Tuesday, 08/25/09, Public Square

liberal-definitionfnord

31 Comments

Filed under The Public Square

31 responses to “Tuesday, 08/25/09, Public Square

  1. Okay, legions, get over to bearmans place and do some postinating. His latest is hilarious.

  2. I only become stingy and mean when there is only one slice of apple pie left 🙂

  3. tosmarttobegop

    One of the revelations from studying up on the Neo-Conservative movement.
    They actually consider themselves the true Liberals. Irving Kristol and the founders often argued with the American Socialists that they were the true Socialist in America too.

    It is interesting to look into the changes that terms have over time.
    In the late forties the more Socialist wing of the Democratic party became alarmed over the direction the party was going. Moving away from more Socialist ideology to more Social ideology.

    FYI you all can have them back any time now, let them screw up the Democratic party like they did the Republican party! Kidding!…. Kind of… would not wish them on my worst enemy!

  4. tosmarttobegop

    Watching this again it brought up a interesting question in my mind. In which role would these Neo-Conservatives have been more dangerous? In the role of Government or in the role of educators?

  5. I don’t think you need to worry about them wanting to be a part of the Democratic Party. They all seem to share the thoughts that America has the right to military dominance and partly that’s because their idea of America is a Christian theology. I don’t see a theology being a part of the Democratic Party platform any time soon. Plus, the neo-cons also don’t tolerate minority races — again, the Democratic Party is made of people of every color, every religion, every sex, sexual persuasion. Too many members of the Democratic Party are too different to be accepted by the neo-cons!

  6. tosmarttobegop

    “partly that’s because their idea of America is a Christian theology”

    I have to split hairs on that one Fnord, the only value the Neo-Conservatives would see in a theology is the order factor. Otherwise they see religion as nothing more than a popular myth and a tool to be used.
    They joined forces with the Religious right in order to gain the voting strength the Neo lack on their own.
    But to their danger as all it takes is one slip up and you would agree these Neo have a thinking problem.

    Much like what happened in the late forties, moving from a more conservative socialist ideology.
    The Democratic party currently seem to be moving more toward the Conservative center.
    The Blue dogs maybe more a foretelling of the future of the Democratic party then a exception to it.

    To the credit, the Democratic party is more accepting of differing views then the Republicans.
    The down side of being more accepting is it gives a foothold to ideas outside of the establishment.
    The Neo-Conservatives when they first changed side was seen more a victory for the GOP.
    We lured Lefties to the Right side we won hurray! Their ideas were not accepted through for the most part.
    But the longer then remained the more their ideology caught a foothold till now it is so ingrained it will be almost impossible to separate.

    I still worry of their influences and a point of order is that not all of them are GOP.
    Hillary herself espoused many of their ideas and thought processes.

    • Of course, you’re right! I should have known! You were my teacher, after all. The neo-cons do use religion in their propaganda, especially end-of-world propaganda with regard to the Middle East, and protection of Israel.

      • lilacluvr

        Isn’t fear and intimidation the Neo Conservatives’ preferred method of controlling the peasants?

        When the Religious Right grew into such a strong voting block within the GOP, I knew at some point in time there would be a day of reckoning for all the reasonable, moderate and truly fiscally responsible Republicans to either have a battle with the RR and Neo Cons or simply abandon their party.

        Look at prominent Republicans like Colin Powell – how many times has Rush Limbaugh called Powell a racist because he came out in support of Obama?

        RR and the Neo Conservatives do not tolerate any non-adherence to the toeing the party line.

        Didn’t Hitler start out that way?

  7. tosmarttobegop

    We teacher each other Fnord!

  8. wicked

    These guys are just plain scary.

  9. tosmarttobegop

    “Isn’t fear and intimidation the Neo Conservatives’ preferred method of controlling the peasants?”

    One of Leo Strauss’s theories is “The unwashed masses need a enemy, either real or imagined to focus their natural tendency to aggression. Otherwise the masses will turn their natural aggression on the ruling class”.

    In that same light there is what Herman Goering said:
    “There is a difference” I pointed out, “In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare war,”.

    “Oh that’s all well and good, but voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders, that is easy.
    All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of Patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country“.

    From an interview conducted by Gustave Gilbert a German speaking intelligence officer and Psychologist given access to Nazi Reich marshal Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials.

    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp

    And yes if you are thinking it, the Neo-Conservatives did admire the Nazis.

  10. tosmarttobegop

    OK one point to the anti health care argument, if passed as read the public option would pay for abortions.
    Referring to the Hyde amendment that ban the use of federal tax dollars to fund abortion.
    There is a amendment in the purposed health care bill that refers to the Hyde amendment and re-enforces its exceptions to the use of Federal tax dollars to fund abortions. In the case of a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest and in the case of saving the life of the mother. Abortion is covered under both the Hyde amendment and the public health care.

    I have not checked yet but the last post I left on that other blog asked the question if anyone objected to abortions in those conditions? I am sure Granny will repeat her reading somewhere that the excuse of saving the mother life has been proven false. I will not be surprise to see some disingenuous answers too.

  11. David B

    Turn to CSPAN now.. Democratic town Hall on Health Care any minute…

  12. wicked

    Thanks for the heads-up, David! I’m watching now. If only the request for civility and respect is acknowledged, but it sure doesn’t sound like it will be.

    If people don’t want to hear facts, they should stay home and bury their heads back in the sand, not boo and heckle. They only appear as the fools they are.

  13. David B

    Just wait until Howard Dean speaks… this is his issue. He owns it. He will own the anti’s as well.

  14. wicked

    My family is ready to have me committed. I’m yelling at people in the audience. LOL

  15. David B

    Good for you! Your commitment to the institution will be covered!

  16. David B

    Our old friend… sigh

  17. I got here late! Mother came for dinner. I have become my parents parent. It’s OK, she did a find and dandy job for many years and I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    So did Howard Dean do the issue justice?

  18. wicked

    Yes, fnord, I’d say he did.

    Randall Terry, on the other hand, did the usual and made an ass of himself.

  19. wtf? Randall Terry? Well, yeah, he is an ass!

  20. wicked

    Yeah, Randall Terror was there in fine form, leading a drowning out of Howard Dean. He was pointed out by Moran of Virginia, offered 5 minutes to make his statement or to leave. He left. Escorted by his followers.

    I’d say old Randy showed everyone the antithesis of civility and respect.

    • lilacluvr

      And yet this buffoon still has his loyal supporters ??

      Jesus had it right when he said ‘Forgive them Father, they know not what they do’.

      • Oh, no. I’m sorry, you’re only allowed to quote Jesus if you agree with the buffoons. They don’t tolerate interpretations that don’t fit their needs.

    • “I’d say old Randy showed everyone the antithesis of civility and respect.”

      That is his method, and sadly, it is more effective than it rightfully should be…

  21. wicked

    Lilac,

    I just walked into the room and saw Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) at the town hall meeting there. I almost puked at her answer to a statement by one of those people Jesus mentioned. 😉

  22. lilacluvr

    Can I borrow a line from Prairie Pond and simply say – Jesus wept?

    Isn’t it amazing (or nauseating) that so-called Christian people are acting the way these town hall thugs are acting?

    None are so vicious as those who are self-righteous.

  23. David B

    Congressman & Dr. Dean did a great job in smashing myths and explaining the plans.