Thursday, 11/12/09, Public Square

Independents ObamaAre many of us expecting too much too quickly?

Some days I think the many complaints we hear just might need to be ignored, and always they need to be put into proper perspective.  Seek the truth.  Personal attack and reflexive stonewalling aren’t good ways to reclaim power.  Yet, that’s the tactic we see every day from the opposition.  Our plan should be to rise above that level and make sure we work together in a positive manner.   Government can work for us and we can employ positive means to encourage that happening.



Filed under The Public Square

71 responses to “Thursday, 11/12/09, Public Square

  1. David B

    People don’t understand how very limited are the powers of the President of the United States.

  2. My disappointment in Obama does not come from what he has or has not been able to accomplish. It stems from the choices that he has made in cabinet positions and decisions that he has made on how to go about getting certain things done.

    My expectations are not unreasonable. I expect him to do what he said that he would do when he campaigned: stand up for the little guy, end the war, make healthcare a right and not a privilege.

    You can’t give in to Wall Street and say you are standing up for the little guy. You can’t give my healthcare choices away or make insurance mandatory with no public option and say that you are making healthcare a right or that you are standing up for the little guy. We are not out of Iraq, Obama has NOT done enough to roll back the overstepping that Bush created in the President’s office. Obama has NOT done anything to make sure that torture is abolished and, as a matter of fact, his office has stated that it will not do away with rendition. He has stood in the way of making people who instituted torture accountable for their actions.

    The powers of the Presidency are limited, but Bush expanded them and Obama has done little to shrink them back to what they were. There are certain things that the President has the power to do and Obama has not done them.

    Perhaps he is waiting for a second term. If that is the case, then shame on him for putting politics over people.

    I’m not saying that I don’t support Obama at all, but I am saying that the criticism of the liberal branch of the Democratic party that is coming from the moderate and conservative parts of the party is undeserved. They are happy, what need have they to complain or be angry? But I worked just as hard as they did to get this President elected and I have a right to complain when I don’t believe that he is living up to his promises or when I don’t believe he is serving the best interests of the people that put him there.

  3. tosmarttobegop

    Both parties can not seem to shake the old “always worked before” of Politics.
    Where it does not matter if you sink or float in anything you do, what choice does the people have?

    One party or the other rises to power on the wave of public discontent, once there they suffer from hubris and ride along on “Oh you like me… You really like me!”.

    That is until the next election then its,
    “ OH I thought you really liked me?”.
    The Cons have an ally with the progressive as many are becoming so discontent with the Administration.
    Threatening to withhold support and votes, yet if so they will aid in sinking the Democratic in power.

    Granted there is no one size fits all candidate or elected official, which means ending up voting for the closest to your thoughts. But the average person looks not so much at what is accomplished but rather how things are being done.

    The current efforts are showing disconnects and lack of vision, madmen in the meeting rather then direction.

    So why vote for anyone who seem to get lost every time they come out of the bathroom?

    And indecision as to why they went in to do what every brought them into the bathroom in the first place!

    I once said of a hated vice President of production where I was working.

    “He is clueless as to what should be done or even what is to be accomplished but he at least makes a decision as wrong as it may be.”.

    People are like that, they want someone making a decision to be informed and thoughtful.

    But they only respect them when they actually make the decision.

    The reality is that we the people have a short memory, as hard as it maybe to believe.

    That is could be so short that it will only take a couple of years to forget the eight years of Bush&Co.

    It will not matter what the other side has said or done, it will only matter that they are the other side of the party in power.

    • I don’t hold with the idea that progressives are hurting Obama. I don’t hold with the idea that we aren’t allowed to criticize the President or his actions or we help the conservative cause.

      I believe it is the right and duty of all to criticize, when that criticism is legitimate and constructive. Our elected leaders need to hear from us now more than at any time because when they don’t hear from us, they listen to the monied special interests.

      I’ve said it all along: first you get them elected, then you hold their feet to the fire. If holding their feet to the fire has to get really ugly and loud, it’s not my fault but the stubborness of the politician in question who refuses to listen until I scream. He/she is there for me, not the other way around.

      I am not one of those that likes someone who makes stupid decisions. I like people who make intelligent decisions based on facts and evidence. I haven’t forgotten where we have been, and I don’t think there are any progressives who do. I will speak only for myself when I say that I believe Obama is a moderate and he will have to be pushed to the left. I am pushing because I believe it is necessary to do so.

      • tosmarttobegop

        There is a problem my aunt who was a Congressional aid at one time said.
        The Congressmen and Senators only seem to hear from the extreme and the special interest.
        They look toward the average American and there is disinterest and silence.

        Then they look to where the noise is coming from and often it is where the noise is coming from is who they go with. Few are willing to take the time to speak up and those who do are seen as extremists since they are the one who are motivated.

        LOL yeah our Kansas reps sure look at me as a kook! Thanking me for my interest but never addressing me calling them idiots?

  4. I heard just a snippet of a news cast yesterday saying some Republicans, including DeMint, are introducing legislation on term limits.

    My first thought was this is an attention grabbing ploy, one that they don’t intend to work very hard at or see to fruition.

    But, if THEY — whoever THEY were and whatever party THEY represented — were serious about this, and more importantly serious about limiting the abuses that every member of Congress accepts as normal operating procedure and get worse the longer they are there, those legislators would have my support! No matter what state THEY represent there would be something I could do to help.

    Is it that only crooks run for elected office? Or does our system turn them into crooks?

    • I think the corrupt system corrupts people when they get there. If you had ideals to start with and when you got there you realized that you can’t make any progress unless you play the game, you would play the game. In playing the game, you become corrupted.

      We need to reverse the Supreme Court decision that money is the same as speech in campaign financing. We need to make laws that equate lobbying with bribery. Term limits might be good, too.

      I have this idea that congress and senate could be filled by a lottery system. Citizens of states whose names are pulled have to serve a term in office. Then they go back to their lives after that term. It isn’t democratic, but then I am not so sure that the system we currently have is as democratic as we would all like to believe.

  5. fnord….it is egomaniacs and/or people with ideals who soon are corrupted by the system that says if you can’t beat em, join em or you’ll get run over.

  6. It’s funny you should mention your idea of a lottery, Paula. My hubby has always said those positions should be responsibilities of citizens. He proposes a draft much like the military draft of old. All employers realize all Americans are subject to this draft and jobs are protected while they serve their country. There is no money, there is no power, there are responsibilities to be handled, and it is every citizens duty if called.

    When I ask about minimum competency requirements he has some words to describe the lack of competency of people who currently are elected to those positions.

    He has been a proponent of this idea as long as I’ve known him.

  7. On another subject — I am so tickled about Lou Dobbs leaving CNN and going to Fox! I think Fox deserves him, and he will feel right at home with a network not so concerned with news as they are personal opinions, stirring the pot, seeing who else they can hate…

    • lilacluvr

      I read where Fox said they were not in talks to get Dobbs. Has that changed?

      I would not be surprised if Dobbs went to Fox; but you know, Fox has begun to fact check some of their key people and if Dobbs were to ever get fact-checked, I wonder how he would come out?

    • I don’t know if there has been a change and Fox isn’t so interested. I’m just glad he’s leaving CNN! They don’t need to say they’re a news network and employ someone like him!

      I do appreciate this story on Dobbs from The Onion. 🙂

      U.S. Deports Lou Dobbs

      • lilacluvr

        It was quite a surprise the way Dobbs quit, wasn’t it?

        I used to listen to Lou Dobbs when he made sense. Whatever happened to this guy? I know it was basically about the illegal immigrants but somehow all his rage got pointed at the immigrants themselves – never the corporations that were bringing them in…

        And, sorry to say, I think illegal immigration is something that both parties favor.

    • Did you see this clip from The Daily Show that illustrates the fact that Fox News is nothing more than a propaganda arm of the republican right wingnuts?

      Fox gets caught using footage from the larger rallys and lying about how many showed up for the latest rally. How much evidence does one country need to see in order for them to realize that they are being lied to and used? Can Congress please pass a law that the word “News” can’t be used to describe just any old television show? Perhaps there might be journalistic standards that must be met?

      • lilacluvr

        I just read on the Huffington blog that Sean Hannity admitted that Jon Stewart caught them using the wrong video and it was just a mistake.

        Yeah, right.

        But, I’m surprised Rupert Murdoch even allowed Sean Hannity to admit they used the wrong video. This opens this particular can of worms for all future ‘news’ stories – doesn’t it?

      • “This opens this particular can of worms for all future ‘news’ stories – doesn’t it?”

        And casts doubt on all past “news” stories.

  8. lilacluvr

    I’m all for term limits but what is wrong with simply taking away all the perks of the current elected officials?

    Why can’t we taxpayers, as their bosses, elect to reduce their salaries, take away those limos, that gold-plated health care plan and other perks of the job?

    And then we limit the amount of dollars and the time to spend on their campaigns.

    When I heard of the huge amount in the millions in last week’s election and these were for jobs that did not pay near what the candidate spent to get that job.

    Something is wrong when Bloomberg spends $160 million to get a third term as mayor of New York City?

    • lilacluvr

      Hey, I figure if any corporation can come in and take away health care benefits, reduce their employees’ pay – then taxpayers should be able to do the same to their elected officials.

      Maybe then these elected officials will know what it is like to be the ‘little guy’ in this society.

      • You’re absolutely right, but we don’t have a mechanism in place. Unfortunately, the way it is all set up, they police themselves and make their own employment decisions (salary, benefits, etc.).

        We need to figure out how to get a mechanism in place to put citizen’s power back in play.

    • wicked

      Here, here, lilac! Is it any wonder they want to stay in office? Add all the “outside incentives” they’re offered from lobbyists, and I’m not sure I’d want to leave it either. 🙂

  9. lilacluvr

    What does everyone think about Obama’s rejecting all Afghanistan options and wanting to know our exit strategy before deciding what to do?

    I’m sure the Republicans are loving this – because then they can say he is not listening to the military generals and putting our country in harm’s way.

    Funny, I remember Bush not listening to his generals in Iraq. In fact, didn’t Bush get rid of several of those generals that were telling him things he did not want to hear?

    And, of course, we all know what the Republicans did to Colin Powell.

    I just read on Huffington Post that Colin Powell has advised Obama to take his time to make his decision on Afghanistan.

  10. lilacluvr

    Paula – I agree 100%. I’ve often said that each elected official should be treated like a freshman at college.

    Let’s build dormitories and make a Democrat and a Republican live as dorm roommates for the entire time of their elected office.

    I’m tired of these people going down to Washington DC and buying the mini mansions in Virginia with their wives getting those overpaid jobs in the government.

    Wow, talk about double dipping!

    • Wow, talk about double dipping!

      At least double–they work more angles than that, even! How do they look at themselves in the mirror and justify their corrupt lives?

      (maybe they buy mansions without mirrors)

      • lilacluvr

        Some of them, sad to say, actually go to a church on C Street and their preacher tells them that God wants them to live lavish lives. They deserve that lifestyle because God has put them into that position of power.

        Did I mention some people are just plain nuts?

  11. There are no good routes to take on Afghanistan. President Obama is attempting to weigh all the advice, and come to some decision that may be better for all the people involved. A very tough spot he’s in, and he will be criticized no matter what he does (of course, this criticism isn’t limited to decisions of foreign policy).

    I too want him to take his time — it really is that important!

    • I saw a report on television that one of the reasons that Obama isn’t in a rush to make a decision is that the last “surge” (if you don’t mind the use of the word) of troops only recently arrived and the military hasn’t had time to analyze the effects of that yet.

      You don’t hear Katie Couric add that little piece of information into her story when “reporting” on the issue, though, do you?

      I’m with you, fnord. I would rather Obama take the necessary time to properly analyze the situation. An exit strategy is an important piece of the puzzle to know, isn’t it?

      • lilacluvr

        I’m with you both. I want Obama to take his time and figure out every angle and see what is best for us – not some political party – but for the country.

        I’m somewhat divided on Afghanistan. I see the need for us to be there in view of the situation in Pakistan. But, I don’t want to see us continue the needless loss of lives if there is no way to exit this war.

        But one thing is certain, their politicians in Afghanistan and Pakistan cannot be trusted – obviously.

        Here’s a thought , if the reporting of all the drugs coming out of Afghanistan is true and that is how the enemy is bankrolling their fighting – then wouldn’t we be doing a better of job of fighting this enemy if we got our Americans who are buying these drugs clean and sober so their customer base will dry up?

        But, of course, that will take taxpayer money toward the health care of all Americans and the GOP will have none of that – will they?

  12. lilacluvr

    You know what? If these tea partiers were serious about taking our government back from both parties – then I would probably join them.

    But from what I’ve seen of their signs and their yelling, they only see Obama and the Democrats as the enemy.

    Mark Williams, the tea party featured talk radio speaker, stated that their movement is also against Republicans.

    But if it is in, then I fail to see any mention of any Republican in all the tea party costumed characters and signs.

    Maybe they say they are against Republicans the same way that Fox News say they are ‘fair and balanced’.

    You betcha!

  13. Today, there is very little reason for elected officials to live outside the area they are supposed to represent. They can meet every day of the world via computers. If you spread them out they would both be more visible to their constituents, perhaps more accountable, and it would be more difficult for lobbyists — they would have to travel, they would have to meet one on one instead of in groups. We would see who was visiting their offices and who was trying to buy them!

    • lilacluvr

      You bring up a very good point. But I would still like to see Todd Tiarht be required to share a room with Barney Frank.

      Now, that I would pay money to see!

    • I think the idea of the Congress meeting away from home was intentional on the part of the Founders. This would remove the government officials from the wrath of the populace if they needed to take action that might be unpopular in one area, although overall good for the country. They did not contemplate the lobbyist industry, of course.

  14. I agree, Lilac, about the teabaggers. I’ve heard some say it started as a grassroots movement of the people and with the goal of addressing what’s broken with the system. But, long ago they were taken over by Republican activists (Koch among them!). Today they represent the worst of the Republican Party.

    Sadly, I don’t think most of the teabaggers have a clue that anything has changed or that they are being used. Ill-informed and mad, fed by hate, a mob mentality that is extremely dangerous has been born.

    • lilacluvr

      And what is really sad is the fact that most of these teabaggers do not see how silly and crazy they look on television – do they?

      A surefire way to get people to not listen to your ideas is to become such a spectacle that no one gets past the multiple tea bags hanging around your hat.

      And, whoever is the person that rides that horse in that costume needs to be told to stay at home.

      And that abortion truck just needs to have their tires deflated and a good paint job.

  15. To change the way the members of Congress are compensated, etc., it will be necessary to adopt a Constitutional amendment. Since it would be highly unlikely the folks in D.C. would act, it would be necessary to hold a Constitutional convention. Given the lack of particularity in the Constitution as to any limits on such a convention, much more harm than good could come from such.

    The Founders were distrustful of the general populace, thus the restrictions on democracy in the Constitution, some of which have been removed by subsequent amendment. They, of course, never contemplated the class of professional politicians that has evolved over time.

    • wicked

      That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

      While it’s true that the above was about the Colonies’ fight for independence from Britain, we seem to be coming full circle. The problem is that the country is too divided to fight the form of government we have and correct what needs to be corrected.

      Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

  16. Refresh my memory, please. A Constitutional amendment would first have to pass both houses of Congress by a two-thirds majority and then isn’t there a test of the states too? Highly unlikely all those tests could be met! This term limits amendment DeMint and team are proposing would be a Constitutional amendment, wouldn’t it, requiring all those same tests?

  17. Amending the constitution does indeed take 2/3 affirmative vote of both houses of Congress, followed by ratification by 3/4 the states.

  18. lilacluvr

    Does anyone know offhand how long DeMint has been in Congress?

    I’m wondering if this proposed term limit legislation is just another Republican scam to make the Democrats look bad if and when the Democrats shoot this down?

    That way, DeMint and his other gang of Waterlooers can point their fingers and say this is why voters need to return the ‘real’ Republicans to fight the eternally evil Democrats.

    Politics as usual.

    • I don’t think it matters how long he’s been there, you’ve accurately stated his intention.

      No member of Congress is going to cut their own throat, let alone 2/3 of them. He knows how safe it is to tout this ‘idea.’

      • Plus, even if 2/3 both houses of Congress would go along, I have the opinion that there would not be 3/4 the states ratifying, especially given the number of states that are the recipients of earmarks or pork projects, the availability of which is greatly dependent upon the seniority of their House members and Senators.

  19. lilacluvr

    I just did a Bing search on Jim DeMint and it was quite an interesting bit of reading.

    He was a Congressman from 1999 to 2005 and then became a Senator.

    He joined his buddy David Vitter in voting against Hillary Clinton for becoming Secretary of State.

    He has made some very ugly remarks about homosexuals and single women living with their boyfriends should not be allowed to be teachers.

    He has also advocates for school prayer (Christian, no doubt – the article did not say).

    And for illegal immigrant – he wants each of them to go back to their foreign homelands and apply for legal citizenship – he does not beleive in the Guest worker program.

    And, this my friends, is just a few of the many things that I can remember. You just need to go to this guy’s Wikipedia site and see for yourself.

    Sounds like he is a winner – isn’t this guy a member of the C Street group?


    I recall this, and with some regret see that (as I believed at the time) this was going to occur. Had the administration done the “cram down” (a term of art borrowed from my Bankruptcy brethern), much more good would have been done.

    As it now stands, the program is failing, will continue to fail, and the banks will continue to have a large REO (real estate owned) item on their balance sheets, further threatening bank stability. Chances are, more banks will be declared insolvent, with additional FDIC funds going to the depositors thereof, all of which will be at a greater cost to the taxpayers (and the bondholders, BTW) than if this had been structured to a principal reduction.

    • Paul Krugman had some different ideas at the time as well. Here is a quote from the story at huff post:

      “I think the Obama administration has made a big mistake. The administration’s plan went about as badly as I foresaw, possibly even worse,”…They’ve barely modified any loans, and those they have haven’t done any good.”

      “I don’t fathom the logic of their plan,” Geanakoplos says, looking back. “I can’t figure out who it’s going to help.”

      It helped the very people that caused this problem to begin with but didn’t help the little guy that Obama promised to help. It’s one of the reasons that I am disappointed with Obama’s performance. Perhaps that was not his intention, but you shouldn’t have a wolf guarding the sheep if it is your intention to protect the sheep. These plans were all invented by insiders. The working man needs real relief from the system that the rich man set up to screw him.

      • lilacluvr

        I wonder why Obama picked Summers and Geithner (sp?) to head his economic team.

        Weren’t these two very cozy with the Wall Street CEO’s that we are now supposedly being so bold with to make them change their ways?

      • “I wonder why Obama picked Summers and Geithner (sp?) to head his economic team.”

        You and me both. There were so many others that were qualified and had not been party to making the mess that we are in. It did not bode well, I thought at the time. Summers has been heinously wrong in the past and Geithner is very cozy with Wall Street. Obama hired way too many insiders.

        The funny thing at the time was to hear the neo cons go on about Obama being socialist while he employed for his cabinet two of the biggest pro-capitalist (read free-marketeers) people you could imagine right off the bat. THAT defies logic. (But then logic doesn’t apply with these folks, does it)

  21. lilacluvr

    Here’s a bit of irony – DeMint replaced a Congressman who kept his promise of holding 3 terms.

    I wonder if DeMint ever made that pledge to term limit himself?

    But, of course, our own dear Todd ran on the same term limit pledge but somehow forgot he ever said those words, huh?

  22. If the current rise of commodity prices and the run-up in the stock market have puzzled you, too, take a look at this warning, which should be heeded:

  23. This should give us all pause. BTW, this sounds perfectly logical (the fact that it is going on) to me.;jsessionid=4615DBE917230D691A6F3DCDC5CDABD2?diaryId=3397


    I’ve often said that one of the biggest threats to our Republic was the existence and power of organized religion.

    • lilacluvr

      What is preventing the Catholic Church from continuing their social services to the community even if they are not connected to the government programs.

      After all, isn’t that what churches are supposed to be doing – helping those less fortunate than the rest of us in our society?

      But, then again, if they did their social services work on their own – then they would not have all that access to that political power – would they?

      6176- you’re right – the biggest threat to our Republic is organized religion.

      I wonder if God cares if the Catholic Church is partners with the city or if God just wants the church people to help others???

    • Ahhhhh-THIS is the danger of mixing religion and government coming to a head! Who will blink, do you think?

      This mess will only get worse, I predict, until the LIE that is the “Faith-based Initiative” is completely dismantled. Churches are so wealthy you could not possibly imagine it (I have seen it with my own eyes-thoroughly disgusting the way they run themselves as businesses and run businesses as tax free ventures)! Taxpayers are already funding them if they are churchgoers. But that apparently wasn’t enough for the churches so they have strong-armed they way into the government coffers.

      Don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you, Catholic Church! (PS: Catholic Bishops: stay out of my healthcare decisions, while you’re at it!!)

  25. lilacluvr

    Weren’t we just discussing the Tea Party movement this morning? Seems there is trouble in paradise…..

    I thought ‘real’ Republicans do not believe in frivolous lawsuits?


    Tea Party Civil War? Lawsuit, GOP Friction Splits Leaders
    – The Huffington Post | Lila Shapiro
    First Posted: 11-12-09 12:19 PM | Updated: 11-12-09 01:59 PM

    Some major cracks have emerged in the “Tea Party” movement’s leadership.

    In October, Amy Kremer, a founder and top staffer for the Tea Party Patriots (whose activists swarmed health care town halls last summer), was forced out of the group for joining a second, more “moderate” Tea Party organization — the Tea Party Express. Now, the Tea Party Patriots have filed a lawsuit against Kremer and issued a temporary restraining order because she tried to lock down TPP resources on her way out.

    The Tea Party Patriots describe the conflict with Kremer as an “intellectual property” dispute. On Kremer’s personal blog, (about me: “A genuine Southern Belle with a passion for life, politics and current events… Oh yeah, did I say I am a conservative?!?”) she writes that the lawsuit is “frivolous.”

    It truly saddens me that TPP leadership is expending an enormous amount of time and resources to pursue a frivolous lawsuit against me when this could have been resolved amicably, which I tried to do. Personally, I believe that the people of this movement would not want any time and money focused on a frivolous lawsuit, but would rather have these resources focused on fighting the socialist agenda of the current administration.
    Dave Weigel, who has been reporting on this story since it began, noted in October the growing friction between the Tea Party Patriots and the Tea Party Express. The Tea Party Patriots is a grassroots organization, while the Tea Party Express is a more corporate “astroturf” offshoot of the conservative Our Country Deserves Better PAC:

    “As an organization, we do our best to be completely nonpartisan,” said Mark Meckler, a national coordinator for Tea Party Patriots. “That’s one of things that’s allowed us to survive when we were called Republican tools. Tea Party Patriots are very dissatisfied with the Republican Party — we have nothing against Our Country Deserves Better PAC, but they raise money for Republicans.”
    If this wasn’t enough tea party drama for one day, Eric Odom, a conservative online organizer and key player in forming the original tea party movement last spring, has announced he’s re-joining the Republican party.

    Though Odom has no intention of supporting the current crop of Republicans (and proudly asserts that he will work to defeat many of them), he is making his 2010 stand from within the Republican Party, “Love or hate the Republican Party, it’s our only vessel in the short term. We either unify through it and make a stand strong enough to stop this madness in government, or we fracture over third party efforts and meet uncertain political demise.”


    Well, well, well……

    I recall hearing about the other officer involved either the day of or the first day after the incident at Ft. Hood. So much was made about this, I felt sure I had heard wrong.

    • And I heard on the first day that two other people had been arrested in connection with the shootings. What ever happened with THAT? I know I heard it and I haven’t been all over this story like I usually would be, but nobody I have talked to even knows what I am talking about when I ask them about this.

      Was I hallucinating? Don’t think so…

  27. lilacluvr

    I remember about the two people that were being held and then let go later. I heard it on MSNBC.

    As for the white female and the black male cops being the two that brought the suspect down, I saw them on Oprah last night and when Oprah said something about a bullet grazing her head as she was facing the suspect, this woman corrected her and said that a bullet did not graze her head and that her knuckle had been hit while she was loading her gun (or something to that effect).

    This white female cop looked puzzled when Oprah was talking about her head being grazed and I do give the female copy credit for setting the record straight.

    But this incident happened a week ago, why are there still false details being reported about this? This should have all been cleared up by now – I would think.

    Unless the military knows that it plays better to certain audiences when there is a short little white female cop being the warrior of justice to bring down that evil Muslim man.

    • Yep.

      One would think the military would learn, but the same mistakes are repeated again and again.

      • lilacluvr

        I especially like the Conservative Republicans trying to float the idea that the military is so politically correct that they allow Muslims to do whatever they want.

        WTF?? I wonder if these brainless dittoheads even think about who was in the White House when this suspect was doing all those emails to that Muslim cleric?

        And who is it in the White House now that has ordered a complete inventory of all the emails of this suspect’s?

        Hmmmm…..again, certain audiences like the fake stories that are spoon fed to them so they can all feel safe and protected.

  28. Take a look at the link; it is well worth watching. Note: you need to be patient while this loads.

  29. That’s some jumping! And some grace, dexterity and coordination… Ah, youth.

  30. For all of you who lunched together today — thank you! Stimulating conversation, and even when we were all talking at once or we changed the topic mid-stream we all kept up and all understood. 🙂 Crazy libaruhls. For those who weren’t there, we missed you and know you would have fit right in and added much. Next time!

    I wish we could do with keyboards what we do in person! We need practice! 🙂

  31. tosmarttobegop

    Well my son got back to the States this morning, the plane had to land at a civilian airport 300 miles away from Bragg. He has been sleeping ever since getting home to the wife and daughters.

    Glad he made it and will see him at Christmas.

  32. tosmarttobegop

    Kind of a long story but was funny as Hell when I witnessed it.

    Two males were robbing a Dillon’s on I think it was Central, the Police arrived and an officer was taking up a place toward the corner of the building. when the two men came rushing out and came face to face with the officer.

    The older of the two men lifted his hand gun and was shot by the officer.
    His partner who was only 18 rushed back into the store, about the time that all the employees and customers were lowing their hands. As he rushed pass they shot their hand back up!
    He got to the back door and it was barred and double padlocked. He emptied his hand gun into the lock but they did not give.

    He finally realized that there was no way out, so he lifted his own arms into the sky and walked through the store. LOL Once again as he passed the employees and customers they too reached for the sky!
    He announced he was unarmed and surrendered to the awaiting Police.

    OK now the funny part I witnessed, the wounded robber was taken to the hospital and his wounds were treated and he arrived at the jail with the very same officer who had shoot him. She was stocky and other then the ear rings she did not have a great deal of famine attributes. But she was a woman none the less.

    He did not seem to be offended by being shot and in fact seem to think it was kind of funny how it happened. He was saying that he would like to talk to the officer who shot him and apologize for being stupid.

    I pointed to the officer and told him there she was!
    He turned and stared at the female officer for a few seconds then exclaimed “He is a wearing ear rings?
    When did the Police start allowing officers to wearing ear ring?”.

    I said female officers have always been allowed to wear ear rings.

    He stopped dead in his actions and then shouted, “OH HELL NO I WAS NOT SHOT BY A WOMAN!”.
    Oh now he was offended….

  33. wicked

    It was good to see you all today, even if it wasn’t for long. I did get the errands done and was back home before my daughter’s online class started. Trying to watch a 2-year-old while attending class is not the best atmosphere for learning. 🙂 (No, not her child. Her sister’s.)

    I keep thinking a time will come when I can thumb my nose at responsibilites and do whatever I want. Unfortunately this week is not even close to that time. Looking at my list of To Do’s, there may not be time to breathe until February. (sigh)

  34. Zippy

    Skimming the thread, I will only say this much: give Obama patience on issues that require patience (heavy lifting, if it were), and give him praise when he deserves it (e.g. his push to update the power grid, which usually doesn’t get mentioned).

    Then there are things that simply deserved to be condemned, period. I could have given Obama a free pass for Eric Holder’s actions were it not his own endorsement of un-American kangaroo courts earlier in the year. I was nonetheless heartened to heart that Khalid Shaik Mohammed would given a fair trial, like anyone else accused of a heinous crime.

    Well, it seems the reason Mohammed is entitled to American justice is that they know they have an airtight case. For other detainees–including child-detainee Omar Khadr–kangaroo justice suffices.

    Read it and (literally) weep:

    This utterly un-American bullshit should have been left behind in the Bush years.