Harold Meyerson: Obama in the Failed Liberal President Group?

Harold Meyerson reviews the liberal Democratic presidencies of the 20th century.  He finds two who succeded (Roosevelt and Johnson) and two who failed (Carter and Clinton).  (Read the editorial here.)  The primary difference between the two categories is that under Roosevelt and Johnson there were influencial movements on the left, whereas this was not true during the Carter and Clinton terms.  In fact, especially under Clinton, there were successful right-leaning movements.

Can a left movement be created that will benefit Obama.  That is not clear and the mechanisms of h0w these movements start and develop is not clear either.

Maybe Obama is correct it is more up to us than we had believed before.  What say you all?

iggydonnelly

116 Comments

Filed under Liberal Government

116 responses to “Harold Meyerson: Obama in the Failed Liberal President Group?

  1. Obama may call himself a Democrat (though I personally believe that the party labels are meaningless anymore), but he is no liberal. His defense policies are not liberal. His economic policies are not liberal. His social policies are not liberal. His healthcare policy is not liberal.

    Dennis Kucinich is a liberal. Bernie Sanders is a liberal. Barack Obama is no liberal.

  2. Didn’t clinton balance a budget? Why is he looked upon as being so bad?

    • I used to admire Clinton because things seemed to get better for the working man under his adminstration. The more I know about the current economic climate, the more I realize that Clinton had as much to do with the crash in 2008 as the Republicans did. The Democratic Party has its nose up Wall Street’s ass–witness the Obama cabinet members and the lack of real financial services reform.

      Clinton was no liberal, either.

      Reform of welfare laws to the point of nobody being qualified to receive benefits anymore + don’t ask/don’t tell + repeal of the Glass Steagall Act signed into law by Bill Clinton = CONSERVATIVE [NOT LIBERAL].

  3. The money statement in this op-ed:

    “Unlike Roosevelt or Johnson, who benefited from autonomous movements, Obama would be answerable for every loopy tactic his followers employed. But in the absence of both a free-standing movement and a legion of loyalists, Congress isn’t feeling much pressure from the left to move Obama’s agenda.

    The construction of social movements is always a bit of a mystery. The right has had great success over the past year in building a movement that isn’t really for anything but that has channeled anew the fears and loathings of millions of Americans.”

  4. PrairiePond

    Why would anyone on the left want to help Obama?

    He hasnt lifted a finger for anyone or anything on the left. And now he “needs” help from the left?

    Kiss my fat, queer, female, white ass.

  5. lillacluvr

    The Right has a captive audience – the Evangelical Christians. How many television evangelists are there? And how many people are loyal supporters?

    All the Republicans had to do was to throw a few bones to these people – abortion and gay marriage – and the mighty social movement is born.

    And obviously wedge issues such as abortion are wanted to be kept as wedge issues because Bush had 6 years of total Republican control and the Surpreme Court was loaded with anti-abortion judges but yet never once did anyone on the Republican side try to do anything about abortion.

    Ever wonder why? Without wedge issues, Republican cannot whip their massses into a frothy foam with each election.

    • Democrats have their wedge issues as well and the whole damn game is on the people of this country. Neither side has the best interests of the people at heart, both sides are lacking in basic moral values and ethical behavior; they are basically high paid prostitutes for the corporatist leaders.

      We all keep playing into the divisive framework that has been set up to oppress us. Change can only come from the realization that BOTH sides are dirty.

      You are SO right on about the Right having its captive audience. I think that is why we are also experiencing an atheist backlash in this country. Even right here in Kansas, many of the young people I talk to are so disgusted with organized religion that they consider themselves atheists.

      Evangelicals should consider the damage that they are doing to the faith of the next generation.

  6. PrairiePond

    If obama “needs” help, perhaps he needs to turn to Wall Street. Or Donnie McCloset. Or Kirbyjon Caldwell. Or Big Pharma. Or the health insurance industry.

    After all, these are the people he’s been courting. He should get any help he “needs” by going to them, not the people he’s spit on. You know, the left?

  7. lillacluvr

    I know what you mean Prarie Pond but at least Obama is better than McCain would have been.

    I know that is not much consolation, but it’s all I’ve got.

  8. PrairiePond

    Maybe ricky warren can help him?

    • Ricky Warren could help out the RNC with their spending vs fund raising problem! Didn’t he beg for $900,000 in 48 hours and raise more?

      Bet he wrinkled up his forehead in a look of concentration and sincerity when he went beggin…

      • lillacluvr

        He got $2.4 million. But still no word from him on the proposed Uganda Kill the Gays bill.

        I wonder if Jesus is watching and taking notes?

  9. PrairiePond

    “at least Obama is better than McCain would have been.”

    Can you please explain HOW he’s “better”?

    • tosmarttobegop

      I’ll take a stab at that, McCain would have done nothing but declare another War this time on Iran.
      Otherwise he would have sat on his hands while Rome burned. Maybe give more tax cut to those who are doing better in the economic down turn and would not have needed them.

      It is a toss of a coin which is better to do something and it still is screwed up?
      Or do nothing and it is still screwed up?

      It did not take me long to realize that McCain was another sock puppet for the same Neo-Conservatives that had their hand up Bush’s rear end.

  10. PrairiePond

    “These people are only users – they never ‘give’ anything.”

    I dont disagree, but if that’s true, then WTF is up with obama kissing THEIR butts?

    • lillacluvr

      Don’t know – wish I knew. The entire political system is corrupt. Obama campaigned on that issue and promised to clean it up.

      Like we were talking yesterday, maybe the beast is too big to kill?

  11. lillacluvr

    For one thing, McCain’s wife would be going around the world dressed as the neon fruit of the day! That banana outfit she wore one time made her look like the Chiquita Banana girl.

    Seriously, McCain would have us at war with Iran in a heartbeat. McCain would have us not withdrawing from Iraq. McCain would have us starting a few more wars in other places.

    Get my drift? McCain is an old war dog and that is what sells on his side of the aisle.

    And, frankly, I am tired of all this war mongering. It makes for the fat cats to only get fatter.

    I also think McCain would have our economy in worse shape than it is now – if that’s possible.

    And, last but not least, with McCain in the White House – that would mean Sarah Palin as Vice President.

    And that last statement should be enough said.

    Like I said, it’s not much consolation but it’s all I’ve got.

    • George H. W. Bush showed wartime restraint, but I haven’t seen a leader show any since then — including Obama.

      I do agree that McCain would have been worse. Palin. That name still makes me shudder in disgust.

  12. PrairiePond

    Well, thank goodness obama isnt war mongering in Afghanistan. And/or Yemen.

    And how is that “withdrawl” from Iraq going?

    • lillacluvr

      You’re right, PP. Afghanistan is another hellhole war and we are supposedly working to help bring democracy to that land but we helped put in their corrupt president that just won re-election under rather shady conditions. WTF

      I think we need to just get our butts home, stop all foreign aid to any country that promotes all this war mongering, get our ass off the foreign oil and tell the Middle East and Arab countries to keep their damn sand and ram it up their asses!

      But that is only my opinion.

  13. PrairiePond

    “I also think McCain would have our economy in worse shape than it is now – if that’s possible.”

    I already think you know the answer to this. Otherwise, you wouldnt have said ‘if that’s possible’. What, Mclame would have given more money to the banksters? Increased the deficit more? BFD. Unemployment would still be just what it is now.

    “And, last but not least, with McCain in the White House – that would mean Sarah Palin as Vice President. ”

    That’s about the only thing you said that I agree with 100%! 🙂

  14. PrairiePond

    “Obama campaigned on that issue and promised to clean it up.”

    Well, Pelosi nailed it and the preznit yesterday when she said that he was “for” MANY things… on the campaign trail…

    In reality? He’s not “for” those things so much now.

  15. PrairiePond

    “I do agree that McCain would have been worse.”

    Really, fnord, I’m not trying to be a jerk. I want to know HOW Mclame would have been worse. How would my life be any worse under him than obama.

    Seriously, if all the obama supporters can say is that at least he didnt pick palin, I’d say that’s damning with faint praise.

  16. I do believe McCain would have nominated a different person for the Supreme Court than Obama. Always when there are few differences to see, I fall back on the long lasting legacy of court appointments.

    • lillacluvr

      And I heard someone on one of those Sunday talk shows say that another Supreme Court Justice is going to retire (I can’t think of the name now) within the next year.

      And the Supreme Court would be entirely different under McCain.

  17. BadAxe

    “at least Obama is better than McCain would have been.”

    Isn’t it sad that we’re reduced to voting for the lesser evil?

    • Yes! Sad, dangerous, disheartening.

      But the corporate masters buy whoever is elected so the little letters beside the names don’t indicate much.

    • lillacluvr

      Sad to say but there have been many elections that boiled down to which is the lesser evil.

      But I think Paula is right when she talks about the corporate interests running everything.

      As long as we have sold our souls to corporatism – nothing will ever really change, will it?

      We we will get a new face every 4 years in the White House (sometimes that same face hangs around for 8 years), but for the most part – the presidency has become nothing more than a status symbol.

      Status symbols rarely change anything – do they?

  18. PrairiePond

    “I do believe McCain would have nominated a different person for the Supreme Court than Obama.”

    Indeed, that is true. Although, it’s unknown yet how Sotomayor will vote on issues important to liberals. We’ll just have to see.

    And I cant help but think, maybe there wouldnt have been a resignation to create a supreme vacancy if Mclame had won. He would have hung on for at least another four years.

  19. PrairiePond

    “Isn’t it sad that we’re reduced to voting for the lesser evil?”

    My point (and I do have one) is that I’m no longer convinced that mclame would be any worse that obama. He certainly wouldnt be better, that is for sure.

    But given that obama is CLEARLY owned by the same people as mclame, I dont see how any of the policies would be any different. The policies are dictated by big pharma, the military contractors, big oil, health insurance, the banksters, etc. Not the preznit.

    And yeah, I’m dragging out the old “preznit” term because I dont see obama being much different than the pResident was.

  20. How true, PrairiePond. But I like having another woman appointed. Women are different than men in so many ways, and aren’t we half the population?

    There are many court appointments over and above SCOTUS, and those are often the biggest differences in today’s bought and paid for politicians.

  21. lillacluvr

    This is why I was putting down the Tea Party movement yesterday because they may say they are for throwing out all the bums but this gr0up clearly means only a certain party of bums – Democrats.

    As Bad Axe pointed out yesterday, there are two tea party groups. And one group is clearly corporate/politician/Fox News owned.

    So why have all these fancy speeches and events if nothing of real substance ever changes?

    • Do most of the tea baggers know which group they belong to, if there are two? I don’t think so. They seem inclined to believe the nonsense handed down from their equally undereducated, unenlightened patriarchs — Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and O’Reilly. Sarah Palin just puts a glossy sheen on the ugliest tendency of American society – the stubborn notion that white is right.

      Because even if you go back to the roots of that movement, which I think was the Ron Paul folks (before the corporate masters took over), you find intolerance for minorities, gays, women. And isn’t that also where you find the angry well-armed faction of the movement?

    • BadAxe

      “So why have all these fancy speeches and events if nothing of real substance ever changes?”

      It’s just more opiate for the masses. Once every two or 4 years they tell us what we want to hear and we keep voting for them.
      When will we ever learn? Can we ever make a difference?
      Not as long as corporate America owns DC.

  22. PrairiePond

    “I think we need to just get our butts home, stop all foreign aid to any country that promotes all this war mongering, get our ass off the foreign oil and tell the Middle East and Arab countries to keep their damn sand and ram it up their asses!”

    BRAVA!

  23. PrairiePond

    “When will we ever learn? Can we ever make a difference?”

    Uh, no. Not until the majority of the voters WANT to make a difference.

    “Not as long as corporate America owns DC.”

    I respectfully disagree. The only reason the corps own America and DC is because the voters let them. Plain and simple.

    Nothing will change until AMERICANS change.

    Good luck with that.

  24. PrairiePond

    “There are many court appointments over and above SCOTUS, and those are often the biggest differences in today’s bought and paid for politicians.”

    Agreed, Fnord!

    However, it seems the repukes and cons of various stripes control the appointments, whether they are in the majority or minority. The dems cant find their asses with both hands and a flashlight. They cant control the nominations even WITH a “supermajority”.

  25. PrairiePond

    Jesus wept.

    At least Hillary TRIED to do real reform.

    Obama said he’s meet the repukes halfway. And then he STARTED at the fifty yard line….

    • You’ll always be able to scream, “I told you so!” at me on the subject of Hillary.

      I ‘stood’ for her at the Kansas caucus and then let those who were convinced she was unelectable sway me before the election. 😦

      • PrairiePond

        Sorry fnord, I didnt mean to “scream” at you. And you know I love you.

        But the smear and fear against Hillary that put the big o in office will always be a source of pain and anger to me.

        And no, I wont let ANY obama supporter forget it! 🙂

  26. BadAxe

    “And isn’t that also where you find the angry well-armed faction of the movement?”

    I would extend that statement to conservatives in general. They have all of those guns and ammo. What are they going to do with all of that ordinance? I have no problem with Second Amendment rights, but these people scare me.

    • “What are they going to do with all of that ordinance?”

      Caress it, touch it, hold it, have it… Seems more important to them than most anything else.

  27. What impact, if any, do you think the changing ethnic background of Americans will have?

    I read an article yesterday that talked of blacks, Latinos and people of Asian descent collectively becoming the new majority. It also talked about how an expanded version of whiteness has resulted in race not being static. One of the questions the article asked was, “How did Jews become white folks?”

    The article stated, “In America’s early days, it was virtually impossible to conceive of a citizen as being other than white. The first U.S. naturalization act made whiteness a condition of gaining citizenship.”

    And women making an inroad into equality (we’re still too far off!), what difference will that make?

  28. BadAxe

    Hat tip to PrairiePond, several very good posts.
    “I respectfully disagree. The only reason the corps own America and DC is because the voters let them. Plain and simple.”

    I’m not so sure. IMHO, it’s the money. Corporations and big business can absolutely bring a blizzard of cash to bear when they want something. It’s obcene.
    On the other hand, we’re not dealing with the brightest people when it comes to the American Voter. (present company excluded, of course 🙂

  29. PrairiePond

    “What impact, if any, do you think the changing ethnic background of Americans will have?”

    Well, right off the top, I’d say that’s not good news for gay people or their civil rights. It seems that racial minorities in america want to pull the ladder up after themselves.

    Yes, this is a generalization, but the only people more homophobic than religiously devout americans are racial minorities.

    Yeah. I said it.

    “And women making an inroad into equality (we’re still too far off!), what difference will that make?”

    It depends on what kind of women you are speaking about. Michele Bachman? Malkin? Schaffly? MLK’s daughter who leads marches against equal rights for gay people? Tippy? OKO? Sandra Day O’Connor?

    There are plenty of women who are wingNUTS too!

  30. PrairiePond

    That’s just addressing social justice. When it comes to economic justice, as long as people, no matter their color, believe they too can be the CEO of Citicorp, they will continue to lick the master’s hand.

    And when their socio/economic status rises, they’ll be invested in maintaining the status quo.

    It would be nice to think that having felt the majorities’ boots on their necks, they’d have some compassion for others in that same position.

    Unfortunately, all I see is minorities joining the majority in keeping down the ones already down. Like I always say, everyone needs to feel superior to someone. And racial minorities are no exception.

  31. PrairiePond

    Thank you BA

    “I’m not so sure. IMHO, it’s the money. Corporations and big business can absolutely bring a blizzard of cash to bear when they want something. It’s obcene.”

    The money buys votes and elections. And who is allowing that?

    The voters. If the voters recalled and impeached the people who are bought by the corps, it wouldnt continue.

    But they wont. And it does.

  32. PrairiePond

    All voters have to do is “follow the money”.

    But they are too willfully ignorant to do that.

    • lillacluvr

      If voters truly followed the money, then we would be forced to deal with the knowledge we find.

      Unfortunately, most voters really don’t care as long as they have their house, job, health insurance, Starbucks coffee and weekly paycheck – they are content to not rock the boat.

      Until the majority of voters start losing ‘their’ livelihood – then that is when they will start to care.

      I think that is why we hear from all these angry white men so much now – this unemployment epidemic has reached far into that middle class level where these white men have been hibernating for so long.

  33. I guess I am disappointed this post garnered so little interest. 🙂

  34. I, too, was troubled by the liberal categorization of Clinton. He killed welfare – I think he had intentions to make the program different, but those got lost along the way. I think one reason the Republicans so hated Clinton’s guts was that he found ways to make their policies work – where they failed so miserably in the past.

  35. PrairiePond

    Hee hee heeeeee Iggy!

  36. When it comes to the rubber meeting the road, I am troubled by calling Obama a liberal, too. Maybe he feels like one, he just doesn’t act like one.

  37. PrairiePond

    I think st. ronnie ray gun and bush the first were so horrible that we were deluded in thinking Clinton was more liberal.

    He just looked good in comparison…..

  38. Prairie Pond, you must be off work. Is that due to the weather up there?

  39. PrairiePond

    Well, at the risk of using the “no true scotsman” fallacy…

    No TRUE liberal would have ever, EVER asked donnie mccloset to headline and preach at a fundraising event. I smelled a rat from that moment on.

    And it hasnt gotten any better. If anyone needed convincing that obama plays for the bushco team, all they have to do is look at this farce called healthcare reform.

    Jesus wept. Does anyone think it could be WORSE for the public? Is there ANYTHING left in the bills that liberals want?

    ANYTHING?

  40. PrairiePond

    Yeah Iggy, I’m home. I could have struggled in to work, but I’m just out of energy to deal with the weather.

    This is the THIRD blizzard/winter weather event in the past six weeks.

    I’m so ready to move back to Austin… For multiple reasons. The weather, governor opus dei, the ks legislature, the ks economy… the list goes on.

    And then Peg goes and reminds me about the land!

    Like the land cares where I live. (big eye roll)

  41. Well, glad you could make it here. I think this is supposed to be an El Nino winter. What I am recalling in the past few years when the winter starts off real cold, they tend to end earlier. So, with any luck, I will be wearing short sleeves in February. 🙂

  42. lillacluvr

    I think Clinton had that charm and appeal and the ability to make people think that he was ‘one of them’ regardless of what they labeled themselves as being.

    Republicans were afraid of Clinton because, as Iggy pointed out, Clinton could make the policies work and Repubs could not.

    But more than that, I think Republicans were so jealous that they could not see straight. So, they set out to bring Clinton down and what better way than sex?

    Everybody knew Clinton was a ladies man – so Repubs found the perfect Achilles heel.

    What made me so mad about the entire thing is –
    Clinton knew they were after him and he handed them his head on a silver platter.

    It was reported when Bill finally told Hillary, she slapped him and asked him how he could be so stupid.

    I think every self-respecting woman in America wanted to do the very same thing.

  43. Governor Opus Dei + the nutjobs in the KS legislature – won’t that combination make for some beautiful law?

    Hell, I may have to move out of here, too.

  44. PrairiePond

    “What I am recalling in the past few years when the winter starts off real cold, they tend to end earlier.”

    Dream on brother, dream on! 🙂

  45. BadAxe

    “Does anyone think it could be WORSE for the public? Is there ANYTHING left in the bills that liberals want? ”

    God, what a dissapointment! The healthcare reform bill is a joke, a farce. Without a public option and pre-existing condition ban, I’d just as soon see the whole thing crawl away and die.

    • PrairiePond

      “I’d just as soon see the whole thing crawl away and die.”

      Ditto, man, ditto.

      Especially since the whole thing was a bait and switch. Take everything good out of the bill but LEAVE the mandate to buy crappy insurance at extortion prices.

      They baited us with the good stuff, then switched to what we have now.

      And the one thing that is NEVER up for discussion is that freakin’ mandate.

      go figger…

      • PrairiePond

        The only people now in favor of this horrible legislation are the obama koolaide drinkers who just cant believe their man would deceive them in this way.

        Only the true believers remain. Well, and the congress critters who are afraid of the white house. And rahm.

  46. Lilac,
    When I heard Monica tell the story to Barbara Walters, I lost what little respect I had left for Bill Clinton. It was obvious that Monica had some serious issues, and I can’t believe that someone as good as reading a rooom as Bill Clinton, would not have seen that. He saw it and plunged ahead. I felt nothing but disgust for Bill Clinton after that.

  47. lillacluvr

    Prairie Pond – do you think Hillary will ever get back into the presidential race?

    In 2008 people were so worried about her electability but since she has become the Secretary of State, I think her reputation and favorable ratings have skyrocketed.

    Maybe Hillary should give Obama a run for his money in 2012 – or maybe that was what the plan was all along?

    Maybe Obama will quiet drop out (or pushed out) and that will allow Hillary to say ‘I told you so’.

    Now, that would be karma!

  48. The above comments brings me again to my (im)modest campaign finance reform proposal. Only human persons that are citizens are allowed to donate to political campaigns; no PACs can make donations, no independent 529s can accept them, etc. The identities of the donors must be publicly disclosed on a third-party website no more than 12 hours after the donation is received. Given these conditions, there should be no limit on the amount of goods, services and money any individual natural person can give to the candidate/party of his or her choice. No donations may be made or accepted within 12 hours before the first polls open in any election, local, county, state or presidential.

    Or, First Amendment issues pertaining thereto notwithstanding, all elections are publicly financed; no exceptions. Congresscritters cannot use their free franking ability to distribute quasi-constituent information mailings in any election year which, as we all know, are mostly thinly-disguised campaign literature anyway; and, the number of such mass mailings otherwise made during their term in office together with the costs thereof (postage and otherwise) must be made publicly available within 12 hours as stated before.

    In the case of publicly financed elections, there is an absolute limit to the amount to be expended; no loans to the campaign, etc., can be used to circumvent the limit. I know this puts a third party or parties at a disadvantage, but I do not see how, in this day and time, any third political party has any realistic chance of success any way.

    Sorry for the broken record nature of this, but I wanted to put it out there once again. 🙂

    • lillacluvr

      It needs to be brought up again and again and again until enough of us get the message.

      But do you really think this will ever come to pass – because, after all, the very people we are trying to rein in are those who will vote against the campaign finance reform.

      Now, if the Tea Party movement would be FOR this campaign finance reform and throw out ALL the bums – then I might just start listening to them and drink some of that tea.

    • PrairiePond

      617, those are all good ideas and I support them.

      But really, until the american voter wakes up and sees through the campaign lies, bought and paid for by campaign cash of course, nothing will change.

      I’m back to my point that money in the system isnt the problem. It’s voters’ willingness to be ignorant that is the problem.

      If they had any brains, their votes couldnt be bought. If they had any internal lie detector, they wouldnt let the pretty colors in the advertising sway them.

      But they wont. And it does.

  49. The healthcare reform legislation was a gift to the big insurance companies. Nothing more.

    And there was all that pretty talk about how healthcare reform was important for our economy. While the foregoing is still true, it seems to have been forgotten. How horribly sad…

    • Healthcare finance reform is important to the economy. Not that what is out there is “reform” in that area. Until and unless the current system is blown up and replaced by a true single payor system, however structured, the drain on the economy from the current system (benefits only the companies and shareholders thereof) will continue.

  50. tosmarttobegop

    When I first read it, there was shock that the Conservatives had missed an opportunity.
    That Bill Clinton was the first Democratic President in a long time that the Republicans could have worked with.

    But Partisanship got in the way and they blew it by trying to undermine him.

    Though the statement is often dismissed, the country really is center/ Right.
    Not so much on the hot button issues as with the way they live their lives.

    Fiscally conservative and prudent in their desires and realistic in their thought process.
    There is a difference in what you dream of and what you do in life.

    But I have to agree, Obama has disappointed even me.
    He is being too pragmatic, especially on health care.
    It is far too important that a major shake up is warranted and worth the total realignment of the entire system.

    To the point of truly everyone has it as a basic human right.

    His stance on Afghanistan is a day late as much so it is like the fire department responding to a house fire the following week. There is a similar complain to the thoughts of Bush and Iraq.
    Arguing that we had to do something about Saddam because of how badly he treated his people.
    But then the world has an overabundance of such leaders, what we should run around the world deposing every bad guy?

    Rectifying Afghanistan on the thought that we do not want it to be a safe haven for terrorists.
    While as with Yemen showed there is no one country that is the sole safe haven!

    • lillacluvr

      If we think we are to rid the world of leaders who mistreat their people, then why is the US in debt to China?

      My grandfather used to tell us kids that the US is stupid to be fearing the Russians, we need to fear the Chinese.

      And, sad to say, I think my grandfather was correct.

      All China has to do is pull those puppet strings and the US dances to whatever tune they want to play.

      After all, debtor nations do not tell the rest of the world what to do and how to do it.

  51. PrairiePond

    “Me, too. I just never thought he was that DUMB.”

    Hubris, pure hubris.

    No, I think Hillary’s one chance is gone. She’ll be too old for a woman to run. Given how sexist and ageist our society is, she’s “past her prime” now, as any middle aged woman knows. The Democratic party missed their opportunity. Or maybe they knew she’d be great, so they had to keep her out. Because ya know, they are pwned by the same people as the repukes.

    I think she would have been a waaaay better president than Bill. But sadly, we’ll never know. Obama made sure of that. He’s keeping the corporatist war government safe, even while it’s temporarily in Democrat hands.

    He’s just a damn caretaker until the repukes can get back in. And they will. Sooner than you think.

    • lillacluvr

      Who do you think of the Repukes will get in? I’m thinking Romney.

      If so, again – that corporatist war government will be safe.

      Of course, they will wrap it up in God, Flag, Democracy and then Yankee Doodle Dandy will be dancing across the world as a great beacon to the free world. Yeah, right.

  52. PrairiePond

    “Fiscally conservative and prudent in their desires and realistic in their thought process.”

    Dog, with all do respect, do you really, REALLY believe that most americans live that way and are like that?

    Really?

    Because the consumer debt figures dont support that the majority of americans are fiscally prudent.

    And dude, do you really think the majority of americans are “realistic in their thought processes”? Look at our country, our government, our schools, our religions, our economy, and tell that to me with a straight face.

    Because if you can? I want some of what YOU are smokin’! 🙂

  53. PrairiePond

    “If we think we are to rid the world of leaders who mistreat their people, then why is the US in debt to China?”

    I know, I know, call on me!!!!!!!

    It’s because money talks and everything else walks!

  54. PrairiePond

    “Who do you think of the Repukes will get in? I’m thinking Romney.”

    I wouldnt count out palin. Americans are just dumb enough to put her in office. Really.

    “If so, again – that corporatist war government will be safe.”

    I dont think it matters which repuke gets in. The corporatist government will still be safe.

    Ditto for any democrat that gets in.

    They are ALL owned by the same people.

    And the sheeple sleep….

    • lillacluvr

      Well, you may be right about dumb people putting Palin in – after all, they did vote for GWB twice!

      But I just don’t see Palin getting the nod from the Republican Party.

      Even Glenn Beck dissed Palin about her being a yapper and nobody even said boo to the guy. Why?

      With all her supporters, why would they allow Beck to diss her that like that?

  55. PrairiePond

    I dont know if any of you have heard of Bill Hicks. IMHO, he’s the greatest comedian of the last century, and probably this one too.

    He used to do a routine where he said he thinks that the first day in office, some “people” take every new president into a screening room, turn down the lights, and show him the Zapruder film.

    Then they turn on the lights, and say “any questions”.

    I think Bill Hicks was right.

  56. lillacluvr

    ‘Do most of the tea baggers know which group they belong to, if there are two? I don’t think so’

    fnord – I was just on Huffington Post and read an article about who is behind this Tea Party one-day strike event –

    There is a Republican strategist and another guy who is a mortgage lender whose mortgage company had been fined for some shady mortgage dealings between 2001 and 2008 (can we say mortgage fraud?).

    And, of course, Freedom Works which is run by former Republican Congressman Dick Armey. And we all remember good ole Dickie, don’t we?

    With all this Republican support, I wonder if the Tea Party movement is really about returning the country to “We the People” or is it just another tool of the Repukes to send out their little flying monkeys to do their real master’s bidding?

    • PrairiePond

      “I wonder if the Tea Party movement is really about returning the country to “We the People” or is it just another tool of the Repukes to send out their little flying monkeys to do their real master’s bidding?”

      Well, given that the whole teabagger gig is funded by the kook, I mean koch brothers, what do you think?

  57. BadAxe

    Ok, this is where I get cross-ways to everybody (again) for posting a divergent opinion:

    While I agree that the man had the morals of an ally cat, I think Clinton will be remembered as one of the greatest presidents in my lifetime. Clinton was the ultimate political player and the Repubs hated him for it, since he made them look foolish at every turn.

    John Edwards, anyone? I confess he had me fooled. I supported him during the primaries. Can you imagine what would have happened if he’d have won the nomination? Whew!

    • lillacluvr

      I don’t disagree with you and I didn’t mean to leave the impression that I thought Bill Clinton was a bad president – because he wasn’t.

      He was just a bad husband – but if we were to weed out all politicians that have the morals of an alley cat – who would be left?

  58. PrairiePond

    Isnt “freedom works” funded by the kochs?

    I think Rachel Maddow did a great piece on that.

    Oh, be still my heart….

    • lillacluvr

      Why, I do believe you’re right.

      Rachel is pure gold when she takes on Dick Armey. Have you seen her with him as the other guest on some talk shows. Rachel knows her stuff and she will not back down – from anybody.

  59. PrairiePond

    “With all her supporters, why would they allow Beck to diss her that like that?”

    Why would the democrats let KO and a hell of a lot of people diss Hillary and lie about her?

    They are afraid, VERY afraid, of a woman they dont think they can control. Palin is a loose cannon they cant control.

    And Hillary was always the smartest, most well prepared person in the room. And she had a mind of her own.

    We couldnt have that in corporatist amerika, now could we?

    • lillacluvr

      Well, that’s true. A male black president was more tolerable than a white woman president?

      As for Palin – she is a loose cannon they cannot control.

      But if she had just half of a working brain cell, I wish I could support her for nothing else than being a woman.

      But even Palin would give into the corporatists – after all, I think she quit being governor because of all those millions she could make as a private citizen.

      • PrairiePond

        Give in to the corporatists? Hell, she IS a corporatist. But she’s also too stupid to live, and that’s what I mean about they cant control her.

        I mean, she’s kinda prone to doing things and saying things that are not exactly in her best interests. And that’s how they control people. Through their “best interests”.

        She’d be too dumb to smell the coffee!

  60. PrairiePond

    I never trusted John Edwards. He had some good ideas about fixing the “two americas” issues, but he always seemed smarmy to me. Even when he ran the first time.

    Now I know why…

  61. PrairiePond

    “Have you seen her with him as the other guest on some talk shows.”

    I read somewhere that ALL of Meet the Press’ highest rated shows this past year were when Rachel was a guest.

    GIVE her the damn show already and give david gregory the door!

  62. Have we all forgotten the reason the end of the Mayan calendar falls on December 21, 2012, is Palin?

  63. We have to have publicly financed elections or we can say goodbye to this country.

    What concrete steps can one take to make this a reality?

    • lillacluvr

      First, it will take some serious educating people as to exactly why we are so divided.

      Once we get past the point of who is right and who is wrong – and see where we all have a common goal of having true represenation for everyone – then – maybe – we can get the publicly financed elections.

      But I am not too hopeful on even getting the two deeply divided groups together and agree on anything.

      But there is one way – maybe. We can make it into some sports teams that needs financing and we need to find some coaches that wants multi-million dollar contracts.

      It seems that even Republicans that don’t want to pay taxes are more than willing to pay those coaches their millions in order to have a sports team they can root for.

      Americans – you gotta love them. No money for the important things in life but for sports – there is no price too high for their wallets.

  64. PrairiePond

    Sorry to be so negative Iggy, but I wouldnt waste your time. Hell, they wont spend money to keep old people in their own homes instead of expensive nursing homes. WHY would anyone think there is any way they’d “spend money” on publicly financed campaigns? The ones doing the voting are already IN office, financed by a corporation near you! They have no reason to support this, no matter what “the people” do.

    Of course, “the people” could always recall or vote them out of office. But we’ve already discussed the collective intelligence of the american voting public.

  65. tosmarttobegop

    LOL Pond what was your answer when I asked if you had a 4X4?

    It is true that a good deal of the problems we are having is due to Cranium blockage of the sphincter muscle.
    Financial institutions that offered promised way for people to have what they could not afford.

    The Popeye’s Bruno solution of “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!”.

    But I am more referring to the average person who knows they are forced to live within their means.
    Governing their wants by their means and think more practical then like they did as a teen.

    You saw a need for a 4X4, you would like to have one because of where you live.
    But the truck is still in good shape and you still like it. So the buying of a 4X4 is waiting till a future date.
    That is what I meant…

  66. tosmarttobegop

    The other night Hannity pointed to Cheney and Palin being against the president’s terrorism efforts as a reason for everyone to be against it…. As they are the two best voices for Conservatives!

    You know, I do firmly believe that instead of a suit, Hannity really should be wearing a fright wig and a large, red, bulbous nose!

    • lillacluvr

      Hey, did Hannity ever take up Olbermann’s offer to be waterboarded to show it’s not really torture?

      Wasn’t it Cheney’s group that released those 6 Gitmo prisoners to Saudi Arabia to get art therapy for rehab and 2 of those guys helped recruit the Christmas Day bomber in Yemen?

      Oh, yeah, Cheney is the expert on fighting terrorism.

      eyes roll

  67. PrairiePond

    …and just in case you want to see how deep the disillusionment and disappointment in obama is in the DEMOCRATIC party…

    Check this out on DU. Uh, that is where loyal DEMOCRATS post. And see what they say in the comments regarding the obama administration.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×7413545

  68. WSClark

    The last president was a president for 50% of the American population. Our current president is at least TRYING to be a president for all Americans.

    Whether we like it or not, the partisan flame wars have to stop or NOTHING will ever get done – ever.

    Obama has been in office for just a year – for Christ’s sake, give the man a chance. Bush and Cheney screwed over the country for eight years. It will take far more than 365 days to repair the damage.

    It’s no wonder that so few are willing to enter public service – you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    • Zippy

      Clark, I’m going to some time to contemplate the reality of the situation–who we elected, the environment in Washington, who the major players are, and who’s stroking who.

      And it’s not all Obama, not even the White House stuff.

      The article gets it right. In my view, the best approach to take is this sit-and-wait and hope our annointed icon does the right thing. That’s a recipe for total failure. Obama is a deal maker who wants results, and the shitty healhcare bill emerging (with only conference-call consulation to House members–75 on one call!), makes it look ever more grim.

      I don’t want a bully or a monarchist, but, hey, Barry, the Consitution gives you a whole lotta power–you can overrule almost 2/3 of the Congress with a single stroke of a pen.

      A dynamic, daring Obama would play well on TV–ask Axelrod–even your enemies would eat it up. Remember Reagan. You shouldn’t be that cornball, but you have the power to act for good. You shouldn’t have to be dragged, kicking and screaming into doing what’s right.

      If you wheel and deal and come up with window dressing for the same broken system, never mind ideology–everyone will hate you!

      But for the next 4 years, you’re our only hope. I read much of what the young legislation wrote and said back in Chicago. With some tweaks, that was actually sold to the country, but you’ve been running from it ever since.

      Upshot: The PEOPLE are the CHANGE. Write. Phone. March. Make the Washington Establishment play ‘catch-up’. There may be plenty of right-wing nuts out there, but there are more of us –regular people who believe in sane concepts–that the establishment thinks.

      Change the equation.