With President Obama’s ratings getting lower on a daily basis, I’ve heard everyone is pretty much in agreement that there will be a competitive race in 2012 and reappointing Obama president by acclamation now seems very unlikely.
So, who is passing the purity tests, looking good, and will make the race competitive? Should we trust the math presented by Fox News?
fnord
PrairiePopulistsAndProgressives.net 
Them Fox News boys and girls must be using some of that ‘fuzzy math’ . I wonder if they believe in that voodoo trickle-down economics also?
Seriously, I think it will be a major battle between Palin and Huckabee in the primaries but when the actual pedal hits the metal – it will be Romney that gets the nomination by the good ole’ boys crowd to take on that golden crown of the most pure Republican.
I wonder if he will be reincarnated as Reagan? Oh, I forgot, the real Republicans don’t like Reagan now, do they?
I just had a thought. What if Obama decides to step aside and let’s Hillary Clinton get the nomination.
Of course, the Republicans would nominate Sarah Palin because they could not be outdone by the Democrats.
Just imagine what a race Hillary v Sarah would be..
Hillary would clean up the floor with little Ms Beauty Queen and maybe, just maybe, SP would finally go back to see those Northern Lights and the Russians from her house permanently?
Stranger things have happened…
I like to think about that competition!
Problem I see is that Republicans don’t live in a world of reality, if they did Palin wouldn’t be considered.
Here’s some others I think are on the radar:
Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty
South Dakota Senator John Thune
Host of MSNBC’s Morning Joe, former Florida congressman Joe Scarborough
Newt Gingrich
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels
Texas Governor Rick Perry
Haley Barbour
Indiana Congressman Mike Pence
House Minority Whip Eric Cantor
Jeb Bush
Ron Paul
Senator Jim DeMint
Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum
Many to choose from!
It will obviously be the economy that makes or breaks President Obama. Or maybe the fact that he seems detached, and although I understand he wants Congress to do their job, that isn’t how it’s been done in the past and many aren’t understanding the strategy.
The worst problem that Obama faces in reelection is that he has completely alienated the liberal wing of the Party. Hate to say this, but the liberal wing is the most active and he won’t win so easily without them, if he can win at all.
The promised change has turned out to be more of the same and it isn’t because of his political strategy. He has aligned himself with the same old players on Wall Street, within the Party and in Washington. He has not stood up for the little guy, as promised. Every opportunity he has had to turn back the abuses of the previous administration have been allowed to pass by with nary a change in behavior.
I walked in the rain to elect this man. I am not sorry that I did it because the alternative would have been far worse. But I won’t be doing it again.
I truly believed he understood what health-care reform meant, what was needed, what would be effective…
Not anymore.
I will admit that I knew that we weren’t on the same page while he was campaigning, but we were in the same chapter.
I can’t and nobody should support health insurance mandates without an option for those that can’t afford to buy them and without some sort of control on premiums. That is a bald-faced insurance company pay-off codified.
Maybe so, fnord, but he also understood what would pass (thus, no ‘single payer’, e.g.). Sorry to say, he over-estimated what could get through the Senate.
Perhaps it is time to go to Plan B (Reconciliation) to try to salvage something more palatable to many than what is in the current Senate bill.
As to the progressive wing, they’re not going to be able to elect one of their ‘chosen’ nationally any more than the ‘true Republicans’. While I believe the country has shifted politically a bit, from ‘center Right’ to ‘center Left’, the operative word in both is center. Failing to recognize that would be fatal to either party, if the opposition does recognize this fact. If both parties ignore this, then which ever group can get out their voters will win.
Sorry to disagree, but I don’t believe that the majority of the country is “centrist.” I believe that the majority of the country is uninformed, and, if properly informed, they would not be supportive of the kind of policies that “centrist” Democrats and Republicans have proposed and enacted, as those all benefit big business at the expense of the working man.
As far as who is “electable”–Bush was, twice. Maybe it is time to revisit this paradigm and find something more constructive for the nation.
Paula, touche, on bush twice. I always intend to keep that in mind and then can never again be shocked or surprised. American voters can do anything, they’ve already proven it.
Paula, just what does ‘properly informed’ mean? I’ve a feeling your construction of the term differs radically from mine, and I think we are basically on the same side.
While I think I understand whence you come, there is imo a flaw in your thinking, which has existed in mine for decades; all we have to do is give the folks proper information, and they will see just how right our candidate is, and just how wrong the other person is. As you noted, electing GWB to two terms shoots that one down.
Unfortunately, for many, it comes down to with whom they feel most comfortable, so long as their 30 second sound bites aren’t scary (whatever that means to each individual). There is a certain comfort level enjoyed by a majority of people which attaches to things not changing too rapidly, which to my mind leads to the ‘centrist’ label.
Howard Dean, imho, is dead politically as a national candidate using him as an example. Frankly, I believe Sarah Palin is, too, as she is ‘scary’ to many. There are others on both sides which occupy similar status.
Be that as it may, the fact that there is a big benefit to the insurers, et al, from what is being considered currently by the Senate does not concern many folks. Given the ongoing debate, it is hard for me to believe that the information you believe is ‘proper’ from my reading of your post is not there for consideration if the individual wants to consider it. The fact that many don’t want to is reflective of the more immediate problem of either remaining employed or becoming employed as I see it.
“Proper information” means that they understand the issues in a realistic way, sans propaganda, and how it will affect them. I disagree that people don’t care that the insurance companies are set to prosper greatly from the current legislation. I would agree that some people are not against the insurance companies prospering, as they have bought into the meme that if we make laws that benefit business, we will benefit also. HOWEVER, if you were to put it a little bit differently, if you were to explain that this bill contains language the SOLELY benefits the insurance company at the expense of the citizens of this country. If you explained to them that the insurance companies, and other special interests, WROTE THE LANGUAGE of the bill so that it would profit them, not to FIX the BROKEN system or to improve the delivery of health care to the people, I think they would side with me on this issue.
To know all the facts and to know how that will affect you and your children for generations to come, to have the big picture brought into focus in a way that you cannot ignore it–that is what I mean by “properly informed.”
The current legislation is and has been from the very beginning, a giant giveaway to corporate interests and NOT written to reform the health care system in its use or delivery to the common man. It is a boondoggle of the highest order, and this is not an opinion. It is fact and there is evidence to support it as such. At the same time that the lousy healthcare bill is going to make health care worse, it further enforces and tightens the hold that the corporatocracy has over the people of this country. It’s a double-edged sword.
I stongly believe that if the majority of the people in this country were aware of all that is going on, they would be as outraged as I am.
And if they had this picture, they would stop fearing people like Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean and side with them. The only reason Howard and Bernie are not “viable” is because the corporate superpowers, ergo the media and punditry, have deemed them so.
I refuse to conform with the meme. You may be more comfortable playing along, but I won’t stand with those that are hurting me, destroying the American dream, enslaving my children and grandchildren and beggaring my parents. This whole idea of “viability” should be questioned by all instead of given the shrug and go along treatment.
Paula,
The “American Dream” was destroyed three decades or so ago; it is just now we’re seeing the effects. It is in my mind clear that the efforts of President Nixon in his trip to China was less about seeking a peaceful end to the Vietnam war than opening China as a market. Such had many consequences, some probably unintended, and these are now ‘coming home to roost’.
To me, “proper information” using your example would consist of providing the data only, i.e., the cut and dried figures of a) current costs, profitability, and b)estimated future costs and expected profitability. Any further explanation is arguing for one side or the other.
No, I don’t like going along; if I did, I would not be opposed to “health care reform” as currently styled and presented. I perhaps am the victim of allowing the perfect to become the enemy of the good; so be it. The only reform which imho will work is a single payer system; anything else is not a reform. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best. As you point out, the current proposal is a boondoggle. I agree, but believe that to be an opinion, not a fact. What the facts are, in my opinion again, are the data I suggested earlier.
Sorry to get so wordy here; but that’s a product of my personal arrogance in believing that presented with the raw data, no one could disagree with my most reasonable and rational conclusions. 🙂
I agree that the opening up of the China markets was part of the journey toward self-destruction here in this country.
I state bluntly that the current healthcare legislation is a boondoggle because it fits the definition:
2 : a wasteful or impractical project or activity often involving graft
The very corporations that are set to benefit from this legislation have donated heavily to Congress, the Democratic Party and the President in his campaign. The very corporations that are set to benefit from this legislation are WRITING the legislation TO THEIR BENEFIT. This is not an exaggeration, this is fact.
This disagreement between the two of us, who are actually in agreement overall about the issue, is another example of the fact that the people in this country are incapable of agreeing on the FACTS of any given issue. You see the picture of Americans as lazy and apathetic as a fact. I see that as propaganda that is supported by more propaganda. I don’t know any lazy apathetic people. Even those that say they don’t keep up on everything are not doing that because they don’t care. They are doing it because they are confused, and purposefully so, about WHERE to find the correct information and WHO to listen to and HOW they can stop it. Many of them have bought into the meme that they don’t have any power to change anything or that they can’t possibly understand an issue because it is so complex or we all have to be in 100% agreeance in order to move things forward, etc, etc. Propaganda that is purposefully propounded on them at every turn. (Give up; resistance is futile. You can’t understand these things; we will take care of them for you, blah, blah, blah.)
I don’t buy any of that. You SAY you don’t. But if you simply accept as fact that any one is “unelectable” because the media deems it so, you have become part of the groupthink herd that goes along with the propagandist meme. I hear alot about “working within a framework of reality” from other so-called progressives. But some “realities” can be changed. It is precisely what the conservatives have done over the past forty years in order to gain power. It is part of what the corporatocracy does every day to keep us in line. How do they do it–common knowledge. They just float CRAP out there, repeat it until enough people have it memorized and then begin inserting it into the “official record” (public conversation) as fact.
You suggest that I am arrogant because I believe that people are uninformed and with the proper information, they would have a better grasp and therefore make a better decision. I don’t see that as arrogant; I see it as hopeful.
You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one…
Paula, I say that I am arrogant, not you.
Having been quite active during the late 60s and early 70s on a number of fronts, it may be that I’m jaded and burnt out. I don’t know.
While I appreciate John Lennon’s lyrics, I must confess that being a dreamer isn’t going to get it done. Rather, like those in opposition, it will take the grunt work, etc.,they have expended by those who agree with you and me. As mentioned above, I just don’t have the ability to do it again. Hopefully, there are many who do and can.
617,
I hope I have shown you the respect that I hold for your opinion. I understand that you are weary from the fight.
With all respect, I post the following quotes:
“You see things; and you say, ‘Why?’ But I dream things that never were; and I say, ‘Why not?’” – George Bernard Shaw
“There are some people who live in a dream world, and there are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.” – Douglas H. Everett
“If one advances confidently in the direction of one’s dreams, and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined, one will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.” – Henry David Thoreau
“Every great dream begins with a dreamer.” – Harriet Tubman
And, finally, the last one is so apt for our times:
“I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.” – Harriet Tubman
If the race were Hillary v Sarah, this country would still be a mess no matter who won. I am sorry to say that, but Hillary is part of the conservative wing of the Democratic Party. If there are any heros operating inside of the Democratic Party, they are not moderate or conservative.
I would like to see Bernie Sanders or Howard Dean run on the Democratic ticket. Now THAT would be something!
I hope this is a good link. I just read a really good article on WaPo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/16/AR2009121603640.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
It talks about the far left and the far right coming together in opposition to Obama’s policies on Afghanistan and the “healthcare” bill. (Would more aptly be named “health care industry grand prize payoff”)
Here is what Howard Dean has to say about the current health care bill.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/16/AR2009121601906.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
Howard Dean is correct. I honestly don’t understand why passing something that makes everything worse should happen. I heard Axelrod say something like the time is now, the time will never come again… And, I thought, yeah, so?
Exactly how many decades has health care reform been needed and how many politicians have promised it?
I suspect health care reform is alot like abortion and gay marriage – it is hot button issue that will rile up the people and nothing will ever be resolved.
But it sure brings in alot of beautiful money – doesn’t it?
IIRC, the concept of health care reform in the form of universal coverage has been around since the Truman Administration. Seemingly, it is a big issue approximately every 20 years.
I heard Howard Dean on Chris Matthews and Dean was advocating for the reconciliation route to pass health care reform.
Chris Matthews kept asking Dean when has reconcilation ever been used to create a new government program and Dean kept replying – we’re not creating a new program – we are just expanding Medicare. Chris then said it would not be Medicare and Dean replied – simply change the name and lower the age requirement – it’s done.
And with every time Dean responded with the same reply, Chris Matthews would not let it go.
WTF?
Maybe the rules need to be changed and let’s have reconciliation create the expansion of a current government program.
It seems quite clear that the 60 vote thing is not working (even though Democrats have the needed majority).
And perhaps the current way we do business in Washington needs to change?
That was what Obama said he would do when he was the candidate but the President Obama is too much into the sausage making of Congress details and Obama needs to start kicking some butt – in both parties.
The current way business is done in DC won’t change any time soon. The filibuster rule (cloture) was changed some time back to only require 60 votes, rather than the then-required 67, IIRC. Too many Senators desire to be considered the 60th Senator.
One thing I always need to recall; Mr. Obama received a clear majority of the Electoral College vote (the only vote that matters in a Presidential Election) but his margin in the popular vote was not as overwhelming. Work the percentages, and you will see what I mean. Senators and House Members are locally elected, there not being an Electoral College system for them; and it is in their interest personally to get reelected. Thus, in a state that Mr. Obama carried by a margin of, hypothetically, less than 1% of the popular vote, he received all its electoral votes. This is of little comfort to, e.g., a House member from the same state whose district voted overwhelmingly for Sen. McCain when it comes time to vote on issues where the support of the President is likely to alienate the Member’s district.
The ability of a President to ‘kick butt’ is, again imho, extremely limited under those circumstances. One may consider this a good or bad thing, depending upon one’s stance, but bottom line is that the Congresscritter will do what is best for his/her reelection chances most or all of the time, even if it means bucking a president of his/her own party.
Oh, heavens! It is far too early to make any guesses about 2012!
But it will take the next 3 years (and beyond) to even get traction for any candidate who is not now, or has been, a wholly-owned lobbyists’ friend.
I still think that if Ross Perot had not screwed up the third party so badly, we would not even be talking about half this crap.
And Ross Perot was right about one thing – that big sucking noise. Remember that?
I heard a couple months ago (I don’t remember where) that Joe Scarborough has the backing of some of the highest-ranking GOP members.
He has been relatively an unknown for awhile – hasn’t he?
He is on MSNBC and he was a former Republican Representative that came in during the Newt Gingrich ‘Contract On America’ wave of popularity.
As for Jeb Bush – I don’t think another Bush would be able to get in this soon.
Some of the others on fnord’s list have their own personal and/or political problems that might be a hindrance to their aspirations to become president.
I think what we need is someone who is totally unknown and who will kowtow to no one. But then the rub is – this type of person will never win because the entire political system is corrupt.
We need to start kicking out the Senators and Representatives one by one until we have cleaned house.
BTW – I read where John McCain and Cantwell (?) are trying to reinstate the Glass Seagall Act.
Why is McCain always a day late and a dollar short?
It is interesting, though, that no Democratic Senator took on this sponsorship first.
You’re spot on there 6176.
And I know ‘kicking butt’ is not ever going to hapen – in both parties – but it felt good to say it (even if it is just daydreaming).
Could be because both parties have benefited from all the mess that both parties have made in the past two decades and even before that.
It could indeed be that very thing.
The President is facing the same fate as the husband who wife feels he never puts in to making the marriage and the relationship more interesting. She is always the one who arranges the outings and she is always the one who’s idea it is to go out for the evening.
Finally one night he states they are going out for diner, she is elated that finally he is taking the lead.
Only to find herself in the car waiting in line at the drive through lane at McDonald’s.
The President’s idea of change is beginning to seem less then other’s idea of change.
It is becoming the point of being laughable when I hear of how Liberal Obama is.
His idea of acceptable change is fair more modest then one would imagine.
Very Conservative and seeming happy to have solved smaller problems.
While some of the major ones are made worst.