        I have no idea. Even if it were absolutely true, which I find almost impossible to believe, it is idiocy to point it out at this moment.

  9. lillacluvr

    What I don’t like is that this type of nonsense from a so-called Christian leader makes light of the true Christian message.

    The majority of Christians are not nutjobs – but when confronted with the vast and loyal following of this old codger, one has to wonder – are they all like him?

    • And this guy is definitely POLITICAL. He bases this fairy tale of his on the historical FACT that the people of Haiti, fed up with outside rule, opted for self-rule and overthrew the French government. So the moral of his story is that self-rule is somehow bad, that in order to achieve it, you must be evil, do something evil or make a contract with an evil entity and the inference is that we should all just obey authority.

      Which of our forefathers made a pact with the devil to secure the liberties that we used to enjoy in this country (until the conservatives took over and started slowly taking them away)? Was it all of them? Does that taint the ones that went along with it but weren’t in on the pact? What has been our punishment? And what is God’s statute of limitations on punishment of generations past for their alleged sins?

      Sorry, all this stuff is politics. You won’t find one word of this sort of nonsense having been claimed to have been uttered by Jesus in any of the New Testament books. What does Pat Robertson think “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” means anyway?

  10. He is an embarrassment, we all agree. He doesn’t represent most, but he does get to be on television and must have sponsors who pay for the time, viewers who tune in his program.

    Lilac, it’s like you said about the rumors that are front page, while the retractions are on a back page. There are people who hang on his words. That’s sad, and does a huge disservice to Christianity.

  11. lillacluvr

    You’re correct – itolduso – it is like he is blaming the victims for the horrible tragedy.

    And what good is that going to do for anyone?

    But, imagine all the money Robertson will bring in to his coffers to help bring the good message of the Christian God to Haiti.

    Perhaps that is the real reason for saying what he did – to start the flow?

    • itolduso

      Perhaps. Does he still have a following? I have no idea.

    • If he didn’t have followers, would he have sponsors? If he didn’t have sponsors, would he be on television?

      Maybe the 900 Club is self-sufficient, but it’s still money he begs for on television and too much of it comes from viewers who are misled.

      • itolduso

        Is he still on Television? I know the channel got sold and changeed, I have not seen him on Television since then, except for reports on incidents such as this.

      • Yes, he is. Nightly during the week on some cable channel (surfing, stumble upon his visage).

      • wicked

        Somehow there are times the channel gets changed earlier and I hear his voice when it comes on. That’s the quickest channel switch I do. Yes, I recognize his voice, and I’ve seen him asking for money, money, money. But what church doesn’t these days? “Faith” is a business now.

        Jesus wept. ( and a nod to PP)

    • wicked

      Kind of biased links, itolduso. And that’s how rumors get started.

      For a real view of Haiti and its history, try Wikipedia.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti

      Funny, but there’s no mention of the devil or pacts with the same.

      • itolduso

        Maybe. The first one says it is so, the second one, written by a Haitian says it isn’t true at all, but has been perpetuated throughout Haitian society for a very long time. So, which one was biased?

        I had never heard this before, even though I know missionarries in Haiti. I found a couple of links that explained the story. For your enlightenment only to that degree.

      • wicked

        Maybe the first was one of those missionaries? Seriously, this does reek of jealousy from the losers. And I’d bet my left big toe that any prayers to a “heathen” god would have been the same as a pact with the devil to Christians at that time. The French are predominately Catholic aka Christian, although for all I know, Napolean Bonaparte, who I’m sure was who Robertson was referring to, was an athiest. Not saying he was, of course. 😉

    • How do you argue with “Facts” like that? Even if there were historical evidence to prove that a group of people got together and they testified at the time to the things that were said and done at this meeting, how do you prove that anything that eventually happened nine years later was the result of this meeting? You don’t because it is absolutely impossible, as well as implausible.

      It is yet another example of people believing what they choose to believe, what it is convenient for them to believe, no matter how NUTS that might be.

      BTW, Voodoo is NOT devil worship. The story that was quoted as evidence that there was a pact with the devil describes a voodoo ritual, not a satanistic ritual. wikipedia defines haitian voudou belief as:

      “The principal belief in Haitian Vodou is that there are various deities, or Lwa (commonly spelled Loa), who are subordinate to a greater God, known as Bondyè, who does not interfere with human affairs. Therefore it is to the lwa that Vodou worship is directed. Other characteristics of Vodou include ancestor worship and protection against evil witchcraft.”

      • wicked

        For those following the Christian faith, anything non-Christian is evil. Evil=Satan aka the Devil. Even if you don’t believe in Satan or devils, if you aren’t Christian (or possibly Jewish, depending on the day and time), you worship Satan/the devil.

        There has to be a fallguy, somebody to blame for bad choices or choices, as you said, Paula, that don’t agree with a set doctrine, be it political or religious. Satan is nothing more than an excuse to do bad things. “The Devil made me do it!” “He/She is possessed by the Devil!” ad nausem

        Interesting article on the horned god. (No, I don’t watch True Blood.)
        http://true-blood.net/2009/09/01/mythology-the-horned-god/

  12. wiki is a good place to start. Although we know there are errors, and there have been times when there were contributors with an agenda, most often wiki gets you started on a factual journey.

    • wicked

      Agreed, fnord. But at the moment, I don’t have time to dig. It’s quick, it’s fairly accurate. Better than Robertson’s “facts.”

      Yet it was okay to take these people’s lands and make slaves of them. You know, I think I’d fight ’em, too.

      But which “devil” did they enter into a pact with? A Haitian devil or the Christian devil? And if the latter, just how were they aware of it? Pitiful excuse for losing a war, if you ask me.

  13. tosmarttobegop

    I know the mind of God and right now he is thinking…. Ah…… Ah…..Ah….
    A piece of chocolate cake sure sounds good right now!

    • You have chocolate cake?

      Finally, a serious weighty topic to discuss. Chocolate cake is one of my many downfalls, vices, shortcomings… I’m not going to list them all!

      Is it red velvet, German chocolate, devil’s food? Does it have chocolate icing?

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        Cake (whether chocolate or otherwise) now falls into the “You can’t have that, Dad” part of my life. 😦

      • tosmarttobegop

        red velvet with choclate icing!

        But my real weakness is a good chocolate chip cookie for that just name the person you wish dead?

        The mountain you wanted moved?

        Which foot you wish to have washed?

        I will fan you with a large feather fan and pour your wine!

        OK I really Love Chocolate chip cookies!

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        My cookie favorite is a Fig Newton (in multiples of dozens at a time). At 15g/carbohydrates each, when I’m really good, I have one.

        For “homemade”, give me oatmeal-raisin every time.

      • wicked

        We always have 2 Waldorf=Astoria cakes every Christmas. One of my daughters took over making them for me, but this Christmas she was too tired, so it fell back to me. Each cake has a green layer and a red layer, with white butter icing. It’s supposed to be the real red velvet cake that someone paid the chef at the W=A some ungodly amount of $$. My youngest & I came home this year with half of one cake. I only allowed myself one piece every day or two. If I hadn’t, I’d have eaten the entire half in one sitting. 🙂

        For all you chocolate chip cookie fanatics, my daughter has the makings of Toll House cookies here. She just hasn’t gotten around to making them. Should I send out smoke signals when she does?

    • PrairiePond

      Ha! tstb!!!!

      But… would you peel grapes and feed them to me while wielding the fan?

      hehehe. HAHAHAHAH.

      JK

  14. tosmarttobegop

    6176, I am type 2 Diabetic and often heard it from my wife.
    So I honestly try to not indulge…. honestly I do!

    When ever my wife is with me at the store I am so honest!
    Heee she weren’t with me last night and boy that crunch bar did taste so good!

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      As you may be able to figure out, so am I (Type II diabetic, recently diagnosed).

    • Again? I thought you went through that and beat it?

      I remember you telling me one time that if we lived long enough we would be diabetic.

      • 6176746f6c6c65

        Still am. What I attempted to communicate was that the docs took me off the medication, and we’re trying to ascertain whether diet alone can control. So far, it all looks good; I’ll know better after next week (3-month follow-up).

        Yes, I told you that; and, it still is so, to the best of my knowledge (I’ve read way too many death certificates).

      • I remember the conversation more accurately now.

        Damn, I’m old.

        Yes, it was no medication, control with diet and so far so good. Thanks for nudging the old memory.

  15. I used to bake chocolate chip cookies often when the kids were home. My oldest son, Chad, would take the whole cookie tin with his glass of milk (vs a handful). I asked him why and he said he was going to eat cookies until the milk ran out and didn’t want to come back for more. He also could eat cookies by the dozens.

  16. lillacluvr

    Just got back home from running errands.

    For those who are interested – Pat Robertson 900 Club is on every morning at 9am on Channel 12.

    I usually watch the news on Channel 12 and when it is time for Mr. Pat – I change the channel ASAP.

    But I have watched a few of his shows and they are always the same – asking for money, money, money to fight the evil liberals – heathens – and in this case – the devil that has a hold of Haiti.

    I suspect this old codger would even ask God himself for money if he thought he could get away with it.

    • lillacluvr

      As for sponsors – I don’t know if the television ads they show during this time spot are directly related to Mr. Pat – but there are television ads blaring loudly. So, one might assume these products are from companies that support Mr. Pat.

      You notice I call him Mr. Pat because he is no preacher to me.

  17. Thunderchild

    I think this has to be a defining moment.

    For the comments of Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh on this disaster, this has to be the line where we say “this far, no farther”.

    These bad men HAVE to be destroyed.

    • lillacluvr

      I wouldn’t count on that TC – there are too many dittoheads and Godheads who literally eat this stuff up like it is cotton candy.

      But, I do think it is a further wake-up call to the rest of the country as to what nutjobs these two ‘entertainment types’ are and exactly what their agendas are.

      And if these two think that purging the GOP into the PURE party is going to win them elections, well I guess we shall see, huh?