It is becoming increasingly clear that we did not torture detainees to protect America, but rather to provide political justification for invading Iraq.
iggy donnelly
Torture In Order to Invade Iraq, or Were There Other Reasons?
Filed under Cheney, Crimes, Enhanced Interrogations, hate groups, Republicans, torture, Uncategorized
PrairiePopulistsAndProgressives.net 
Other than to justify ther Iraq War, maybe Cheney just likes to see people suffer? He never seemed to be warm, friendly and the type of person anyone would want to be around – especially when he is hunting.
Is this human, and I use the word advisedly, capable of smiling, or is the jutting of what’s left of his lower teeth the norm?
He is dangerously mentally ill.
I’m unable to comprehend those who support torture, those who continue to make excuses and justify what America did. I’m ashamed. Americans used to be better than that, but then Americans didn’t used to start unjust wars either.
Where are the headlines in every newspaper, at every internet site about the Sunni insurgents offer in the summer of 2004 to help move toward peace in Iraq? It’s a fact that when Iraq’s Sunni tribes, in return for money and other considerations, began cutting deals with American forces and turned away from their nationalist insurgency in late 2006 casualty rates for combatants and civilians quickly plummeted. This could have started 30 months earlier!
Where is the outrage? How many gave their lives during those 30 months while bushco dithered?
Heads in the Sand
Maybe the reason is because of money? There were people getting very wealthy off the Iraq War – why would they want to stop it 30 months earlier?
Let’s face it, to me profiting off war is blood money but if that fact does not bother some people, then why would they care about torture?
The reason that the Iraq/Torture story is important is that it just may be enough to get people interested in prosecuting the former administration officials.
‘Bout time.
Here’s the texts of speeches given today by both President Obama and former Vice President Cheney, on national security issues.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/21/raw-data-text-dick-cheneys-national-security-speech-aei/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.text.html?_r=1&ref=politics
I use this example to explain the mindset of those I have encounter that support or over look the issue of the torture. “If a parent walked up to the person who killed their child and empty a gun into them would you find fault with them?”. That is the way they are looking at the Bush Administration and how they handled the fighting against the enemy. They do not focus on what was done but the intent of those committing the acts.
Another way to explain their view would be, if someone upon seeing that your child was about to be killed by someone. Shot and killed the person to save your child’s life, who you find fault and help the Police to find them and persecute them? They are dealing with this on a human emotion level rather then a legal level.
Could you find a fault with those who support or dismiss the torture because of that way of seeing it?
Now to Cheney, yes Fnord hit the nail on the head with Cheney is suffering from a mental illness.
Paranoid, delusional and frightened. Human nature often looks for the simple answer to complex questions.
I have never gotten into a face to face debate with a Conservative over the reasons as they do not dispute the reasoning. It is always a Democrat that I get into such a debate, the simple answers, Profit, Oil, personal grudge.
All are some aspect of the reasoning but not the answer that is to why they did it in the beginning.
Nor is the reasoning for Cheney to have wanted torture to be used on the Iraqis.
Cheney, I used an example in the post above of a parent shooting and killing someone that killed their child.
Now I add this dilemma, the parent just “thinks” that is the person that killed their child?
Is their action understandable and is there fault in it?
Cheney was firmly convinced that Saddam had to be involved in 9-11 as he seen Saddam as the root of all evil. So it is not a matter of trying find convincing evidence for others of the link to justify something he saw as needed done. He already felt justified in it, he just knew there was a link!
All it would take is finding that link and as he already felt justified the torture was not out of order.
But didn’t Saddam basically have the Middle East at a standstill because no one in the surrounding countries like him and he wouldn’t play ball with them.
Maybe the Saudis wanted the US, through George W. Bush, to get rid of Saddam and then they could muscle into the spoils of war and get what they wanted politically while Bush and Cheney got all the oil they wanted?
I often wondered why the majority of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. Yet, Bush and Cheney never faulted the Saudis for 9/11??
There are alot of unanswered questions about the run-up to the Iraq War. Do you think we will ever know the truth – or could we handle the truth?
As far as Cheney goes – delusional people think they are above the law.
As for Rumsfeld with his Scripture justifying his war plans, Godly delusional people are worse than just being delusional.
What is sad and pathetic about all this is the fact that now Al Queda and the real Muslim terrorists can point to us and say – see, we were right – they are fighting a holy war.
I sent a link to my son about the holy defense updates and warned him to be more careful. It really does make it hard to dispute the thought is was about a holy war when the heading of every defense update is about a holy war!
I wonder if the mouthing off that Cheney is doing lately isn’t an attempt to deflect attention away from himself to Obama, as a means to prevent any investigation as to what he was up to last 8 years. Surely someone will look into that subject!
g-stir – Cheney has already said he has told Congress numerous times he wants to testify about the torture issue but when pinned down, Cheney refuses to testify under oath.
I think Cheney wants investigations but only on his terms and he thinks his 22% of the GOP supporters will make such a stink that all the problems that Obama SHOULD be working on will be tied up and nothing will get done.
I think that is why Cheney says he wants to testify before Congress but yet is not willing to testify under oath.
I say, let an independent investigation be done – not by the politicians. Putting it in the political arena will only inflame the remaining GOPers into even more rabid group of people that want history rewritten.
Actually, Lilac, those folks are afraid that “history will be rewritten” They prefer the current version as being promoted by the former VP.
Now that I re-read my comment, you’re right. Thanks for your input.
BTW – how you doing?
Doing OK. Not progressing as fast as I want, but “fast” according to the pros. Had it easy today; only 3 hrs. of various “T” types, although 2.5 hrs were “back to back to back” sessions. Made up for the 4 hrs yesterday (fell asleep about 1830 last night, was awakened 2 times for meds then back to sleep), getting up at 0600 today. Big development; am able to “make a muscle” w/right arm voluntarily since Tuesday; before, couldn’t bend elbow when I told it to bend. Now working on ability to straighten arm…
Keep up the good work. We never progress as fast we want but it sounds like you’ve come a long way.
Well, I am about to go WAAAAYYYY out on a limb here and possibly alienate some of my progressive friends, but I respectfully disagree with the premise that we should investigate the George WMD Cheney administration for violations of international law.
We are better than that, in my humble opinion.
Ex-presidents, in the USA, are traditionally afforded a measure of respect, even if their tenure in office did not warrant that respect. Further, a sitting administration investigating the previous admin sets a dangerous precedence. We have warned the Republicans that their overreaching for power could backfire on them – the same goes for us.
George W. Bush and the Dick of Cheney are best left to the scrapheap of history. Let’s move forward.
We have our president…………………… forget about the last one.
I admire you for this stance. I agree it is the way it must be handled. I want to know WHY it always has to be the Democratic Party who does the right thing? We all knew it wasn’t right to bring bush the lesser up on impeachment charges since the votes weren’t there in the Senate and it would waste time and resources. Of course, the Republican Party had the same knowledge about President Clinton and went ahead anyway. So once again the Democratic Party will do the right thing for our country. Do you think the Republicans would if the shoes were on the other foot? Hell no!
I abhor what bushco did, have NO RESPECT for the man or his complicit administration but they are FORMER and history will deal with them. I just want the light shined on enough to ensure history deals accurately!
Just a point of clarification – first and foremost, I am an American. I love this country. I believe in America. I believe that we are the greatest country ever and I believe that our best days are ahead of us.
As an American, I respect the office of the presidency – regardless of whether I agree with the man warming the seat in the Oval Office.
As a progressive Democrat, I hated GWB and Cheney as much as anyone – I despise what they did to my beloved country.
At the same time, I could not countenance having my former president and vice-president frog-marched into an international court.
Call me a hypocrite or jingoistic or just stupid (I answer to all of the above) but that scenario is just not acceptable to me.
I do not defend the previous president’s actions in any way – but I do defend the office of the presidency.
I agree a formal investigation into the Bush administration would set a dangerous precedent for future office holders. It would set up a constant “gotcha” mentality accomplishing nothing. I do think someone should quietly see what Cheney was up to- he’s capable of anything!
“I do think someone should quietly see what Cheney was up to- he’s capable of anything!”
Personally, I hope Cheney gets a terminal cold sore on his lower lip and Bush has his Dick of Cheney get infected and fall off.
But that’s just me.
(BTW: why does Cheney look like he is about to BITE someone in every photo?)
Why did you think you do not see anyone very close?
6176,
As always, it is so good to read you and to hear of your improvements. I’m going with the assessment of the “pros.” They are trained to see how the progress is advancing, have seen others and have a comparison. Even you know how much your hard work is paying off!
This is an interesting read with regard to Gitmo.
“ANALYSIS-Guantanamo guilty go free while ‘cleared’ stay
Most of the prisoners convicted of terrorism crimes in the Guantanamo tribunals are free men today while most of the Guantanamo captives cleared for release in the regular U.S. courts are still imprisoned at Guantanamo.
The patchwork system for determining the fate of Guantanamo prisoners is, as President Barack Obama said in a speech on Thursday, “quite simply a mess.”
Continue at:
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN5L515176
Biker I keep saying the “A few good men” motto applies to this, it is an element in the conclusion.
The international court does not need our approval for placing charges or our blessing.
That said the only saving grace if it is the U.S. that handled the issue is that would show our side in the issue. National guilt would go with a decision of war crimes by the international court.
I do not like either way of it happening and agree the thought is unthinkable about a U.S. President by me.
I have said before it took me a year to finally convince myself of the happenings and the truth.
Unfortunately we can not simply wish it away, ignoring it will in the end mean a nationwide duplicity.
It really is like a parent who discovers their child is a murder, it would be understandable why they would not have any desire to turn their child in.
OK, here is the Loons take on Guantanamo. The prisoners who are still there and who are still being tortured are so far out of the terrorist loop now, whatever they say is irrelevant and of no importance to anyone. OK, sure once a terrorist always a terrorist but they are of no use to the Taliban or Al Qaeda anymore. They are too friggin old for starters, have no medical cover, no job skills and have an unexplainable twitch when they hear the sound of running water. OMG they’ve been friggin Westernized.
I’m positive the 24 percenters will say this fact check is the work of the “liberal media,” but I found it well done and accurate.
“Cheney’s speech ignored some inconvenient truths”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/68643.html