The Carvile Plan…

jamescarville[2]The following is James Carvile’s suggestions on dealing with the GOP when it comes to healthcare reform:

“And strategist James Carvile became the first leading Democrat to suggest publicly that there might be political advantage in letting the Republicans kill healthcare.

“‘Put a bill out there, make them filibuster it, make them be what they are, the party of no,’ Carvile said. ‘Let them kill it. Let them kill it with the interest group money, then run against them. That’s what we ought to do.'”  Read more at this Politico article.

I think that the GOP needs to pay in a big way for this disaster.  What do you bloggers think ?

iggy donnelly

27 Comments

Filed under Healthcare, Republicans, Universal Healthcre

27 responses to “The Carvile Plan…

  1. lilacluvr

    Interesting idea and I’m confident James Carvile is the guy that knows a good plan when he hears it.

    And we all know that these insurance companies are simply going to raise their premiums or cut down on paid claims to recoup all their lobbyists money they have spent to fight healthcare reform.

    When that happens, then will people wake up and realize the Republicans are just winged-monkeys for greed running rampant?

  2. The cost is too high.

    And, no, people who will recognize the Republicans for what they are already do.

    But, as I stated last week, let’s have the debate — an open one that gives every Republican the opportunity to show exactly what they stand for.

    What can be the upside of not wanting to provide affordable health-care insurance to every American?

    We pay higher costs and don’t address maintaining health, but emergency ‘fixes.’ We have no security that a major illness will send us to financial ruin and wouldn’t that put us in line for even greater government help?

    I can’t see the upside of what they’re proposing. And I think the longer we allow them to show their butts, the more people will see it! They’ve already yelled and screamed loudly enough to get more American’s attention as a result of the media concentrating on the most negative of the town-hall meetings.

    And while having the public debate and the Republican Party showing everyone exactly what they are — the Democratic Party remains calm, remains helpful, factual.

    The Republican Party didn’t have enough clout to win last fall. Does this strategy look like it will entice additional voters?

  3. 6176746f6c6c65

    Here is the main issue. A large majority of Americans are satisfied with their health insurance/healthcare. Using this, the GOP through its various methods, have attacked the reform as, among other things, resulting in the folks losing that which they have and with which they indicate they are happy. And, to my mind, this is how the attack should have been made to be successful.

    The great majority of those with employer provided insurance would, should there be a “public option” which, in fact proves less expensive to the employer, see things change, as the employer changes to the public, not private, insurance. While one may argue the merits of the competing proposals which is difficult to do with only proposals, and not concrete statutes, etc., the fact remains that there will be a change from that which is partially known to an unknown. This is why I believe there will not be true “reform” until a single payer system is on the table, whether public or private, as the necessary condition precedent to any reform. In other words, there will be a change in the current relationship regardless of anything else which will occur. Until that fact is “front and center”, there will always be a way to block any overhaul of the system by preying on the fear of the unknown.

    A major factor in all this is, IMHO, the fact that the cost of the coverage borne by the employer is not reflected as gross income to the employee upon which income taxes are paid. Thus, it is easy for the statements about the cost of premiums doubling in a short period to be ignored. There are several of my clients who have terminated their employee health insurance programs due to cost, something that many of the employees do not to this day believe. Had there been a taxing of this to them, the rising costs of which over time would have been known, and perhaps there would be some popular momentum in place for change, rather than the inertia now extant, which is so easily exploitable by those against any form of reform.

  4. wicked

    I have one problem with Carville’s suggestion. If we let the bill(s) die and wait until after the next election, how many people in that time will lose their insurance? How much debt will people incur? How much will current insurance premiums go up for for those who are paying them? How many will die?

    While I don’t want to see a bill rush through that has major problems, I also don’t want this dragged out for years and years. Somebody needs to tell the Republicans and Blue Dog Dems to sit down and shut up! I’ll get Jaxon to do it. He tells everyone to shut up. 🙂

  5. lilacluvr

    6176 – I would like to see health insurance coverage be taken out of the employer-sponsored setting and put out into the private or public setting.

    But, then, who could afford the coverage if the employer was not paying their share? And with people like myself, cancer history, what insurance company is going to be clamoring to get my business?

    But I thought the real reason for health care reform was to bring costs down?

    How is ignoring this problem going to make the costs any lower? My future son-in-law was in the hospital for a week last month and his bill was $76,000. He is 29 yrs old, works an average job and he does have health insurance.

    But what if he did not have insurance and how many people would haved $76,000 to pay their bill. And then take his case times thousands across the country.

    Something has to give because the current health care system is not working and cannot be sustained.

    • 6176746f6c6c65

      Yes, Lilac, I know; but, unless and until those who currently have the coverage with which they are satisfied no longer have it and cannot get it, there will be no great movement for change to the current system.

      I agree the current system is not working; so long as dividends can be paid, though, there will not be the political force needed to change it.

      One of the good things, it was believed, to our system which I believe is now unique in the industrialized world, is that it encouraged development of treatment options, which, IMHO, has turned into a major detriment. Thus, $$ are paid at a higher rate for treatment of a condition rather than for prevention. This makes sense when one observes how our system came about, but not so much sense from a public health perspective. Thus, weight loss surgery is a better deal to all involved as opposed to stricter nutrition standards, exercise, etc., which would likely be more beneficial to a greater number of folks in the long term, but not as “sexy” in the short term. Plus, the surgery still permits the patient to indulge in bad behaviors as before, with the quantities reduced, rather than sacrificing anything believed to be of utility, which will not aid in dealing with Type II diabetes, e.g., later in life, while dietary changes combined with increased exercise might.

      • lilacluvr

        Our society is so used to instant gratification, it seems people think even the quality of their health is in some magic pill or potion to drink.

  6. jammer5

    I like the idea of a not for profit insurance pool, as Obama, and some others, have suggested.

  7. 6176746f6c6c65

    To be blunt; what you describe, Wicked, will need to occur on an extremely large scale before there will be any meaningful attempt to reform the current system again. There will be some minor fiddling at the margins, but wholesale reform/major overhaul won’t be anytime soon. About another 20 years is my guess; only hope for it to be sooner is to decouple health insurance from employment such that the existing rules on “pre-existng conditions”, etc., apply to all, as there would be no group policies such as provided to employers for their employees. This unkind situation would result in many with coverage under group plans being unable to procure coverage at any price (just about) on an individual basis, others being dropped, etc., due to claims. Then and only then will there be the needed political forces in play for real reform. Right now, it just isn’t there.

  8. The main GOP argument that I’ve seen for the status quo is that most people have health insurance and are happy with it. These same people fear what the government will do to healthcare.

    I have health insurance that I wish was cheaper, but I have it better than many people I know. This fact does not, however, prevent me from seeing that too many people do not have access to health care and that all need it.

    I think the GOP underestimate, to their eventual peril, the degree to which there are more people like me than they are counting on.

  9. wicked

    I know it isn’t there, 6176, and I blame the insurance and drug companies. Greed is at the root of this, not lives.

    Jammer, I agree about a pool, but wouldn’t all citizens be the biggest pool possible? As I said before, I’ve seen what can happen when someone with clout doesn’t want a farmers coop to do something. Threats obviously work.

  10. tosmarttobegop

    The entire GOP plan is to do nothing, they already bank on by the time the next couple of elections happen the masses will be mad and tired of the Democratic and just vote the Republicans back in. They can be as bad as they want to be and it will not matter by 2010, 2012 what choice will the masses have?
    They make me fucking sick! Yeah I get into it with Granny! pardon me but you can’t deny you wanted to say it that way too.

  11. tosmarttobegop

    I kind of missed the point I was trying to make. It would not effect the Cons one bit. Delusional people are not effected by reality. They will just make up their own reality.

  12. They seem to be able to tell who is worth greater privileges than others — privileges that belong only to those of good character, who are employed correctly or earn enough income. They also seem really worried that someone will get something they don’t deserve. They know who is deserving!

    Is it their ‘closeness’ to God that allows them to judge people in His place?

  13. lilacluvr

    No, fnord, these people would not know God if he came up to them and kissed them.

    Besides, if God told them the truth, even he would get booed, shouted down and called nasty names.

    I ask each and everyone of these so-called Christian Republicans if Jesus would be on the side of the greedy health insurance companies and they have no response to my question. Rather – they accuse me of Christian bashing.

    Go figure.

  14. lilacluvr

    In today’s mail, I just received an EOB for my latest labwork.

    The total was $385.46, of which $297.22 was written off by my health insurance company.

    What really bothers me is what about the private pay person that gets stuck paying the entire $385.46?

    That is in no way fair and it is a racket for the insurance companies because they dictate their prices they will pay – so does that make the lab inflate their prices in order to make the private pay people pay more?

    And just imagine – take my one lab bill and multiply it millions of times across the country. Is it any wonder our current health care system sucks?

    • wicked

      This uninsured would do her best to pay it. I scraped together the $500+ for two minor ER visits, prescriptions, and the new patient fee to get back to my previous doctor who I hadn’t been to see since 2001. Now I have a choice if my asthma gives me trouble again. I can drive the 20+ miles to see my doctor (which could involve making an appt.) or I can go drive 5 miles to Walgreens’ Take Care Clinic at about the same cost, less gas. Because of the nose-in-the-air attitutude I received from the doctor’s office manager, I’ll choose Walgreens. If anything else happens, my only course is to deal with it the best I can.

      I’m eternally grateful to one drug company. Astra Zeneka is sending my inhalers free of charge. I qualify for their program. BTW, Astra Zeneka is a FRENCH company. Makes one go hmmmm.

      • lilacluvr

        Hey, you want some Freedom Fries to go with that?

        /sarcasm

        When the Bushies came out with that ridiculous knee-jerk reaction, I knew then we were in for a long period of ‘dumbass in charge’.

        I’m sure the rest of the industrialized nations are looking at these Republicans and their thug protesters in pure amazement – or would that be pity?

  15. lilacluvr

    wicked – I know you would (and have) paid the entire bill but that is not fair.

    I’m glad you found a drug company that can help you.

    But, again, in a country as rich and blessed as ours – should that be even necesssary?

    If we can spend billions on the Iraq War blowing their country and people to oblivion, why can we not tend to our own citizens’ health needs?

  16. wicked

    But war is who we are! Or who we’ve become. Health care? Not so much. 😦

    I admit I was on Healthwave a few years ago when I applied for my daughter. Hey, that’s what the two divorce attorneys decided I should do since her dad didn’t have insurance at the time and couldn’t cover her. The Healthwave application automatically marks “self” for the person submitting the application. I had it for 6 months. I don’t recall ever using it for myself and very little for her. I wish I could get her insured under it again, but they won’t take anyone over 19 unless pregnant or if she has a small child, and she doesn’t.

    If I’m going to come clean, I’ll also admit to receiving cash assistance for 6 months. ($84 a month. Do the math.) Things were tough, so I bit the bullet of pride and asked for help. We’ve had food stamps a couple of times, too. I look at it this way–I’m a taxpayer. My money goes into the system. If I need help, my money is a part of that help. But I do wait until desperation strikes. We’re doing fine right now. It’s the health care we can’t afford. It’s either insurance or food and shelter. I choose the latter. 🙂

    • Bad Biker

      There is no need to apologize for receiving assistance in any form, Wicked One. It is what it there for – for the periods of time when you need assistance.

      We all need assistance at one time or another.

      I remember Earl railing against “socialism” while he was receiving SS benefits, Medicare and RX drug assistance through the VA. He was a Limbaugh Republican.

      And he was a hypocritical Christian.

    • Appreciate your honesty, wicked. KSgerm admits that she took help, but hates anyone else who even thought about doing so. I see you as being in a different category than her – I wish that was more of a compliment than it is…

  17. Trip to the Outhouse

    While we can grouse about all the noise makers at the town hall meetings and what the Republicans are saying against any health care plan, I think we have to recognize a certain “wimpishness” on the part of the president on this.

    Last November, the people elected Obama president and backed it up with solid majorities in both the House and Senate. Since fixing health care was a big campaign promise, why didn’t the administration do its homework and develop a solid, specific plan with the backing of the Congress and present this plan to the people? Instead the administration’s plan seems to be very general, which leaves room for dissension among Congressional Democrats and even more room for all these crazies to spout out anything they want because there is so much uncertainty about what the plan might really include.

    The President even had a chance to sell his plan in a prime-time news conference, which was so lackluster that the highlight (or lowlight) was when he needlessly got himself entangled in the cop-professor racial situation, which became a complete distraction for the administration.

    From my point of view, what some of those–both Republicans and Democrats alike–were saying about Obama last fall before the elections may be true: he may not have enough leadership experience. He may get it as time goes by, but the way he and the Democrats in Congress are letting this opportunity slip through their fingers seems to show that they do not have the follow-through to use the vote of confidence that was given to them by the majority of voters last fall. They really don’t need the Republicans to pass a decent health care bill, so why are they letting this all get so bogged down? Or, even worse, are these Democrats worrying about losing their cut of the pharmaceutical and other health corporations’ lobbying money? Whatever the reason, the President’s inability to show strong leadership in order to give Americans a real working health care program has been a big disappointment.

    It reminds me of the young football player who has caught the pass out in open field, then looks over at the cheering crowd in the stands, and is so excited about making a big play, that he drops the ball before he can make it into the end zone.

  18. Trip,

    The only reason I can think of, that you didn’t already mention, for not handling it the way you suggested was the Clinton fiasco. A plan fully formed, and said to be pushed down throats with no opportunity for input.

    I understand we’re 15 years further down the road of broken health-care, have great majorities (as you mentioned) and the whole idea of we elected YOU and a bunch of help — just for this!

    I just can’t think of any other reason. And I’m sorely disappointed.