Sunday, 05/31/09 Public Square


Is everyone enjoying the dog days of summer?



Filed under The Public Square

87 responses to “Sunday, 05/31/09 Public Square

  1. wicked

    Dog days of summer? Not quite yet. Dog days of spring, maybe. 🙂

    The Old Farmer’s Almanac lists the traditional timing of the Dog Days as the 40 days beginning July 3 and ending August 11, coinciding with the ancient heliacal (at sunrise) rising of the Dog Star, Sirius.
    a la wikipedia

  2. Thunderchild

    Every year, I tell myself that I will NOT turn on the AC until the first of June at least. So FAR, I’ve never been able to make good on that. But today is the last day of May and the AC remains off. It got to 87 in here yesterday which was not terrible comfortable, but endurable.

  3. Pedant

    Just got a “breaking news” email from the WE: George Tiller shot to death this morning in church?

  4. I just got online for the first time in about 24 hrs. (out of state company) and saw that horrible news. Some god-fearing idiot who cares nothing about life after birth? Sad, sick, devastating.

  5. wicked

    OMG I just got the breaking news email too. What the phuk??????????

  6. Pedant

    I too find it devastating.

    The anti-choice radicals have long focused on the supply of abortion services as the targets of their actions (ie, doctors and staff of clinics). They’ve also long advocated jailing doctors instead of pregnant women if they ever successfully criminalize abortion services.

    Looks like somebody took a fatal shortcut.

    Sad day for Wichita.

  7. Pedant

    Wow. That poor congregation, I feel so sorry for them. And the kids, wow the kids.

    Just a very bad situation. At church? On Sunday morning???

  8. wicked

    Whoever did this should be tried, convicted, and a Bible shoved down his/her throat, forced to ingest the word of God. And it should all be televised on national TV.

    I wonder where Parkay was this morning…

  9. OMG WTF
    unfreeekin believable.
    This state never ceases to amaze me…..

  10. wicked

    Sad day for Christians, Pendant. They’ll all be painted with the same brush, and not all are rabid or insane.

    Sorry for my kneejerk reaction. I was thinking of how some don’t bother to read nor understand the Bible. I was also thinking of those for whom abortion is the last choice they want but must take for reasons only they know.

  11. Pedant

    There’s a twitter feed at the online WE story that says “It appears crime scene is inside the church.”

    And the news story says those congregants who were already inside the church are being kept there, while those entering were ushered to a parking lot.

    Seems to me that the only reason you’d treat these people differently this way would be if Dr Tiller were indeed shot inside the church.

    So this is just getting sadder and sadder.

  12. Thunderchild

    Over on weblog, the cons are in full phony condolence mode.

    Ped breaks the story at 11:18. That’s less than an hour ago.

    The cons are already trying to change the subject.

    Last NIGHT, I drove by the Spirit One church which had it’s regular rant against Dr. Tiller.

  13. Pedant

    WE says police are looking for Kansas tag 225-BAB, and it appears Dr Tiller’s corpse is still inside the church.

  14. Police looking for a 90’s era light blue Ford Taurus with Kansas tags. Registered in Merriam, Ks.

    225-BAB is the tag on the vehicle police are looking for. Kansas tags

    Victim was pronounced dead at the scene in a lobby area of the church.

    Police say a handgun was used in the crime.

    Several witnesses have been taken downtown for questioning

    Video of police statement coming soon on

  15. Pedant

    Police looking for a 90’s era light blue Ford Taurus with Kansas tags. Registered in Merriam, Ks.

  16. Thunderchild

    Channel 3 just had coverage.

  17. wicked

    The police should have a name to go with that tag number. Let’s hope the murderer isn’t being sheltered by others or takes the easy way out.

    I’ve decided to blame this on the Bush administration and Republicans in general. The state of the economy and this country lies solely at their feet. The Right (especially the Religious Right) have decided that only THEY are the righteous and must take action. Obviously “no” isn’t working for them. Rush and his ilk are stirring up the people, and they don’t take into account that some of those people are totally unstable and take everything said by the “mouths” as gospel.

    I also expect more violence against anything the Fundies find objectionable. And that, my friends, is a very scary thought.

    Yes, I’m upset. 😦

  18. Fox News has it too. But not as much as is available on the twitter updates at

  19. I’m extremely upset too! I’ve said for awhile that the greatest danger to Americans is from Americans — mostly the crazies who make up the well-armed angry, verging on insane but definitely obsessed part of society. The ones who believe rush’s garbage!

  20. wicked

    Fnord, I have Twitter, never used, but don’t know how to add or anything else to it. Can someone guide me?

  21. Pedant

    Just go to

    And you’ll see the Twitter Update section.

  22. I know almost nothing about twitter. I found the twitter update at and just keep refreshing for the next update. Wish I could help, but me an technology aren’t compatible — my brain is old. 😦

    • frigginloon

      Morning Fnord. Glad to see you are on Twitter, but wish it was under better circumstances 😦

  23. wicked

    Free speech has its boundaries. Can’t shout FIRE in a crowded theater. But Rush and the rest can rile the masses. Just how right is that? Most of these borderline nutcases need their leaders to tell them what to do, and those leaders are doing it. This MUST STOP.

  24. wicked

    Thanks, fnord, I’ll give that a try. Might as well. It’s quiet here for a while.

  25. sorry, Pendant! You give the info and I don’t look before I jump in and repeat what you’ve already given. Sorry! I’ll calm down. Nothing I can do anyway, and fretting isn’t helping me or anyone else.

    • Pedant

      It’s ok, I did the same to you upthread.

      It’s crazy, when we really care about a story we all kinda turn into little data monsters (more data! now!).

      I have to admit my stomach is a little feh over this story.

  26. wicked

    Thanks, Pendant. I got my Twitter going. One person keeps repeating the same thing, and it doesn’t make sense. Another lunatic?

  27. wicked

    Found this comment on the Opinion Line:

    “O’Reily and Hannity due to land at Mid Cont. Airport at 3:37 local time.”

    Bad timing?

  28. Pedant

    The tag is traced back to a residence in Marion, KS, according to

    And they don’t even have their own video up, dadgum it.

  29. 6176746f6c6c65

    The vehicle has a KSU vanity tag on the front.

  30. 6176746f6c6c65

    As one might imagine, it has been a very interesting morning here. I have decided it best to keep my head down and mouth shut for now, given the large numbers of viewers of Fox Noise here and the less than convincing expressions of horror by some. One aide and I have similar feelings on the overall underlying issue, and we’re hanging together in my room so neither says anything we might come to regret.

    • Yes, lay low, 6176! You’re at a religious institution after all.

      I know everyone here is aware this ‘perp’ is not rational or sane, and is solely responsible for the act of murder, while also recognizing the serious affect of those who incite someone who isn’t sane. I think the term used today is “group polarization.”

      I read something of a study done a few years ago where they had people write down their views on social issues (gay marriage, climate change, abortion — all the hot button issues). They split these people into groups of like-minded and after only 15 minutes most became more dogmatic in their views. It’s the methods used by terrorists! The study authors said the surest way to build an extremist group or cult was to separate its members from society and cultivate a sense of suspicion which could lead to hate about people who weren’t members of ‘the group.’

      Those like rush limbaugh make their living off grop polarization!

  31. wicked

    Smart move, 6176. 😉

  32. wicked

    Perfect example of a hate crime.

  33. jammer5

    This could happen in any state. Murder is a far cry from the Christian ethic, but the far right wing of the Republican party would never let that get in their way. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some of the radio pundits brand the murderer a hero.

  34. If people can use the words and accusations they have used against Sonia Sotomayer, they can call this perp a hero. Sad commentary on our society. Makes me sick to my stomach.

  35. David B

    8 PM Vigil in Old Town Square for the late Dr Tiller.

    I expect some ass-kicking will break out.

  36. wicked

    I’m going to try to be there. Will also try to bring my daughters…all pro-choice and CHOSE to give birth.

  37. wicked

    He’s been caught.

    Must not have had a plan to have been apprehended so easily.

  38. Zippy

    In a church. In a freakin’ church.

    That’s some class.

    I haven’t even checked out of the rantings over at the other place, but I bet someone will try to turn into an argument for packing heat at all times. Ecch.

  39. jammer5

    Just came across they caught him near Kansas City.

  40. wicked

    Zippy, they’re doing their best not to let it be known they’re doing the happy dance.

    Okay, that was rude. Do I care? Nah…

  41. Bad Biker

    This is my post on the nameless blog. Honestly, I am sick over this – this uncontrolled and seemingly uncontrollable atmosphere of violence. I just can’t imagine how we, as a nation, have sunk so low.

    “This is a sad day in many regards. A man performing legal medical procedures is gunned down at church. Another man is going to lose his freedom. A wife has lost her husband, children have lost their father and grandchildren have lost their grandpa. Hundreds of church-goers were senselessly terrorized.

    All of this because we cannot have a civil debate on the issue of abortion.

    The divisiveness that marks what passes for debate in this country has to stop. The demonizing of those that disagree with you serves no purpose.

    Perhaps all should take a moment and step back and examine their own heart and decide – “am I going to be part of the problem or part of the solution?”

    Enough is enough – it is time we begin acting as Americans, united.”

  42. Well said, Will. It’s way past time.

    Be careful. Don’t let the haters follow you home and always stay for short periods to avoid the attitudes that damage souls. 😉

  43. Bad Biker

    Of course, as soon as I posted that, I got a couple snarky posts from NP.


  44. David B

    My friend in Holland just heard about the murder in Arhem on Netherlands Radio.

  45. wicked

    So the world gets to see just how barbaric the fundamentalists can be here in the U.S..

    I thought Jesus was sent to show the people the way to His Father. Yet so many followers who claim Christ as their Savior cling to the Old Ways of the God of Retribution and Damnation.

    If the Christians of the time had been smart, they would have begun the New Testament with “With the coming of the Son, the Old Ways were forgotten, and a new and forgiving God was born.”

    And still I don’t think some would understand. 😦

    One of my Christian friends (yes, I have some!) explained to me that the N.T. changed everything, evidenced by “an eye for an eye” becoming “turn the other cheek”. Jesus made the difference, she told me. Somebody missed the message, me thinks.

  46. Zippy

    David, I didn’t want to feed the flames over there, but you are correct: Randall Terry showed by that statement that he thoroughly approves.


    Granted, Terry represents the extreme fringe, but that’s kinda the point.

  47. wicked

    Tiller always wore a bullet-proof vest. Only one shot was fired. I think it’s pretty easy to figure out where the shot was aimed.

  48. wicked

    Zippy, I’ll let karma take care of Terry.

  49. Thunderchild

    If you are suggesting a head shot wicked, that WOULD seem to jibe with how quickly Dr. Tiller apparently died.

    I find myself thinking of the blogger formerly known as Franklin.

  50. Thunderchild

    The news conference suggests there will be two charges of aggravated assault. This suggests that the only person the assailant really wanted to kill was Dr. Tiller. He also didn’t kill himself. And he headed for KC.

    I BET you he had a flight reservation. Most likely out of country.

  51. Bad Biker

    “Tiller always wore a bullet-proof vest”

    Regardless of your religious affiliation or inclination, why on God’s green Earth would/should a man need to wear a bullet-proof vest in a House of Worship?

    This is how low we have sunk. This is how debate is these days.

    If your solution to a “problem” is to kill someone in cold blood, then the “problem” is you.


  52. Thunderchild

    This just posted over at WE Blog.

    I’m not familiar with all the new nics here. So I don’t know if sata blogs here.

    Posted May 31, 2009 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    There will be a candlelight vigil for Dr. Tiller this evening, details are below. As information regarding the service for Dr. Tiller becomes available, we be sure to let you know.

    Sunday, May 31, 2009
    8:00pm – 11:00pm
    Old Town Plaza, in front of the Old Town Warren
    Wichita, KS

    Please gather at Old Town Square at 8pm to remember Dr. George Tiller and show support to his friends and family. Although it may not yet be completely dark at 8pm, please bring a candle.

    Signs are optional – if you want to bring one, then go for it. But we will not be shouting or chanting or marching tonight. We’ll be respectfully gathering in Dr. Tiller’s memory.

    ALSO: If you do bring a sign, be sure to steer clear of ANYTHING that has to do with pro life/choice. This event has no political agenda. Please keep your opinions on abortion at bay for the night.

    The event details list this event as lasting until 11pm, but it most likely will not. Please show up as closely to 8pm as you can, and we’ll see what happens from there.

    The Wichita Police Department have been notified of our gathering, so they’ll have an eye on us (to keep us safe), just in case there are any crazies out there who don’t approve of our event. Please, please feel free to bring family, children, friends… anyone, really.

    It has also just been brought to my attention that the parking garage next to the Warren may be closed tonight due to construction. Please keep this in mind when you are parking!!! Try to carpool as much as possible.

  53. Bad Biker

    Thank you for the info, TC, it’s good to know – I’ll try to make it…………..

  54. wicked

    My oldest is coming with me and bringing her daughter, so I do hope everything remains peaceful. If I have anything to do with it, it will. 🙂

    My next to youngest is also coming, I think. Not sure about youngest. Next to oldest is iffy.

    I’m heading out to get candles in just a few. If anyone needs an extra, speak up now!

  55. Thunderchild

    Probably there will be folks there in need of a candle.

    This breaks as top news on NBC right now.

    I am not sure if I will be at the vigil. I will look for you and anyone else I know if I am there.

  56. prairiepond

    I hope Sotomayor has good protection.

    I wonder where ks meadowlrk is?

    I wonder where Paulie is?

    The cons are still in denial about Matthew Shepard. Did anyone think they wouldnt be equally in denial about this?

    When do the RICO laws kick in?

    Truly, Kansas is as bigoted as you think.

    Jesus wept.

  57. prairiepond

    I think we are waaaaaay past the time when we should have been worried about the dead canaries in the coal mine we call America. The mine floor is LITTERED with avian bodies.

    Five years ago, I escorted a member of Kansas Equality Coalition to her grandmothers funeral in Ness City because the phelps klan threatened to be there. And I knew no one for hundreds of miles around us would lift a finger to help if there was trouble.

    You dont want to know what was under the seat of my truck as I sat a few yards from the gravesite. It wasnt long after that I took a different route home every night. I and my job were both being targeted by local wingnuts.


    Given today’s events, I think not.

  58. I’ve sooooo missed you, Pond!

    Yes, and I acknowledge without understanding (since I haven’t walked that mile) that hate directed to people who someone decides is deserving (in the name of their god) is something you’ve lived.

    Makes me cry too!

  59. wicked

    It’s a nasty world out there, PP.

  60. prairiepond

    I miss you all too. I’ve just been so busy and overwhelmed that I cant get here.

    But when I heard the news (“I heard the news today, oh boy”) I had to come here.

    I needed you all.

    Dont think for one minute they wouldnt gun down an uppity queer too. They only need the right opportunity.

  61. David B,0,7068875.story

    “Warren Hern, a Colorado physician and close friend of Tiller’s who said he is now “the only doctor in the world” who performs very late-term abortions, said Tiller’s death was predictable.

    “I think it’s the inevitable consequence of more than 35 years of constant anti-abortion terrorism, harassment and violence. George is the fifth American doctor to be assassinated. I get messages from these people saying, ‘Don’t bother wearing a bulletproof vest, we’re going for a head shot.’ “

  62. Pond, somebody, anybody….
    we need to get a post out there on this subject!
    We are sposa-bee kansas progressives.
    One of us who has some passion in this subject.
    Maybe throw some aprropriate tags on it?
    I dunno….

    • jammer5

      I think tomorrow, when things settle down some. Too much sense overload to do one today. Better to let our progressive thinking prevail.

      I remember when 9/11 and my thinking we should nuke that bastards back to the stone age. A cooler head thought otherwise: Get the terrorists that ordered it. Somewhere along the line, our leaders lost sight of that.

      This requires cooler heads as well.

  63. Bad Biker

    “Dont think for one minute they wouldnt gun down an uppity queer too”

    No. Not for a minute. I won’t stand for that. If you ever need protection, Ms. Grrl, I carry and I shoot well. I am not an advocate of violence in any manner, but I will be god damned if I would allow a friend to be hurt by bigoted idiots that claim “God” as their vindication.

    There are many bigots and homophobes in this world – but there are just as many, if not more, like me that stand ready to protect if needed.

    We are just not as vocal – maybe we should be.

    Fuck all of this – I WANT to have a civil debate with reasonable folks – not a pissing contest with those that demand that we follow THEIR God.


  64. MY JESUS weeps over this.

  65. Bad Biker

    I should say that I am legal to carry – but I never do – but I would if needed to protect a friend like Ms. Grrl and, of course, my children or grandchildren.

    I only got a permit to mess with the gun nutz.

    But I will use my S & W .357 2 1/2 barrel revolver if needed.

  66. prairiepond

    Clark, sweetie, thank you. And you know I’d do the same for you.

    “Fuck all of this – I WANT to have a civil debate with reasonable folks.”

    We are just way past that time. It’s too late. This is only going to end in more violence.

    It’s only a matter of time.

  67. prairiepond

    SEKB, I started a post about this, but I didnt want to usurp this open thread.

    The title I was using was “It’s a scary day in the neighborhood”.

    If you are not white, christian, male, straight and anti choice, it’s open season.

    Today was opening day. Well, not really.

    Seems there is no limit and the season is 365 days.

  68. prairiepond

    Heh SEKB. I’m thinkin’ YOUR Jesus doesnt hate queers, or women, or anyone else for that matter.

    I wish your Jesus would get off his ass and beat up THEIR Jesus.

    JK. 🙂

  69. I tried too. I must be calmer than I am now. It’s a hate crime, not just a crime that attacks women’s reproductive rights. Fighting hate with hate is only lowering yourself. I will try hard for tomorrow, but it needs to be reasonable. An unreasonable response to an unreasonable act only adds to the fire. I refuse to allow myself to be brought down to the level of the haters. So, give me some time.

  70. I want a group hug. Damn I hate hate. 😦

  71. Bad Biker

    This is all very frustrating – I abhor violence, but I am just sick of the violence perpetrated by the RR. Personally, I feel Holick (sp) from Spirit One had a hand in this, but that is just my personal thought.

    But where does this end? If someone you know votes for the “wrong” councilman, do you cap them? How about dogcatcher? Maybe a sheriff?

    I wear seven earrings and have nine tattoos – are you gonna shoot me because I look different from you? Think different than you?

    Christ, what is this world coming to?

  72. My biggest hope is that the many who are behind this are uncovered. Phillll Kline?

    Yes, the Republican Party is reduced to extremists who aren’t rational or sane or intelligent. They have many who incite them to violence. The right wing media — O’Reilly, Hannity, Rush, Coulter… are training grounds for insane religious extremists.

    This is bad. This is really bad.

    Hey, who will go with me to PrairiePonds? Soon? I’ll wear work clothes and plan to not add to her burdens but subtract. Anyone with me? This is selfish — it’s for me — because if you are able to give anything you always get back twofold. And right now I need to feel the love. I need to work hard and help someone. PrairiePond could use some real help. She’ll probably pooh pooh this idea, but I won’t pay much attention. I’m kinda stubborn.

  73. Bad Biker

    “Hey, who will go with me to PrairiePonds? Soon?”

    Come by and pick me up – Hell, I’ll go as long as I can take Rufus. Just tell me what tools I need to bring.

    Damn, I’ll go!

  74. I think Rufus would love it! There’s a fence around the house just on the off chance he doesn’t understand the chickens aren’t fair game! 😉 I will contact her and be firm. She isn’t gonna like this, but she’ll love it at the same time.

  75. Bad Biker

    Am am serious about going with you – you have my e-mail addy – I can do most any kind of work – just let me know what tools I need to bring.

    Rufus is up for it too. I asked and he said “wag tail” he was gonna go.

    E-mail me, hon, I am already packed.

  76. David B

    500 or so folks at the Old Town vigil

  77. wicked

    David, RU counting Phred and the phamily?

    Damn, why do I never have a camera when I need one?

  78. David B

    The freak show was only 15 clowns…

  79. Zippy

    Folks, with one senseless act, they turned their favorite villian into a martyr. And tthey know it, there’s talk among them about “burning of the Reichstag” (idiots!).

    Typos brought to you (this time) by frustration with a WordPress timeout.

  80. Zippy

    P.S. Any of you who drive out to Prairiepond’s will have my deep appreciation. Even if I wasn’t 2 days away, I’m kinda preoccupied these days.

  81. wicked

    Okay everybody, here’s the deal.

    The murderer’s ex-wife stated that he lives in Westport, KC. Westport is on the Missouri side, if it’s the Westport I know. He crossed state lines to commit murder. If he bought the gun in MO, does that also mean he’s in even bigger trouble?

    I don’t want to see him fry. I want to know that he and Bubba are getting along reeaaaally well.

    David, sorry I missed seeing you there…if you were there. I couldn’t hear a damn thing. We were standing right on the edge of the fountains. ::sigh:: The guy with the Jesus Saves sign looked familiar. Who was he? Oh, and those two ladies who kept putting their signs up in front of his deserve medals of honor.